Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine

[patentlymn]

I had this on in backround today and wrote down some timestamps.
Patrick Lancaster was in Novaya kakhova, in  Kherson oblast. on the east side of the river.

Some  local is asked how many were for Kiev/Russia. He says it used to be 50/50 now 90-95%, IMO because of the shelling and many pro Kiev left.
https://youtu.be/3Xjo6dZbrPw?t=2320

Driving around with the mayor.
https://youtu.be/3Xjo6dZbrPw?t=2823

Lady says over half support RU.
https://youtu.be/3Xjo6dZbrPw?t=3220

Lady is asked why Ukraine keeps shelling them. She says because of their anger. Because we keep living. This is consistent with everything I heard from years ago from both sides.
https://youtu.be/3Xjo6dZbrPw?t=3318

They go to a hospital. The machine translation is confusing. I think the patients requiring surgery are transported elsewhere because the hospital is getting shelled.
https://youtu.be/3Xjo6dZbrPw?t=3560

Anya talks about what changed after the US backed coup. FYI before the coup the language for children's education was  parental choice.
https://youtu.be/3Xjo6dZbrPw?t=3739

Mayor drives some more. More shelled hospital, schools closed because of shelling. IMP this is why CNN will not report from such places.
https://youtu.be/3Xjo6dZbrPw?t=4068

[Libertas]

When the openly stated Rus goal in Ukraine is in their exact terms to de-militarize and de-nazify...a certain amount of anger is matched...yes?

And, it invites more anger and policies based in anger...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ukraine-adopts-new-laws-requiring-public-places-be-de-russified

Far be it for anyone to dare suggest the Czar and Z to revisit their extremist aims and dial back the hatreds...but, history runs deep, as does ego...so no, there is no talking common sense, there is no ratcheting down the hatreds...expecting anything different is just totally unrealistic and ignorant.

[patentlymn]

I am not sure about the Baltics, but most of Europe de NAZIfied after WWII. There are lots of laws against advocating NAZI ideas and displaying NAZI symbols. Every now and then some US tourists will give the  Heil Hitler salute in front of a German war memorial. They get arrested and are adjudged ignorant rather than evil and get off with a  fine.

Lots of German NAZIs got into the post war west German govt but they had to bury the NAZI part. Depending on what day you ask them the Kiev govt is upset about the de NAZIfy part or deny NAZI ideology plays a strong role.

People motivated by NAZI ideology have long described certain other groups as sub humans or vermin. This certainly existed in 1930s Germany. Now people  in the west either deny that Kiev troops are NAZI motivated or blame such 2014 and earlier  hatred on the 2022 invasion.

In the video I posted, the Kherson oblast anesthesiologist Anya described the schooling changes around 2015 I believe. IMO the ethnic hatred preceded the 2022 invasion. It really ramped up after the coup.

I understand why Ukrainians would fight the soviets in WWII. They also chose to drink the NAZI cool aid and tossed maybe 10K civilians a week into ravines and many still worship Bandera who was behind the wet work. Many people in the west refuse to believe that people with Bandera/Hitler/SS tattoos might have a belief system that predates the 2022 invasion.

Jacob Dreizin linked to a video clip from a 2014 Kiev night club.  The US has been in many wars but I do not recall this being accepted public behavior in any of those wars, including WWII.

https://thedreizinreport.com/2022/10/21/suitcase-with-no-handle/

You ain’t seen nothin’, until you’ve seen the below video.

I’ve sat on this for a long time.

This is from an elite Kiev nightclub, 2014, shortly after the coup, revolution, or whatever you want to call it.

They are serving a cake with a Russian flag and a realistic, live-size “Russian infant”, lying on its back atop the flag.

The server cuts the baby from groin to head.  People love it.

One girl asks if the diaper is edible, another says she wants the tummy.

One guy jokes, “Putin, help!” while another shouts pleadingly, “Ruuuussia, Ruuuuussia!!!“…..

…..indicating the baby is the people of the Donbass (Donetsk and Lugansk) and other Russians or pro-Russians in southeast Ukraine, who were hoping for the Russian army to move in at that time.

There’s more than just a few people here, it’s packed.

Of course, like everyone in Kiev (back then, anyway), they’re all speaking Russian.

[Libertas]

Much worse going on in California, Chicago, Paris, London, Tehran, Gaza, Lebanon, China, North Korea, Venezuela...nobody cares about any of that either...

Let people behave like animals and they will...

[patentlymn]

I often have roku on or skim headlines. Lots of battling headlines over the past months about the coming Kiev spring offensive.  My impression was that it meant "we say this so you will keep sending up money, then we will move it out into the future." Then pro RU sources said that some sort of offensive was likely so that made me think it was likely.

Then Kiev announced a date certain for the offensive. What military does that? I was back to no offensive likely. Then very recently Kiev said no offensive because they had not received the promised weapons. Now the US says "yes you have." WTF is going on?

Now.
https://twitter.com/Spriter99880/status/1651329342230736897
Spriter
@Spriter99880
·
5h
Kyiv doubts the Pentagon's assessment that Ukraine received more than 98% of the promised military equipment from the West, Mikhail Podolyak, an adviser to the head of the presidential office of Ukraine, said.

https://twitter.com/Spriter99880/status/1650929419479916544
Spriter
@Spriter99880
·
Apr 25
Ukraine proposes to stop direct gas supplies from Russia to the European Union if the flows bypass the Ukrainian gas transportation system.

According to Kyiv, such sanctions will allow to suspend the operation of all other "pipeline routes that are now capable of transporting…

Poland could have been a connective country between RU and the west. Instead .....
Poland and Ukraine both think they are the center of the universe.

https://youtu.be/73S56Y3oFu4?t=1056

[Libertas]

First, it's brilliant to tell the opposition your military plans...   

...I guess that is what happens when you corrupt yourselves into a woke band of prancing perverts...

Second, to be fair to the Prancing Pentagon Puppets, technically they are right, they were "given" everything...

...it's up to Z to decide if he wants to admit what was peeled away in corruption or to swallow hard, launch the offensive with what trickled through the graft and suffer those consequences...

But, suffering is unavoidable...pick your flavor!

In the end it will be NATO vs the Rus...

[patentlymn]

More of the same stuff you will not see on western TV because western media are not allowed to cover this. More rocket kits on the civilian areas like Donetsk City. Since 2014.

https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday/1782
Ukraine forces open fire on center Donetsk again with BM-21 Grad rockets. City bus was hit burning alive and killing 7 civilians including children. Lets pray for them and families

https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday/1783
https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday/1784
https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday/1785
https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday/1786
Ukraine forces open fire on center Donetsk again with BM-21 Grad rockets. City bus was hit burning alive and killing 7 civilians including children. Lets pray for them and their families

https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday/1787
https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday/1788
At least 10 civilians injured as a result of a rocket hitting the traumatology hospital during the mass rocket barrage of Donetsk Donetsk that killed at least 7 including children and injured many

https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday/1789
 The Ministry of Health in Donetsk reports that as a result of today's shelling by Ukrainian forces, the only MRI machine in the DPR was damaged.
This is a huge problem at was there was a 2 month wait for an MRI

https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday/1790
More civilian vehicles destroyed during the mass rocket barrage of Donetsk by Ukrainian forces today that killed at least 7 including children and injured many

[patentlymn]

https://t.me/Reality_Theories/12215
https://t.me/Reality_Theories/12216
Another tragic day for the people of the Donbass. Another Ukrainian war crime (https://ingaza.wordpress.com/2022/08/10/what-ive-seen-of-ukraines-war-crimes-against-civilians-in-the-donbass-over-the-past-few-months/), slaughtering 9 civilians in Donetsk today, including one child, and injuring at least 16 more when Ukraine rained munitions down on residential areas of the city, once again.

Another burned-out bus, the working class civilians inside grotesquely burned alive (https://t.me/Reality_Theories/8900), to predictable and deafening international silence.

Another hospital bombed, to the silence of the very same Western corporate owned media who invented stories about Russia bombing hospitals in Mariupol and in Syria. Last June when Ukraine bombed a Donetsk maternity hospital (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsLWcR21iK8), the same crocodile-tears media didn't give a sh*t, nor did they when terrorists in Syria destroyed (https://ingaza.wordpress.com/2021/03/26/western-media-quick-to-accuse-syria-of-bombing-hospitals-but-when-terrorists-really-destroy-syrian-hospitals-they-are-silent/) & occupied hospitals in Aleppo, Dara'a and elsewhere.

Ukraine's shells also hit the sculpture park I walked in some days ago. At the time, I thought: it's quiet now, lovely...but I know Ukraine's shelling has targeted here before & will again.

Likewise, along stretches of Artema street, including a hospital treating war-wounded.

After filming at the ghastly site of the corpse-ridden bus, filming the damage to the hospital, I walked along Artema again, as I had several calm days ago, filming remnants of today's carnage.

That's how it goes here, how it has been here for nine years: one moment it is a relative calm and children, families, couples, elderly are strolling on sidewalks, walking or working in markets, praying at church...and the next minute, Ukrainian terrorism (that is the only appropriate word for this repeated targeting with precision weapons of civilian areas) strikes civilian areas, tear bodies apart, kills aspiring ballerinas, and litters horrific mines that mutilate limbs (https://ingaza.wordpress.com/the-donbass-my-articles-videos-interviews-from-on-the-donetsk-lugansk-peoples-republics-2019-present/).

I won't apologize for being graphic. I'm not being graphic enough, in fact (https://t.me/Reality_Theories/8801). Bottom line: the people here do not have a choice as to whether they will have their foot blown off by a Ukrainian-delivered Petal mine, or will have their bodies mangled by Ukrainian shelling of civilian areas.

[Libertas]

All Uke attacks...no Russian?  I hear the Rus took out an apartment building full of people...Pro-Rus media just as biased as any...

War, kill or be killed...

[patentlymn]

The Russians may have blown up an apartment building. Or not. There is such a thing as objective reality. Early on in the war I recall reading that a rocket attack intended to hit a surface target was knocked off course and hit a different target. I also recall reading that some rocket intended to knock down an incoming rocket landed on an unintended target.

Now any such explosion is described as an intended target by Russia. I had roku on while half asleep. I heard that some S300 hit a surface target and Kiev said it was Russian S300 changed to hit surface targets. IMO Russia has plenty of rockets to do that job and I know that Kiev has been using S300s to knock down Russian incoming and jets.

Kiev continues to say that Russia is attacking Russian held areas like the Zap nuclear plant and Donetsk City and the western press repeats this as fact. No more objective reality. This could be cleared up by some on site investigation and this has been done in areas like Donestsk City but by independents.  The Donetsk City targets and the like are residential non military targets. That is why western MSM are not sent there.

You can learn a lot by listening. I did a lot of that early on, not much recently as it is time consuming. Let's say it is propaganda and the resulting of brain washing. You don't have to buy into the propaganda to learn from it.

Here is the Donbass propaganda coming from the mouths of the the people there. "The people in western Ukraine are Slavic brothers, not much different from us. They have been hijacked by an evil ideology and want to drive us off the land. I wish they would top shelling us."

Here is the Kiev propaganda. "The people in the Donbass are subhuman Russian vermin that should be driven off our sacred land. They are nothing like us." I read some Kiev mid level doctor say that Russian POWs should be castrated. He later walked it back after some push back as it was bad PR. I have seen mom's film their 5 year old kid on social media saying when he grows up he wants to kill Russians. I saw some Ukrainian woman in Europe with a bullhorn calling for Russian children to be killed so they cannot grow up to be soldiers. I posted that 2014 Kiev scene of cutting up a Russian baby cake.

The ideology that influenced Kiev long predates the 2022 Russian invasion and explains the reasons for their attack on the Russian east. If I wrote that there was an ideology in 1930s Germany that promoted a group superiority, called others subhumans and vermin, and called for taking over their land people would not push back.  Now many people refuse to believe it. When the Mariupol POWs removed their shirts maybe 10-20% had NAZI tattoos. Apparently they were at least tolerated. Try that in the German or US military and see what happens.

Later Kiev POWs complained that the AZOV POWs were being exchanged but not them.

[Libertas]

Well, who is the biggest operator in theater?

Victors write the "history", anything the defeated say will be "propaganda" and the victor gets the spoils...

SSDD

And now all on the "winning" side are happy...Vlad's Nazi's are bitching about munitions...

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/wagner-chief-threatens-quit-bakhmut-unless-his-men-get-more-munitions

Nothing like unhappy Nazi's...

[patentlymn]

He strikes me as a politician maybe with future ambitions. I learned he has zero military experience and zero command authority.

If you resurrected some Roman general they would understand the German and Japanese motivations for WWII. They would not understand the Kiev motivations in this war at all. For whatever reasons, most of the economic wealth was generated in the Donbass. I heard of Kiev as being an administrative and extractive center like Wash DC.

The smart money is on acting like the Romans and exacting tribute and leaving them alone. As I understand it, Romans allowed locals to practice their religions and speak their languages as long as they sent tribute to Rome. Kiev wanted to crush the language, culture, and lately religion of the Donbass. That don't pay the bills. There is no upside to Kiev from all this. If they continued to attack the Russians in the east there would be Russian reaction sooner or later and this is all downside for Kiev. Being a tool of the US is all downside in the long term, after the money runs out.

When the Roman governor crushed the British Boutica rebellion he was sacked for stirring things up and almost ruining a good thing. Kiev really messed things up. The status quo wasn't so bad. In the long run trade with Russia was a good thing, as they cut Ukraine good deals in many ways for strategic reasons. One example was gas prices. Now Poland and some other countries will not even allow in Ukrainian grain. Some friends.

This guy is harsh. Maybe he was correct back in 2013 as someone said.
https://t.me/heilukraine1959/4883

Here is Russian propaganda but I think it is accurate. The US is using Ukraine to harm Russia just as US SECDEF Austin said.
https://rumble.com/v27nfoi-ukrainian-piglet-15-piglet-taken-advantage-of-by-us-and-discarded.-english.html

https://rumble.com/v27nhbo-us-uncle-sam-fights-russia-using-ukrainian-piglet.html

[Libertas]

He strikes me as a politician maybe with future ambitions. I learned he has zero military experience and zero command authority.

If you resurrected some Roman general they would understand the German and Japanese motivations for WWII. They would not understand the Kiev motivations in this war at all. For whatever reasons, most of the economic wealth was generated in the Donbass. I heard of Kiev as being an administrative and extractive center like Wash DC.

The smart money is on acting like the Romans and exacting tribute and leaving them alone. As I understand it, Romans allowed locals to practice their religions and speak their languages as long as they sent tribute to Rome. Kiev wanted to crush the language, culture, and lately religion of the Donbass. That don't pay the bills. There is no upside to Kiev from all this. If they continued to attack the Russians in the east there would be Russian reaction sooner or later and this is all downside for Kiev. Being a tool of the US is all downside in the long term, after the money runs out.

When the Roman governor crushed the British Boutica rebellion he was sacked for stirring things up and almost ruining a good thing. Kiev really messed things up. The status quo wasn't so bad. In the long run trade with Russia was a good thing, as they cut Ukraine good deals in many ways for strategic reasons. One example was gas prices. Now Poland and some other countries will not even allow in Ukrainian grain. Some friends.

This guy is harsh. Maybe he was correct back in 2013 as someone said.
https://t.me/heilukraine1959/4883

Here is Russian propaganda but I think it is accurate. The US is using Ukraine to harm Russia just as US SECDEF Austin said.
https://rumble.com/v27nfoi-ukrainian-piglet-15-piglet-taken-advantage-of-by-us-and-discarded.-english.html

https://rumble.com/v27nhbo-us-uncle-sam-fights-russia-using-ukrainian-piglet.html

 

Many defeated feel the same throughout history!  Has such bold positive inspiring zeal to it!

[Libertas]

In other news...the bifurcation of the world into separate hegemons picks up pace...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/five-arab-states-plus-iran-among-19-nations-ready-join-brics

Pick your Emperor...things like this have happened throughout history...and it always leads to conflict...

And "winners" don't often have a long shelf life before the next force arises and topples their throne...

People being stupid, petty, greedy, envious, craven and selfish means this cycle is likely to ever be broken...

[patentlymn]

He strikes me as a politician maybe with future ambitions. I learned he has zero military experience and zero command authority.

If you resurrected some Roman general they would understand the German and Japanese motivations for WWII. They would not understand the Kiev motivations in this war at all. For whatever reasons, most of the economic wealth was generated in the Donbass. I heard of Kiev as being an administrative and extractive center like Wash DC.

The smart money is on acting like the Romans and exacting tribute and leaving them alone. As I understand it, Romans allowed locals to practice their religions and speak their languages as long as they sent tribute to Rome. Kiev wanted to crush the language, culture, and lately religion of the Donbass. That don't pay the bills. There is no upside to Kiev from all this. If they continued to attack the Russians in the east there would be Russian reaction sooner or later and this is all downside for Kiev. Being a tool of the US is all downside in the long term, after the money runs out.

When the Roman governor crushed the British Boutica rebellion he was sacked for stirring things up and almost ruining a good thing. Kiev really messed things up. The status quo wasn't so bad. In the long run trade with Russia was a good thing, as they cut Ukraine good deals in many ways for strategic reasons. One example was gas prices. Now Poland and some other countries will not even allow in Ukrainian grain. Some friends.

This guy is harsh. Maybe he was correct back in 2013 as someone said.
https://t.me/heilukraine1959/4883

Here is Russian propaganda but I think it is accurate. The US is using Ukraine to harm Russia just as US SECDEF Austin said.
https://rumble.com/v27nfoi-ukrainian-piglet-15-piglet-taken-advantage-of-by-us-and-discarded.-english.html

https://rumble.com/v27nhbo-us-uncle-sam-fights-russia-using-ukrainian-piglet.html

 

Many defeated feel the same throughout history!  Has such bold positive inspiring zeal to it!

I mentioned the Romans to show how some groups do not seek to stupidly stir things up for no good reason. Kiev did. NN Taleb described how Allepo flourished under different rulers as they were left alone and just had to pay tribute. It took the modern  Baath party to micromanage them into a degraded poorer state.

The status quo within the boundaries of modern day Ukraine had ethnic Russians in the east and Crimea following Russian culture, teaching mostly Russian to their kids, and practicing eastern orthodox religion as they had for around 200 years. The status quo in the central and western Ukraine had a ethnic Ukrainians speaking a mix of languages and doing their own thing. Pres. Zelensky speaks Russian as his native tongue and his Ukrainian kinda sucks, for example. It wasn't so bad. There is something to be said for getting along. The Soviet Union both oppressed people and kept them from slaughtering each other.

The ethnic Russians did not move into a country Ukraine. They established trading and military outposts in areas with low pop density just as others did elsewhere hundreds of years ago. Much later the USSR drew lines to include them within a vassal sate part of USSR they named Ukraine. In modern times some ethnic Ukrainians migrated east for economic reasons. They inter married.

This is similar to how the  Kurds came to reside in Syria/Turkey/wherever. They did not invade Syria etc. Someone drew lines on a map around them and some proclaimed them "Syrians." .

Things did not heat up in modern Ukraine until a political group with an affection for swastikas discovered their inherent superiority and the US was only too happy to use them and use them up. They were first supported in the Kiev and western Ukr  area by the US from 1946-53 to degrade the USSR, but later fled to the west or were first sent to gulags, then later freed to move back to the Kiev region or the west.

Listen to US SECDEF Austin sometime.

[patentlymn]

In other news...the bifurcation of the world into separate hegemons picks up pace...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/five-arab-states-plus-iran-among-19-nations-ready-join-brics

Pick your Emperor...things like this have happened throughout history...and it always leads to conflict...

And "winners" don't often have a long shelf life before the next force arises and topples their throne...

People being stupid, petty, greedy, envious, craven and selfish means this cycle is likely to ever be broken...

I have not dug into the BRICS thing.  My impression is that it is a trading block but without having to swear fealty to some cultural ideals. IMO the BRICS countries have nothing in common other than a desire to trade. I'll bet the Chinese try to cut themselves a good deal in all their deals.  In the EU countries have to kiss the globohomo ring of power.

The Chinese have a long history of being traders, merchants, and hustlers.

[Libertas]

In other news...the bifurcation of the world into separate hegemons picks up pace...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/five-arab-states-plus-iran-among-19-nations-ready-join-brics

Pick your Emperor...things like this have happened throughout history...and it always leads to conflict...

And "winners" don't often have a long shelf life before the next force arises and topples their throne...

People being stupid, petty, greedy, envious, craven and selfish means this cycle is likely to ever be broken...

I have not dug into the BRICS thing.  My impression is that it is a trading block but without having to swear fealty to some cultural ideals. IMO the BRICS countries have nothing in common other than a desire to trade. I'll bet the Chinese try to cut themselves a good deal in all their deals.  In the EU countries have to kiss the globohomo ring of power.

The Chinese have a long history of being traders, merchants, and hustlers.

The ChiCom's will call the shots for what really matters...any of the others thinking differently are fooling themselves...

Let them learn...

[Libertas]

Wow, Russians suck at this false flag crap even worse than bungling Marxist-allied DeepState assholes here!

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/putin-targeted-terrorist-assassination-attempt-drones-kremlin

Yeah, slow-moving target, dead of night, looks very short-range...camera in perfect view...and supposedly Czar Vlad camps out on the top of that dome at this time of night for sh*t 'n giggles...

 

Yeah, whatever...

The Kremlin says two drones were sent by Ukraine in an overnight attack on Moscow and on government buildings which it sees as an attempt to assassinate President Vladimir Putin.

A Kremlin press statement called it a "planned terrorist attack" against Putin directly, and says Russia has a right to respond "where and when it deems necessary".

You're going to do that anyway without this Borscht League stunt...man up you pansies!

Is Medvedev frothing at the mouth and wanting to let loose the nukes? 

[Libertas]

I don't often disagree with Sundance, but he thinks it was Ukraine or CIA (US)...frankly, this is so weak I have a hard time believing that...

You want to earn retribution...there should be something substantial...

https://twitter.com/DavidBCollum/status/1653747346797219841

Yup

[patentlymn]

It was an assassination attempt on Putin! If he was strapped to the flag pole.

I would guess it is a "symbolic" attack by Kiev but not for attribution. I recall there have been some in the past. However, wouldn't it have to be launched close up?