It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => TEOTWAWKI => Topic started by: Weisshaupt on February 12, 2013, 08:52:50 PM
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So.. now that we have purchased the Hobby Farm(let) , we are looking at tractors. The general idea is we are going to try our hands at no-till farming, probably using a 4' or 5' Kasco No till drill. (http://www.kascomfg.com/_products/_drills_seeders/VERSA-DRILL%20LITERATUREs.pdf) So that puts me in need of something that can pull it, and still be useful for snow, moving hay, mucking animal stalls, and general farm work. There is only 4 acres of growing area, and smaller is better because we can use the area a bit more effectively.. so I am thinking something in the 25-30hp range with a tred base of around 48 inches.
Does anyone have any strong opinions on tractors for this application? ( I asked this same question in a tractor forum, got one guy who PM'd me and told me to forget the whole idea because famring isn't fun or a "hobby"- Thank a Democrat buddy. I have to eat..is not like I WANT to do this... )
Right now I am looking at the Kubota 2620 (http://www.kubota.com/product/B2320/B2320.aspx) and the Kioti CK27(also sold as Bobcat and other brands..) (http://www.kioti.com/products/tractors/ck-series/ck27-hst/)
The Kubota is smaller and lighter (by half) - and costs about $3 less, and Kubota is one of the few brands that makes all its parts in house ( and I believe for the most part in the US) and has an excellent reputation. The Kioti is made in Korea, and seems to have gained a reputation for being a pretty solid machine as well. I am leaning toward the Kioti because it just seems to have more bang for the buck- lifting power etc.. Opinions?
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How much do they go for?
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I've only heard good things about the Kubotas.
Can't remember the name but there's a tractor made in India that's supposed to be pretty good too
I am the other way.
I have a 1949 Farmall Cub.
My dad farmed a 90 acre farm his first one
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We used to have an International made in the early 60s. I think it was built in England. I enjoyed using it, though all I ever used it for was bush hogging and tilling up bare spots for seeding. Never any serious agricultural work.
Maybe your best bet would be to go for an old tractor like that? In the same mind as the other thread about ditching EFI on cars, it might be best to have a totally "dumb" tractor.
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Totally dumb 8N is a good worker but it's not set up for a front end loader; however, the Jubilee is. The Jubilee also has overhead valves, ample hp, and a modern distributor.
And the N series have hardened valves for "white gas"; not certain about the Jubilees.
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I've only heard good things about the Kubotas.
Can't remember the name but there's a tractor made in India that's supposed to be pretty good too
I am the other way.
I have a 1949 Farmall Cub.
My dad farmed a 90 acre farm his first one
Mahindra or something like that.I think Northern tool sells them under a different label.a lot of the parts are American made.
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Actually the guy who sold me my place tried to sell me his '58 Ford model 801 - but he wanted twice what I think it might have been worth. (Basically wanted the fully restored, parade condition price for it. ) Problem is I really have never been mechanically inclined. I can do basic maintenance, but I fear the trials an older tractor (http://adaptivecurmudgeon.wordpress.com/2011/08/01/sherlock-holmes-and-the-ailing-tractor-part-i/) may present to me, and I don't know enough to be able to judge the condition of a tractor even if I were willing to take the jump to an antique. I really don't want any "tractor of the damned" stories of my own - especially if I am depending on it. No, it won't survive an EMP hit, but (bio) diesel will probably be available in some quantity, and its only 4 Acres. I could probably do the whole thing with Oxen if I needed to.
A working "antique" tractor will run a lot less. A Ford 8N about $3000, Jubilee around $4000, 60's International around $6K - however MichelleO , who is small in stature, needs to be comfortable on it. Since she expects me to be at my "day job" ( whatever that turns out to be) see want to be able to hook up implements herself, so we need the telescoping 3 point hitch etc, and she has safety concerns (legitimate or no) - as a result, as prudent as an antique might be, its probably not in my future. Modern features like cruise control and power steering also make the job easier. If left to her own devices she would be getting something that looked more like a riding lawn mower with a FEL than a tractor. Took making her call Kasco before she believed me that the no-till-drill she wanted required more power and a tractor heavy enough you can use the 3 point hitch to lift it. (For the curious - the 4' drill needs 25 hp, the 5' 30hp, and the 6' 35-40hp)
The tractors I am looking at run retail between 15-20K with FEL. The B series Kubota is about 14K MSRP. The Kioti is 18K MSRP. The Bobcat 225 is essentially the same tractor as the Kioti, and since Bobcat is ending their OEM agreement and exiting the tractor business, you can try to get a deal on them.. currently selling round here for around 16K. The No-till Drill we are after runs around 7K. My buddy bought a land's Pride 6' no-till-drill for 14K last year. Its now 18K IF you can find one to buy.
Bottom line is farm equipment (including those antiques) is going up in price, has been for the last few years, and we all know the reason and it isn't because Farming is so lucrative.
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What are you planning to grow on this 4 acres?Or better yet how much are you planning to grow?Any livestock?
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Mahindra or something like that.I think Northern tool sells them under a different label.a lot of the parts are American made.
The NT tractors are Chinese - Jinma. Cheaper, but my understanding is they are a "little rough" and intolerant of lazy maintenance. You get what you pay for...
Mahindra is getting at least some of its tractors from TYM, another Korean manufacturer similar to Kioti.
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What are you planning to grow on this 4 acres?Or better yet how much are you planning to grow?Any livestock?
Michelle is the Subject Matter Expert on that, but we are both complete newbies. We are by nature suburban mice. We like the city. We like the country. We have really never lived in either. So if it looks like we are babes lost in the woods with these plans, there is a reason...
My limited understanding is there will be 4 fields of about an acre each. They will be planted with cover crops (a mix of various species -- lentil, chickpea, peanut, soybean, cowpeas, corn, millet,oats, wheat, turnips, radishes, sunflower, clover, beets and sugarbeets) and grazed in rotation with actual food crops for human and hoof (rye/alfalfa for grazing) (oats, 1/3 acre wheat , 1/2 acre of corn) The whole point of "no-till" is that you plant things together that feed you, the animals and the soil all at the same time. Yes, its tricky. Yes, harvest is more labor intensive. This isn't a commercial venture. This is "finding a way to sustain yourself and livestock on 5 acres of land"
There will also be a traditional kitchen vegetable garden of about 25 x 25 feet There are many established fruit trees on the property as well.
5 Acres just isn't much and there is part of me that wants to buy a 20-80 acre farm somewhere else .. but I think that ship sailed. When the govt planned famine hits, they may well use it to confiscate "farmland" - I hope my little 5 acre parcel is not deemed worth the trouble.
so there is a separate 1/2 area where livestock will be penned at night, and set out to graze when appropriate. There may also be opportunities to work with my neighbors to lease land for grazing from them as both have +100 acre plots.
As far as livestock, we plan to start with Chickens and implement a "chicken tractor" to move them from location to location. My Daughter of course still wants a horse, and that will likely come to pass in a year or two. Rabbits have been considered, but MichelleO is allergic. She thinks it would be okay, but I don't want to push it. We have also been looking at Yaks - there are a lot of benefits to the animal, and of course there are those trying to get an Alpaca like ponzi thing going. You can usually get enough fiber off of them in a year to pay for feed, they birth easy, can be used as pack animals, foodies want the meat ( but there is usually little to be had as breeding stock is more valuable - people are still trying to build herds here) and even make good guard dogs- and will charge at strangers. They do need to be "imprinted" at birth with human contact for them to be docile. Yaks will also do better if I end up retreating to the mountain location.
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Not trying to convince you to go my way, Weisshaupt.
For a Cub, you can probably look to pay $1000 for a fixer-upper and under $3000 for a restored one
I am a mechanical dunce.
My Cub had not run in probably 20 years.
I decided to tackle it.
I didn't restore the tractor but wanted a working piece of machinery
Being timid, it took a while to get it running but I knew there wasn't too much wrong with it
I found an excellent forum of Cub owners that patiently helped me every step of the way
I also happened to have all the implements but not sure if I can use a front loader
FYI
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In general, 5 acres should be plenty
We all would like more
I have 3 acres with approx 1 wooded and house garage and lawn take up about another 1/2
I have 3 gardens that total approx 10 K sq ft.
I have chickens in a coop.
Looking to add pigs this spring and, possibly, a couple meat goats a little later and try fruit trees again.
I could get serious about rabbits except my daughter says we can't eat them.
(Rabbit is good. Yum)
I think I still have enough room to raise a lot of my animal feed
I'm almost a newbie like you with one difference.
I was around all this stuff but am 50 years removed from it.
Wish I would have paid more attention
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Not trying to convince you to go my way, Weisshaupt.
Unfortunately it isn't me that needs convincing. We are short of coin and I would love to own a antique tractor just cause. If they are still running now, they were good designs. Probably better than any I have before me new.
Haven't convinced her pigs are a good idea yet either..
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In general, 5 acres should be plenty
We all would like more
I have 3 acres with approx 1 wooded and house garage and lawn take up about another 1/2
I have 3 gardens that total approx 10 K sq ft.
I have chickens in a coop.
Looking to add pigs this spring and, possibly, a couple meat goats a little later and try fruit trees again.
I could get serious about rabbits except my daughter says we can't eat them.
(Rabbit is good. Yum)
I think I still have enough room to raise a lot of my animal feed
I'm almost a newbie like you with one difference.
I was around all this stuff but am 50 years removed from it.
Wish I would have paid more attention
The best part of pigs is that they eat anything You can get any grocery store scraps or restaurant scraps and bakery scraps and they will do fine with it till you're about ready to butcher them and at that point you grain feed them for a month and say goodbye.
Rabbits will eat hard bread and hay along with feed and they only stay with you for a few months and to the freezer they go. Goats will eat any and all things they have a mind to. My point it it has to be economical as well as practical depending on the room you have.
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The best part of pigs is that they eat anything
I figure they're a good way to get rid of bodies, if needed,too.
Weisshaupt, I can relate to the coin situation and that's why I do what I do.
I was fortunate to already have the tractor. Just needed to get it running
(http://Betsy.jpg)
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If the both of y'all are newbies, especially MichelleO, you want power steering. I don't know about the others but those Fords were designed for farmers and will break your arm or better. Get whatever you want but get power steering.
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If the both of y'all are newbies, especially MichelleO, you want power steering. I don't know about the others but those Fords were designed for farmers and will break your arm or better. Get whatever you want but get power steering.
There are a number of desirable features to be found on the new machines. 4WD, better hydraulics and controls, easier 3 point hitches, nicer seats, Roll bars, better fuel efficiency and so forth. In the end we both have to be able to use it or it won't be any good to us. I got Monday off, and we may go into the dealership and drive a few around and see what works. Ultimately, like most things, this purchase will largely come own to what the wife wants.
I showed her the picture of AP's tractor.. she wasn't impressed.
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The nerve of her.
Not being impressed with Betsy
She could use some cosmetics but when MichelleO is 64, she might too
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When I went tractor shopping, I was really looking for older Fords of the type that has been mentioned. When I found one that was priced right, my wife informed me I had used the tractor money as a down payment on her new car. Silly me. ::bashing:: I said f*^k it and bought a new Kubota 3200. Nice tractor and should last a life time, but the parts (compared to the Fords) are relatively expensive.
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The nerve of her.
Not being impressed with Betsy
She could use some cosmetics but when MichelleO is 64, she might too
::speechless:: ::hysterical:: ::exitstageleft::
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When I went tractor shopping, I was really looking for older Fords of the type that has been mentioned. When I found one that was priced right, my wife informed me I had used the tractor money as a down payment on her new car. Silly me. ::bashing:: I said f*^k it and bought a new Kubota 3200. Nice tractor and should last a life time, but the parts (compared to the Fords) are relatively expensive.
I need to get her up on a few, but I am beginning to suspect that the smaller form factor of the Kubota B series is going to win. The only thing that worries me is the weight.. the B2620 only weighs 1500 lbs. The Kasco weights 700lbs.. .. granted the FEL adds some weight (700lbs) and will help to counter balance it, but it would be nice if the 3 point could lift it without making the whole thing "tippy" Compare that to the Kioti /Bobcat at 3000lbs
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I also had a summer job doing landscaping when I was in college, and we used a Cub Cadet with a 3 cylinder diesel. It was a really nice machine with power steering, 4 wheel drive, multiple reverse gears and all that. It was a fairly compact tractor that would be ideal for a 4-5 acre plot. I think they were actually made by some Japanese company...Yanmar? Something like that. Anyway, just another brand worth considering.
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I know 1 person that has the B model Kubota. Like you suspect, he says it's VERY limited to what it can do. He has numerous attachments and a front end loader, so it can do quite a bit, just not a lot at one time.
Since I have a trailer, I plan on using his front end loader every chance I need. ::devil::
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I also had a summer job doing landscaping when I was in college, and we used a Cub Cadet with a 3 cylinder diesel. It was a really nice machine with power steering, 4 wheel drive, multiple reverse gears and all that. It was a fairly compact tractor that would be ideal for a 4-5 acre plot. I think they were actually made by some Japanese company...Yanmar? Something like that. Anyway, just another brand worth considering.
There is a dealer round here who sells the small stuff, and he can get the big stuff - but doesn't "carry" it in stock.. so I am worried about service etc.
Basically Yanmar makes the JDs now. Of course, JD puts the paint on. I hear its unique green color comes from them using real money in the paint. That is why they are so expensive.
So expensive I didn't even look at or consider JDs. You want to sell Cadillac tractors that is fine,but you are pricing yourselves out of a lot of the market.
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I know 1 person that has the B model Kubota. Like you suspect, he says it's VERY limited to what it can do. He has numerous attachments and a front end loader, so it can do quite a bit, just not a lot at one time.
Since I have a trailer, I plan on using his front end loader every chance I need. ::devil::
I am planning on doing all I can to convince the wife that the Bobcat/Kioti is the way to go. They have adjustable steering wheels, so hopefully that makes all the difference. PLus I can start her out on the 27 hp - If I get get her to accept the size, then I just have to talk her into upping the HP to a full 34. ..
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I also had a summer job doing landscaping when I was in college, and we used a Cub Cadet with a 3 cylinder diesel. It was a really nice machine with power steering, 4 wheel drive, multiple reverse gears and all that. It was a fairly compact tractor that would be ideal for a 4-5 acre plot. I think they were actually made by some Japanese company...Yanmar? Something like that. Anyway, just another brand worth considering.
There is a dealer round here who sells the small stuff, and he can get the big stuff - but doesn't "carry" it in stock.. so I am worried about service etc.
Basically Yanmar makes the JDs now. Of course, JD puts the paint on. I hear its unique green color comes from them using real money in the paint. That is why they are so expensive.
So expensive I didn't even look at or consider JDs. You want to sell Cadillac tractors that is fine,but you are pricing yourselves out of a lot of the market.
That reminds me of a story I heard when I took Agriculture as an elective in the 9th grade. Apparently there was some township in the northeast where the town had bought a new backhoe to dig the graves in the public cemetery. It was a Kubota and being in big labor union territory the locals pitched a fit about the town getting a Japanese backhoe. They raised such a stink that the town was basically forced to replace it with a John Deere, which made all the belly achers happy. It was sometime after all that that an inconvenient fact emerged: the Japanese-brand Kubota was built in the USA and the American-brand John Deere was built in Japan.
I always think of that story when I read anything in the news about unions.
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Bought the Tractor today.. Went to the only Kioti dealer close to me-- on Google Street it looked like a small used car dealership..with little inventory. But this same company has been advertising deals on the Bobcats on Craiglist for months now though, so I decided to look in since I had today off.
They had a kid out there who was just setting up a row of Kioti's to sell freash from the crates. Same kid stopped what he was doing and put on his salesman hat. . I missed the deals on the Bobcats.. They were selling the CT235 with loader for $19K. - There was one on the lot-- but it was already sold. They had bought a bunch from other dealers (and sent out an ad when they did saying so..) and they just sold really quickly at the price they were asking. Michelle drove one of the Kiotis around and it was all good. So we ended up with the Kioti equivalent with a front end loader. I told them I was hoping to get closer to that 19K number and the Kid did the "Let me check with my manager and see what we can do" - and I am thinking "man I hate this part." And I was getting ready to tell the kid he had Three trips and then we walk..)
Then this old guy, who turns out to be the manager, comes in, and drops a number on the table saying "that is the best I am willing to do" with such sincerity I was actually inclined to believe him. He said he was selling the Bobcats cheaper because Bobcat was giving a $2000 rebate + Free FEL offer to basically liquidate the remaining stock. Young kid was fine, but I liked the old guy. Said he used to own a Ford Dealership but liked selling tractors better because you get a better class of customer. If you are buying a tractor, you probably have land, know pretty much what you want, and have probably figured out how to pay for it.. He sent the kid back to building what was to become our tractor and the manager himself drove it out to our place tonight and dropped it off - no delivery charge. No Taxes because we are Ag and using it for farming.. So out the door we paid under 21K. Yeah, its still a bundle of money, but its got all the modern stuff - HST transmission with a shuttle pedal, power steering, cruise control, adjustable hydraulics, 3 point hitch with telescoping links, integrated FEL joystick, and of course the damn cup holder. I made fun of my friend's Kubota all of the time because of the cupholder.. and I wasted no time in emailing him to tell him my orange tractor is better than his orange tractor..
http://www.kioti.com/ck-series/ck35-hst/ (http://www.kioti.com/ck-series/ck35-hst/)
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Super!
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Bought the Tractor today.. Went to the only Kioti dealer close to me-- on Google Street it looked like a small used car dealership..with little inventory. But this same company has been advertising deals on the Bobcats on Craiglist for months now though, so I decided to look in since I had today off.
They had a kid out there who was just setting up a row of Kioti's to sell freash from the crates. Same kid stopped what he was doing and put on his salesman hat. . I missed the deals on the Bobcats.. They were selling the CT235 with loader for $19K. - There was one on the lot-- but it was already sold. They had bought a bunch from other dealers (and sent out an ad when they did saying so..) and they just sold really quickly at the price they were asking. Michelle drove one of the Kiotis around and it was all good. So we ended up with the Kioti equivalent with a front end loader. I told them I was hoping to get closer to that 19K number and the Kid did the "Let me check with my manager and see what we can do" - and I am thinking "man I hate this part." And I was getting ready to tell the kid he had Three trips and then we walk..)
Then this old guy, who turns out to be the manager, comes in, and drops a number on the table saying "that is the best I am willing to do" with such sincerity I was actually inclined to believe him. He said he was selling the Bobcats cheaper because Bobcat was giving a $2000 rebate + Free FEL offer to basically liquidate the remaining stock. Young kid was fine, but I liked the old guy. Said he used to own a Ford Dealership but liked selling tractors better because you get a better class of customer. If you are buying a tractor, you probably have land, know pretty much what you want, and have probably figured out how to pay for it.. He sent the kid back to building what was to become our tractor and the manager himself drove it out to our place tonight and dropped it off - no delivery charge. No Taxes because we are Ag and using it for farming.. So out the door we paid under 21K. Yeah, its still a bundle of money, but its got all the modern stuff - HST transmission with a shuttle pedal, power steering, cruise control, adjustable hydraulics, 3 point hitch with telescoping links, integrated FEL joystick, and of course the damn cup holder. I made fun of my friend's Kubota all of the time because of the cupholder.. and I wasted no time in emailing him to tell him my orange tractor is better than his orange tractor..
http://www.kioti.com/ck-series/ck35-hst/ (http://www.kioti.com/ck-series/ck35-hst/)
For as long as it's going to last and the work it will year rounds it's a bargain.
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Purty, Weisshaupt.
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That will be a good tractor
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Nice tractor! I got the 2wd el cheapo with the manual tranny. I figure it's a heck of a lot easier to work on by myself than they hydrostatic and 4wd. Plus with ag tires, I can go anywhere I need.