Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine

[Libertas]

Yeah, well...we saw some similar scenes here during Vietnam...the last time things looked sour for them was their Afghanistan quagmire...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1572863899934019585

Some of these men look, to be fair...at least middle-aged.  Kind of hard not to see some as cannon fodder...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1572969458112544770

And the younger one's getting drunk and bitching seems about right...I mean, why not?

I like how the ethnic folks like in Dagestan are mocking and laughing and yelling at the recruiter/zampolit...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1572924327405707264

Company management putting draftees on buses...

Tickets for travel abroad have skyrocketed in price, with most being for one-way flights out of the country.

As protest calls circulated online, the Moscow prosecutor's office warned that organizing or participating in such actions could lead to up to 15 years in prison. Authorities issued similar warnings ahead of other protests recently. Wednesday's were the first nationwide anti-war protests since the fighting began in late February.

The state communication watchdog Roskomnadzor also warned media that access to their websites would be blocked for transmitting "false information" about the mobilization. It was unclear exactly what that meant.

Doesn't seem to be a deterrent at present...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1572645894968987648

https://twitter.com/i/status/1572627156273926145

Well, they got one, LOL.

"During a televised interview on Wednesday, Shoigu said Russia would be targeting 300,000 draftees, mainly those with recent military experience. But the actual number in an order signed by Putin is secret."
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/mobilization-begins-scenes-around-russia-what-are-we-going

Looks like Shoigu resurfaced...we know its him, a re-programmed him or a replacement look-alike him?

Well, whatever...

This is starting to look a bit desperate, and it could backfire into more and more domestic dissent than they've experienced since the Soviet collapse.

Seems to be confirmation of the older gents being grabbed and the inexperienced -

“It’s not a partial mobilisation, it’s a 100% mobilisation,” said Alexandra Garmazhapova, president of the Free Buryatia Foundation, an activist group that has reported on the draft in the region. In the past day, she said, she and her colleagues had received and identified more than 3,000 reports of povestka, or draft papers, being delivered in Buryatia within just 24 hours of Vladimir Putin announcing the draft.

Despite assurances that Russia would be seeking men who had recently served in the army and had combat experience, activists pointed to a number of cases of men in their 50s receiving draft notices.

One woman said a 52-year-old relative had been delivered a povestka shortly before the president announced the draft the previous day.

Yanina Nimayeva, a journalist from Ulan-Ude in Buryatia, complained that her 38-year-old husband had received a draft notice despite never having served in the army.

“‘Don’t you have five children?’ they asked him. My husband laughed and said ‘yes, five kids’. ‘Well, OK, expect your draft papers,’” she said.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/22/russia-mobilisation-ukraine-war-army-drive

On the GTFO scene -

https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1572946993814568966

Agree with comments that say some must be allowed to skitter, or they'll drag down morale...

Though the Euro position on the receiving end is unsurprisingly schizophrenic...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/eu-divided-giving-asylum-russians-fleeing-mobilization

And the recent prisoner exchange is not going over well among many Russians...exacerbating declining domestic tranquility further...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/azov-fighters-pro-kremlin-oligarch-biggest-prisoner-swap-war-has-outraged-some-russia

And I don't thnk production can be sped up enough to matter...

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/russia-prepares-ramp-stealth-jet-production-amid-rising-threat-war-west

...if you don't have it now...it probably won't come into play...

If anybody thinks things are going to get better they are just not capable of rational thought...

ETA  for smart-ass comment...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/09/russia-claims-eliminated-former-blackwater-mercs-azov-fighters-ukraine/

So, Ukrainian and American Nazi's are eliminated?  Can we negotiate a ceasefire now?

Hello?

(crickets)

[patentlymn]

Yes, what nation would dare limit itself and agree to have pieces carved away and be denied any defense?!  Unthinkable!   

Seriously?  Turn it around...

Pro-Russia Ukranian government agrees to join the Russian Federation...West demands a treaty banning Ukraine from having nuclear weapons in its territory and not be a member of the Russian Federation security apparatus and Russia would be banned from intervening in Western Ukraine that has more interest in European relations than Russian, so if it votes itself into being annexed by the West y'all gotta back off...

What do you think the response would be?

Yup.

It's ALL bullsh*t, nobody has clean hands or honorable intentions in Ukraine...zip, zero...nada!!!

This agreement was tentatively agreed to in the spring as a way to end the war. IMO the Minsk agreements would have been better, keeping the Donbass inside of Ukr. BUT warmongers gotta war. 

[Libertas]

Yes, what nation would dare limit itself and agree to have pieces carved away and be denied any defense?!  Unthinkable!   

Seriously?  Turn it around...

Pro-Russia Ukranian government agrees to join the Russian Federation...West demands a treaty banning Ukraine from having nuclear weapons in its territory and not be a member of the Russian Federation security apparatus and Russia would be banned from intervening in Western Ukraine that has more interest in European relations than Russian, so if it votes itself into being annexed by the West y'all gotta back off...

What do you think the response would be?

Yup.

It's ALL bullsh*t, nobody has clean hands or honorable intentions in Ukraine...zip, zero...nada!!!

This agreement was tentatively agreed to in the spring as a way to end the war. IMO the Minsk agreements would have been better, keeping the Donbass inside of Ukr. BUT warmongers gotta war.

Neither want peace, and they'll get what they want...

It's everybody else, like us, getting taken down a road we do not want...

I blame them all, no discrimination...because I doubt God will discriminate in His judgement either...

[patentlymn]

Tucker let the above proposed agreement out of the bag on TV. Ruh roh.
https://youtu.be/1MJDvr-1Z-A
Tucker Carlson: This is insane


Ursula of EU kinda threatens Italy if their upcoming election goes in the wrong direction. In the first few seconds of the video.

https://youtu.be/g-OMX4FXN_E

Ursula, 'we have tools' if Italy votes wrong way. Peskov, Russian constitution after vote. Update 3

[patentlymn]

Looks like pre 1965 America.

https://t.me/intelslava/37876

[Libertas]

Tucker let the above proposed agreement out of the bag on TV. Ruh roh.
https://youtu.be/1MJDvr-1Z-A
Tucker Carlson: This is insane


Ursula of EU kinda threatens Italy if their upcoming election goes in the wrong direction. In the first few seconds of the video.

https://youtu.be/g-OMX4FXN_E

Ursula, 'we have tools' if Italy votes wrong way. Peskov, Russian constitution after vote. Update 3

As for the former...this situation would not be on the brink of WWIII if the 2020 election was not grotesquely stolen by the corrupt despotic left...once the leftists and the DeepState clowns they are in bed with went all-in on destroying Trump and to this day still push the old (and try to invent new) Russia collusion lies...they were wedded to it no matter what comes of such insanity...it is all we are seeing on the American front from this illegitimate regime...they literally do not care if the world becomes a radioactive cinder...it is preferable to them than having to admit they a dead wrong on EVERYTHING.  This is the calculus the so-called 4D genius Putin needs to understand...there are unsane unrepresentative totalitarian scum leading this nation and pinning all the sins of the world on Trump/Trumpians and Putin/Russians...

The Pentagon is now dusting off the nuclear war playbooks...

The JoeFraud regime as been issuing regular backchannel warnings to Russia about using nuclear weapons in Ukraine...Russia keeps doubling-down on the threat...and promises full Russian protection (including nuclear) for annexed territories...and they've even said deployment of nukes to these areas will happen. 

Nobody believes the other...so no way this ends well.

But we would not be in the total sh*t we are in if not for the DemoCommie/DeepState hijacking of America...

As for the latter...

Those "tools" the bitch of Brussels refers to are the same heavy-handed extortions and threats they've been levelling on Hungary and Poland...and their "difficult direction" is anybody threatening their leftist totalitarian government...it's no different than the JoeFraud declaration of war on political enemies here in America...the one thing leftists cannot tolerate is political opponents becoming popular and replacing them in leadership...so "tools" of despotism come into play.  This is their 2016 moment, their hegemony is threatened...next they'll be doing their own 2020 crap too!

With Meloni looking like she'll be the next PM of Italy...we'll see what the Bitch of Brussels does...but I expect all she'll really do in the end is drive more to shift to political opposition...so my prediction of 2020-level manipulation is practically certain.

[Libertas]

Looks like pre 1965 America.

https://t.me/intelslava/37876

Sure...the equivalent of comparing patriotic Russians being recruited from patriotic areas...like the conservative Southern states vs. liberally Northern states during the Vietnam buildup...

But, the comparisons do not end with the joyous patriots...they also have their conscientious objectors...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/finland-shuts-borders-russia-military-age-men-flee

And not all recruits seem properly patriotic...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1573272879655010306

Dying for what?  Neither side can satisfactorily answer that...this is no noble fight on any side...they are all pawns...

But hey, die on that battlefield...or vaporized in what it breeds...what difference does it make?

Putin's "not bluffing" meets Illegitimate JoeFraud regime's ...see a way out of this that doesn't end in WWIII that is realistic?

 

[patentlymn]

By pre 1965 America I meant the lack of diversity.

Is the Russian draft increasing? I am not sure it is. I believe they called up 300,000 in the reserves. They have to respond and provide current status. Russia cannot absorb that many all on the same day. I believe the conscripts serve to create the reserves. They will not be sent to combat because they are too green. They back fill jobs in the rear. I believe the "contract" soldiers are used in combat.


Some talking heads say that the 'masters of the universe' thought that the west ruled the world because we controlled the finances. Now Russia shows that stuff matters. Like fuel, food, fertilizer.

[Libertas]

Diversity?

Well, the Dutch didn't bring African slaves to Russia...they already had a long history of exploiting their peasants for manual labor and had no need for such imports...

Lucky them, eh?

[patentlymn]

Gen Zu_ of Ukr went public in refusing to take part in any Kherson counter attack because his men would get slaughtered. A charge over flat open ground with no air cover. So Ze over rode him and did it anyway. Gen Zu DID want to take the Kharkov area.

Alexander of Duran read parts of a NYT article about Kherson.
It was a huge slaughter. Senseless. Now Ze is impatient and wants  victories for PR regardless of the cost in lives.

I heard that RU used the attack near Kharkov to kill lots of Ukr troops as RU withdrew fast.

https://youtu.be/JjkOTAPqwj8
Russia Counterblow, NYT Admits Ukraine Massive Losses in Stalled Offensive; UK Teeters on The Brink
.
More Kiev shelling of civilian areas in the east. Perhaps to scare people ahead of the referendums.
This shelling has been going on for 8 years. There is great pressure on Putin to reply in kind.
US supplied artillery is now used for this.

https://youtu.be/CWqeFG7DhIs
Ukraine shelled a completely civilian area of central Donetsk, killing at least 5 civilians. 3 min long.

https://youtu.be/zJpXcwMAVeI
Carnage: Ukraine's terrorism on Donetsk September 19 killed 16 civilians, 9 in one spot. 2 min long.







https://t.me/grahamwphillips/514
🔞 Another deadly day in Donetsk comes to a conclusion, a minimum of seven civilians killed by Ukrainian shelling across Donetsk, including two teenagers, at least six more wounded

https://twitter.com/GraviolaDOTfi/statu ... 2165894144
Graviola Finland
@GraviolaDOTfi
·
Sep 23
#Kiev's Attempt To Disrupt #Referendum Claimed Lives Of At Least 6 #Civilians In #Donetsk (18+) | Sep 22
- the attack was chosen in accordance with the main goal of the #AFU, to kill as many civilians as possible, at noon, when the #market is most #crowded

https://archive.ph/ut0l6

[patentlymn]

These are almost all voting videos.

The citizen journalists are returning to report on the referendum. I have not found any videos by Eva Bartlett yet or the German woman or the French woman. The shelling of civilian areas has been going on for 8 years. A little more now perhaps because of the upcoming referendums. There is immense pressure on Putin to reply in kind. When these places join Russia that might happen, or not.

Patrick Lancaster reports from Kherson. Support for Russia is less there than in DPR and LPR.
Graham Phillips reports from Lugansk
They cover the voting. Where is CNN? Where is the MSM? On bar stools in Kiev.

https://youtu.be/lgYqusaO2Gg
Today the Referendums To Join Russia Started In Ukraine. Ukraine condemns it calling them a ‘propaganda show’ but never the less the voting begins in Russian-controlled territory of what is internationally recognized as Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk, & Lugansk Regions (Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics).

Graham Phillips reports from Lugansk
https://youtu.be/kR3r9DyVUfA
Donbass - Referendum Moments 2!!! (Lugansk, LNR - today!! )

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/10167

This is the first Lugansk video from Graham Phillips.  If you want to see how the voting is done the videos, especially the Patrick Lancaster video shows some.

https://youtu.be/0CuiyWNrCV0
Donbass - Referendum Moments!!! (Lugansk, LNR - today!! )


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsHETTkZvyk
The Status of Lysychansk, Donbass, LNR
23,706 views
Sep 17, 2022

https://youtu.be/_tA78U7KbJQ
Lysychansk - The People Speak!! (Uncensored Reportage - Donbass)
24,271 views
Sep 18, 2022


There are international election observers on the ground. I came across one in a video.

https://t.me/iEarlGreyTV/3066
[Forwarded from Fiorella Isabel News & International Politics (Fiorella)]
[ Video ]
I specialize in elections. From what I’m seeing in this referendum, with IDs, paper ballots, & a clear chain of custody, the DPR, LPR, Kherson, Zaporozhye regions have far more fair & transparent elections than the U.S., in SPITE of attempted shelling by Ukraine. Yet the U.S media-politic calls it a sham.

Meanwhile in the US, black box voting means your vote is done on a machine owned by the subsidiary of a ghost corporation, no paper ballots, no audits, easily hacked, no ID, can vote by mail with no ballot tracking or chain of custody & you’re a terrorist for questioning this.

I was on the ground in Nicaragua when the New York Times lied, saying they were closing polling locations (false) & that their elections were a sham, but along with other journalists, we destroyed that narrative. It seems like what the US calls a “sham” is actual sovereignty.

https://twitter.com/fiorellaisabelm/sta ... 6gUsnCNYoQ

https://youtu.be/DLrn5GvxC7E

International Observers Show At Ukraine Referendums To Join Russia
Patrick Lancaster
520K subscribers
76,587 views Sep 25, 2022
Referendums To Join Russia are in full process In Ukraine. International Observers(Citizens from other countries asked by Russia to Observer Referendums) have hit the polling stations to observe what is happening and give their opinion on how the referendums in the Russian-controlled territory of what is internationally recognized as Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk, & Lugansk Regions (Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics) are going. With Ukraine condemning the referendums calling them a ‘propaganda show’ but never the less the voting began and thousands of people are going to cast their votes.

Also I saw some suicide drones from Iran with delta wings. The 5-10K USD price was low to me.
They are not that special in features.

[Libertas]

Yup, all sides doing their own thing and ignoring their adversary and anything they may say...

Anybody who thinks there is a clean exit out of this is nuts...

There is chatter about documents leaked in Russia that says the real call up of reserves is closer to 1.2M not 300k, 300k doesn't do jack sh*t for Russia, not with stiff penalties for deserters and refuseniks, the continued massive money drops corrupt "Russia! Russia! Russia! DemoCommies & Cucks, the Euro's stripping their shelves bare and shipping weapons and ammo to Ukraine, NASAMS in-theatre and...

Russia continuing to pound the East and getting more active in the South - https://liveuamap.com

I expect the larger call up is right, I think they intend to enter Kyiv and decapitate the government and I expect to see a rapid escalation and braodening of the front all the way up to the Baltic and nukes getting tossed about...

[patentlymn]

When was this video made? I only have the telegram version.
Biden is saying we would end NS2.
Now there were two explosions, blowing up NS1 and NS2.

https://t.me/iEarlGreyTV/3182
Biden If Russia invades .... "There will no longer be a NS2. We will bring an end to it."
How will you do that exactly....?
Biden: "I promise you we will be able to do it. "



https://t.me/rocknrollgeopolitics/4907
THE PLOT THICKENS

And it's getting increasingly hardcore.

The Swedish National Seismic Network registered POWERFUL UNDERWATER EXPLOSIONS exactly in the same area of the immense gas leaks on both Nord Streams pipelines.

Could it be that the usual suspects are SO absolutely desperate that they went for - or subcontracted - a gambit that may be easily unmasked?

[patentlymn]

Yup, all sides doing their own thing and ignoring their adversary and anything they may say...

Anybody who thinks there is a clean exit out of this is nuts...

There is chatter about documents leaked in Russia that says the real call up of reserves is closer to 1.2M not 300k, 300k doesn't do jack sh*t for Russia, not with stiff penalties for deserters and refuseniks, the continued massive money drops corrupt "Russia! Russia! Russia! DemoCommies & Cucks, the Euro's stripping their shelves bare and shipping weapons and ammo to Ukraine, NASAMS in-theatre and...

Russia continuing to pound the East and getting more active in the South - https://liveuamap.com

I expect the larger call up is right, I think they intend to enter Kyiv and decapitate the government and I expect to see a rapid escalation and braodening of the front all the way up to the Baltic and nukes getting tossed about...

The larger call up could be right. I dunno.
What I heard is that privates and sergeants up to 35 years old, jr officers up to 50, and sr officers up to 55 are subject to being called up. There are several exemptions for things like being the sole support for kids and things like that. Students not called up.
I am not sure conscription is any different than before. One year term. I do not think conscripts could see combat even if they begged. IMO some people are panicking to avoid conscription. The reserves may see combat and have reason to flee.

[Libertas]

Yup, all sides doing their own thing and ignoring their adversary and anything they may say...

Anybody who thinks there is a clean exit out of this is nuts...

There is chatter about documents leaked in Russia that says the real call up of reserves is closer to 1.2M not 300k, 300k doesn't do jack sh*t for Russia, not with stiff penalties for deserters and refuseniks, the continued massive money drops corrupt "Russia! Russia! Russia! DemoCommies & Cucks, the Euro's stripping their shelves bare and shipping weapons and ammo to Ukraine, NASAMS in-theatre and...

Russia continuing to pound the East and getting more active in the South - https://liveuamap.com

I expect the larger call up is right, I think they intend to enter Kyiv and decapitate the government and I expect to see a rapid escalation and braodening of the front all the way up to the Baltic and nukes getting tossed about...

The larger call up could be right. I dunno.
What I heard is that privates and sergeants up to 35 years old, jr officers up to 50, and sr officers up to 55 are subject to being called up. There are several exemptions for things like being the sole support for kids and things like that. Students not called up.
I am not sure conscription is any different than before. One year term. I do not think conscripts could see combat even if they begged. IMO some people are panicking to avoid conscription. The reserves may see combat and have reason to flee.

Both Putin and Shoigu said the call up is for men 18-65.  And judging from some clips, they are grabbing older gents.  All signs point to a larger mobilization.  Initially, until trained up/needed they'll be in reserve and support...so it all depends on the attrition rate of the new offensive for those active front line guys...

[Libertas]

Some wishful thinking but I understand the Soviet hangover and ingrained resentment generating an impulse to poke a stick in a Russian eye...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/lithuania-urges-russian-anti-war-protesters-overthrow-putin

...just not very likely...unless things go badly and an Ides of March event occurs...

This, however...is proving my previous analysis correct...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/putin-gives-major-speech-part-ukraine-annexation-ceremony

Additionally Putin is expected to make a "major" speech, according to the statement by Dmitry Peskov. Polls in the breakaway republics of Donetsk and Luhansk, and in Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, closed by Tuesday evening, and as expected returned an overwhelming "yes" vote.

he annexation will be formalized at the ceremony, and it's likely that President Putin will reiterate warnings against Ukrainian forces attacking the newly declared annexed territories.

Putin said in a televised meeting with officials on Tuesday as voting closed in the four regions: "Saving people in the territories where this referendum is taking place... is the focus of the attention of our entire society and of the entire country."

On Wednesday Russian media declared a huge sweep in favor of the four occupied regions becoming part of Russia. In some of the regions the "yes" vote was at 98% - which was somewhat expected especially in the breakaway Russian speaking republics where the dividing line had already be made clear through years of war going back to 2014.

A White House statement said in response to the "sham" referendums, "The United States will never recognize Ukrainian territory as anything other than part of Ukraine. Russia’s referenda are a sham – a false pretext to try to annex parts of Ukraine by force in flagrant violation of international law, including the United Nations Charter."

It added, "We will continue to support the Ukrainian people and provide them with security assistance to help them defend themselves as they courageously resist Russia’s invasion." About 18% of Ukraine will be claimed by Russia with this annexation announcement.



Yeah, I dunno about 98%...before the Russian invasion/SMO whatever you want to call it I don't think 98% of the people there were "Russian"...so either lots of Ukrainian's got snuffed (by whomever you think responsible, for this exercise lets just say both) that purified the ethnicity make up or the percentage is exaggerated...but to the JoeFraud Regime's point...it's ironic they call the referendums a "sham"...I would love to ask them if it is a US 2020 national election level "sham" or a more or less egregious "sham" than US 2020?  Well, they'd effing lie anyway, so I guess all we can say if they are right about these referendums it is only because cheaters hate other cheaters if it goes against their agenda...

And the part about never recognizing the annexation and Russia determined to hold them...both adamant and inflexible...guarantees escalation and expansion of conflict.

FYI - https://thesurvivalgeek.com/us-nuclear-target-list/

ETA - Ahhh.....

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/09/time-germans-can-prevent-world-war-want/

...what a Pollyanna!

[Libertas]

"Any strikes targeting the new areas after their accession to Russia will be considered aggression against us,"

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/watch-live-putin-declares-annexation-eastern-ukraine

https://youtu.be/U06jlgpMtQs

And this is nothing new...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/pentagon-increases-surveillance-russias-kaliningrad-nuclear-tensions-heighten

...been sniffing the Baltics for several months, Poland to Moldova for several months and the Black Sea since Day One...

...anybody watching the heavy-lift, tankers (they feed fighters), drones, 90k Ft spy balloons and ship traffic knows a build-up/step-up has been in play...

...don't expect DeepState JoeFraud puppet regime to care about Vlad's warnings...

https://youtu.be/P6WD7B_I_9c

[patentlymn]

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/11101
23 people were killed and 34 wounded as a result of a Ukrainian strike on a convoy of civilian vehicles on the way to the liberated part of the Zaporozhye region.

This was reported by a representative of the local administration.

So, cars were headed out from Kievcontrolled territory to Russian controlled territory and they were shelled.
Kiev says that they were really just going to the Russian controlled areas to pick up relative so they could bring them back to Kiev controlled areas so the Russians shelled them.

https://youtu.be/UKhs7PbjzvU

I do not care much about the govts in Kiev or Moscow. I care about the people in Ukraine.
Those in the east will now have a chance at peace. They have been shelled for 8 years. Those in the west and north will have to get over not being able to kill Russians in the east. IMO implementing Minsk was 10x better than the current situation.

Blowing up the pipelines was an immature bonehead move. Germany is dead.

[patentlymn]

Interesting guy. Plain spoken.
https://youtu.be/XgVSK0uNDZQ
 GERMANY ATTACKED! - THE DAY JOE BIDEN MURDERED EUROPE
Garland Nixon

[Libertas]

LOL

Nobody will have "peace"...

And JoeFraud, Nuland, CIA et al warned NS would go down...

Satan apparently has the world by the balls...which is to say all the world's major leaders and handlers are under demonic influence...any talk of peace is a load of BS...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ukraine-applies-accelerated-nato-membership-stoltenberg-speak-soon

Just a plethora of common ground between everybody, isn't there?

/