It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum

Topics => Faith & Family => Topic started by: IronDioPriest on January 31, 2012, 10:26:24 AM

Title: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: IronDioPriest on January 31, 2012, 10:26:24 AM
I've been saying for two years that the only resistance to the burdensome regulatory regime in the absence of legislatively gutting bureaucracies, is for corporations and citizens to secure the support of a state in defiance to the regime, and thereby force the federal government to either craft legitimate laws, send in tanks, or stand down.

Well finally, a shadow of what I've been calling for for two years will be attempted by an organization with perhaps more universal ability to resist than even a state: the Catholic Church.

Bishops pledge to defy Obama administration on contraception mandate (http://hotair.com/archives/2012/01/31/bishops-pledge-to-defy-obama-administration-on-contraception-mandate/)

Earlier this month, HHS issued a finding that reaffirmed its position that all employers had to comply with a new mandate to provide contraception support in health-care plans — even religious organizations whose doctrines oppose pre- and post-conception intervention.  Needless to say, the decision — which gives churches and other explicitly religious organizations only a one-year waiver to comply — are outraged over the intrusion on their consciences.  Three Catholic bishops announced yesterday that they will defy the Obama administration and fight the rule, and more will surely follow:

[blockquote]At least three Catholic bishops have said they will not comply with the mandate the Obama administration put in place recently in Obamacare that will force religious employers to pay for birth control, contraception and drugs that may cause abortions in their health care plans.

The Obama Administration issued a statement re-iterating the “contraceptive mandate” requiring all insurance providers cover the full range of FDA-approved drugs and devices would remain intact. This mandate, originally proposed in August, includes drugs that work after conception to destroy life rather than prevent it. The statement included a postponement of one year for religious groups that do not already carry contraceptives and additionally would not be exempted under last year’s narrow definition of “religious employer.”

The mandate not only violates such existing conscience protections on abortion such as the Hyde/Weldon Amendment (in so far as Plan B and Ella are covered), but also violates the principles of the Church Amendments which protects conscience rights for those who object to contraceptives and other services on moral or religious grounds.

Responding to it, Bishop Thomas Olmstead of Phoenix announced that his diocese will not comply with the mandate and Archbishop Dennis Schnurr of Cincinnati and Bishop David Ricken of Green Bay, agreed to refuse to comply.[/blockquote]

The Bishops' joint statement:

Quote
We cannot – we will not comply with this unjust law (http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=25613&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter). People of faith cannot be made second-class citizens. We are already joined by our brothers and sisters of all faiths and many others of good will in this important effort to regain our religious freedom. Our parents and grandparents did not come to these shores to help build America’s cities and towns, its infrastructure and institutions, its enterprise and culture, only to have their prosperity stripped of their God given rights. In generations past, the Church has always been able to count on the faithful to stand up and protect her sacred rights and duties. I hope she can trust on this generation of Catholics to do the same. Our children and grandchildren deserve nothing less.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Pandora on January 31, 2012, 10:41:43 AM
We cannot and will not ....

Damn right.

Now, we'll see how the administration reacts.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Libertas on January 31, 2012, 11:27:06 AM
They'll carve out an exception and the rest of the evil monstrosity will march merrily on...

That's just my prediction though...
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Weisshaupt on January 31, 2012, 11:43:26 AM
They'll carve out an exception and the rest of the evil monstrosity will march merrily on...

That's just my prediction though...

Or the State will seize the assets and try to run them without the Catholic Church.
The  Church should have theatened to simply close down the facilities in total. 
They can carve out an exception, but it will be hard to deny others in court.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: LadyVirginia on January 31, 2012, 03:00:05 PM
 ::dueling::

bring it on!
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: John Florida on January 31, 2012, 06:32:37 PM
They'll carve out an exception and the rest of the evil monstrosity will march merrily on...

That's just my prediction though...

Or the State will seize the assets and try to run them without the Catholic Church.
The  Church should have theatened to simply close down the facilities in total. 
They can carve out an exception, but it will be hard to deny others in court.


 Closing facilities would make it the Church's choice and Obambi would say he had nothing to do with it. Keeping them open forces the O to make the choice.Let him force the issue.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: charlesoakwood on January 31, 2012, 07:14:32 PM

"I think the Obama administration has declared war on the Catholic community." (http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/lou-dobbs-tonight/index.html#/v/1416628954001/health-care-laws-birth-control-mandate-sparks-outrage/?playlist_id=164630)
_ _ _ Bill Donohue, President, Catholic League

Glenn Beck & Bill Donohue Discuss Obama Admin vs. Catholic Church Contraception Debate - Part II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3vm3LhhBms#ws)

‘To Hell With You’
    HHS Edict Will Force Catholics to Violate Conscience
 (http://diopitt.org/bridging-gap/hell-you)   January 27, 2012    By Bishop David A. Zubik

...
...

Kathleen Sebelius and through her, the Obama administration, have said “To Hell with You” to the Catholic faithful of the United States.
•To Hell with your religious beliefs,
•To Hell with your religious liberty,
•To Hell with your freedom of conscience.
We’ll give you a year, they are saying, and then you have to knuckle under. As Cardinal-designate Timothy Dolan, archbishop of New York and president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops responded, “in effect, the president is saying that we have a year to figure out how to violate our consciences.”

As I wrote to you last September, with this mandate the democratic process is being ignored while we are being ordered to ignore our religious beliefs. And we are being told not only to violate our beliefs, but to pay directly for that violation; to subsidize the imposition of a contraceptive and abortion culture on every person in the United States.

It is time to go back to work. They have given us a year to adapt to this rule.  We can’t! We simply cannot!

Write to the president.

Write to Secretary Sebelius.

Write to our Senators.

Write to those in Congress.

Use the PA Catholic Advocacy Network to send an email message, too.

I have included the addresses in a box accompanying this article.
Here’s what you can write: ...Link (http://diopitt.org/bridging-gap/hell-you)

Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Libertas on February 01, 2012, 07:06:56 AM
Good idea, CO, well, except for writing to Stymie, you know his people will just chuck that crap in the trash unread, better off using the resources on people you have a chance of influencing.

 ::thumbsup::
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: AlanS on February 01, 2012, 05:01:02 PM
We cannot and will not ....

Damn right.

Catchy phrase. There's a song there somewhere..............
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Libertas on February 02, 2012, 05:16:40 PM
Nancy Pelosi vows to stand with Barack Obama against the Catholic Church and religious freedom.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/02/pelosi-vows-to-stand-with-obama-against-catholic-church-religious-freedom/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/02/pelosi-vows-to-stand-with-obama-against-catholic-church-religious-freedom/)

This twit is a Catholic, right?  The Church could regain much of its credibility if it called a press conference and excommunicated this evil woman!
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: LadyVirginia on February 02, 2012, 06:54:32 PM
Nancy Pelosi vows to stand with Barack Obama against the Catholic Church and religious freedom.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/02/pelosi-vows-to-stand-with-obama-against-catholic-church-religious-freedom/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/02/pelosi-vows-to-stand-with-obama-against-catholic-church-religious-freedom/)

This twit is a Catholic, right?  The Church could regain much of its credibility if it called a press conference and excommunicated this evil woman!


Does the Catholic Church still do exorcisms?
  ::thinking::
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: charlesoakwood on February 02, 2012, 07:02:48 PM

Apparently it doesn't even excommunicate.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Libertas on February 06, 2012, 08:00:55 PM
We're going to have to move this into a new category soon!

“This is going to be fought out with lawsuits, with court decisions, and, dare I say it, maybe even in the streets,” Donohue said.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/02/06/catholic-league-poised-to-go-to-war-with-obama-over-mandatory-birth-control-payments/ (http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/02/06/catholic-league-poised-to-go-to-war-with-obama-over-mandatory-birth-control-payments/)

Amen!

 ::thumbsup::
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: AlanS on February 06, 2012, 08:17:15 PM
“...... dare I say it, maybe even in the streets,” Donohue said.

Are we there yet?
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Libertas on February 06, 2012, 08:28:55 PM
“...... dare I say it, maybe even in the streets,” Donohue said.

Are we there yet?

Damn close, really damn close.  Given the advent of NADA et all, the warning against "extremists" fed up with excessive taxation and regulation, and now religious "extremists"   ::)  joining the fray...I fear they are pushing as hard as they can to trigger an event and plunge us all over the cliff.

Sumbiches should be careful what they wish for, but alas that warning appears to fall on deaf ears.  The insane seem to think they have everything in hand and under control.  It's usually at that point where the fit really hits the shan.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: John Florida on February 06, 2012, 08:31:21 PM
  I think it's time for the Pope to pay a visit to his highness and fix it in public once and for all.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: charlesoakwood on February 06, 2012, 08:33:33 PM

His Ø'ness just lost a minimum of 15% of the moderate vote.

To the tune of ::dancinginthestreets::
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Glock32 on February 06, 2012, 08:56:19 PM

His Ø'ness just lost a minimum of 15% of the moderate vote.

To the tune of ::dancinginthestreets::

Hopefully. But the Catholic tendency to vote Democrat is just like the Jews in the way it is against the interests of both; as Rush likes to point out liberals are liberals first and foremost. Liberalism is their real religion.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: LadyVirginia on February 07, 2012, 10:19:33 AM
Fox News reported this morning that military chaplains were told not to read a letter at Mass on Sunday about it.

Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Libertas on February 07, 2012, 11:33:08 AM
More separation issues...they can tell Duh Wun to stay out of church biz!
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: charlesoakwood on February 07, 2012, 11:40:13 AM

 I think it's time for the Pope to pay a visit to his highness and fix it in public once and for all.
!!


SEBELIUS DISRESPECTS CATHOLICISM (http://www.catholicleague.org/sebelius-disrespects-catholicism/)
...
P.S. I just got back from Florida where I received the “Defender of the Faith Award” from Legatus, the group of Catholic CEO’s founded by Tom Monaghan. Never before have I seen Catholics as riled up as they are about this unprecedented assault on Catholic civil liberties. Stay tuned for further developments.

[The expected Eastwoood ad - And kick his skinny butt back to Chicago.]
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Predator Don on February 07, 2012, 04:24:26 PM
First, I don't want this to sound as if I am disparaging Catholics.......I'm not. But this is what you get when religion allows liberals in leadership positions. You get this when you invite the o in, and don't think he will stab you in the back.

It's happening in all religions, not just the catholic faith. I despise Rick warren for the very same thing. There is no compromise of tenants of faith.....but it's happening in your church today. The social justice message is strong. It is being legitimized. I know more than one person who had no issue with obamas national prayer day twist of scripture.

IT IS WHAT THEY WERE TAUGHT. Thankfully, we have a leader who is stupid enough to step on the one tenant Catholics hold dear. I guess for this we should be thankful.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Pandora on February 07, 2012, 04:37:45 PM
It's what happens when one allows THE LEFT in; there's nothing "liberal" about them and they pervert everything they touch.

Ann Barnhardt had much to say about this regarding the Catholic Church:

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,4707.0.html (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,4707.0.html)
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Glock32 on February 07, 2012, 08:25:01 PM
Quote
It's what happens when one allows THE LEFT in; there's nothing "liberal" about them and they pervert everything they touch.

In Latin, the word for left is "sinister". Seems the Romans had lots of superstitions about "left" being associated with malevolence, hence their word for it (sinister) became better known by us today for this secondary meaning.

There are some things that are looking less and less like coincidence. "The Left" is for sure a force of malevolence. The more it shows its true colors, and the more it shows who and what it considers its enemies, the more I am inclined to acknowledge the symbolism.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Libertas on February 07, 2012, 09:49:08 PM
On that same sinister theme...

The Great One, El Rushbo -

“The Constitution doesn’t matter to the [Obama] regime. The regime is simply saying,’To hell with the Constitution. We’re gonna implement this regardless what the Constitution says!‘
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/02/rush-limbaugh-the-real-target-of-obamas-hhs-birth-control-mandate-is-the-constitution-video/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/02/rush-limbaugh-the-real-target-of-obamas-hhs-birth-control-mandate-is-the-constitution-video/)

Yup!

We are at war with the sinister, and Obama is the ringleader!
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: John Florida on February 08, 2012, 05:12:56 PM
On that same sinister theme...

The Great One, El Rushbo -

“The Constitution doesn’t matter to the [Obama] regime. The regime is simply saying,’To hell with the Constitution. We’re gonna implement this regardless what the Constitution says!‘
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/02/rush-limbaugh-the-real-target-of-obamas-hhs-birth-control-mandate-is-the-constitution-video/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/02/rush-limbaugh-the-real-target-of-obamas-hhs-birth-control-mandate-is-the-constitution-video/)

Yup!

We are at war with the sinister, and Obama is the ringleader!

 He's the hand puppet! It's the ones we don't see that we need to worry about.Remember Beck talking about the "nudge" and then the "Push"to get us all in line.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: charlesoakwood on February 08, 2012, 05:58:18 PM

!
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: charlesoakwood on February 09, 2012, 11:50:32 PM


Quote
Yup!

We are at war with the sinister, and Obama is the ringleader!


Michael Berry Says America Is In The Middle Of A Civil War (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qarQb-1W77E#)

Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Pandora on February 10, 2012, 12:00:56 PM
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/02/mark-levin-slams-obama-on-hannity-video/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/02/mark-levin-slams-obama-on-hannity-video/)

Quote
   This isn’t about women. It’s not about contraception. This is about a president of the United States who has no respect for the Constitution, no respect for the First Amendment, and also has no respect for people of faith – and I’m not trying to be controversial, but there’s no balancing involved here.

    I didn’t know we were having a problem getting contraceptives in this country. I mean they fund Planned Parenthood who hands out this stuff like candy. So there’s really no problem in this country with access. What he’s trying to do is break down that line between church and state in reverse and it’s contemptible!

Anybody remember when during a debate Stephanopolous asked Romney/Santorum about states banning contraceptives when nobody -- certainly not them -- was talking about contraceptives or birth control, leaving us scratching our heads, as in "where the hell did that come from"?

Well, now we know where it came from and why, and the focus is now on birth control and abortion, not the gawdamn mess he's made of the economy and not on him violating the 1st Amendment big time.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Libertas on February 10, 2012, 12:22:20 PM
I did stumble upon that segment last night, I stopeed on that channel only because I saw Levin and wanted to know what he was up to.

He is dead on right.

Our constitution is being shredded again and getting people who should know better to stop it is maddingly difficult.

Rush has been nailing this theme all day too.

What...does...it...take?!?!?!

 ::gaah::
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Pandora on February 10, 2012, 12:28:42 PM
 ::laserkill::
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Pandora on February 10, 2012, 12:32:13 PM
Now there's some dumbass Black congresswoman out there proclaiming that pregnancy is a horrible risk to women's health and to their families.

She obviously is unaware that pregnancy is what MAKES FAMILIES, but nevermind that.

A certain segment of these pro-abort lunatics have been declaiming pregnancy as a treatable disease for decades.  Guess what the treatment is.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Libertas on February 10, 2012, 12:32:56 PM
::laserkill::

Yeah, can't fix tyrannical fools, but we can reduce them to ashes.  I guess it is the only way this will end...because I sure as hell am not surrending to this trash!
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Libertas on February 10, 2012, 12:35:28 PM
Now there's some dumbass Black congresswoman out there proclaiming that pregnancy is a horrible risk to women's health and to their families.

She obviously is unaware that pregnancy is what MAKES FAMILIES, but nevermind that.

A certain segment of these pro-abort lunatics have been declaiming pregnancy as a treatable disease for decades.  Guess what the treatment is.

 ::cussing::  evil!

They got Obongo on the radio, playing that stupid clip about him saying the mandate for coverage is now on insurers', not the organization!  What a load of sh*t!  Who PAYS the bills fothermucker Obama?!  The people you are forcing to accept this encroachment!  Eff them all, keep fighting these jackasses!
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Glock32 on February 10, 2012, 12:43:00 PM
I remember 20 years ago hearing pregnant women referred to as "parasitically oppressed" by the feminists. This was in the early phases of Political Correctness. You hear some things that are just so asinine, yet hostile, and 20 years on you can only wonder in amazement that it was not only laughed out of the room but is in fact running the table on us. Why? I think that Michael Berry clip above has the answer. Because people are always too afraid of saying something because of what they think they might lose (a grade, a job, a client, blah blah).
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Pandora on February 10, 2012, 12:47:03 PM
Now there's some dumbass Black congresswoman out there proclaiming that pregnancy is a horrible risk to women's health and to their families.

She obviously is unaware that pregnancy is what MAKES FAMILIES, but nevermind that.

A certain segment of these pro-abort lunatics have been declaiming pregnancy as a treatable disease for decades.  Guess what the treatment is.

 ::cussing::  evil!

They got Obongo on the radio, playing that stupid clip about him saying the mandate for coverage is now on insurers', not the organization!  What a load of sh*t!  Who PAYS the bills fothermucker Obama?!  The people you are forcing to accept this encroachment!  Eff them all, keep fighting these jackasses!

Yep, heard him braying his jackassery.  So, the insurance companies will have to pay for the "free" stuff; guess where that money will come from?  Why, it will come from people like me and Gunsmith, who already have to pay for "maternity benefits" as a NC state-mandated inclusion in all medical plans.

Rush has been on fire about this since Noon.

Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Pandora on February 10, 2012, 12:50:39 PM
Now, there's this, from Elizabeth Scalia, aka The Anchoress (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/theanchoress/2012/02/10/obama-to-announce-accomodation/) ...

Quote
From Jake Tapper at ABC News, Obama to Announce Contraception Rule ‘Accommodation’ for Religious Organizations:

    With the White House under fire for its new rule requiring employers including religious organizations to offer health insurance that fully covers birth control coverage, at 12:15 p.m. ET, President Obama will announce an attempt to accommodate these religious groups.

    The move, based on state models, will almost certainly not satisfy bishops and other religious leaders since it will preserve the goal of women employees having their birth control fully covered by health insurance.

    Sources say it will be respectful of religious beliefs but will not back off from that goal, which many religious leaders oppose since birth control is in violation of their religious beliefs.

    One source familiar with the decision described the accommodation as “Hawaii-plus,” insisting that it’s better than the Hawaii plan — for both sides.

If memory serves, the Obama team were advised to use the Hawaii plan as some sort of model by which to exempt the churches ‘way back in October of last year. It was rejected, then.

Glenn Reynolds, noting the headline, writes:

    My advice to the bishops: He’s on the run — don’t settle for his opening bid.

I agree with “don’t settle for the opening bid” but am not sure I agree that he is on the run.

Take no first offers, and I’m not sure about second offers, either. The thing is, no matter what Obama says, he has proved himself to be untrustworthy where the rights of the churches are concerned.

The fact that this episode ever developed at all, when it absolutely did not need to, and the fact of Hosanna-Tabor, suggests to me that this administration will continue to assault the rights of churches to be who and what they are, and to freely exercise their religion beyond the doors of the church. Freedom of Religion does not limit us to the confines of the church, but Obama’s stated commitment to “Freedom of Worship” absolutely does; “Freedom of Worship” is a mischaracterization of what the constitution says.

I expect President Obama will come out and say something that sounds wonderful and conciliatory and that seems reasonable to people who are eager to reconcile with the president and give themselves permission to vote for him again in November. I also expect that beyond the words, what the President offers will be too little — the government miserly granting to us pieces of freedom we are utterly entitled to own outright — but it will be “enough” for some.

And with that, Obama will have done the thing he needs to do, here, which is re-divide the Catholics who have apparently surprised him with their nearly unanimous condemnation of his HHS Mandate.

Re-divide and conquer. If he can get the Catholics who have loved and trusted him until now back under his wing, the bishops and the rest of the Catholics go back to being “reactionary neanderthals” who are simply too stubborn to give in to his benevolence.

If that’s what happens — if Obama comes out and throws a sop to the Catholics he has recently stabbed in the back, and they jump at the chance to reboard his ship — then everything immediately gets much, much uglier, everywhere.

But the thing to remember is this: Obama has now demonstrated that he cannot be trusted to deal in good faith with the churches. Even if he gives a “full exemption”, one needs to worry whether he can be trusted if he wins re-election, and is no longer constrained by the need to please anyone.

Then, I suspect Brad Miner’s Facebrook remarks from yesterday will be proved right. He wrote:

    I expect the president to back down — to offer full exemptions to religious organizations. Then, if he wins reelection, we will get a screwing the like of which Catholicism hasn’t seen since the 16th century.

Remember Lucy and the football

UPDATED: My friend Thomas L. McDonald, on Facebook with the WH Fact Sheet:

    I just got the WH press briefing. Money line:

        “The policy also ensures that if a woman works for religious employers with objections to providing contraceptive services as part of its health plan, the religious employer will not be required to provide contraception coverage, but her insurance company will be required to offer contraceptive care free of charge.”

    Meaningless.

Well, Ed Morrissey spells that out:

    “. . .so the administration response will be tell insurers for religious organizations to take on the costs themselves without passing it along to the religious organizations that pay for the policies? I’m not sure that even Chris Matthews will buy that as a “compromise.” Religious organizations whose doctrines oppose birth control are not going to buy insurance policies that cover it — nor should the government be forcing them to do so.

This is not a “direct” co-operation with evil, but an “indirect” one, and now we’ll have to go to Aquinas (I think? I need to brush up) but I’m pretty sure it was Aquinas who reasoned that an “indirect” co-operation with evil was sometimes unavoidable in the world.

I expect it will be “enough” for those whose worldview was shaken over the past week and who want and need to be back on Obama’s side, where it all makes sense again. Their concerns having been “accommodated”, they’ll start offering much deeper theological musing than I can between direct and indirect co-operation with evil, and for most things will become very muddled, and everyone else will go back to watching American Idol.

Missing in their musings, I fear, will be the basic, fundamental truth that — “accommodated” in this way or not — the government does not give us our rights, piecemeal; they come from God.

An “accommodation” that puts us in “indirect” co-operation with evil when our rights say we ought not be forced into any co-operation, direct or not, is a game. It’s the football; it is the willful division.

UPDATE II: And yes, as I suspected, the Catholic Health Association is “very pleased” and back on board the bus, after having been so deftly thrown under it. As he did during the Obamacare debate, the Obama team is once again using a sister to soften the breakers and give the progressive imprimatur:

    The Catholic Health Association is very pleased with the White House announcement that a resolution has been reached that protects the religious liberty and conscience rights of Catholic institutions. The framework developed has responded to the issues we identified that needed to be fixed.

    We are pleased and grateful that the religious liberty and conscience protection needs of so many ministries that serve our country were appreciated enough that an early resolution of this issue was accomplished. The unity of Catholic organizations in addressing this concern was a sign of its importance.

Planned Parenthood, by the way is also very pleased.

That really tells me what this “accommodation” is worth.

And the narrative now becomes: “look at what a great conciliator Obama is, and how obnoxious these church-hardliners are.”

People get played, every day. No one is asking, “why did this president have to make this “accommodation” at all? If he was committed to religious liberty, this controversy would never have occurred at all.

Still waiting for the response of the Bishops, who are now finding themselves squeezed between the bus and the press.

UPDATE III:
Kathryn Jean Lopez: The folks who gave us Obamacare are back

    The Obama administration strategy is consistently to confuse people. That is how the bill we had to pass to find out what was in it came to be law.
    [...]
    There will be a lot of confusion. But don’t be confused, and don’t let people around you be confused. These last days have been instructive [. . .] This new mandate moves us closer to what Pope Benedict XVI warned against in his first encyclical, Deus Caritas Est (“God is Love”): “The state which would provide everything, absorbing everything into itself . . [is]. a state which regulates and controls everything.”

    Religious liberty is not an “accommodation.” This fight is not over today. It has only just begun.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Libertas on February 10, 2012, 01:00:58 PM
"My advice to the bishops: He’s on the run — don’t settle for his opening bid."

This is when you stomp the living sh*t out of him!  No compromise, no surrender, full steam ahead!!!

Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Pandora on February 10, 2012, 01:04:32 PM
"My advice to the bishops: He’s on the run — don’t settle for his opening bid."

This is when you stomp the living sh*t out of him!  No compromise, no surrender, full steam ahead!!!



Wouldn't I love to see it, but I suspect they're going to cave.  And I suspect that because absolutely no one will stand up to this guy, nevermind stomp him.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Libertas on February 10, 2012, 01:08:30 PM
"My advice to the bishops: He’s on the run — don’t settle for his opening bid."

This is when you stomp the living sh*t out of him!  No compromise, no surrender, full steam ahead!!!



Wouldn't I love to see it, but I suspect they're going to cave.  And I suspect that because absolutely no one will stand up to this guy, nevermind stomp him.

They should have their boot twisting on the neck like its putting out a cigarette butt!
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: IronDioPriest on February 10, 2012, 01:47:17 PM
You just know there was a large contingency within the Catholic church that was dying for some justification to enter back into the Leftist fold after King Barack's proclamation. For those, this "accommodation" was a godsend.

It would not surprise me in the least to learn that the hardline proclamation was just part of an overall strategy to make the proclamation, deal with the agitation over it, and then offer this "accommodation" to make it all better, thereby getting exactly what they want: religious institutions paying for contraception against the doctrine of the church, while those same institutions fawn over how "reasonable" the administration is.

"See how reasonable our Leftist masters are? They only try to do what they think is best for their subjects, but when the subjects don't like it, they will make accommodations." That's the story moving forward.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Weisshaupt on February 10, 2012, 01:55:22 PM
You just know there was a large contingency within the Catholic church that was dying for some justification to enter back into the Leftist fold after King Barack's proclamation. For those, this "accommodation" was a godsend.

It would not surprise me in the least to learn that the hardline proclamation was just part of an overall strategy to make the proclamation, deal with the agitation over it, and then offer this "accommodation" to make it all better, thereby getting exactly what they want: religious institutions paying for contraception against the doctrine of the church, while those same institutions fawn over how "reasonable" the administration is.

"See how reasonable our Leftist masters are? They only try to do what they think is best for their subjects, but when the subjects don't like it, they will make accommodations." That's the story moving forward.

Very soon the fed will have ot make accomodations for armed citizens refusing to pay taxes and States leaving the union and using State Militias to defend their citizens rights to not fund the Federal government when that government has declared the document that formed it null and void.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Pandora on February 10, 2012, 02:10:21 PM
Coburn: Debate about birth-control mandate “blown out of proportion” (http://hotair.com/archives/2012/02/09/coburn-debate-about-birth-control-mandate-blown-out-of-proportion/)

Before your BP soars, read the rest of exactly what he said ......

Quote
Oklahoma Republican Sen. Tom Coburn — a stalwart against government overreach — disagrees with the Obama administration’s mandate that even religiously-affiliated employers provide employees with insurance that covers contraception, but he doesn’t think it represents a particularly drastic departure from the president’s other policies.

    “This is blown out of proportion,” he said. “It is an important point in terms of religious liberty, but it’s a consequence of having too big of a government.”

    Coburn acknowledged that the program has “professed benefits,” but said “in the long run we all lose when the government is that involved in our life.”

    “There’s nothing wrong with their motivation — they’re well-meaning people,” he said. “But the consequence is that we lose liberty.”

Perhaps he has a point; after all, it’s not as though this were the first indication we’ve had that the president wants to prescribe what constitutes “health care.” As Daniel Henninger writes in The Wall Street Journal, inflexibility has long been a hallmark of those who seek to transform the nation for the public good:

    Older Americans have sought for years to drop out of Medicare and contract for their own health insurance. They cannot without forfeiting their Social Security payments. They effectively are locked in. Nor can the poor escape Medicaid, even as the care it gives them degrades. Farmers, ranchers and loggers struggled for years to protect their livelihoods beneath uncompromising interpretations of federal environmental laws. They, too, had to comply. University athletic programs were ground up by the U.S. Education Department’s rote, forced gender balancing of every sport offered.

    With the transformers, it never stops. In September, the Obama Labor Department proposed rules to govern what work children can do on farms. After an outcry from rural communities over the realities of farm traditions, the department is now reconsidering a “parental exemption.” Good luck to the farmers.

    The Catholic Church has stumbled into the central battle of the 2012 presidential campaign: What are the limits to Barack Obama’s transformative presidency? The Catholic left has just learned one answer: When Mr. Obama says, “Everyone plays by the same set of rules,” it means they conform to his rules. What else could it mean?

If Coburn had meant that objectors to the mandate are overly dramatic to link it to religious liberty, then I would have vehemently disagreed with him. In that sense, the debate is not “overblown.” But if what he means is that we should have woken up before now — and that this doesn’t fundamentally change the fight we’re waging, which is to repeal Obamacare entirely — then he’s right. An exclusive focus on the Obama administration’s overreach in the case of the contraception mandate just isn’t quite broad enough: We still need complete repeal.

He's wrong about that -- THEY ARE NOT WELL-MEANING PEOPLE.

Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: charlesoakwood on February 10, 2012, 02:27:01 PM

Quote
He's wrong about that -- THEY ARE NOT WELL-MEANING PEOPLE.

He's from the g'mnt and he means well.


Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Pandora on February 10, 2012, 02:30:39 PM

Quote
He's wrong about that -- THEY ARE NOT WELL-MEANING PEOPLE.

He's from the g'mnt and he means well.


Sure.

And I went to bed last night at 4' 10" and woke up this morning a lanky 5' 7".

We're better off presuming none of them mean well -- for us.  They mean well for the benefit of themselves.

Anyway, he's another one who's retiring.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Sectionhand on February 10, 2012, 02:35:54 PM
If Stymiecare is Federal Law how can the administration make these tweaks without congress writing the exceptions and voting on them ... or is that yet to come ?
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: IronDioPriest on February 10, 2012, 02:42:53 PM
If Stymiecare is Federal Law how can the administration make these tweaks without congress writing the exceptions and voting on them ... or is that yet to come ?

They are lawless, that's how. Look at what they did yesterday with "No Child left Behind". An abomination of a law, yes, but it IS the law of the land, passed by both chambers of congress and signed by the exective - you know, the old fashioned way.

But the Obama regime hands out "waivers" to 10 states? Lawless.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Pandora on February 10, 2012, 02:43:42 PM
If Stymiecare is Federal Law how can the administration make these tweaks without congress writing the exceptions and voting on them ... or is that yet to come ?

Silly person, Stymie don't need no Congress ....

Lemme 'splain it to ya:  Stymiecare gave HHS Czarina Sebilius the authority to "decide" ("the Secretary shall decide....") a wide variety of details not spelled out in the 3,000 page bill, including what "religious institutions" means.  Imagine how big the damn bill would have been if they got more specific.

See page two here >>>>

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/290699/gospel-according-obama-charles-krauthammer?pg=2 (http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/290699/gospel-according-obama-charles-krauthammer?pg=2)
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Pandora on February 10, 2012, 02:52:35 PM
If Stymiecare is Federal Law how can the administration make these tweaks without congress writing the exceptions and voting on them ... or is that yet to come ?

They are lawless, that's how. Look at what they did yesterday with "No Child left Behind". An abomination of a law, yes, but it IS the law of the land, passed by both chambers of congress and signed by the exective - you know, the old fashioned way.

But the Obama regime hands out "waivers" to 10 states? Lawless.

You don't know the half of it ....

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,4798.new.html#new (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,4798.new.html#new)
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Pandora on February 10, 2012, 04:44:25 PM
And, of course, we have Mrs. Holy Roman Catholic adding her two cents:

Pelosi: Republicans Want 'to Use the Excuse of Religious Freedom' to Harm 'Women's Health' (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/pelosi-republicans-want-use-excuse-religious-freedom-harm-womens-health)

"The excuse".  The woman is detestable; beneath contempt.

And since when do women have a right to free contraceptives?
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: IronDioPriest on February 10, 2012, 05:24:27 PM
I find it absolutely shocking how the narrative has turned lockstep into Republicans wanting to "harm women", when what is being discussed is a new mandate that has never before existed.

I don't know how these people wake up in the morning, look in the mirror, and live with themselves throughout each day. I would think that the self-loathing would be so overbearing that suicide would be the only solution. The only answer is pure, unadulterated evil.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Alphabet Soup on February 10, 2012, 05:51:19 PM
Since I'm not Catholic (no, I'm not having a Neimuller instant here) I don't really have a dog in this hunt. Sorry (Catholic) folks but this truly is your "come to Jesus" moment. If you do not stand here & now against evil you forfeit any right to future protest.

I want to stand with you but you gotta man up y'all.

Or, as Nancy Reagan once put it...."Just say NO!"

Tom Petty And The Heartbreakers - I Won't Back Down (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnrPP3qkM0E#)
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Pandora on February 10, 2012, 06:08:00 PM
Everybody has to stand up, Soup, Catholics, all other Christians sects, Jews, all other believers and non-believers, to defend the Constitution.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: John Florida on February 10, 2012, 06:49:30 PM
Everybody has to stand up, Soup, Catholics, all other Christians sects, Jews, all other believers and non-believers, to defend the Constitution.

 As much as I agree with that all I can say is good luck with that. This is where the leaders of the churches make a little noise and go away. What this need is for Rome to take a stand here in D.C. on the senate floor where the world can see it and put this baby to sleep once and for all.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Alphabet Soup on February 11, 2012, 12:45:54 AM
I read somewhere that The Lutheran Church is about to weigh in - on side with The Catholic Church. I'll see if I can't find that article. Naturally it isn't going to be universal but if a sufficient number of high-profile voices shout their outrage Øbongo will be forced to back down.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: charlesoakwood on February 11, 2012, 01:42:25 AM

He's a vindictive little bugger, he is.

Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Sectionhand on February 11, 2012, 03:01:09 AM
If Stymiecare is Federal Law how can the administration make these tweaks without congress writing the exceptions and voting on them ... or is that yet to come ?

They are lawless, that's how. Look at what they did yesterday with "No Child left Behind". An abomination of a law, yes, but it IS the law of the land, passed by both chambers of congress and signed by the exective - you know, the old fashioned way.

But the Obama regime hands out "waivers" to 10 states? Lawless.

You don't know the half of it ....

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,4798.new.html#new (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,4798.new.html#new)

I knew I was asking a loaded question but I figured ... what the hell .
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Libertas on February 12, 2012, 12:33:24 PM
Everybody has to stand up, Soup, Catholics, all other Christians sects, Jews, all other believers and non-believers, to defend the Constitution.

And there is only one right answer in this fight, anything else spells certain doom.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: John Florida on February 12, 2012, 12:37:16 PM
And, of course, we have Mrs. Holy Roman Catholic adding her two cents:

Pelosi: Republicans Want 'to Use the Excuse of Religious Freedom' to Harm 'Women's Health' (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/pelosi-republicans-want-use-excuse-religious-freedom-harm-womens-health)

"The excuse".  The woman is detestable; beneath contempt.

And since when do women have a right to free contraceptives?

 For over 2,000 years the Catholic Church has had the same position and for some reason there are still women left among us. You would think that by now we(Catholics) would have killed them all off.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: LadyVirginia on February 12, 2012, 12:51:33 PM
And, of course, we have Mrs. Holy Roman Catholic adding her two cents:

Pelosi: Republicans Want 'to Use the Excuse of Religious Freedom' to Harm 'Women's Health' (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/pelosi-republicans-want-use-excuse-religious-freedom-harm-womens-health)

"The excuse".  The woman is detestable; beneath contempt.

And since when do women have a right to free contraceptives?

 For over 2,000 years the Catholic Church has had the same position and for some reason there are still women left among us. You would think that by now we(Catholics) would have killed them all off.

 ::laughonfloor::

Someone sent this to me yesterday:

Women’s Health = Not Having Babies (http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=26596)
Quote
Of course, all of us have now heard that contraception is a very, very important part of Women’s Health™ (can someone help me register that as a trademark because I think that would be kind of funny if I owned it?).
 
We’ve had this fact pounded into our skulls by the current administration and their media minions.

Women’s Health™ (yes, I’m going to keep writing it like that and in fact, every time you read it I want you to go “Ahhh” in your head in a kind of a sing-songy way like a chorus of angels would if the clouds had just parted and a powerful beam of sunlight was shining down upon the word) is different from regular health.
 
And it’s actually much more important.
 
We have been told repeatedly by our esteemed Commander in Health that it is so important that EVERY insurance program should cover it.  No matter what.
 
Not only should they cover it, but they should cover it WITHOUT a co-pay.
 
Because, you know, asking women to pay $20 for a prescription is evil and horrible and mean and most likely, (cringe) Republican.

Now, say your child has an ear infection or pneumonia, you can pay $20 for that because it’s not a Women’s Health™ issue it’s just a plain-old, regular health issue.
 
If a young mother has a heart condition and needs medication, well she can pay $20 for that too because it is not a matter of Women’s Health™ (“Ahhh…”).  It’s just a matter of regular health.
 
If that same young mother wants to have sex without having a baby, well she damn well better not have to pay $20 for that!  Because as well know, that is a matter of Women’s Health™.
 
So, it seems like Women’s Health™ is all the parts of healthcare that have to do with uteruses (or is it uteri?) and sex and pregnancy and not-getting pregnant and taking pills that might kill babies.
 
Pretty clear, right?
 
Oh wait, but there is one big exception: Women’s Health™ does not cover pregnancy or childbirth or any care related to either one.
 
Nope.  Not one bit.
A bit more at the link.  Be sure to check out the pictures with their amusing captions.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Pandora on February 12, 2012, 01:18:39 PM
Quote
(http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/womens-health-300x257.jpg)

Google thinks balancing yogurt and strawberries are an important part of Women's Health.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: Glock32 on February 13, 2012, 01:26:24 PM
LOL.  Reminds me of this Onion article (http://www.theonion.com/articles/women-now-empowered-by-everything-a-woman-does,1398/).

(http://media.theonion.com/images/articles/article/1398/Women-Now-Empowered_jpg_250x1000_q85.jpg)
San Diego women empower themselves by eating dinner unaccompanied by men.
Title: Re: Catholic Bishops to Obama on health care diktat: Pound sand
Post by: LadyVirginia on February 13, 2012, 01:51:03 PM
LOL.  Reminds me of this Onion article (http://www.theonion.com/articles/women-now-empowered-by-everything-a-woman-does,1398/).

(http://media.theonion.com/images/articles/article/1398/Women-Now-Empowered_jpg_250x1000_q85.jpg)
San Diego women empower themselves by eating dinner unaccompanied by men.

 ::laughonfloor::

Quote
Klein said that clothes-shopping, once considered a mundane act with few sociopolitical implications, is now a bold feminist statement.
 
"Shopping for shoes has emerged as a powerful means by which women assert their autonomy," Klein said. "Owning and wearing dozens of pairs of shoes is a compelling way for a woman to announce that she is strong and independent, and can shoe herself without the help of a man. She's saying, 'Look out, male-dominated world, here comes me and my shoes.'"
 
::laughonfloor::