Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine

[patentlymn]

I usually try to seek out some objective truth. It is possible. Especially when people accidentally tell you what they really believe. When Sec Def Austin says the US wants to bleed Russia white and degrade Russia so they cannot fight any more I believe him. I note he left out the Ukrainians. He also did not say who would be dying to bleed the Russians white.   Then those in Kiev say they want their sacred land but never say they want to free their conquered brothers from the Russian jack boot I take note. I believe they want the land, the people on it not so much. Whether bleeding Russia white using Ukrainians is right or wrong is a different question.

I only recently learned that 21 of 22 Russian Republics have at least one official language in addition to Russian which is taught in public schools. I thought they all spoke only Russian. So in that part of the world that is a way to keep the peace. Some expect Ukraine to be like Iowa in the US with English as the only language. It just doesn't fit with that part of the world.

We could start fining Hispanics for speaking Spanish in the US southwest but what for? That is what Ukraine was doing. The point is not that it is right or wrong but what is the upside?  What is their motivation?  Moldova allows Russian as a regional official language. Switzerland had 3 official languages as does Cyprus. Some of China has 2 or 3. It makes sense in those areas.

The reason for Kiev going to war is one of the lamest ever. They will lose everything all to be tools of the US. The US is not big into rebuilding in case you haven't noticed.

I heard that every foreign Islamic fighter entering Syria  knew that they were entitled to kill the husband and take the wife as a war trophy under Islamic law. For some SOB who had no other chance for a wife that is a good reason for fighting. Historically maybe a common one.

The Kiev regime will not end up with much of anything. They get to kill ethnic Russians and prevent them and theirs from speaking Russian. Germany and Japan started WWII to grab resources as they were late to the imperialist party which is a good historical reason for war. Kiev could have ruled over a federation where the east had some autonomy, spoke some Russian, and paid lots of taxes to Kiev. Instead they decided to die as US tools.

The right way to wage war is a matter of opinion and morals. I note that the US way would have been lights out in Kiev on day 1. Now the Russians finally do it and the western press goes nuts. Where were they when the the US bombed Serbia for almost 3 months straight?  The MSM has lost all objectivity long ago.

[patentlymn]

I don't know much Baltic history but come across small snips of news stories that makes me wonder.
I understand how there would be residual local anti Russian sentiment because of the Soviet domination.
I wonder if it is older than that. Is is older pro German anti Russian sentiment?

I hear small stories that make me think they are real anti Russian bigots. One or more Baltic states deny citizenship to residents who do not speak the national language well enough. This is usually older folks who moved in and never learned it as their kids often did.

Now some Baltic govt minister told some orthodox priest that if he did not denounce the Moscow patriarch he would revoke his residency permit.

I recall one such country refused entry to Russian draft dodgers.

I also heard a joke about some Baltic country.

1. You never ask a woman her age.
2. You never ask a man his salary.
3. You never ask a citizen which SS division their grandfather was in.

[patentlymn]

...
Yeah...I don't know what to tell ya?

Short answer - who cares?  Seriously, who...and more importantly, who will after the Earth is a radioactive cinder?

Long answer - not sure if you are expecting something impossible to happen...like everybody agrees with you, the wars and hate and suffering end and it's sunshine and harmony and whatever...but it is just totally unrealistic.
 ...

If I read about WWII I do not expect to change the outcome.
I just seek to understand.
I blame my history major dad. He had wanted to be an anthropologist. I am an arm chair anthropologist.
I listen to people.
I listen to Kiev soldiers, DPR soldiers, LPR soldiers, Russian soldiers, civilians.  Mostly the  later.

[Libertas]

...
Yeah...I don't know what to tell ya?

Short answer - who cares?  Seriously, who...and more importantly, who will after the Earth is a radioactive cinder?

Long answer - not sure if you are expecting something impossible to happen...like everybody agrees with you, the wars and hate and suffering end and it's sunshine and harmony and whatever...but it is just totally unrealistic.
 ...

If I read about WWII I do not expect to change the outcome.
I just seek to understand.
I blame my history major dad. He had wanted to be an anthropologist. I am an arm chair anthropologist.
I listen to people.
I listen to Kiev soldiers, DPR soldiers, LPR soldiers, Russian soldiers, civilians.  Mostly the  later.

Gotchya.  Using a WWII lens on latter day events (I would argue Vietnam era and forward) is like comparing apples to a rotted fruit salad full of flies and maggots at worst or an orange at best...

And as far as people go...that's a mixed bag...to me its all petty, envious, lustful, greedy low-life immoral leaders throwing fodder into fires...I see no honor, no champion, no virtue on any side...just perps and victims...

[Libertas]

Looks like another pipeline got messed with...



https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/major-russia-germany-oil-pipeline-partially-shut-after-leak

[patentlymn]

...
Yeah...I don't know what to tell ya?

Short answer - who cares?  Seriously, who...and more importantly, who will after the Earth is a radioactive cinder?

Long answer - not sure if you are expecting something impossible to happen...like everybody agrees with you, the wars and hate and suffering end and it's sunshine and harmony and whatever...but it is just totally unrealistic.
 ...

If I read about WWII I do not expect to change the outcome.
I just seek to understand.
I blame my history major dad. He had wanted to be an anthropologist. I am an arm chair anthropologist.
I listen to people.
I listen to Kiev soldiers, DPR soldiers, LPR soldiers, Russian soldiers, civilians.  Mostly the  later.

Gotchya.  Using a WWII lens on latter day events (I would argue Vietnam era and forward) is like comparing apples to a rotted fruit salad full of flies and maggots at worst or an orange at best...

And as far as people go...that's a mixed bag...to me its all petty, envious, lustful, greedy low-life immoral leaders throwing fodder into fires...I see no honor, no champion, no virtue on any side...just perps and victims...

I wonder if all the wars I went along with were based on lies.
I mentioned to some military history guy that Ho Chi Minh wanted the US to  back their independence from France as we did the same from Britain. He replied that the US did not because the US needed the cooperation of France in some other matter. I thought "So US soldiers died as a result of horse trading?"
The friendliness of the Vietnamese people and govt soon after the war still blows my mind.


I just heard that the US involvement in Yugoslavia under Bill Clinton was not to protect ethnic groups but for some other reason with the ethnic groups brought in as a reason later. Really?

In the "You can learn a lot by listening" category. Here is a short clip of a demonstration outside the Russian embassy in London by Ukrainians. You can download the telegram desktop app to view. Telegram is a non censored twitter. Ignore the editorial content and just listen to the protesters.

https://t.me/donbassinsider/23122
?? Ukrainian "refugees" gathered outside the Russian consulate in London and called for the murder of all Russian children while repeating the usual Banderite Nazi collaborator slogans.

??Many thanks to the admin of @heilukraine1959. I'm so glad he's back after his summer break.

??That's the face of Western democracy just there.

[Libertas]

H/T's-WRSA@GAB & WZ

All totalitarian globalist cultists want it...

[Libertas]

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/weve-never-been-closer-conflict-between-russia-nato-warns-top-czech-general

Resigned to ones fate...

All trends are negative...show me a positive...if there is one...

[Libertas]

Also, good update here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apK7h1oUiE0

He thinks Putin is sending nuclear warnings to blunt any aims the statists have with respect to developments in Ukraine, which we see includes Russia spanking energy, utility and military targets all across the country under General "Ruthless" Surovikin and NATO pulling together more dangerous toys for Ukraine...and Putin pushing Belarus to expand it's war support into direct military support...putting Poland and the Baltics and possibly Scandinavia in play...

I would like to think Putin & his generals are smart enough to not give the psychos over here an excuse to escalate things to where nukes fly before our mid-terms...but I think He's right that something or more than one thing is in-play by the DemoCommie/DeepState jackasses before the elections...false flag here, there...wherever...more plandemic scares...bribes, threats...it's going to be getting more batsyt-crazy...these clowns are feeling the desperation and panic as their economy collapsing efforts bear bitter fruit...logistics about to crap again, the embarrassing OPEC begging and bitch-slap....hitting NS pipeline...

It could be a squirrely several weeks...

[Libertas]

Hmmm, interesting...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russia-foils-attack-turkstream-pipeline

Perps arrested...bot nationality et al not disclosed...

Makes me think there could be some home-grown opposition doing the sabotage...with or without outside influence/support...

If they we're Uke's, American's etc pretty sure it would be broadcast far, loud and often...

[Libertas]

"We’re just following his recommendation."   

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/musk-cant-fund-starlink-ukraine-spacex-letter-reveals-request-pentagon-funding

 

In other news...just the usual...

EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell issued a threat against Russia on Thursday, warning that Western powers would "annihilate" the Russian army if Moscow uses nuclear weapons in Ukraine.

"Putin is saying he is not bluffing. Well, he cannot afford bluffing, and it has to be clear that the people supporting Ukraine and the European Union and the Member States, and the United States and NATO are not bluffing neither," Borrel said at a European Diplomatic Academy event in Bruges, Belgium.

"Any nuclear attack against Ukraine will create an answer, not a nuclear answer but such a powerful answer from the military side that the Russian Army will be annihilated," he added.
.
.
.
Russian officials insist Putin’s comments were nothing new and fell within Russia’s long-established military doctrine, which says nuclear weapons could be used if the country faces an "existential threat".
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russian-army-will-be-annihilated-if-uses-nukes-eus-borrell

I'm sure everything is fine...

/

Maybe Putin is looking for an exit...

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/futures-jump-putin-signals-ready-deescalate-airstrikes-ukraine

...but the mood for talks hasn't arrived yet, so...the games go on...

[Pandora]

Exit?  I'm pretty sure he already exists.................

[Libertas]

Exit?  I'm pretty sure he already exists.................

 

[patentlymn]

I heard Musk gave Ukr 20K starlink terminals and let them use them for free so far.
No  more Mr. nice guy. I think the fees would be $10 M per month if charged.

EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell recently described Europe as a garden surrounded by jungles which would invade the garden. Not his exact words. With "diplomats" like him how can things go wrong?

https://news24online.com/world/europe-is-a-garden-rest-of-the-world-is-a-jungle-eus-joseph-borrell/45265/

[patentlymn]

Police beat up demonstrators in Germany. Not sure when or where.
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/11743

[patentlymn]

So this guy Bald and Bankrupt has been the best salesman for greater Russia and the former USSR for several years. He now has 3.5 million followers. Over a hundred videos. He made 2 mistakes. Not sure which got him in trouble. He and a woman snuck into the cosmodrome building housing the Russian space shuttle, got caught, and paid a fine. While in Ukraine he was pressured into saying some pro Ukr stuff and maybe posting a link.

In any case, he was just kicked out of Russia and banned from returning by a court. Idiots.

He learned Russian 30 years ago.

20 min in.
https://youtu.be/qyB1l-89KEk?t=1202

[patentlymn]

I still have no idea on how the former USSR ethnic groups were located. A real mess.

This guy Bald and Bankrupt from England and his female friend from Belarus are in country  Kyrgyzstan where they speak Kyrgyz  and it is next to a country  Uzbekistan where they speak Uzbek aka Turki. Inside of  Kyrgyzstan  is an enclave Sokh where they speak Tajik, apparently a part of  Uzbekistan. They are inside  Kyrgyzstan and try to drive into Sokh enclave. They are turned back as it is a border crossing only for citizens of  Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan. They try a different crossing but get stuck in the snow over night and get towed out by friendly locals. This is the second video below.

The Sokh enclave is a very symbolical place in the Fergana Valley and in Central Asia. It is mostly populated by ethnic Tajiks, belongs to Uzbekistan, and is located in the territory of Kyrgyzstan.

In a different episode he learns there is a flight from Uzbekistan into enclave  Sokho inside Uzbekistan so they give it a try. It works. In a soviet bi plane.

So he finds a cab driver to show him the sights and insults him and everyone for the lousy sights.
At 25 min Then the guy invites him to his very nice home and serves him tea with his family  and his female companion says he is an A-hole. :lolh:
I love this stuff.
Invited inside the nice house in the second video.
https://youtu.be/34XymEDY9Wc?t=1494

a 2 min history lesson later on they try and fail to enter the enclave in the first video.
https://youtu.be/dmKRNQfp_Y0

a shot of where the first USSR cosmonaut stayed to recover after this space flight.
https://youtu.be/dmKRNQfp_Y0?t=607

they pick up a couple to Kyrgyz babushkas  to give them a ride.
They say yes there is a local tradition of bride stealing and of course they were both stolen.
https://youtu.be/dmKRNQfp_Y0?t=1500

ForestForTheTrees
ForestForTheTrees
4 months ago
The word Sokh comes from "Sogdia", which was the name of the people living in Uzbekistan and Tajikistan before the Turks lived there. The people in Sokh are Tajiks because the Sogdians were Persian, unlike most of the Turkic inhabitants of modern Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan. Alexander the Great's wife Roxana was the daughter of a Sogdian noble. The Sogdians were the greatest traders of the Silk Road, and the Sogdian language was its lingua franca all the way to the Byzantine Empire.

In the 8th century, a Sogdian general named An Lushan revolted in China, causing one of its worst civil wars in history - the An Lushan rebellion. It is believed that up to 2/3rds of the population may have died in the war, and as a result, the Chinese instituted a policy of Sogdian genocide once they regained power. All Sogdians in China were killed. This, coupled with the Turkic and Muslim conquests of Central Asia led to the decline and ultimate extinction of the Sogdian people, and now all that is left are places they once named.

[Libertas]

I heard Musk gave Ukr 20K starlink terminals and let them use them for free so far.
No  more Mr. nice guy. I think the fees would be $10 M per month if charged.

EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell recently described Europe as a garden surrounded by jungles which would invade the garden. Not his exact words. With "diplomats" like him how can things go wrong?

https://news24online.com/world/europe-is-a-garden-rest-of-the-world-is-a-jungle-eus-joseph-borrell/45265/

Yeah and Musk asked the Pentagon to start covering the StarLink costs and was told to eff off, thought I posted a link on that...anyway, and for being a free-thinking free-speech guy all he got from Ukraine was getting put on a kill list...

I would pull the plug, nobody needs ungrateful deadbeat clowns putting them on kill lists...

As for that EuroTrash...those open-border lunatics are capitulating to Muslim invaders they let walk in at the expense of their own citizens and culture...so their garden is rapidly skipping over the jungle and into a total sh!thole...

Good luck with that, moron.

[Libertas]

Police beat up demonstrators in Germany. Not sure when or where.
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/11743

Police everywhere love beating citizens senseless...unless their a protected group like BLM, Antifa, Greenies, sundry Marxists et al...

[Libertas]

I still have no idea on how the former USSR ethnic groups were located. A real mess.

This guy Bald and Bankrupt from England and his female friend from Belarus are in country  Kyrgyzstan where they speak Kyrgyz  and it is next to a country  Uzbekistan where they speak Uzbek aka Turki. Inside of  Kyrgyzstan  is an enclave Sokh where they speak Tajik, apparently a part of  Uzbekistan. They are inside  Kyrgyzstan and try to drive into Sokh enclave. They are turned back as it is a border crossing only for citizens of  Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan. They try a different crossing but get stuck in the snow over night and get towed out by friendly locals. This is the second video below.

The Sokh enclave is a very symbolical place in the Fergana Valley and in Central Asia. It is mostly populated by ethnic Tajiks, belongs to Uzbekistan, and is located in the territory of Kyrgyzstan.

In a different episode he learns there is a flight from Uzbekistan into enclave  Sokho inside Uzbekistan so they give it a try. It works. In a soviet bi plane.

So he finds a cab driver to show him the sights and insults him and everyone for the lousy sights.
At 25 min Then the guy invites him to his very nice home and serves him tea with his family  and his female companion says he is an A-hole. :lolh:
I love this stuff.
Invited inside the nice house in the second video.
https://youtu.be/34XymEDY9Wc?t=1494

a 2 min history lesson later on they try and fail to enter the enclave in the first video.
https://youtu.be/dmKRNQfp_Y0

a shot of where the first USSR cosmonaut stayed to recover after this space flight.
https://youtu.be/dmKRNQfp_Y0?t=607

they pick up a couple to Kyrgyz babushkas  to give them a ride.
They say yes there is a local tradition of bride stealing and of course they were both stolen.
https://youtu.be/dmKRNQfp_Y0?t=1500

ForestForTheTrees
ForestForTheTrees
4 months ago
The word Sokh comes from "Sogdia", which was the name of the people living in Uzbekistan and Tajikistan before the Turks lived there. The people in Sokh are Tajiks because the Sogdians were Persian, unlike most of the Turkic inhabitants of modern Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan. Alexander the Great's wife Roxana was the daughter of a Sogdian noble. The Sogdians were the greatest traders of the Silk Road, and the Sogdian language was its lingua franca all the way to the Byzantine Empire.

In the 8th century, a Sogdian general named An Lushan revolted in China, causing one of its worst civil wars in history - the An Lushan rebellion. It is believed that up to 2/3rds of the population may have died in the war, and as a result, the Chinese instituted a policy of Sogdian genocide once they regained power. All Sogdians in China were killed. This, coupled with the Turkic and Muslim conquests of Central Asia led to the decline and ultimate extinction of the Sogdian people, and now all that is left are places they once named.

Yeah, I've seen a lot of videos by that bald dude before...he gets very silly with the locals...I think a lot of them like it because their lives are so boring...IMO.

Alexander was one of the first to let cultures meld and interbreeding flourish...too late to argue if a good idea or not, but it did literally spawn new peoples and cultures...just look and Egypt before Alexander and after under the Ptolemy dynasty...