Author Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine  (Read 88432 times)

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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1200 on: January 09, 2023, 11:24:51 AM »
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/kremlin-says-military-confrontation-nato-already-happening-uk-mulls-sending-tanks

Hmmm, the self-appointed Chief of all Slavs seems a bit put out...ain't that a shame...

 ::smallestviolin::

Should have cut the best deal you could with Trump before you gambledwith another DemoXCommie DeepState puppet and got donkey-punched...

Gog & Magog...armageddon...everybody wants it...well all the lunatic shot-callers the world over do anyway...serfs get sucked into the sh*t through no fault of their own...

Fate

ETA - Damn, no wonder the lunatic Patrushev has been quoted a lot lately...

https://americafirstreport.com/vladimir-putin-is-reportedly-near-death-as-he-prepares-the-largest-russian-military-offensive-since-world-war-ii/

Czar Vlad kicks the bucket...one of the hotheads is likely to rise...I would expect quick action on a successor and it is unlike a sheep or dove gets the nod...


« Last Edit: January 09, 2023, 12:42:36 PM by Libertas »
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1201 on: January 10, 2023, 08:40:04 AM »
The Ukrainian diaspora to date...



https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/where-people-ukraine-are-fleeing

Nothing like war to spur a migration that could have happened peacefully had everybody been in their natural homeland from the get-go...

Kinda hard to argue now anybody left in-theater is not there by choice, eh?
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1202 on: January 10, 2023, 11:52:11 AM »
The Ukrainian diaspora to date...



https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/where-people-ukraine-are-fleeing

Nothing like war to spur a migration that could have happened peacefully had everybody been in their natural homeland from the get-go...

Kinda hard to argue now anybody left in-theater is not there by choice, eh?

I heard on internet that the Ukrainian emigrants after around 2014 for sure were different than before. They got real pumped up on hyper nationalism. Not like before. Some of this comes from EU opinions. Much comes from Ukrainians themselves.

I am not an expert historian on all this. I know that Stalin shipped people from their natural homelands to wherever he wanted. I know that he drew borders through parts of natural homelands.  There were methods to his madness but I cannot recall what the reasons were.  The best thing now is to encourage people to get along.

I read about some country that is part of the EU. They have some minority maybe  Hungarian. The country refused to teach the minority in their language. The EU said this was a human right and forced it. I think that Stalin drew the Ukrainian boundary through some mostly Russian areas. I think that Kharkov was traditionally Russian but Stalin drew the Ukrainian border east of it. Odessa was Russian but now Ukrainians view it as part of their sacred Ukrainian land and outlawed Russian in education, govt and commerce. They removed statutes of Catherine the great who founded the city.

I had some Italian guy David visiting some Sami speaking part of Russia but could not find them as Stalin had transported lots of Russians, Ukrainians, and Tartars who were dominant in that part he was in thanks to the gulags. The Sami speakers were mostly further south.

Many in the US know nothing of history and expect the rest of the world to be like the US. 21 of 22 Russian republics have at least one additional official language to Russian taught in public schools.

Bald and Bankrupt visited a country called Sokh. Sokh is an enclave inside a second country that is part of an external third country but speaks a different language from either two countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/So%CA%BBx_District
So?x District (also spelled as Sokh, Uzbek) ...  is a district of Uzbekistan's Fergana Region. It consists of two exclaves of Uzbekistan, surrounded by Kyrgyzstan. Despite being part of Uzbekistan, its population is almost entirely ethnic Tajiks. ...

Fun video for me.
https://youtu.be/34XymEDY9Wc?t=1500
Entering A Mysterious Exclave You've Never Heard Of ( In A Soviet Bi-plane )
 2,855,161 views  May 17, 2022
Earlier this year myself and Alina tried entering an Uzbek exclave surrounded entirely by Kyrgyzstan. If you saw the video you will know that we were not allowed in. But we don't give up that easy...And so when we discovered that there was a new flight route started up from Uzbekistan to the unknown exclave of Sokh we decided we would have to investigate and try to get in somehow to see what lay there beyond the mountains. Oh and it just happened to mean flying on an old Soviet bi-plane. How could anyone resists such an adventure?!


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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1203 on: January 10, 2023, 12:00:51 PM »

Some Ukrainians do not want Hungarians on their sacred land.

https://t.me/donbassinsider/28948
?? A topic I was just speaking about this same week, the terror campaign (https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/18506) against ethnic Hungarians in Transcarpathia:

??Ukrainian militants of the "Right Sector" threaten to massacre all Hungarians in Transcarpathia

??On New Year's Eve, several dozen Right Sector militants went to Transcarpathia to the city of Beregovo on the border with Hungary.

??There they wrote down the New Year's "congratulations" to all the Magyars. In their video message, these geeks do not hesitate to say that they know all the Hungarians, all their children, and they will come for them.

https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/18506
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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1204 on: January 10, 2023, 12:02:14 PM »
Quote
There were methods to his madness but I cannot recall what the reasons were.

He did it to split people off from each other, their brethren - language/customs/etc.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1205 on: January 10, 2023, 12:19:46 PM »
Thanks.
I also recall some book, Balkan Ghosts by Robert D. Kaplan (there is a different Robert Kaplan). He said that every hectare in the Balkans had 3 nations that once ruled that area during some period.  They all thought that things were as they should be in that period.

I only recently learned about the Russian republics teaching other official languages. I learned it from the video by a woman doing a doc on the typical day in a Russian school.

Some languages are dying off in favor of Russian.  Guys in the Sami language video said that Sami was taught if the parents wanted it so it was not mandatory.  That was the law in Ukrainians for Russians in Ukraine up until around 2015 as I recall, Then Ukrainians shut that down and even fined speaking Russian in commerce and shut down Russian language TV stations.

Eli from Russia is from Perm and her mother is upset that she lets her Tartar language skills lapse. She is non political. She was taught Russian and Tartar in public schools. Perm has the only remaining gulag, for historical purposes.

https://youtu.be/_F8TZvlzrNo
 Why do I speak 5 languages? | Russia's ethnic minority language, how I learned English & more
Eli from Russia
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1206 on: January 10, 2023, 03:13:17 PM »
The conquering Mongols and Alexander the Great also did not give a rats ass about languages and culture if enough spoke the ruling language and were OBEDIENT to their masters rule...

Guess that makes conquest and domination okie dokie...and the conquered should just drop to their knees and kiss their masters feet...

Good to know...

Best to be a conqueror than the conquered...
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1207 on: January 11, 2023, 08:37:17 AM »
Cracks in obedience...not all is well among cultures...

https://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,17784.new.html#new

...aka - it sucks when your master favors others, even outsiders...over you.

 ::smallestviolin::

Better get to boot lickin' before they decide it is easier to squish you outright!   ::oldman::

"indestructible brotherhood"

Does that come with a cool skull & knife club ring and a secret handshake?

 ::laughonfloor::
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1208 on: January 11, 2023, 10:11:40 AM »
The conquering Mongols and Alexander the Great also did not give a rats ass about languages and culture if enough spoke the ruling language and were OBEDIENT to their masters rule...

Guess that makes conquest and domination okie dokie...and the conquered should just drop to their knees and kiss their masters feet...

Good to know...

Best to be a conqueror than the conquered...

The reason lots of countries allow additional  official languages is not because they are nice. Language, culture, religion are important to many people. Why mess with them? What is the upside? Russia could go into the schools, destroy the non Russian  books, force the teachers to only teach in Russian, fine people for speaking non Russian in commerce and govt. Why would they do that?

That is what Ukraine govt has done inside Ukraine out of some hyper nationalism. What is the upside? Now they are seizing Ukrainian Orthodox churches, firing priests, etc. I saw some video on a Chechnya wedding. That republic is the most religious in the Russian federation and the religion is Islam. I suppose Russia could fire all the Islamic holy men and seize the mosques but what is the upside?

Strange culture. The groom does not attend the wedding.
https://youtu.be/JKZzaUPnefI
 Visiting the Chechen wedding | Code of honor, traditions and life of the Chechens
Eli from Russia

https://youtu.be/-OVuFTp2DZQ
 Chechnya Isn't What You'd Expect!
bald and bankr
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1209 on: January 11, 2023, 10:56:16 AM »
Upside - Your private band of Nazi's looting for Mother Russia!

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russias-wagner-touts-major-victory-over-salt-mining-town-donetsk

Conquest and domination...keep your language and schools and religion...just keep that knee bent.
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1210 on: January 12, 2023, 07:43:07 AM »
The conquering Mongols and Alexander the Great also did not give a rats ass about languages and culture if enough spoke the ruling language and were OBEDIENT to their masters rule...

Guess that makes conquest and domination okie dokie...and the conquered should just drop to their knees and kiss their masters feet...

Good to know...

Best to be a conqueror than the conquered...

Why did they do that?
Because it made sense.
Why screw things up? Kiev wanted to screw things up.
Kiev had lots to lose and little to gain with their hypernationality.
NN Taleb wrote about the history of Allepo. It was a very rich city as it lay on trade routes and the conquering Romans and Ottomans left them alone and extracted tribute.  They were not 'nice' but they were not idiots.

Then came the Baath party who micro managed and the wealthy merchants fled and the city went down the tubes.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1211 on: January 12, 2023, 08:30:33 AM »
The conquering Mongols and Alexander the Great also did not give a rats ass about languages and culture if enough spoke the ruling language and were OBEDIENT to their masters rule...

Guess that makes conquest and domination okie dokie...and the conquered should just drop to their knees and kiss their masters feet...

Good to know...

Best to be a conqueror than the conquered...

Why did they do that?
Because it made sense.
Why screw things up? Kiev wanted to screw things up.
Kiev had lots to lose and little to gain with their hypernationality.
NN Taleb wrote about the history of Allepo. It was a very rich city as it lay on trade routes and the conquering Romans and Ottomans left them alone and extracted tribute.  They were not 'nice' but they were not idiots.

Then came the Baath party who micro managed and the wealthy merchants fled and the city went down the tubes.

America isn't hypernational or anything close to it either...working wonders, isn't it?

/

Interesting that accepting conquered status isn't messed up...

#NotBuiltForDomination
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1212 on: January 12, 2023, 11:47:28 AM »
I agree with this characterization...sure, the Rus crapped the bed when they "banned" personal cell phone use and failed to provide secure means of homesick conscripts not thrilled about being put into the Ukraine theater to chat with their loved ones and it led to the devastating attack on forces and ammunition at the Makiivka, Donetsk Oblast base...but the insertion of Gerasimov to me indicates a renewed commitment to the war...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/01/ukraine-something-happening/

...and the Black Sea fleet sorties and Belarus buildup point to a larger push coming...and logically they cannot solidify territory in the Eastern side unless they apply pressure elsewhere...

I think as things begin to thaw...the theater gets a lot hotter.

Also, if those poor bastards in Soledar are going to be overrun...if they had any balls they'd rig the entire mine complex to blow instead of meekly skittering away and give the Rus a valuable prize...

Guess we'll find out soon enough...
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1213 on: January 12, 2023, 05:28:49 PM »

I do not follow the short term results for this war. Time will tell.
The Russians in the east do not want to accept domination either.
Kiev could have left well enough alone.
What do they gain besides screwing with Russians inside Ukraine?

The status quo prior to 2014 wasn't that bad as I understand things.
IMO different regions of Ukraine are different. Some have had majority Russians for hundreds of years then Stalin drew the boundaries to mess with people. Maybe the Russians were shipped to a city in box cars by Stalin in the 1930s. Some cities were mostly Russian then people from more western Ukraine moved east for economic opportunity.

Kiev could have left things as they were and taxed the east as they had. That is what the Romans and Ottomans did when they conquered.

IMO at least 100K Kiev troops are dead for no reason other than to be used by the US and NATO.

When I paid too much attention, on Mariupol, I listened to the locals on Telegram. I learned that there were two invasions. First troops from other parts of Ukraine invaded and dug in. Then they fought the invading Russians. Most of the people defending Mariupol were not from Mariupol. If you ask the locals they were liberated not conquered. The opposite opinion near Kiev. Time for a divorce.
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1214 on: January 12, 2023, 05:43:32 PM »
IMO this guy is often wrong but this is interesting. I never spent any time looking into Chechnya. Short history according to this guy. Weird place. I heard that the second Chechen war was very gentle compared to the first but did not understand that until now.

https://youtu.be/E-HexVRwEP4
Chechnya, a Real Challenge for Putin?

Eli from Russia reported on a wedding in Chechnya. Weird customs. She interviewed some local to see if the strange rumors were true. They were all true. These republics have much more autonomy than I realized.

https://youtu.be/JKZzaUPnefI
Visiting the Chechen wedding | Code of honor, traditions and life of the Chechens

https://youtu.be/UvbXg4vfG80
The real life in Grozny | Is Chechnya republic of Russia safe for traveling?
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1215 on: January 13, 2023, 09:50:55 AM »
Russian forces, who have reportedly suffered considerable losses on the front line, have now deployed additional units of the world’s most powerful mortar, which is capable of using a nuclear warhead on the battlefield.



https://www.zerohedge.com/military/russia-sends-its-biggest-gun-ukraine



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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1216 on: January 16, 2023, 11:44:53 AM »

H/T-WRSA@GAB

Answers the question "how many Russian army groups are needed for a sector of the front".

Also, was it last week or the previous week that Vlad called up another 500k draftees for the motherland's war effort?  More grist for the death-mill.

In other related news...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/german-defense-minister-resigns-criticism-over-ukraine-mounts

 ::smallestviolin::

Won't be the last...won't change a damn thing anyway...wave in the next moron...
« Last Edit: January 16, 2023, 01:20:59 PM by Libertas »
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1217 on: January 17, 2023, 08:54:49 AM »
https://www.zerohedge.com/military/belarus-russia-launch-2-weeks-joint-aerial-drills-making-western-allies-nervous

Meh.

The rabid cur Lukashenko has always agitated to join the carnage...not sure of the strength of the hand holding his leash, whoever that may be...

And the Rus have a history of using exercises to launch incursions and lying about it...

Not that that matters, we have drones, civilian spy craft and military spy craft patrolling from the Bosporus to along the Belarus and Russian border to the Gulf of Finland and to the edge of the Barents Sea...a Rus or his vassals cannot scratch their ass without it being documented...and those are the known knowns...the known unknowns are the satellites...the unknown unknowns are the only mystery...

But, given everybody's assets in-theater from said Barents Sea to Bosporus...and everybody's resistance to a peaceful resolution beyond obvious...a greater clash is inevitable...
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1218 on: January 18, 2023, 12:47:01 PM »
https://www.zerohedge.com/military/pentagon-forced-tap-unreported-ammo-stockpile-israel-support-ukraine

That there are caches is not new...there are lots...

What is stupid is drawing them down for the Gog/Magog sh*tshow...

And, it appears they/them got to Kissinger...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/kissinger-flips-says-ukraine-should-join-nato-davos-speech

...but then again it is a short walk for him back into that fold...

 ::mooning::

President Vladimir Putin said that victory in Ukraine is "unavoidable".
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/putin-victory-ukraine-unavoidable-invasion-was-effort-stop-war-donbas

Yup, the intractable positions of everyone in this sh*t-show is reason #1 why the war will continue and expand...

Enjoy the carnage...

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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1219 on: January 19, 2023, 08:51:05 AM »
Heh, Serbian government telling Brig Bro Slav to knock off the recruiting of their youth into the private Nazi ranks of Czar Vlad to throw into the Ukraine meat-grinder...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/serbia-demands-russia-halt-local-recruitment-ukraine-war

It's a crazy world...
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.