It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => General Board => Topic started by: IronDioPriest on March 04, 2011, 10:40:33 AM
-
As I write of double standards in regards to the differential between the establishment Left’s treatment of the Tea Party protests and the recent onslaught of pro-public sector union protests, everyone who I care to receive this message already knows what I’m talking about. Therefore I am not going to bother linking to the multitude of videos of peaceful Tea Party protests or violent union protests that we’ve all seen countless times. I won’t link to the multitude of Leftist lies against the Tea Party, or the multitude of examples of Leftist silence in the face of blatant violence and violent rhetoric coming from the Left. I’m not writing to chronicle this double standard, or convince anyone of its existence, because it’s already established among those to whom I write. And to those who disagree that it is established – move along. You’re disingenuous, and I’m not speaking to you.
Rather, I am writing to share what I believe is an extremely dangerous dynamic that is being created by this double standard, the result of which I believe people could end up getting hurt or killed.
Regardless of what one perceives as the success or failure of the Left’s attempts to portray the Tea Party as perpetually on the edge of violent action, the fact remains that a concerted effort is being made to create that narrative of violence. A legitimate peaceful political movement carrying out its constitutional mandate to redress grievances is being falsely demonized by the President and the Democrat party, major Leftist media, organized labor, Socialist organizations, academia, entertainment, and the Leftist “street”. Never mind at this point whether you believe they are succeeding or failing in that effort. My point is that they are trying, vehemently, desperately to create this narrative in the absence of any evidence whatsoever - truth be damned. The Left, from the President of the United States all the way down to his agitators on the street, are working hard to perpetuate a lie about the nature of resistance to this government’s agenda.
In the union protests of Wisconsin that have subsequently fanned outward to other places, we’ve seen actual violent rhetoric, hate-speech, racism, bullying, and violent actions, repeated over and over again. Exactly the kind of ugly behavior of which the Left falsely accuses the Tea Party has played out almost daily since the unions besieged the Wisconsin state capitol, and that behavior has been repeated in Ohio and elsewhere.
And yet in the face of actual violent rhetoric and actions, these same Leftists – from the President of the United States down to the agitators on the street – are supportive of these activities. Whether through outright rhetorical support, tacitly standing by, or omission, obfuscation, and justification by the media, the Left is engaging in none of the wailing and gnashing of teeth against violence that they’ve repeatedly used against the Tea Party.
It is a given that we have a population roughly split down the political and ideological middle. Now we have one side falsely accusing the other side of violence as it engages in violence itself for which it suffers no accountability, and for which it enjoys support of the establishment reaching as high as the President.
The overall dynamic created by the double standard this: Americans of all political and ideological persuasion are receiving a loud and clear message that the Left will go to great lengths to persecute opposition to its agenda, and will support violence and violent rhetoric in support of its agenda.
As the Leftist violence and hatred that we are seeing play out in Wisconsin and elsewhere is allowed to pass without accountability, while simultaneously non-violence against the government’s agenda is persecuted, Leftists who are currently committing violence are receiving the message – however directly or indirectly – that their actions are justified and acceptable.
I perceive that the Leftist “street” is receiving a “go ahead” signal from the Leftist establishment in this battle for the heart and soul of America. They are being told that they are all-in; that it's crunch-time for Socialism, now or never. They are being told that whatever they need to do in service of their agenda is on the table, and they will not be held accountable. Thus I believe the dynamic created by this double-standard could end up getting someone injured or killed. I think the reality of the situation needs to be addressed, and the implications discussed.
Cross-posted @ http://www.redstate.com (http://www.redstate.com)
-
I can't comment at Red State, it must hate my work spam filter or something...keeps dying.
Anyway, BRAVO! Good post IDP!
The ugly agitators are going apenuts and Tea Party members have bent over backwards to be peaceful and civil, but the entire Left has turned up down and down up, trying to spin reality into something it isn't. And complicity by key organizations and institutions is making the reality of violent demise of an innocent citizen as the result of Leftist thuggery is beginning to look like a "when" scenario, not an "if"!
And when it happens, will it be Katie bar the door?!
We've seen in other nations how violent socialism's death throes can be, is this to be our fate as well?
If it to be BITS, it's entirely on the Left's hands...Obama, his Regime, the MFM, the unions, all of 'em...it will be their massacre!
Damn them!
-
I am in total agreement IDP.
Despite the phony call for civility in the wake of the Tucson shootings, the lefts ramping-up of both rhetoric and assaultive behavior has left the unmistakable message - it's only a matter of time before they explode in wide-spread acts of violent civil disobedience. When they do...When they do all are at risk of being potential targets. Women. Children. Aged or infirm.
The more vulnerable, the more likely a target for violent assault.
I worry for my parents. I can take care of myself and have zero reservations about dropping the hammer, but I can't be with them 24/7.
Now is the time for all good citizens to become "combat-aware" - Check your supplies. Keep your gas tank topped off. Bad time to go exploring unknown areas. Let people know where you are going and keep a cell phone on you.
I firmly believe that it is coming although I do now know in what form.
Stay safe y'all.
Edit: altard proofed
-
TAZE THEM BRO!!!
-
Cross-posted here:
http://www.redstate.com/irondiopriest/2011/03/04/a-deadly-double-standard/ (http://www.redstate.com/irondiopriest/2011/03/04/a-deadly-double-standard/)
-
Someone's already been killed ... but, since it was a Republican congressman, it's "move along, nothing to see here" because the murderer could not be pinned to the Right - and not for lack of trying.
Someone else, or ones, will be killed and I believe it won't be an incidental by-product; it will be the point. Maybe the flash-point.
I tried to post that at RedState and was advised I haven't been "registered long enough to comment". (I just signed up.)
So, vavanculo. This is why I rarely comment anywhere else.
-
TAZE THEM BRO!!!
Back when they first came out I gifted them to several people, I'm glad they never had to use them, many of the tasers did not perform as advertised.
Today I a am hesitant to purchase one. If there was accurate information about various brands and performance a taser would be an attractive defense item.
TEOTWAWKI topic?
-
This is exactly how I feel! ::bashing:: Of course, maybe, this site will be different!
Have you looked at; http://www.republicfortheunitedstates.org/ (http://www.republicfortheunitedstates.org/) I think this is the answer.
-
This is exactly how I feel! ::bashing:: Of course, maybe, this site will be different!
Have you looked at; http://www.republicfortheunitedstates.org/ (http://www.republicfortheunitedstates.org/) I think this is the answer.
Welcome Roger. Is that your website at the link?
-
No sir, it's OUR website. Here is a video, who's first 20-30 minutes will explain what we are doing much better than I can;
JMP: Tim Turner Republic Update (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB36UVnaNFQ#)
-
TAZE THEM BRO!!!
Back when they first came out I gifted them to several people, I'm glad they never had to use them, many of the tasers did not perform as advertised.
Today I a am hesitant to purchase one. If there was accurate information about various brands and performance a taser would be an attractive defense item.
TEOTWAWKI topic?
I hear bean bag rounds are selling out fast.
-
TAZENUKE THEM BRO!!!
FIFY
-
I was with you right up to the part where you said that the 14th Amendment was illegal. Can you cite legal precedent to support that contention?
-
hmmmm redstate don't like me no more......
I don't remember posting anyth.........ooops ::whatgives:: wait.....never-mind......I have no recollection of anything I may or may not have wrote there that got me banished....................
::unknowncomic::
-
Still won't let me post; same message.
-
Still won't let me post; same message.
If I remember right, redstate has like a 24 hour buffer period between account setup and ability to post.
-
Someone's already been killed ... but, since it was a Republican congressman, it's "move along, nothing to see here" because the murderer could not be pinned to the Right - and not for lack of trying.
Someone else, or ones, will be killed and I believe it won't be an incidental by-product; it will be the point. Maybe the flash-point.
I tried to post that at RedState and was advised I haven't been "registered long enough to comment". (I just signed up.)
So, vavanculo. vafanculo This is why I rarely comment anywhere else.
FIFY! ::unknowncomic::
-
Good post, IDP.
-
Good post, IDP.
!!!
-
Good commentary. You make a lot of good points. I see it as a propaganda war, and conservatives seem to be losing it. My instincts tell me that we would be losing it much worse without alternative media such as this Internet thingie and talk radio. I believe that there has always been a media bias in my lifetime, but up until recently it was much more subtle. Now they don't even bother to hide it anymore, but then they still claim it doesn't exist.
How do we fight it? By getting the truth out. How do we get the truth out? A number of ways. The Tea Party has been very valuable in waking a lot of people up, but there are still a lot who are apathetic. We need to get those people interested and informed.
Clearly, liberals will do anything to protect their interests. When we have the DOJ not prosecuting voter intimidation, we know we are going to have a long uphill climb against these radicals who control most of the media. The only long term solution is to vote these people out of office. My hope is that most people can look at the Tea Party and these union radicals and see both for who they really are. If not, we are in big trouble.
-
On the contrary, conservatives are winning this war. The lamestream media are in fact Baghdad Bob claiming that the Americans are losing the battle. All of them are unhinged doing and saying the goofiest sh*t proves my point. Just doubling down much like comrade usurper Obamakov. They have lost their lock on information and it's driving them bat sh*t crazy. Polls obviously skewed, making sh*t up, projection of their own failings and misgivings, it's all there. ::bashing::
-
Good commentary. You make a lot of good points. I see it as a propaganda war, and conservatives seem to be losing it. My instincts tell me that we would be losing it much worse without alternative media such as this Internet thingie and talk radio. I believe that there has always been a media bias in my lifetime, but up until recently it was much more subtle. Now they don't even bother to hide it anymore, but then they still claim it doesn't exist.
How do we fight it? By getting the truth out. How do we get the truth out? A number of ways. The Tea Party has been very valuable in waking a lot of people up, but there are still a lot who are apathetic. We need to get those people interested and informed.
Clearly, liberals will do anything to protect their interests. When we have the DOJ not prosecuting voter intimidation, we know we are going to have a long uphill climb against these radicals who control most of the media. The only long term solution is to vote these people out of office. My hope is that most people can look at the Tea Party and these union radicals and see both for who they really are. If not, we are in big trouble.
Good points all Janny. I think that the state of the propaganda war is somewhere between winning and losing. It seems like the tide is turning against the Left, but that just means we aren't getting overrun by lies at every turn like we always have in the past. The lies and liars are still formidable and entrenched. The Tea Party has definitely been effective at countering the lies, in spite of the false narrative, and I think the awareness is growing.
And your last point is a must. If the people cannot discern the difference between what they see in the Tea Party and what they see in these union bastards, then how can we hope that the people will ever come to the proper electoral decision? They HAVE to be seen by the majority as the aggressors.
-
Good commentary. You make a lot of good points. I see it as a propaganda war, and conservatives seem to be losing it. My instincts tell me that we would be losing it much worse without alternative media such as this Internet thingie and talk radio. I believe that there has always been a media bias in my lifetime, but up until recently it was much more subtle. Now they don't even bother to hide it anymore, but then they still claim it doesn't exist.
How do we fight it? By getting the truth out. How do we get the truth out? A number of ways. The Tea Party has been very valuable in waking a lot of people up, but there are still a lot who are apathetic. We need to get those people interested and informed.
Clearly, liberals will do anything to protect their interests. When we have the DOJ not prosecuting voter intimidation, we know we are going to have a long uphill climb against these radicals who control most of the media. The only long term solution is to vote these people out of office. My hope is that most people can look at the Tea Party and these union radicals and see both for who they really are. If not, we are in big trouble.
Good points all Janny. I think that the state of the propaganda war is somewhere between winning and losing. It seems like the tide is turning against the Left, but that just means we aren't getting overrun by lies at every turn like we always have in the past. The lies and liars are still formidable and entrenched. The Tea Party has definitely been effective at countering the lies, in spite of the false narrative, and I think the awareness is growing.
And your last point is a must. If the people cannot discern the difference between what they see in the Tea Party and what they see in these union bastards, then how can we hope that the people will ever come to the proper electoral decision? They HAVE to be seen by the majority as the aggressors.
I think the only word I would change in that whole statement is Aggressors I would rather think that Defenders would be more what were looking for. Aggressors can only move in one direction where defenders are free to go in all directions and be backed by people that don't even know that you're being aggressive.
Agressive with a smile so to speak.(maybe I'm nuts)
-
Yep. Nuts like a fox.
-
Yep. Nuts like a fox.
I kind of got that from A Beck show where he was talking about the Fabian Socialist and Shaw(the author) said the Mussolini was too mean looking and nobody liked liked him but if he would just smile nothing would have changed except people would like him better.And that's the approach we might think about taking WHEN it suits us.
-
Anything like: be nice, smile, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet?
-
Anything like: be nice, smile, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet?
YUP! ;D
-
Heh, I read that somewhere before.
-
IDP you are a very gifted and good writer. You and others here do an outstanding job expressing how I feel in words much better than I can.
One other thing I would like to add that from my experiences living here in the cesspools of liberalism is that many lefties are very angry and unhappy people on the whole. Dennis Prager does a good job of explaining this (http://www.dennisprager.com/columns.aspx?g=f8569ebd-8405-4f8c-b44e-3936803cd577&url=why_conservatives_are_happier_than_liberals/) . This can be backed up by research done by pew (http://pewresearch.org/pubs/301/are-we-happy-yet/) and Arthur Brooks. One of the reasons I feel many lefties are not, I do not know how to put this nicely................ ::whatgives:: as radiant in the faces as conservatives, is because their anger and what seems hatred for our conservative values is worn on their faces.
Yes there are exceptions as my neighbors who are passionately liberal would do anything for you. They are very nice and pleasant to be around. However, they seem to me to be the exception not the rule around this area anyway.
I have had many encounters with lefties especially living here and if they do not agree with your views seem ready in an instant to explode like a hand grenade, in fact they to me are as human hand grenades.
One quick example I will share to reinforce your points. A couple years ago I was moving snow at work with a skid steer, I was doing another project for a few minutes and I left the machine idling. This man approaches me yelling and screaming to the effect that somehow by leaving the skid steer idling I was adding CO2 to the atmosphere and was contributing to flooding in Nicaragua of all places. I told him I did not believe in man made global warming and if there is it is because of sun storms. He went nuts and off on me for a couple minutes, he poked me in the chest and was shaking with anger. I did my best not to disrespect him and laugh. In stature he was much smaller than I and there was no way I would have lifted a finger to hurt the man as I could not see him at all causing me any bodily harm. I went form laughter to sadness for the man……………. to experience how someone could become so hostile and angered over something so small, trivial and insignificant as having a machine idling. I simply said to him, Sir I disagree with your views and told him I would be happy to give you a number that you could call to complain about me. He left in anger shaking his head and believe I saw tears coming form his eyes.
-
OK have to type this again. :-\ Something happened when trying to post the first time. I feel that the Conservatives and Tea partiers are the new version of the European Jews. Liberals are trying their hardest to blame all of the country's ills on us. When haven't we gone a day with some blowhard blaming Bush or us for the country's problems. We even get blamed for the problems in the world.
Hitler and Mussolini blamed the Jews for their country's problems. Now it is us. The tea party came about to speak as a voice for the conservative principles, since most conservatives were sitting quietly on the sidelines. We have been blamed for the Gabby Gifford nut job shooting when all information showed it to be to the contrary. Now we are being demonized as the equivalent as angry violent mobs all the while the real mobs are given a pass or not being reported. If it is reported, we are still to blame for their actions. They say we are to blame for them taking these violent actions. I fear that it will get worse before it gets better. If we don't watch out, the socialists will slowly take away our rights and herd us into dhimnitude status.
We have to not back down on what is going on. We realize that if we just keep our mouths shut it will only marginalize us into second class citizen status. Unfortunately, there are still millions of conservatives standing back and not investigating what is really going on. In some ways, I feel that subconsciously, we won't stand for this eroding of our rights and the slippery slope that was created in Germany. We can't and won't be sheep. If we do, then I fear for what our country will become.
-
On the contrary, conservatives are winning this war. The lamestream media are in fact Baghdad Bob claiming that the Americans are losing the battle. All of them are unhinged doing and saying the goofiest sh*t proves my point. Just doubling down much like comrade usurper Obamakov. They have lost their lock on information and it's driving them bat sh*t crazy. Polls obviously skewed, making sh*t up, projection of their own failings and misgivings, it's all there. ::bashing::
Your points are valid, but I also think that this is evidence that they are winning the propaganda war, as well as that they are losing it. If they were not successful at propping him up, then Obama's approval ratings would be much lower than they are.
The strongest evidence that WE are winning the propaganda war is the election results from last November! That is what has them so angry! They are always at their angriest and most defensive when they are out of power! They had all three branches and could pretty much pass whatever they wanted. Now the house Reps. Have the clout and the vitriol and lies are worse than ever!
The people who are paying attention enough to go out and VOTE are the ones we need to focus on. Wake them up to the reality of what is going on.
Yes, they have lost their lock on information, but there are still way too many robots who get their "news" only from the alphabet networks and are thus woefully uninformed!
-
Those as such operate with what I describe as a refusal of information-delivery block. It's not that they're uninformed, it's just that so much of what they "know" is wrong and they can cite chapter and verse, from various and sundry websites, to back it up.
These ones are unreachable by ordinary means; one can rearrange the words and phrases, supply facts and data, just so many times and make no progress at all because they haven't reasoned themselves into their positions, so they won't be reasoned out of them.
Practically speaking, there really is a single standard, which is anything that works toward demeaning and destroying Western civilization and mores will be employed, self-contradictory or not. It is those contradictions that leave us observing there are one set of rules for the right and another for the left, when the only rule is there are no rules, there is just a goal.
-
...Practically speaking, there really is a single standard, which is anything that works toward demeaning and destroying Western civilization and mores will be employed, self-contradictory or not. It is those contradictions that leave us observing there are one set of rules for the right and another for the left, when the only rule is there are no rules, there is just a goal.
Yes. Aside from the intended destruction inherent in the lies and misinformation, the observation and assimilation of the contradictions as reality by the public are inherently destructive in themselves.
Think about how they've employed this to undermine confidence in the electoral process. They've accused Republicans of election theft, while employing every possible means at their disposal to do exactly that - barely bothering to hide their methods. Aside from elections being stolen and people being disenfranchised, the general public's confidence in the results of elections has been eroded, which also serves the destructive agenda of the Left.
-
"By any means necessary" is the only guiding "principle" of the Left. That's it. There's nothing more to it.
Hence their current flirtations with the radical Islamists. Fundamentalist Muslims hold beliefs that could not be more contradictory to the espoused beliefs of Western liberals, so how can the Left align itself with such people? It's because the Muslim cause is just another expedient, a convenient club with which to bash Western Civilization over the head. They are able to form these ephemeral alliances without a sense of cognitive dissonance because they don't really believe in anything except the destruction of "Western capitalism".
I used to wonder at what could possibly motivate such people, given the ample history we have that shows our way of life -- the one they are so keen to destroy -- has provided the best standard of living for the most people (only in America does living in "poverty" make you more likely to be obese). That question has led me back to truths I once dismissed as simplistic fables: they are the agents of evil. They have rejected any notion of supreme moral authority and have instead elevated themselves to that role. They indulge this vanity leaving nihilism in their wake.
-
Pandora, I know the people you are talking about. Whenever I make the mistake of clicking on a "news" story on Yahoo (they are exclusively AP driven, it seems) and look at the comments I see this people. They spout the DNC talking points as facts, and they clearly believe that they are the informed ones and anyone who doesn't agree with them is an idiot. I think many of them are PAID by the Dems to promote that propaganda. They aren't the ones I am talking about. They are unreachable. I am talking about the 70 year old couple who watched Huntley and Brinkley way back when, and still don't realize that they are being taken for a ride by Brokaw and Couric. They are reachable, and they have paid taxes all their lives, they have lived through the Cold War, and they can see, easily, if given the real facts, what Obama is doing and trying to do to our country.
There are definitely those who are way too far gone to ever get through to. We need not focus on them.
-
"By any means necessary" is the only guiding "principle" of the Left. That's it. There's nothing more to it.
BINGO! We have a winner!
The end justifies the means is their motto! Hence they can lie straight-faced, accuse conservatives of doing everything they are doing themselves, and not get called on it by the like-minded people in the media!
-
"By any means necessary" is the only guiding "principle" of the Left. That's it. There's nothing more to it.
BINGO! We have a winner!
The end justifies the means is their motto! Hence they can lie straight-faced, accuse conservatives of doing everything they are doing themselves, and not get called on it by the like-minded people in the media!
Yup. They barely try to hide it anymore, and when they get called on it, it's an annoyance or inconvenience. The need to be seen as credible is now a peripheral concern for these people.
-
Think about how they've employed this to undermine confidence in the electoral process. They've accused Republicans of election theft, while employing every possible means at their disposal to do exactly that - barely bothering to hide their methods. Aside from elections being stolen and people being disenfranchised, the general public's confidence in the results of elections has been eroded, which also serves the destructive agenda of the Left.
I will never forget the irony of AlGore standing up after the 2000 election and screeching "Count all the votes!" while at the same time he has is lawyer goons in court trying to keep all the military ballots from being counted. Then the liberal newspapers actually did the recounts that Gore demanded, and Gore still lost. Yet there are still liberals who claim that the Supreme Court handed the presidency to Bush. ::bashing::
These people don't care about truth or fairness. Only about power.
-
Pandora, I know the people you are talking about. Whenever I make the mistake of clicking on a "news" story on Yahoo (they are exclusively AP driven, it seems) and look at the comments I see this people. They spout the DNC talking points as facts, and they clearly believe that they are the informed ones and anyone who doesn't agree with them is an idiot. I think many of them are PAID by the Dems to promote that propaganda. They aren't the ones I am talking about. They are unreachable. I am talking about the 70 year old couple who watched Huntley and Brinkley way back when, and still don't realize that they are being taken for a ride by Brokaw and Couric. They are reachable, and they have paid taxes all their lives, they have lived through the Cold War, and they can see, easily, if given the real facts, what Obama is doing and trying to do to our country.
There are definitely those who are way too far gone to ever get through to. We need not focus on them.
Ask IDP about his father.
Then, there is the matter of my neighbor, not 70, though, whom I've described here before, who lives one way and votes another and n'er the twain shall meet.
-
Ask IDP about his father.
Okay!
IDP, what about your father?
My mother-in-law was a life-long liberal Democrat. Later in life, while she was still working in the teaching profession, in a Chicago suburb, she had a series of experiences that woke her up to reality. One particular one was when she hired a woman as a clerical worker. The woman was a black woman from a nearby community in Chicago. She was well qualified and my m-i-l was delighted to give her the opportunity at a decent paying job. Well, the next day, the woman came back to her and told her that couldn't accept the job, after all, because her family had told her she was being "too white." My mother-in-law was floored. She'd believed for all those years that the black people only wanted opportunities to be treated equally and get ahead. She gradually opened her eyes to the reality of the welfare state, after that.
My mother in law is now retired, at age 76, and watches Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly and listens to Rush.
It can be done!
-
Ask IDP about his father.
Okay!
IDP, what about your father?
If you read from HERE (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,139.msg1764.html#msg1764) on down, you'll get a rundown. It's relevant to this discussion.
My mother-in-law was a life-long liberal Democrat. Later in life, while she was still working in the teaching profession, in a Chicago suburb, she had a series of experiences that woke her up to reality. One particular one was when she hired a woman as a clerical worker. The woman was a black woman from a nearby community in Chicago. She was well qualified and my m-i-l was delighted to give her the opportunity at a decent paying job. Well, the next day, the woman came back to her and told her that couldn't accept the job, after all, because her family had told her she was being "too white." My mother-in-law was floored. She'd believed for all those years that the black people only wanted opportunities to be treated equally and get ahead. She gradually opened her eyes to the reality of the welfare state, after that.
My mother in law is now retired, at age 76, and watches Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly and listens to Rush.
It can be done!
I agree, it can be done. I've seen it happen. Still, there are an awful lot of people who are just stuck in a pattern. It's hard to change something as fundamental as your political affiliation unless you are confronted with incontrovertible evidence AND compelling motivation.
There are so many people here in Minnesota who are essentially conservative, but could not fathom voting for a Republican. They self identify with Democrats. They might come from union or farm backgrounds, having grown up in families where Republican was a curse word, and where everyone they care about were Democrats.
And yet those same people may be pro-life, in favor of traditional marriage, for lower taxes , for smaller government, for less regulation, for reinforcement of liberty, for firearm rights, etc... There is a cognitive dissonance between who they are - how they live their lives - and who they identify with and vote for.
You literally have to shock people like this out of their patterns, or most of them won't budge. And then there are those - like my father - who shut down, and don't wanna hear it.
-
And yet those same people may be pro-life, in favor of traditional marriage, for lower taxes , for smaller government, for less regulation, for reinforcement of liberty, for firearm rights, etc... There is a cognitive dissonance between who they are - how they live their lives - and who they identify with and vote for.
You literally have to shock people like this out of their patterns, or most of them won't budge. And then there are those - like my father - who shut down, and don't wanna hear it.
You've described my 50 year-old neighbor almost to a T. For Janny's benefit, I reiterate my pre-'08 election experience: we were on the phone, I was running down a list of known troublesome facts about Obama and he interrupted me with, "I'm voting for OBAMA!" His voice rose on OBAMA! Additionally, his stepfather and mother are Republicans and he sees them as stingy (never helped any of the kids out upon reaching adulthood), greedy (they make many of their decisions based on the tax consequences) and mean. This opinion does not seem remotely worth re-examining to him in spite of his close acquaintance with our habits and actions. ::bashing::
-
Interesting. Maybe if you keep whittling away at your dad, then gradually you will bring him around. One of the experiences I remember with my m-i-l was when we had both just voted and we were talking about the judges. The judges back in Crook County, Illinois go on the ballot for retention periodically. I don't know that any of them ever get voted out, but I brought this up that I found it hard to find information on whether the judges were qualified. Her response was that she had looked at the ballot and voted to retain all the judges that were women, and to bounce all the men. "Because we need more women judges." I asked her why she would assume the women were qualified, and why she could just reject men whether they were qualified or not, but she had no answer. I gave up on trying to reason with her at that point. She has come far, but she still has moments like this one.
My nephew is kind of the opposite of your neighbor, Pandora. He is a self-described "moderate" who is really a liberal. We were at a family gathering a while back and Sheriff Joe Arpaio got brought up. My brother simply mentioned Joe's name and my nephew went off on a tirade about how he hates Arpaio. Nobody agreed with him, therefore we are all uninformed. ::bashing::
This "kid" is almost 40, he has never been married and has no responsibilities except to himself. He is a lot of fun to be around, unless you discuss politics with him. I got into a discussion on Facebook with him once, because he posted some link to some leftwing rag about Rush Limbaugh being a racist, which is a fact, of course. I asked him to explain how he knows Rush's heart, yet he gives Obama a pass for attending that racist church in Chicago for all those years. His response? "There would be no way to know if Obama agreed with any of that racist stuff unless you were sitting next to him in the pew to see how he reacted to it." Uh huh.... ::popcorn::
...but ten second sound bites of Rush Limbaugh, taken out of context by far left-wing websites is proof that Rush Limbaugh is a racist?
-
Yip. Some people are just lost. Still fun to tweak 'em with truth now and then though. I have a homosexual cousin (who looks like Rachel Maddow) and he's a flamer. He likes to good-naturedly push my buttons by speaking frankly about being gay, cuz he knows how I am, but I never take the bait. I always assent to a libertarian tolerance position with him, and lucky for our conversations, he cannot relate to homosexuals who wish to marry, and he doesn't give a sh*t about that issue.
But I also use these conversations as an opportunity to talk to him about fiscal policy. Last time I saw him I got him to recognize (I believe for the first time) that he's essentially fiscally conservative. He's so wrapped up in the gay=Leftist culture in San Francisco that to him, being on the Left and being a Democrat is the same as being Gay. Even though he's fiscally conservative, he's invested in equating his homosexuality with being on the Left.
Making him realize that and admit it tweaked him a little, I could tell. But I have zero doubt that he went directly back to his comfy little worldview without giving it another thought. He'll never vote for a Republican, no matter what. It's not what homosexuals in his circle of acquaintance do.
-
I finally got to cross post at RS, see if any discussion can be generated to spark some interest.
Seems kinda hit or miss there.
I should spend more time posting there and see if we can pull some interest...
ETA - Or I'll scare the hell out of people and we'll ever see them again...it could go either way!
::whatgives::
;D