Author Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine (Read 88163 times)

patentlymn · « **Reply #1320 on:** March 04, 2023, 01:05:45 PM »

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard
Michail Gorbachev discussing German unification with Hans-Dietrich Genscher and Helmut Kohl in Russia, July 15, 1990. Photo: Bundesbildstelle / Presseund Informationsamt der Bundesregierung.

Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner

Slavic Studies Panel Addresses “Who Promised What to Whom on NATO Expansion?”

Libertas · « **Reply #1321 on:** March 06, 2023, 08:10:09 AM »

Verbal

patentlymn · « **Reply #1322 on:** March 06, 2023, 02:18:44 PM »

Apparently several western participants wrote down this stuff in their notes. Some later published or released.
So no official treaty but written down at the time. Maybe Baker published this stuff in a book?
I think some UK source recently released written UK notes from the meetings.
I heard that during the Cuban crisis the US made two oral promises that were kept.
Not sure if this is true.
1. Will not invade Cuba.
2. Will remove missiles from Turkey.

patentlymn · « **Reply #1323 on:** March 06, 2023, 06:50:56 PM »

Had youtube on
EU is buying lots of Russian oil, laundered through middle men and shadow fleets of tankers. Also from Russia through India. Russia supplied 40% of the worlds Uranium for nuke power.

Some people were dumb enough to stay behind when the Russians left Kherson. Voting in the referendum is collaboration says Kiev. Also they are not entitled to due process said Kiev.
https://t.me/ukr_leaks_eng/1653
SBU continues to "purge" the population of the Kherson region

The SBU suspects three more residents of the Kherson region of organizing and holding a referendum on the region's entry into Russia.

They were detained and now for "collaborative activities" they face up to 10 years in prison with confiscation of property, they reported (https://t.me/SBUkr/7371)in the SBU telegram channel.

"The security service exposed three more enemy henchmen during stabilization measures in the liberated areas of the Kherson region," the report says.

@ukr_leaks_eng

China made some sort of peace proposal. Instead of at least pretending to consider it the US 'diplomats' slammed the door in their face. Ever hear of saving face in Asian cultures? Geez.

Libertas · « **Reply #1324 on:** March 07, 2023, 02:18:34 PM »

Quote from: patentlymn on March 06, 2023, 02:18:44 PM

Apparently several western participants wrote down this stuff in their notes. Some later published or released.
So no official treaty but written down at the time. Maybe Baker published this stuff in a book?
I think some UK source recently released written UK notes from the meetings.
I heard that during the Cuban crisis the US made two oral promises that were kept.
Not sure if this is true.
1. Will not invade Cuba.
2. Will remove missiles from Turkey.

That was JFK, not LBJ...not Uncle Jimmuh, not Slick Willie, not Read My Lips...certainly not The Kenyan or FJB...

DJT never backtracked on his word, for that matter not even Nixon either...

Libertas · « **Reply #1325 on:** March 07, 2023, 02:21:46 PM »

Quote from: patentlymn on March 06, 2023, 06:50:56 PM

Had youtube on
EU is buying lots of Russian oil, laundered through middle men and shadow fleets of tankers. Also from Russia through India. Russia supplied 40% of the worlds Uranium for nuke power.

Some people were dumb enough to stay behind when the Russians left Kherson. Voting in the referendum is collaboration says Kiev. Also they are not entitled to due process said Kiev.
https://t.me/ukr_leaks_eng/1653
SBU continues to "purge" the population of the Kherson region

The SBU suspects three more residents of the Kherson region of organizing and holding a referendum on the region's entry into Russia.

They were detained and now for "collaborative activities" they face up to 10 years in prison with confiscation of property, they reported (https://t.me/SBUkr/7371)in the SBU telegram channel.

"The security service exposed three more enemy henchmen during stabilization measures in the liberated areas of the Kherson region," the report says.

@ukr_leaks_eng

China made some sort of peace proposal. Instead of at least pretending to consider it the US 'diplomats' slammed the door in their face. Ever hear of saving face in Asian cultures? Geez.

I commented on that...it was Russia's words in Mandarin...big shock...

If they were serious...like I said eons ago...interested parties could schedule a summitt, people show up or they don't...everything else is kabuki...

Once there someone can try kabuki, but proof is in the pudding...

Libertas · « **Reply #1326 on:** March 08, 2023, 11:11:58 AM »

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/watch-vast-expanse-us-military-hardware-positioned-polish-port

Russia builds up in Belarus...looks like Poland is NATO's favorite...

More verbal crap not worth its weight in scat...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/germanys-scholz-signals-assurances-china-wont-arm-russia

Bad Panda lies!

Bad Panda full of hot air...

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/china-threatens-us-conflict-and-confrontation-xi-issues-unusually-blunt-rebuke-us-policy

...they lust for conflict just like everybody else's dumbass government!

All signs point to mutual annihilation.

patentlymn · « **Reply #1327 on:** March 08, 2023, 03:49:54 PM »

Quote

"We all agree that there should be no arms deliveries, and the Chinese government has declared that it will not deliver any either," Scholz said at a press conference with European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, according to POLITICO. "We insist on this, and we are monitoring it."

I don't recall hearing China say that. They "insist" and will "monitor" it? Chinese get real touchy about other countries telling them what to do.

patentlymn · « **Reply #1328 on:** March 08, 2023, 03:54:09 PM »

Alex Christoforou said he knows who blew up the NS pipelines. Two guys with Trump hats who said "This is MAGA country" then blew up the pipelines.

Libertas · « **Reply #1329 on:** March 08, 2023, 04:29:13 PM »

Quote from: patentlymn on March 08, 2023, 03:49:54 PM

Quote
"We all agree that there should be no arms deliveries, and the Chinese government has declared that it will not deliver any either," Scholz said at a press conference with European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, according to POLITICO. "We insist on this, and we are monitoring it."

I don't recall hearing China say that. They "insist" and will "monitor" it? Chinese get real touchy about other countries telling them what to do.

Sure, most don't, but all do it. Bad Panda says US better not do this that and the other thing all the time...

Clown World

Libertas · « **Reply #1330 on:** March 08, 2023, 04:30:11 PM »

Quote from: patentlymn on March 08, 2023, 03:54:09 PM

Alex Christoforou said he knows who blew up the NS pipelines. Two guys with Trump hats who said "This is MAGA country" then blew up the pipelines.

Funny.

Sadly, there are mouth-breathing imbeciles and propagandists and statists ready and willing to run with that BS...

patentlymn · « **Reply #1331 on:** March 08, 2023, 05:35:30 PM »

Georgia (the country) is to pass a law requiring any NGO getting more than 20% of its funding for foreign sources to declare it and register as a foreign agent. Soros, YS, and others are butt hurt because that is how they subvert c countries.

https://t.me/heilukraine1959/3891

https://twitter.com/PeImeniPusha/status/1633227342305955842
🇪🇺 EU diplomat chief Borrell urged Georgia to uphold its commitment to democracy, the rule of law and human rights. According to him, the draft law on foreign agents is incompatible with the values of the EU and contradicts Georgia's goal of joining the union.

- But banning Russian media and sanctioning its citizens is absolutely ok in Europe, right?

patentlymn · « **Reply #1332 on:** March 08, 2023, 06:40:58 PM »

Expanded version
Georgia (the country) is to pass a law requiring any NGO getting more than 20% of its funding from foreign sources to declare it and register as a foreign agent. Soros, US, and others are butt hurt because that is how they subvert countries.

https://t.me/heilukraine1959/3891

https://twitter.com/PeImeniPusha/status/1633192784550133768

https://twitter.com/PeImeniPusha/status/1633227342305955842
🇪🇺 EU diplomat chief Borrell urged Georgia to uphold its commitment to democracy, the rule of law and human rights. According to him, the draft law on foreign agents is incompatible with the values of the EU and contradicts Georgia's goal of joining the union.

- But banning Russian media and sanctioning its citizens is absolutely ok in Europe, right?

https://twitter.com/PeImeniPusha/status/1633193117305262084
"Those responsible for cracking down on protests in Georgia could be subject to US sanctions. We have a range of tools to hold anyone in any country accountable for interfering with what is a universal human right."

-- State Department spokesman Ned Price

https://twitter.com/PeImeniPusha/status/1633192479364116480
Georgia is about to have its own Maidan. Thanks USA, you are about to try to destroy another sovereign nation.

https://twitter.com/PeImeniPusha/status/1633192784550133768
"The US does not exclude the possibility of imposing sanctions against representatives of the Georgian authorities due to the situation around the law on foreign agents"
-- State Department

https://twitter.com/PeImeniPusha/status/1633202550731055104
The President of Georgia, who is currently in the US, has promised to veto the law against foreign agents. This law has passed with overwhelming majority, DEMOCRATICALLY, 76 votes for, 13 against. But this is not democratic enough for the US and its puppet.

patentlymn · « **Reply #1333 on:** March 09, 2023, 06:37:31 AM »

Brian reports on the Georgia bill and US activities.
https://youtu.be/csSeU30VpgQ
Georgia Protests: US Seeks to Open 2nd Front Against Russia
- Protests in Georgia consist of US-backed opposition groups (literally waving US and EU flags) attempting to block a bill to increase transparency behind political groups to reduce foreign interference;

- The US has already once overthrown Georgia’s government in 2003, according to the London Guardian;

- By 2008 after flooding Georgia with weapons and training its military, Georgia attacked Russia, according to a EU investigation;

- The US seeks to stir up trouble in Georgia again to “extend” Russia as explained in detail by the RAND Corporation’s 2019 paper, “Extending Russia;”

- The US has pressured other nations attempting to pass bills to protect against foreign interference including recently Thailand;

Libertas · « **Reply #1334 on:** March 09, 2023, 08:34:53 AM »

I guess the DeepState gives a piss about yet another sh*thole...I don't give a piss who controls it...

patentlymn · « **Reply #1335 on:** March 09, 2023, 09:21:56 AM »

Garland Nixon went into the Blinken written book Ally vs Ally he wrote years ago.
In short, Eu wants USSR oil via pipeline. US does not want either USSR or Eu tg get more powerful and the US does not care about either one and will make up stories to justify opposing the pipeline.

I never read up on intentional relations.
Apparently US policy is to weaken other major powers often by punishing their allies. Any country that gets too friendly gets punished. This was known to everyone but me apparently.
One modern way is to fund NGO through US govt with nice names like the National Endowment for Democracy who do things the CIA used to do. That is why the US opposes the draft Georgian law about foreign funded NGOs.

The demonstrations in other countries require money and organization often provided by the US through NGOs. The Ukr Maidan protests lasted a long time and sucked up lots of US cash.
Brian Berletec goes into how the US funded NGOs operate in Thailand to subvert the govt which is reported as pro democracy. You can say this is good or bad but I did not know it happened.

Fast paced history special on US backed coups, or some of them.
He buys into Russiagate toward the end. Otherwise good.
What is interesting is the pattern which continues. The narrative for these regime change operations is almost always false and not the real reason. Now the US is messing around in Georgia, again the people there will suffer.
https://youtu.be/_wIOqHSsV9c

Libertas · « **Reply #1336 on:** March 09, 2023, 10:46:29 AM »

We're suffering from tyranny persecution and oppression here...the frack I care about Georgia?
Everybody has to deal with their own shizzle first and foremost...

patentlymn · « **Reply #1337 on:** March 09, 2023, 02:57:14 PM »

Quote from: Libertas on March 09, 2023, 10:46:29 AM

We're suffering from tyranny persecution and oppression here...the frack I care about Georgia?
Everybody has to deal with their own shizzle first and foremost...

I just never figured out how things worked before and Georgia is just a very recent example.
When I see a headline about some "pro democracy" demonstration somewhere I never give them much thought.
They might very well be US backed and paid for opposition groups intended to accomplish regime change or degrade some country we do not like. US pumped $5B into Ukraine for regime change years ago.

The Georgia protests are almost certainly paid for by US in order to cause problems for Russia. US armed and trained Georgian forces years ago and egged them on to attack some ethnic Russian enclave. Russia responded and it ended poorly for the Georgians. US proxies often get harmed.

The Georgians are protesting a law similar to US FARA laws. Some people want to know who is funding organizations inside Georgia. Some people want to hide that. Is American University in Georgia funded by US govt? US rightfully objects to foreign interference in US politics and rightfully booted the Confucius institutes.

Some US coups long ago were dressed up as pro democracy. BTW I am not saying all such coups are bad. Hawaii ended up well for the US. Also Guam? BUT .... some can blow back, like Iran and Nicaragua.

patentlymn · « **Reply #1338 on:** March 09, 2023, 05:12:13 PM »

After the ridiculous NYT story of how some Ukrainian partisans rented a Polish yacht and blew up the NS pipeline, Alex Christofrou has a new theory on who blew it up. Gilligan, the skipper, the millionaire and his wife, the movie star, and Mary Anne.

Libertas · « **Reply #1339 on:** March 10, 2023, 08:44:47 AM »

Quote from: patentlymn on March 09, 2023, 02:57:14 PM

Quote from: Libertas on March 09, 2023, 10:46:29 AM
We're suffering from tyranny persecution and oppression here...the frack I care about Georgia?
Everybody has to deal with their own shizzle first and foremost...

I just never figured out how things worked before and Georgia is just a very recent example.
When I see a headline about some "pro democracy" demonstration somewhere I never give them much thought.
They might very well be US backed and paid for opposition groups intended to accomplish regime change or degrade some country we do not like. US pumped $5B into Ukraine for regime change years ago.

The Georgia protests are almost certainly paid for by US in order to cause problems for Russia. US armed and trained Georgian forces years ago and egged them on to attack some ethnic Russian enclave. Russia responded and it ended poorly for the Georgians. US proxies often get harmed.

The Georgians are protesting a law similar to US FARA laws. Some people want to know who is funding organizations inside Georgia. Some people want to hide that. Is American University in Georgia funded by US govt? US rightfully objects to foreign interference in US politics and rightfully booted the Confucius institutes.

Some US coups long ago were dressed up as pro democracy. BTW I am not saying all such coups are bad. Hawaii ended up well for the US. Also Guam? BUT .... some can blow back, like Iran and Nicaragua.

IMO both of those suffered from incompetence and a lack of commitment. It is undeniable that both would have been better off without their radical cult/Marxist tyrannies. There were instances where both could have easily been flipped. And for Russia, many of their Marxist states survive as socialist dictatorships to this day in Africa, I am unconvinced that is a positive thing. Ask white South Africans and Zimbabweans for example.