Author Topic: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?  (Read 48986 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online Pandora

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 16351
  • I iz also makin a list. U on it pal.
ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« on: June 02, 2011, 02:55:31 PM »
If Fast and Furious was a legitimate ATF operation, albeit one that was less than successful, what’s the problem?

Here’s the problem


Read it from the beginning; this is but the last piece.

Quote
It’s only a guess but I suspect that none of the agencies (State, ICE, DHS, etc.) that might have been ignored or mistreated via this ‘secret ATF operation’ are ready,  no matter how miffed they might be, to throw stones. Napolitano, Clinton and the rest, do, after all, work for Obama. They’re political appointees who are not going to abandon ship while they think it may still be possible to bail incoming out of the boat.

But what about Holder and Melson?

Will the White House succeed in holding the line for its team?

Could be. But sometime before that, perhaps we’ll get an answer to what I think may be the most important question in this case: did ATF end up working, directly or indirectly, with Mexican officials, Mexico’s military, the Mexican Federal Police and/or the Mexican cartels during the implementation of what has been described as an ‘cross-border sting’?

Was ATF a willing or unwitting collaborator with Mexico’s criminal actors, with the gunmen who murdered our own agents?

Mexico’s carefully calibrated responses to the exposure of Fast and Furious, its pr-savvy reactions, and past experience suggest this could be the case. And veterans of the US-Mexico drug wars, drug enforcement agents and intelligence operatives will all tell you what Mexico and the US government continue to deny: that nothing moves across the US-Mexico border without the knowledge and consent of the Mexican authorities, Mexico’s military and Mexico’s Federal Police. Or without these players getting their ‘cut.’

What do you think?

It’s a complicated story, with an out-of-control ending, but it looks like Washington, in this case, may have gone too far to accommodate Mexico City. And  the White House may have cut too many corners in the process.

It’s time to start connecting the dots.

We have an ATF operation that no one in Washington will acknowledge as ‘legal’ or  ‘legitimate.’ We have no evidence that the operation was conducted ‘by the book.’

We know that Fast and Furious facilitated the sale of at least 1800 semiautomatic weapons to cartel gang members, and we know that at least several of these weapons were used, deliberately it seems, to murder our own agents. We know that these weapons were thrown down at the scene of the crime by cartel criminals.

Why?

I can think of no answer except one: that the AK-47 used to gun down US Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was deliberately left at his murder site (by whom? Cartel members? Mexican federal police?) to corroborate, for the US and international media, and for the world, Calderon’s claim that weapons illegally trafficked from the US are fueling the violence in Mexico. Wag that dog.

No matter.

Because whoever threw down that weapon made a mistake: he underestimated the courage of Brian Terry’s colleagues in US law enforcement, and the need of ATF Agent John Dodson, to tell the truth.

The only question now for Representative Issa’s Committee and the American people is—do we have the guts to listen?

H/T Leonidas @ Eternity Road
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

charlesoakwood

  • Guest
Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2011, 03:48:21 PM »
Quote
I can think of no answer except one: that the AK-47 used to gun down US Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was deliberately left at his murder site (by whom? Cartel members? Mexican federal police?) to corroborate, for the US and international media, and for the world, Calderon’s claim that weapons illegally trafficked from the US are fueling the violence in Mexico. Wag that dog.

Or it could be the cartel whizzing on everybody's leg, they do have that attitude.

The article is depressingly spot on.  It will be necessary for Issa to sell this to the populous on the media, if it were not for this thread I would have said the committee was adjourned. From Chairman, "I will have 200 hearings", Issa, I have lost respect and expectation of satisfactory resolution in his pursuits.


Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 42440
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2011, 04:15:59 PM »
Wow, good link, and oodles of really good questions.  In a sane world everyone of these department heads and agency chiefs would be compelled to disclose everything, instead they are stonewalling and circling the wagons thinking they can wait this out.  I sure hope Dodson stays healthy and has some other people of conscience stepping forward to do the right thing, especially if they have evidence that has not yet been sanitized or shredded and the guilty are brought to full justice or you can kiss constitutional government goodbye forever.  This is the kind of crap that gets presidents impeached and removed if it goes up that high, and given the particular approvals that have to take place to tun operations like this it is not plausible that Duh Wun can get away with passing the buck!

This investigation must be brought forward come hell or high water, there can be no retreat.
Irrumabo!  GOP? - Nope. No more. They made their bed, now let them die in it.*
* © Libertas (H/T Glock32)

charlesoakwood

  • Guest
Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2011, 04:23:50 PM »

Randy Weaver settled for, what, 5M?  How many days did his story cross the front page or "World News Tonight"?
Expectations are low.


Online Pandora

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 16351
  • I iz also makin a list. U on it pal.
Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2011, 12:43:27 AM »
Quote
    Faced with a Congress hostile to even slight restrictions of Second Amendment rights, the Obama administration is exploring potential changes to gun laws that can be secured strictly through executive action, administration officials say.

    The Department of Justice held the first in what is expected to be a series of meetings on Tuesday afternoon with a group of stakeholders in the ongoing gun-policy debates. Before the meeting, officials said part of the discussion was expected to center around the White House’s options for shaping policy on its own or through its adjoining agencies and departments — on issues ranging from beefing up background checks to encouraging better data-sharing.

    Administration officials said talk of executive orders or agency action are among a host of options that President Barack Obama and his advisers are considering.


As there is a pattern of behavior to suggest that Gunwalker was not a botched law enforcement operation, but was instead an effort by U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder’s Justice Department to carry out a subversive anti-gun policy of the Obama administration, it is pertinent to examine Obama’s past associations with anti-gun groups.

From 1994-2002, Obama was a director of the Joyce Foundation. Joyce is a progressive organization dedicated to “social justice,” and one of their primary areas of advocacy has always been the funding of gun control organizations. Joyce has long attempted to erode Second Amendment rights, and during Obama’s tenure as a director went so far as to try to subvert Second Amendment scholarship. Joyce gave millions to effectively buy law reviews with grants, and then used those reviews to publish only papers that attacked the individual rights interpretation. The goal was to so pervert legal scholarship that the scholarship would affect Supreme Court decisions.

The piece doesn't say which Tuesday when, but I'm not surprised that the Joyce Foundation/Brady are also possibly involved behind the scenes.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Online Pandora

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 16351
  • I iz also makin a list. U on it pal.
Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2011, 02:42:59 AM »
Quote
But the chairman of the Oversight Committee, Rep. Darrell Issa, R-CA, obtained emails which indicate the acting director of ATF and his deputy received weekly briefings on Gunwalker. The director, Kenneth Melson, had watched a live feed of a straw purchase.

...

"At the same time they were damning gun dealers in public, the administration was secretly forcing them to provide weapons to the cartels, by the armful and without oversight. More than one gun industry insider suggests that the administration extorted cooperation and silence from these gun shops. As the ATF has the power to summarily shut dealers down for the most minor of offenses, that is very, very possible."

Sure.  Live feed converted to recording as proof the dealer was permitting straw purchases.  In what court is the dealer's defense of "but, Your Honor, they made me do it" going to stand?  If it even got to court.

Lousy, lying traitorous bastidges.

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/06/melson-refuses-to-throw-himself-under.html
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 42440
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2011, 07:17:58 AM »
This stinks to high heaven!  Holder needs to be put over a slow fire!  What moron can believe nobody in the White House authorized or knew anything about this?  Do department and agency heads have a fricken signed piece of paper by either Obama or Holder authorizing them to execute policies and and conduct operations as they see fit (A so-called "get-out-of-jail-free" card)?   If not, then there is a chain of command to follow all the fvcking way up!

Is this a fricken Rogue Regime or what?!?!?!

 ::gaah::
Irrumabo!  GOP? - Nope. No more. They made their bed, now let them die in it.*
* © Libertas (H/T Glock32)

Online IronDioPriest

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10357
  • I refuse to accept my civil servants as my rulers
Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2011, 03:36:15 PM »
And now... another murder linked to GunWalker. This is bad. Real bad.

Another ATF gun used in a murder

CBS News has confirmed that ATF Fast and Furious “walked” guns have been linked to the terrorist torture and murder of the brother of a Mexican state attorney general last fall.

Two AK-47 variant rifles were found at the scene of a shoot-out with the murder suspects. Sources say the weapons were part of the controversial ATF program in which agents allowed thousands of guns to fall into the hands of suspects trafficking for Mexico’s drug cartels.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Online John Florida

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 7785
  • IT'S MY FONT AND I'LL USE IT IF I WANT TO!!
Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2011, 03:47:24 PM »
YES WE CAN!!
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

charlesoakwood

  • Guest
Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2011, 04:17:09 PM »

The cartelistos are deliberately dropping "known" guns for the Federales to find and identify.
An up your nose 3fer.


charlesoakwood

  • Guest
Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2011, 04:21:39 PM »

Cross-posted from: http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,1318.msg22453.html#msg22453


[blockquote]
Quote
LINK
...
“What we have here is a colossal failure of leadership,’’ Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agent Peter Forcelli told a House Oversight and Government Reform Committee hearing. “This was a catastrophic disaster.’’
...
Gun-rights advocates, many of them in Texas, argue that the Fast and Furious case shows that most, if not all, U.S. weapons purchases were within ATF’s power to prevent. Most weapons in Mexico come from Central America or are sold to traffickers by corrupt Mexican law enforcement, they claim.
...
Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., called for a separate hearing to examine whether current gun laws are adequate to stem the Mexico-bound gun flow.
...
The three ATF agents testified how at times they watched purchasers carry away loads of weapons and put them into traffickers’ cars only to have supervisors tell them to do nothing.

When agents protested, ATF agent John Dodson said, “We were told that we simply didn’t understand the plan.’’

A former N.Y. police detective, Forcelli said: “To walk a single gun is, in my opinion, an idiotic move.’’
[/blockquote]


Senators Feinstein and Schumer, Monday, called for a reinstatement of Feinstein's assault-weapons ban which expired in 2004.


Online John Florida

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 7785
  • IT'S MY FONT AND I'LL USE IT IF I WANT TO!!
Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2011, 05:01:28 PM »

Cross-posted from: http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,1318.msg22453.html#msg22453


[blockquote]
Quote
LINK
...
“What we have here is a colossal failure of leadership,’’ Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agent Peter Forcelli told a House Oversight and Government Reform Committee hearing. “This was a catastrophic disaster.’’
...
Gun-rights advocates, many of them in Texas, argue that the Fast and Furious case shows that most, if not all, U.S. weapons purchases were within ATF’s power to prevent. Most weapons in Mexico come from Central America or are sold to traffickers by corrupt Mexican law enforcement, they claim.
...
Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., called for a separate hearing to examine whether current gun laws are adequate to stem the Mexico-bound gun flow.
...
The three ATF agents testified how at times they watched purchasers carry away loads of weapons and put them into traffickers’ cars only to have supervisors tell them to do nothing.

When agents protested, ATF agent John Dodson said, “We were told that we simply didn’t understand the plan.’’

A former N.Y. police detective, Forcelli said: “To walk a single gun is, in my opinion, an idiotic move.’’
[/blockquote]


Senators Feinstein and Schumer, Monday, called for a reinstatement of Feinstein's assault-weapons ban which expired in 2004.




 Screw them too!!
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Online AlanS

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 7111
  • Proud Infidel
Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2011, 06:08:16 PM »
...Senators Feinstein and Schumer, Monday, called for a reinstatement of Feinstein's assault-weapons ban which expired in 2004.

Lib logic. It didn't work before, it wouldn't have helped this time, so let's do it. ::bashing::
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."

Thomas Jefferson

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 42440
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2011, 07:28:38 AM »
ATF is terminating Cefalu, after being warned 2 days prior by Issa not to retalitate against whistleblowers.  Remember when demonrats made a big show about protecting whistleblowers during W's administration?  Yeah, we all knew that was pure political BS, and here's the proof in spades!

“My impression of him is that he has probably ruffled lots of feathers and delicate egos in his time. He is very direct and honest.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/27/atf-to-fire-gunrunner-whistleblower/#ixzz1QZaKH38G

Yeah, sucks to have that type working in The Regime!

Issa better jump on this and shove it down Melson's face and get in Holder's grill about it!  Issue subpoenas now!

 ::cussing::

 ::angry::
Irrumabo!  GOP? - Nope. No more. They made their bed, now let them die in it.*
* © Libertas (H/T Glock32)

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 42440
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2011, 12:46:20 PM »
This continues to spin out of control while precious time slips away the guilty are busy shredding documents and getting their stories straight...there should be butts hanging from yardarm's already!!!

 ::cussing::

 ::angry::

 ::gaah::

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07/06/justice-department-obstructing-fast-and-furious-gun-probe-atf-director-says/
Irrumabo!  GOP? - Nope. No more. They made their bed, now let them die in it.*
* © Libertas (H/T Glock32)

Online Pandora

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 16351
  • I iz also makin a list. U on it pal.
Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2011, 02:00:37 PM »
Quote
According to sources, unbeknown to the ATF, the target of their operation was a FBI confidential informant, a fact that only became known to them in April of this year after an 18-month investigation that cost millions of dollars of tax dollars.

"They were going after someone they could never have," a source in Washington told Fox News. "The Mr. Big they wanted was using government money to buy guns that went to the cartels. The FBI knew it and didn't tell them."

The confidential informant is a former high-level drug dealer who had been deported by the DEA. The FBI, however, recruited him as a counter-terrorism informant, providing information on potential dirty bombs or Al Qaeda suspects moving through the border region.

The FBI informant was picked up on a DEA wiretap, and forwarded to the ATF.

Whaaat?!  What is this now?
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Online John Florida

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 7785
  • IT'S MY FONT AND I'LL USE IT IF I WANT TO!!
Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2011, 02:52:38 PM »
Quote
According to sources, unbeknown to the ATF, the target of their operation was a FBI confidential informant, a fact that only became known to them in April of this year after an 18-month investigation that cost millions of dollars of tax dollars.

"They were going after someone they could never have," a source in Washington told Fox News. "The Mr. Big they wanted was using government money to buy guns that went to the cartels. The FBI knew it and didn't tell them."

The confidential informant is a former high-level drug dealer who had been deported by the DEA. The FBI, however, recruited him as a counter-terrorism informant, providing information on potential dirty bombs or Al Qaeda suspects moving through the border region.

The FBI informant was picked up on a DEA wiretap, and forwarded to the ATF.

Whaaat?!  What is this now?


 Good lord!
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Offline LadyVirginia

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
  • Mt. Vernon painting by Francis Jukes
Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2011, 04:17:30 PM »
I think I've seen this plot on tv.


 ::gaah::

"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

charlesoakwood

  • Guest
Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2011, 07:42:38 PM »

Yesterday, Steve Hays at the roundtable, alluded that it went further up the food chain than Melson, today they interviewed Grassley and he said he wasn't interested in asking for his resignation because it was caused further up the food chain.

There's blood in the water folks. The matter is; do the Republicans have teeth enough to go after the sharks?  Or are they going to gum it?


Online John Florida

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 7785
  • IT'S MY FONT AND I'LL USE IT IF I WANT TO!!
Re: ATF’s Fast & Furious- Obama’s ‘Weaponsgate’?
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2011, 08:32:12 PM »

Yesterday, Steve Hays at the roundtable, alluded that it went further up the food chain than Melson, today they interviewed Grassley and he said he wasn't interested in asking for his resignation because it was caused further up the food chain.

There's blood in the water folks. The matter is; do the Republicans have teeth enough to go after the sharks?  Or are they going to gum it?



 And here we are again hoping that the damned leadership has a set between them to do the right thing.
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie