It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => Faith & Family => Topic started by: Pandora on March 01, 2012, 10:36:15 AM
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Earlier this week, Francis Cardinal George of the archdiocese of Chicago sent a message to parishioners in Barack Obama’s home town that imposition of the HHS mandate to fund and facilitate contraception, abortifacients, and sterilization would force the Catholic Church to close its hospitals, clinics, schools, and all other organizations that would otherwise have to comply. “Two Lents from now,” Cardinal George warned, “unless something changes, the page [listing Catholic organizations] will be blank.”
Ed Morrissey wrote a column for The Fiscal Times outlining the $100 billion the church has invested in hospitals and other medical facilities, and in schools, exerpted for Hot Air (http://hotair.com/archives/2012/03/01/what-if-catholic-bishops-arent-bluffing/)
I believe the Church ought not close its facilities, but instead stand and fight.
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I believe many of the Bishops do intend to stand and fight. If not successful they will close. Look what happened in Illinois regarding gay adoptions and Catholic Charities. Why would they stay open only to run their institutions no differently than a government one?
But Catholics can not rely on the Bishops to fight--the pew sitters have to stand up too. I actually think that's the only way the fight can be won.
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They should fight, and refuse to adhere to all mandates that violate their principles. If they close let it be because the government used its force to do it. That way their consciouses are clean and we will have more righteous people who took the high road of liberty populating our ranks when civil war breaks out.
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I believe many of the Bishops do intend to stand and fight. If not successful they will close. Look what happened in Illinois regarding gay adoptions and Catholic Charities. Why would they stay open only to run their institutions no differently than a government one?
But Catholics can not rely on the Bishops to fight--the pew sitters have to stand up too. I actually think that's the only way the fight can be won.
Yes, the pew sitters need to stand as well.
My opinion is that they should NOT run their institutions according to the mandate, but to tell Duh Wun to shove it.
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But Catholics can not rely on the Bishops to fight--the pew sitters have to stand up too. I actually think that's the only way the fight can be won.
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If the Bishops are leaders the pew sitters will follow.
They've done it in the past, they've got a play book
all they need to do is follow it.
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If they close up shop, and Obama is President, he will declare it an emergency, take over the assets of the Catholic hospitals and benevolence organizations, nationalize them by fiat, and not think twice.
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If they close up shop, and Obama is President, he will declare it an emergency, take over the assets of the Catholic hospitals and benevolence organizations, nationalize them by fiat, and not think twice.
And if does that, many of us will be armed and waiting for them at the church and hospital doors.
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That still qualifies as force in my book, and he would be held accountable, by whoever is willing.
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I wasn't aware there was an amendment:
The Senate has voted to table the Blunt amendment 51–48. (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/292378/senate-tables-blunt-amendment-brian-bolduc)
The amendment would have outlawed the contraception mandate, and it was opposed by almost all Senate Democrats and Republican senator Olympia Snowe of Maine.
Steve Ertelt of LifeNews.com has more:
Key pro-abortion senators including Clare McCaskill of Missouri and Jon Tester of Montana voted against the amendment — which will energize pro-life advocates against their re-election campaigns this November. On the other side, Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, Joe Manchin of West Virginia and Ben Nelson of Nebraska were three Democrats who crossed sides and voted with Republicans to support the amendment.
Snowe! That lousy ...... ::gaah::
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I believe the Church ought not close its facilities, but instead stand and fight.
But if the fight is lost in the end, the facilities get closed.
Thats what happened in Boston with all the Catholic adoption agencies.
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I believe the Church ought not close its facilities, but instead stand and fight.
But if the fight is lost ijn the end, the facilities get closed.
Thats what happened in Boston with all the Catholic adoption agencies.
If.
Fight first, then deal with "if".
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I believe the Church ought not close its facilities, but instead stand and fight.
But if the fight is lost ijn the end, the facilities get closed.
Thats what happened in Boston with all the Catholic adoption agencies.
And that is unconscionable - mostly from the government, but also from the Church - even given the impossible situation they were placed into. I know it's easy to say and much harder to do, but the Church should have continued to operate in defiance of that diktat, and dared the state to forcibly displace children from the stability provided by the Church's benevolence organizations. They could have won a public relations coup against the state. Instead of doing God's work, they chose to bow down to men. I understand why they did it, but I don't respect them for it.
If people are going to have the courage of their convictions, they are going to need to see organizations with power willing to stand their ground.
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Fight first, retrench and find a new battleground to reengage.
"Never give up, never surrender"*
(WTH did that come from!)
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Fight first, retrench and find a new battleground to reengage.
"Never give up, never surrender"*
(WTH did that come from!)
* ::hysterical::
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0177789/quotes (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0177789/quotes)
But you can define it if you want to!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=never%20give%20up%20never%20surrender (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=never%20give%20up%20never%20surrender)
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Ann Barnhardt is several steps ahead of everyone. When she first made her "I'm done with paying federal income tax" proclamation, I liked the bravado but wondered how feasible such a strident position really is. She's right though. At some point all of us are going to be forced into the position of daring the State to either imprison us or murder us, otherwise we're just going to keep losing. I recognize this intellectually, and I think many others do as well. It's just a matter of the body catching up with the mind. Ann Barnhardt is already there.
She said, of the Catholic hospitals and other organizations, they should simply carry on as usual. When the IRS and HHS and DOJ and all the other alphabet soup of statist thugs call them, ignore the calls. When they send threatening letters, dump them in the garbage. When they show up on the site, refuse them entry. When they come with the expressed intent to use force, let them show the world who and what they are.
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Ann Barnhardt is several steps ahead of everyone. When she first made her "I'm done with paying federal income tax" proclamation, I liked the bravado but wondered how feasible such a strident position really is. She's right though. At some point all of us are going to be forced into the position of daring the State to either imprison us or murder us, otherwise we're just going to keep losing. I recognize this intellectually, and I think many others do as well. It's just a matter of the body catching up with the mind. Ann Barnhardt is already there.
She said, of the Catholic hospitals and other organizations, they should simply carry on as usual. When the IRS and HHS and DOJ and all the other alphabet soup of statist thugs call them, ignore the calls. When they send threatening letters, dump them in the garbage. When they show up on the site, refuse them entry. When they come with the expressed intent to use force, let them show the world who and what they are.
I wish. But I fear most would back pedal and say they must protect their employees, patients, families by conceding.
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Of course they will, and that's why we are where we are today.
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I agree with the principle though, it would be nice if a large majority of people just said "screw 'em, I'm not taking this anymore" and we had millions of people exercising civil disobedience, telling The Regime and the rest of the Left's would-be tyrants to take a flying leap. As far as I can tell the people are no where near that point, but they'll only be able to sit on the sidelines a little bit longer...once the fit hits the shan they'll have to make a choice who's side they are on - Liberty or tyranny!
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Ann Barnhardt is several steps ahead of everyone. When she first made her "I'm done with paying federal income tax" proclamation, I liked the bravado but wondered how feasible such a strident position really is. She's right though. At some point all of us are going to be forced into the position of daring the State to either imprison us or murder us, otherwise we're just going to keep losing. I recognize this intellectually, and I think many others do as well. It's just a matter of the body catching up with the mind. Ann Barnhardt is already there.
She said, of the Catholic hospitals and other organizations, they should simply carry on as usual. When the IRS and HHS and DOJ and all the other alphabet soup of statist thugs call them, ignore the calls. When they send threatening letters, dump them in the garbage. When they show up on the site, refuse them entry. When they come with the expressed intent to use force, let them show the world who and what they are.
I like that
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Cardinal Dolan sent a letter to other bishops. Part of it reads:
At a recent meeting between staff of the bishops’ conference and the White House staff,
our staff members asked directly whether the broader concerns of religious freedom—that is,
revisiting the straight-jacketing mandates, or broadening the maligned exemption—are all off the
table. They were informed that they are. So much for “working out the wrinkles.” Instead, they
advised the bishops’ conference that we should listen to the “enlightened” voices of
accommodation, such as the recent, hardly surprising yet terribly unfortunate editorial in
America. The White House seems to think we bishops simply do not know or understand
Catholic teaching and so, taking a cue from its own definition of religious freedom, now has
nominated its own handpicked official Catholic teachers.
the entire letter here (http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/religious-liberty/upload/Dolan-to-all-bishops-HHS.pdf)
I wish BO and his buddies would give up the charade and just get it on.
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... now has nominated its own handpicked official Catholic teachers.
O rly. Well. We'll see how well this works out. ::saywhat::