Author Topic: Be careful with gold and silver  (Read 2767 times)

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Offline rickl

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Be careful with gold and silver
« on: April 25, 2011, 08:00:40 PM »
From the Market Ticher earlier today:

How Would You Like Your Parabola?

Denninger frowns on hotlinking images from his site, and it's too much of a bother for me to download them, upload them to Photobucket, and link them here.  So just go look at them over there.

There's an excellent chance that both gold and silver are in a bubble right now, so be very careful if you are buying.  Those parabolic curves could head sharply downwards at a moment's notice, and nobody knows when that will happen.  If you time it exactly right you will do fine, but if your timing is off you could lose big.  And that has more to do with luck than skill.

Several commenters who bought silver years ago are selling now.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
~ Ann Barnhardt

Offline Libertas

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Re: Be careful with gold and silver
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2011, 08:35:48 PM »
You are right about the timing, but I think a hard commodity like gold & silver differ from other commodities.  If gold & silver pop, where is capital to flow?  The stock market?  That is one bubble I think is way more likely to pop.  Fundamentals alone tell me that rise is full of lots of hot air.  The dollar?  The dollar is getting hammered left and right, and unless rates rise here or other currencies get hammered by something what will drive action to it?  Let it sit in cash?  You're in an unstable currency with an uncertain future.  Real estate?  Sure, nice time to buy if you have cash, but what kind of future does that hold if everybody's busted?  Commercial/corporate paper?  Pick and choose, hit & miss.  Muni's?  Tax bases have been melting, risk is higher now.  Derivatives?  Better off hitting Vegas or Atlantic City!  I'm not buying a gold & silver pop unless something more attractive comes along and I don't see it.  Anybody else see anything?
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline rickl

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Re: Be careful with gold and silver
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2011, 09:22:40 PM »
In my case, I bought some gold and silver around the time of Y2K.  That $300 gold looks mighty fine to me at the moment, and I'm not selling.  It more or less makes up for the drubbing I took in the stock market in 2008-9.  I sold all my holdings in March 2009, at the exact bottom of the market.  Of course, I didn't know it was the bottom at the time.  The market looked like it was in a death spiral and I was just trying to cut my losses.

So now I have some gold, some silver, and some paper money stashed away in a safe.  I'm not buying any more gold and silver unless the price comes down.

Several years ago, someone told me that the Great Depression wasn't so bad as long as you had cash.  The problem was that many people didn't.  Hence the cash in my safe.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
~ Ann Barnhardt

Offline Libertas

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Re: Be careful with gold and silver
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2011, 09:38:23 PM »
Yeah, I've been in oil for some time, jumped big into gold during the market drop, saved my butt big time.

I have stuff squirreled away too!

 ;)

Even the past year whenever silver pulled back I bought more.  Last time was when it was around 30, I have enough for now, especially when you add in junk silver (coins).
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

charlesoakwood

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Re: Be careful with gold and silver
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2011, 09:46:15 PM »

Several years ago, someone told me that the Great Depression wasn't so bad as long as you had cash.  The problem was that many people didn't.  Hence the cash in my safe.

They didn't run the printing presses 24/7 during the depression.

You're right to consider the bubble but as the things Libertas mentioned and others, such as the BRICS, Japan's necessity to dump US treasuries, and China being fed up with the Bernank.  Bubbles will float until things align to pop them.  One must pay attention.

One thing I keep in mind is the parallel to the Carter bubble and the relative dollar value then and now.  That would put the Carter $800 peak at about $2K.  When it starts closing in on that number, how did he put it, swivel neck.

Offline michelleo

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Re: Be careful with gold and silver
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2011, 10:37:46 PM »
If gold & silver pop, where is capital to flow? 

Maybe the yuan?

Offline Sectionhand

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Re: Be careful with gold and silver
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2011, 05:06:22 AM »
If gold & silver pop, where is capital to flow? 

Maybe the yuan?

Down the tubes because there won't be any "capital" .

Offline Libertas

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Re: Be careful with gold and silver
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2011, 07:10:42 AM »
Maybe oil, Duh Wun is doing all he can to keep those prices high.  Everyone else might as well get cash while you can and buy stuff you can barter!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

charlesoakwood

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Re: Be careful with gold and silver
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2011, 09:45:44 AM »

By cash, are you referring to the greenback or something else?


Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Be careful with gold and silver
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2011, 11:03:01 AM »
I don't know if Gold and Silver are in a "bubble"  - overall market particpation is still low - its not something "everybody" is doing- at least not yet. Even in good times, many kept 10% of their total wealth in gold and silver as a hedge.  However, there is a  lot of paper gold and silver being issued and from that data I have seen the COMEX has about a 10:1 ratio of gold on paper vs. gold on delivery.  Like any old fashioned bank the COMEX could see a run, and collapse.. ironically where most pre FDR ncontract had a Gold clause, most Comex contracts have a fiat clause - where they agree to pay X in dollar if  physical delivery is not possible... AND  this has been happening for large orders.

The underlying fundamentals are an unstable fiscal  environment - worldwide. If that changes, then Gold/silver will drop. However, the method by which that changes are important.  Other countries are actively looking for a way out of the dollar as a reserve currency. BRICS mad deals to use thier own currencies, OPEC has threatened to price oil in something other than Dollars and the world organizations are pushing SDRs as the new currency,  which depending on what plan you look at, calls for potential backing of those SDRs with a basket of  Commodities - including Gold and Silver.

I have to admit in this climate I am only looking to preserve my wealth, and I am not "investing" in grow it. If there is a sudden fiscal crisis then Gold and Silver will really bubble - and that is the time to get out if you are "investing"  in this way (what is the difference between investment and speculation?) - but you would need to quickly convert your Gold/Silver into tangible assests- as converting them into $$ would be pointless. As will be converting them into outher currencies. When the dollar goes, so does 1/4 of the worlds consumer market - and this is going to hurt EVERYONE. Another currency will be better, but then you will also be at the mercy  of foreign nationals who will be none too sympathetic towards the Americans after a sudden default. 

For those who think a dollar default is impossible, I suggest reading "this time is different" - its a history of monetary defaults. Unless something really amazing and miraculous happens in congress,   default  is GOING TO HAPPEN. All that is left is the form of the destroyer- an outright default - or a default by inflation.  The latter course is pretty much locked. The Fed is going to end QE2 soon, and without China buying - our rates will go up - and then because most of the national debt is in short term bonds,  we will be in effect forced to refinance at ever high and higher rates ( this is how the Clinton "surpluses" we created - they moved long term debt into short to get a lower rate..)
Greater interest rate payments will simply make the problem worse until QE3 is started to pay the interest, or the government defaults by offering a new "payment plan"-- if its death by interest you will see periodic pullbacks in gold and silver, but you will NOT see a reverse in trend unless a new world currency ( not based in part on gold/silver)  is adopted as a new reserve, or the US actually does what it required to reign in its spending.

Offline Libertas

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Re: Be careful with gold and silver
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2011, 11:43:29 AM »
Good stuff W.  And yes Charles I was refering to currency.  Anybody's guess is as good as mine as to when the fit hits the shan, but if it comes hard and fast, then waiting too late to cash out "paper" investments into something tangible will not be possible, what with runs and economic armageddon as far as the eye can see.  But if I can pull out of some investments while I have time and use the funds to buy tangible assets of value it's sure as hell better than doing nothing.  Right now I still see steady demand for silver.  Some dealers are offering sizeable premiums above ask price just to fill their inventory and turn around and sell it for a profit.  They wouldn't be doing that if they thought a bubble was going to pop any time soon.

I can't wait to see what kind of dance the Ben Bernanke peforms in the bright lights tomorrow!

If Turbo Timmy is any guide, lying your ass off is not a good leading act!

"Our policy has been and will always be, as long as I will be in office, that a strong dollar is in the interest of the country,"
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.bb8d29de016b5320311c96de8bcead4b.21&show_article=1

Get ready, your wallet is going to be have to be the size of a F150 just to carry pocket change soon!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Be careful with gold and silver
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2011, 12:11:59 PM »
I can't wait to see what kind of dance the Ben Bernanke peforms in the bright lights tomorrow!
One has only to look at the Gold and Silver prices the last two days to see the dance they are doing. They are frantically trying to keep the silver and gold prices down in  prep for turning off the QE2 spigot.  Those spikes are so large and so severe they have "Plunge Team" written all over them (http://ttbth.blogspot.com/2010/09/surprise-plunge-protection-team-is-real.html)

Its important to remember that Gold and Silver are seen as an economic threat by the fed. Not because they are Shiny Rocks, and not because those shiny rocks have historicaly been seen to be objects of intrinsic value ( you know that first lump of gold was used to get a woman into bed. You just KNOW it. ) - but because these shiny rocks have been used as MONEY - as a SYMBOL OF VALUE, a value that is unrelated to their intrinsic value as shiny rocks.  It is  Gold and Silver being used as a medium of exchange that scares the willes out of the Fed. That why they went after the guy making Liberty Dollars from silver - they are silver rounds just like any other, but he was promoting them as currency.  As are these folks    - but they are smart enough to separate the mint from the organization that is promoting the use as a currency....

Bullion potential competition as a  currency to the paper dollar - and the second the gold and silver prices are seen as an exchange rate by the general public , as "real money" , and not  the price of shiny rocks, is the moment the Dollar comes tumbling down.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Be careful with gold and silver
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2011, 12:17:16 PM »
Yes, the PPT has its hands full, and no, they do not want anyone to look behind the curtain.  A new reality can replace the old at any time.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.