Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine

[patentlymn]

ALSO
I am sure there are restrictions on Russian war reporters also. However, there are several reporters all over the Russian/DPR/LPR areas who report what they want. Patrick Lancaster (US ex pat), Graham Phillips (UK), Eva Bartlett (Canada), Telesur, Al Jazzera, France 24, some French woman, and others.


https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday/872
[Forwarded from Intel Slava Z]
🇺🇦 Against the background of the “counterattack” in the Kherson direction, which takes place mainly in Telegram, censorship has been increased for Ukrainian journalists. All war correspondents were recalled from the front, in addition, they were given "recommendations", which are in the nature of requirements.

These are the directives:

??Journalists are forbidden to evaluate the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

??Only the military leadership reports on the course of hostilities, that is, you cannot rely on information from ordinary military personnel or field commanders

??It is forbidden to interpret the military situation in an alternative way from the official one

??Your own predictions are prohibited

??Only officials of the Armed Forces of Ukraine report on all military actions, their consequences and results

Such an approach should hide the failed results of the “counterattack” and prevent the demoralization of both the military personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and ordinary Ukrainians.

[Libertas]

Some random thoughts. My impression was that the DPR and LPR did most of the fighting but I thought that view was skewed and wrong. Now I think maybe they did most of the fighting at least early on and the Russians supported them. There was some LPR militia who went public and said they liberated LPR and would go no further. Maybe they were pissed and were saying they did most of the fighting and dying and would not fight past their borders?


This guy has a different take on the military actions near Kharkov.
In short.
The Russians had previously withdrawn most forces.
The Russians had previously removed the civilians who wanted to leave.
Those remaining were anti Russian so they were mostly not left to be screwed over by the Ukr forces.
The Russians withdrew fast so there was little fighting.
There had been no front there. I do not understand what he means exactly.

The Ukr forces were now out in the open and subject to attack.
Russians have been attacking Ukr forces. Maybe this was a trap to kill Ukr troops?
The Russian objective is to kill Ukr troops and they are. "Demilitarization" is their stated goal.
Also retaking the Donbass.
They may or may not hold the land there.
He said the number killed was even worse than in Kherson!!!!

https://youtu.be/v7pW_KqX8QA?t=1181

Betrayal
45,346 views Sep 11, 2022 White noise of propaganda. 9/11.

Yeah, what I've been saying.  Maskirovka!

[Libertas]

ALSO
I am sure there are restrictions on Russian war reporters also. However, there are several reporters all over the Russian/DPR/LPR areas who report what they want. Patrick Lancaster (US ex pat), Graham Phillips (UK), Eva Bartlett (Canada), Telesur, Al Jazzera, France 24, some French woman, and others.


https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday/872
[Forwarded from Intel Slava Z]
🇺🇦 Against the background of the “counterattack” in the Kherson direction, which takes place mainly in Telegram, censorship has been increased for Ukrainian journalists. All war correspondents were recalled from the front, in addition, they were given "recommendations", which are in the nature of requirements.

These are the directives:

??Journalists are forbidden to evaluate the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

??Only the military leadership reports on the course of hostilities, that is, you cannot rely on information from ordinary military personnel or field commanders

??It is forbidden to interpret the military situation in an alternative way from the official one

??Your own predictions are prohibited

??Only officials of the Armed Forces of Ukraine report on all military actions, their consequences and results

Such an approach should hide the failed results of the “counterattack” and prevent the demoralization of both the military personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and ordinary Ukrainians.

I only trust a reporter in a situation if their host is royally pissed off at them and forcibly removed from the theater and/or killed...otherwise I assume they are doing some level of propaganda or misinformation to whatever extent I deem likely...

[patentlymn]

There are some independent reporters wandering around in Russia or DPR or LPR controlled Ukraine. They never reported any interference.
Graham Phillips from UK was put on a UK sanctions list for "providing a platform" to the ethnic Russians who said anti Kiev things. Some German woman had criminal charges filed against her back in Germany for such reporting.  Telesur and Al Jazeera seemed pretty independent.  I think some of what the French reporters reported did not make it on TV. Eva Bartlett is very independent. She has wandered around Gaza and Syria also. Patrick Lancaster from US  has been reporting from Ukr since 2008.




Meanwhile, in Moldova. According to this report, Moldova had a nice gas contract with Russia. The president jumped in bed with the EU and went big on anti Russia sanctions. I have no idea where they get gas from now or at what price but it is higher. Lots of people want her gone with new elections.
I know nothing about this other than what I just saw. These leaders love to screw over their citizens to please their buddies at the EU.

https://youtu.be/iJjldrVsRFY
 
Moldova Government is all set to fall

[Pandora]

There are some independent reporters wandering around in Russia or DPR or LPR controlled Ukraine. They never reported any interference.
Graham Phillips from UK was put on a UK sanctions list for "providing a platform" to the ethnic Russians who said anti Kiev things. Some German woman had criminal charges filed against her back in Germany for such reporting.  Telesur and Al Jazeera seemed pretty independent.  I think some of what the French reporters reported did not make it on TV. Eva Bartlett is very independent. She has wandered around Gaza and Syria also. Patrick Lancaster from US  has been reporting from Ukr since 2008.




Meanwhile, in Moldova. According to this report, Moldova had a nice gas contract with Russia. The president jumped in bed with the EU and went big on anti Russia sanctions. I have no idea where they get gas from now or at what price but it is higher. Lots of people want her gone with new elections.
I know nothing about this other than what I just saw. These leaders love to screw over their citizens to please their buddies at the EU.

https://youtu.be/iJjldrVsRFY
 
Moldova Government is all set to fall

That's the #1 problem:  it's a HER.  Everywhere there's a HER in a position of power, there's a disaster.

[patentlymn]

There are some independent reporters wandering around in Russia or DPR or LPR controlled Ukraine. They never reported any interference.
Graham Phillips from UK was put on a UK sanctions list for "providing a platform" to the ethnic Russians who said anti Kiev things. Some German woman had criminal charges filed against her back in Germany for such reporting.  Telesur and Al Jazeera seemed pretty independent.  I think some of what the French reporters reported did not make it on TV. Eva Bartlett is very independent. She has wandered around Gaza and Syria also. Patrick Lancaster from US  has been reporting from Ukr since 2008.




Meanwhile, in Moldova. According to this report, Moldova had a nice gas contract with Russia. The president jumped in bed with the EU and went big on anti Russia sanctions. I have no idea where they get gas from now or at what price but it is higher. Lots of people want her gone with new elections.
I know nothing about this other than what I just saw. These leaders love to screw over their citizens to please their buddies at the EU.

https://youtu.be/iJjldrVsRFY
 
Moldova Government is all set to fall

That's the #1 problem:  it's a HER.  Everywhere there's a HER in a position of power, there's a disaster.

I am biased against wars now given how many I fell for before. I remember some US debates. The male warmongers were bad  but the women were worse. They wanted to show they were tougher than the men.
Lizz Truss in  UK recently said something about being willing to push the nuclear button if called for.

[Libertas]

There are some independent reporters wandering around in Russia or DPR or LPR controlled Ukraine. They never reported any interference.
Graham Phillips from UK was put on a UK sanctions list for "providing a platform" to the ethnic Russians who said anti Kiev things. Some German woman had criminal charges filed against her back in Germany for such reporting.  Telesur and Al Jazeera seemed pretty independent.  I think some of what the French reporters reported did not make it on TV. Eva Bartlett is very independent. She has wandered around Gaza and Syria also. Patrick Lancaster from US  has been reporting from Ukr since 2008.




Meanwhile, in Moldova. According to this report, Moldova had a nice gas contract with Russia. The president jumped in bed with the EU and went big on anti Russia sanctions. I have no idea where they get gas from now or at what price but it is higher. Lots of people want her gone with new elections.
I know nothing about this other than what I just saw. These leaders love to screw over their citizens to please their buddies at the EU.

https://youtu.be/iJjldrVsRFY
 
Moldova Government is all set to fall

That's the #1 problem:  it's a HER.  Everywhere there's a HER in a position of power, there's a disaster.

I am biased against wars now given how many I fell for before. I remember some US debates. The male warmongers were bad  but the women were worse. They wanted to show they were tougher than the men.
Lizz Truss in  UK recently said something about being willing to push the nuclear button if called for.

So does Medvedev, all bigshots agree.

ETA - RT on-board too...

Margarita Simonyan, the Editor-in-chief of state-funded RT news, made the following ominous prediction: "By what is happening and still about to happen, this week marks either the eve of our imminent victory, or the eve of nuclear war. I can't see anything third."
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/referendums-set-series-ukraine-regions-national-mobilization-being-pushed-through

And, complicating matters in the East...Putin throws China under the bus in a ploy to bolster his image at home and in the contested areas of his SMO...

A top Chinese official has expressed support for Russia’s war in Ukraine during his visit to Moscow, apparently believing it was a closed-door meeting. But the Kremlin released the footage to make his remarks known to the entire world.

Li Zhanshu, the third most important Chinese Communist Party (CCP) figure and a member of the Standing Committee of the Politburo, visited Russia from Sept. 7 to 10 before Chinese leader Xi Jinping met with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Uzbekistan on Sept. 15.

Li met with Putin in Vladivostok and later with Vyacheslav Volodin, chairman of the State Duma, and Valentina Matviyenko, chairwoman of the Federation Council, in Moscow, along with leaders of the five political parties of the State Duma.

His low-profile visit to Russia did not attract much attention until a video went viral on social media platforms such as Twitter, causing public outcry.

“With the United States and NATO now at Russia’s doorstep, it has become an issue concerning Russia’s national security and the lives of its people,” Li claimed.

“Under such circumstances, Russia takes some measures that it deems appropriate, and China fully understands the necessity of all the measures taken by Russia aimed at protecting its key interests. We are providing our assistance.”
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russia-publicizes-beijings-supportive-statement-while-chinas-state-media-keeps-silent

Nice pals.

I always said from Day One...once they have conquered the West and/or rendered them impotent...these two would devour each other.

Not that I GAFF...now or ever...

 

[patentlymn]

The supposed RU-China split over the exposed remarks seems real tepid to me. I did not see anything new.
The Chinese remarks were always like that to me.
The Duran had a video where they said that the recent Samarkand meeting which included China, India, and Russia, was to get their support or at least no opposition to referendums in the DPR and LPR.
More interesting to me than most of their stuff.

I think RU and china have to be allies given the sanctions from the US and west to so many countries.
Like Kissinger said, it is bad to be a US enemy but worse to be an ally. China gets energy, food, and raw materials and RU gets consumer goods and electronics. They would be fools to break up that deal.

US policy used to be to split RU and China, now we drove them together. I suspect the US is trying to play up a RU china split over nothing.

With Trump I always required direct quotes, not the MSM version of what he said. Same now for Putin and the RU MOD and Foreign Service. I do not give much weight to what RU media or  politicians or even most govt officials say. They are like counter parts in the US.

I have been seeing headlines about Putin being desperate and even resorting to nukes for a long time. I do not follow Ukr battles day to day. The more I hear the more it seems that the withdrawal from Kharkov area was long planned and strategic. There was  a lack of real fighting.  RU never set up local govt admins? The Duran video below is 27 min long but more interesting to me than most. RU has been working hard to at least keep most countries from opposing their actions, through modulating their actions and diplomacy. Most recently at Samarkand. Referendums mean attacks on DPR and LPR are attacks on RU.

https://youtu.be/qskLuWb0GEM
Referendums. Special Military Operation coming to an end?

[Libertas]

The supposed RU-China split over the exposed remarks seems real tepid to me. I did not see anything new.
The Chinese remarks were always like that to me.
The Duran had a video where they said that the recent Samarkand meeting which included China, India, and Russia, was to get their support or at least no opposition to referendums in the DPR and LPR.
More interesting to me than most of their stuff.

I think RU and china have to be allies given the sanctions from the US and west to so many countries.
Like Kissinger said, it is bad to be a US enemy but worse to be an ally. China gets energy, food, and raw materials and RU gets consumer goods and electronics. They would be fools to break up that deal.

US policy used to be to split RU and China, now we drove them together. I suspect the US is trying to play up a RU china split over nothing.

With Trump I always required direct quotes, not the MSM version of what he said. Same now for Putin and the RU MOD and Foreign Service. I do not give much weight to what RU media or  politicians or even most govt officials say. They are like counter parts in the US.

I have been seeing headlines about Putin being desperate and even resorting to nukes for a long time. I do not follow Ukr battles day to day. The more I hear the more it seems that the withdrawal from Kharkov area was long planned and strategic. There was  a lack of real fighting.  RU never set up local govt admins? The Duran video below is 27 min long but more interesting to me than most. RU has been working hard to at least keep most countries from opposing their actions, through modulating their actions and diplomacy. Most recently at Samarkand. Referendums mean attacks on DPR and LPR are attacks on RU.

https://youtu.be/qskLuWb0GEM
Referendums. Special Military Operation coming to an end?

Are you denying he met Li, that Li didn't say what he said or that the meeting was recorded and released by Russian state media or alleging it was made up?  It's telling that neither Xi denounced it as a fabrication of any kind...that Putin didn't declare it a fabrication of any kind...that any Russophile loyal bloggers/vloggers didn't denounce it as fabricated...

Seems to me where interested parties agree on the facts or do not dispute them that even state reporting from time to time can surprisingly be accurate.  This to me appears as one of those times.  So while I agree our clowns in the West probably would like to drive a wedge between them...I think it is poor timing because right now the West is their primary common foe...and rift, as I said earlier, is likely to be in the supremacy struggle between them in the post-war scarred-earth sweepstakes...

[patentlymn]

The supposed RU-China split over the exposed remarks seems real tepid to me. I did not see anything new.
The Chinese remarks were always like that to me.
The Duran had a video where they said that the recent Samarkand meeting which included China, India, and Russia, was to get their support or at least no opposition to referendums in the DPR and LPR.
More interesting to me than most of their stuff.

I think RU and china have to be allies given the sanctions from the US and west to so many countries.
Like Kissinger said, it is bad to be a US enemy but worse to be an ally. China gets energy, food, and raw materials and RU gets consumer goods and electronics. They would be fools to break up that deal.

US policy used to be to split RU and China, now we drove them together. I suspect the US is trying to play up a RU china split over nothing.

With Trump I always required direct quotes, not the MSM version of what he said. Same now for Putin and the RU MOD and Foreign Service. I do not give much weight to what RU media or  politicians or even most govt officials say. They are like counter parts in the US.

I have been seeing headlines about Putin being desperate and even resorting to nukes for a long time. I do not follow Ukr battles day to day. The more I hear the more it seems that the withdrawal from Kharkov area was long planned and strategic. There was  a lack of real fighting.  RU never set up local govt admins? The Duran video below is 27 min long but more interesting to me than most. RU has been working hard to at least keep most countries from opposing their actions, through modulating their actions and diplomacy. Most recently at Samarkand. Referendums mean attacks on DPR and LPR are attacks on RU.

https://youtu.be/qskLuWb0GEM
Referendums. Special Military Operation coming to an end?

Are you denying he met Li, that Li didn't say what he said or that the meeting was recorded and released by Russian state media or alleging it was made up?  It's telling that neither Xi denounced it as a fabrication of any kind...that Putin didn't declare it a fabrication of any kind...that any Russophile loyal bloggers/vloggers didn't denounce it as fabricated...

Seems to me where interested parties agree on the facts or do not dispute them that even state reporting from time to time can surprisingly be accurate.  This to me appears as one of those times.  So while I agree our clowns in the West probably would like to drive a wedge between them...I think it is poor timing because right now the West is their primary common foe...and rift, as I said earlier, is likely to be in the supremacy struggle between them in the post-war scarred-earth sweepstakes...

I do not hang on every word of the various diplomats but China and RU use very measured words.
My memory is not perfect. My impression of Chinese pronouncements were never support for the invasion but a statement that RU has a right a look out for their interests. Vague. My memory may be faulty. I expect a lack of stated support from China for any referendums  and maybe a failure to condemn. I always suspected Chinese support for the invasion but it was never said out loud. RU punched NATO in nose. What's not to like from China's point of view. They love it.

[patentlymn]

I looked at the language again from the CCP.

    “With the United States and NATO now at Russia’s doorstep, it has become an issue concerning Russia’s national security and the lives of its people,” Li claimed.

    “Under such circumstances, Russia takes some measures that it deems appropriate, and China fully understands the necessity of all the measures taken by Russia aimed at protecting its key interests. We are providing our assistance.”

I cannot compare to previous language. It seems the same to what I remember. "china understands the necessity" may be stronger language than before.

China "providing assistance" is well known just reading the blogs from Russia. EU cars are replaced with Chinese cars. Chinese phones I think. Chinese union pay credit cards? EU leaves a hole and China fills it.

China did not say "military assistance" but that may be true. I recall China refused to say they would or would NOT supply Chinese drones but I suspect they are supplying commercial/hobby drones because they are a nation of merchants and hustlers.

[patentlymn]

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/state-department-stops-publishing-military-expenditures-arms-transfer-report
US Ends Reports On Military Costs, Arms Transfers
Tyler Durden's Photo
by Tyler Durden
Tuesday, Sep 20, 2022 - 07:05 PM

Authored by Dave DeCamp via AntiWar.com,

The State Department announced in August that it will no longer publish World Military Expenditures and Arms Transfers (WMEAT) reports, which have been released by the US government since the 1960s.

The WMEATs detail US global military spending, arms transfers, and related data for each country in the world. The 2022 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) included an amendment that repealed a 1994 provision requiring the State Department to publish a WMEAT each year.

"Section 5114(b)(4) of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2022 repealed the 1994 statutory provision that required the Department of State to publish an edition of WMEAT every year. Consistent with this repeal, the Department of State will cease to produce and publish WMEAT," the State Department said on its website.

The State Department said that the report it published in 2021 was the "final edition" of the WMEAT. The 2021 WMEAT covered an 11-year period from 2009 through 2019 and found that the US was by far the world’s largest arms dealer.

During that period, about "79 percent of world arms trade by value appears to have been supplied by the United States."

The discontinuation of the WMEAT reports, which reduces the US government’s transparency, comes as the US is shipping billions of dollars worth of arms into Ukraine with virtually no oversight.

[Libertas]

Who reads bills?  Not commies or cucks...outside interests write the crap, staffers compile it into a bill and tell their masters that their masters have it set and they pass the crap with little to no debate and get miffed if We The People don't like it...so they come up with new ways to cut us out and screw us over...

Just like in any other sh*t run country on Earth...

Whatever, nobody will bitch much pretty soon...everybody will be gone...

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/putin-announces-partial-mobilization-major-ukraine-war-escalation

Vlad is basically claiming victim status (I thought he was weathering all sanctions and adversity with aplomb and without any hardship?), calling up reserves (never a good sign), annexing the 4 territories it took (possession is 10/10ths the law), calls his opponents Nazis (no mention if Utkin took offense) and says he "is not bluffing" if the West thinks he won't use nukes to protect Russia or himself.

So, I guess hurl whatever names one wishes at me....but I believe Putin...but I also believe the communist assholes and enabling Quisling cucks like McConnell, Romney et al running this country and its people into the sh*tter don't GAFF about us or the nation or anybody on the planet but their masters (all who obviously serve Satan) so any such statement, any such warning that Putin is not bluffing already fell on deaf ears...as far as I can determine there is nothing preventing global annihilation.

For certain the seems-scripted-to-me Chubby Commie Panda plea for ceasefire and negotiation statement is going to have zero effect on Russia as Vlad as already deemed negotiations pointless and the West has already been blamed.

I'm sure the dead will care who was to blame...and the living not yet dead will be just as interested...

/

[patentlymn]

Who reads bills?  Not commies or cucks...outside interests write the crap, staffers compile it into a bill and tell their masters that their masters have it set and they pass the crap with little to no debate and get miffed if We The People don't like it...so they come up with new ways to cut us out and screw us over...

Just like in any other sh*t run country on Earth...
...

Remember the olden times, when there was a US  anti-war lobby?

Liz Truss has some tweets. Almost no mention of the country she represents. Pure globalist crap.
https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1572268173256171520
My focus at the @UN
 General Assembly is to continue working with our international partners to fix the global energy crisis, support Ukraine and defend freedom and democracy around the world.


https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1572289554152886275
Liz Truss
@trussliz
·
19h
United Kingdom government official
President @EmmanuelMacron
 and I are committed to working together to end reliance on Russian energy, deepening 🇬🇧🇫🇷 cooperation to reduce volatility in the market and cut costs for households.
Putin’s economic blackmail cannot and will not succeed.

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1572568205843136515
Liz Truss
@trussliz
·
1h
United Kingdom government official
Last night I reaffirmed to Ukrainian First Lady @ZelenskaUA
 and Prime Minister @Denys_Shmyhal
 Britain's steadfast support for the Ukrainian people as they fight to restore their sovereignty and territorial integrity.

The UK will always #StandWithUkraine? 🇬🇧🇺🇦
.....

Poroshenko came out this year and said that Ukr had no intention of implementing the Minsk agreements. They were to buy time to build up the Ukr military. So when Russia says negotiations are pointless they point to that statement. Also the U turn by Ukr at some Istanbul peace talks in the spring.

Years ago there was some UN legal opinion justifying the right of Kosovo to secede from Serbia. Russia opposed this at the time and maybe said that the UN/US would  live to regret this. Now Russia can just change the names and use this opinion to justify the right of the Donbass to secede.

The US has been in a lot of wars in the past few decades, even if they were not called wars.
Of course they were all legally justified by the US in some way under international law.
Now Russia just swaps around some names to justify damn near anything.
This year Russia recognized LPR and DPR as independent countries then established some mutual defense agreement then intervened ahead of an imminent Ukr attack.

Meanwhile, while the US and west were pumping arms and money into Ukraine, the Chinese were making friends around the world. Yes, I know they are self serving.
A high speed train just arrived on the Chinese built rail line into land locked Laos. Not ready for passengers yet. China is the biggest trading partner for most countries in South America. It used to be the US.
https://youtu.be/sTvenXPVvTo?t=320
Laos China High Speed Train Arrives in Vientiane Laos | Now in Lao

[patentlymn]

Alexander Mercouris said he just returned from a business trip to a city in UK. He stayed in a 4 star hotel at a regional center. His room had no heat, no hot water, and no internet. The hotel manager said he was relying on wedding parties to stay afloat and staying in business was unlikely.  This one hotel is not likely the only one in trouble.

[Libertas]

Who reads bills?  Not commies or cucks...outside interests write the crap, staffers compile it into a bill and tell their masters that their masters have it set and they pass the crap with little to no debate and get miffed if We The People don't like it...so they come up with new ways to cut us out and screw us over...

Just like in any other sh*t run country on Earth...
...

Remember the olden times, when there was a US  anti-war lobby?   That was when America was confronting communists...now that they are full commies themselves...that no longer is a valid consideration for being anti-war.

Liz Truss has some tweets. Almost no mention of the country she represents. Pure globalist crap.
https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1572268173256171520
My focus at the @UN
 General Assembly is to continue working with our international partners to fix the global energy crisis, support Ukraine and defend freedom and democracy around the world.


https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1572289554152886275
Liz Truss
@trussliz
·
19h
United Kingdom government official
President @EmmanuelMacron
 and I are committed to working together to end reliance on Russian energy, deepening 🇬🇧🇫🇷 cooperation to reduce volatility in the market and cut costs for households.
Putin’s economic blackmail cannot and will not succeed.

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1572568205843136515
Liz Truss
@trussliz
·
1h
United Kingdom government official
Last night I reaffirmed to Ukrainian First Lady @ZelenskaUA
 and Prime Minister @Denys_Shmyhal
 Britain's steadfast support for the Ukrainian people as they fight to restore their sovereignty and territorial integrity.

The UK will always #StandWithUkraine? 🇬🇧🇺🇦
.....

Poroshenko came out this year and said that Ukr had no intention of implementing the Minsk agreements. They were to buy time to build up the Ukr military. So when Russia says negotiations are pointless they point to that statement. Also the U turn by Ukr at some Istanbul peace talks in the spring.  At least Poroshenko is honest, eh?

Years ago there was some UN legal opinion justifying the right of Kosovo to secede from Serbia. Russia opposed this at the time and maybe said that the UN/US would  live to regret this. Now Russia can just change the names and use this opinion to justify the right of the Donbass to secede.  See previous comment - being against something and then embracing it because the other clowns did it is ethically/morally dubious - either it is always wrong or always right...it may be pragmatic but Kissinger was pragmatic too and look where that sh*t led too!  PS-A true adherent of the rights of people/right of self-determination necessitates secession to be valid in all instances, yes?  Now, what do our leftist dregs think about that?

The US has been in a lot of wars in the past few decades, even if they were not called wars.
Of course they were all legally justified by the US in some way under international law.
Now Russia just swaps around some names to justify damn near anything.
This year Russia recognized LPR and DPR as independent countries then established some mutual defense agreement then intervened ahead of an imminent Ukr attack.

Meanwhile, while the US and west were pumping arms and money into Ukraine, the Chinese were making friends around the world. Yes, I know they are self serving.
A high speed train just arrived on the Chinese built rail line into land locked Laos. Not ready for passengers yet. China is the biggest trading partner for most countries in South America. It used to be the US. That's what happens when people sell their souls for mammon and leave their people hostages of the whims of foreign powers.
https://youtu.be/sTvenXPVvTo?t=320
Laos China High Speed Train Arrives in Vientiane Laos | Now in Lao

[Libertas]

Alexander Mercouris said he just returned from a business trip to a city in UK. He stayed in a 4 star hotel at a regional center. His room had no heat, no hot water, and no internet. The hotel manager said he was relying on wedding parties to stay afloat and staying in business was unlikely.  This one hotel is not likely the only one in trouble.

Winter could be sporting...

[patentlymn]

Back from the dog walk along the tracks.

More on that security agreement from Mar 2022. Here was the proposal tentatively agreed to by Russia and Kiev. Ukr would agree to say they would not join NATO or get nukes. Russia, Kiev, UK, US maybe more would agree to a security agreement in place of NATO. A mini NATO. The US would come to Kiev's aid if Russia attacked but that did not include the Donbass or Crimea. Unsure of the details on that last part.  That last part has lots of holes or question marks in it but not bad for the first pass. Russia then withdrew their forces from around Kiev either as a show of good faith or for other reasons.

Then Boris Johnson came saying the US/UK would never agree to be the guarantors if it did not include Crimea and Donbass plus offered many billions.  Kiev then pulled their offer off the table. Russia concluded that the diplomacy was another ruse like Minsk.

I had heard the above version before from another source.

The more I hear the more I think that the regular Russian army did very little fighting. That is why their death count is so low. They stay in the rear and do artillery and air support and logistics. Just like Syria. When you hear of infantry it is usually LPR, DPR, Chechens, Wagner, or other special battalions. When I saw videos it was from the Chechens, LPR, DPR or maybe some others. In part that was because they took cameras with them maybe more than the Russians. Anyway that puzzle is kinda solved for me.

Then there is the "Somali" brigade or battalion. WTF? It seems there was rag tag bunch that formed a brigade or battalion. Others mocked them and said they looked like a bunch of Somali pirates. They adopted the name.

[Libertas]

Yes, what nation would dare limit itself and agree to have pieces carved away and be denied any defense?!  Unthinkable!   

Seriously?  Turn it around...

Pro-Russia Ukranian government agrees to join the Russian Federation...West demands a treaty banning Ukraine from having nuclear weapons in its territory and not be a member of the Russian Federation security apparatus and Russia would be banned from intervening in Western Ukraine that has more interest in European relations than Russian, so if it votes itself into being annexed by the West y'all gotta back off...

What do you think the response would be?

Yup.

It's ALL bullsh*t, nobody has clean hands or honorable intentions in Ukraine...zip, zero...nada!!!

[Libertas]

Medvedev doubles-down...

Medvedev has taken the president's words further in Thursday statements, stressing that regarding Russian-seized territory and the move to vote in several areas - including the LPR, DPR, Kherson and Zaporozhye regions - "there is no going back" and that even a 'nuclear option' could be on the table.
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Russia has announced that not only mobilization capabilities, but also any Russian weapons, including strategic nuclear weapons and weapons based on new principles, could be used for such protection.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russian-nukes-can-be-used-defend-annexed-ukraine-regions-kremlin-warns

There is no walking back this position without looking like a big fat liar...Vlad said "not bluffing"...and our oppressors here are not going to capitulate to Russia no matter what...and the or what is answered pretty solid now...so it appears nothing can avert the inevitable.

I'd love to be proven wrong...I'm just seeing zero likelihood disaster can be avoided...nobody is interested in backing down...nobody interested in serious talks...too many hard lines folks won't yield on...it's all over but the horror...