It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => Faith & Family => Topic started by: IronDioPriest on September 03, 2011, 07:02:55 PM
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I'll not ridicule Christians who believe in or practice speaking in "tongues". I'll just say that from what I've witnessed and read in the Bible, I am not convinced that it is something God wants me to do. So far, at least, it is not for me, and I've been around it enough to say confidently that unless God somehow leads me to believe otherwise, it is something I will not do - even though some fine Christians that I know and love do practice this.
That said, this woman is over the top! TYPING in tongues? C'mon!
‘NDHDIUBGUGTRUCG…!‘
Did Televangelist Juanita Bynum ’Type in Tongues’ on Facebook? (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/ndhdiubgugtrucg-did-televangelist-juanita-bynum-type-in-tongues-on-facebook/)
Oh yes. Yes she did...
::hysterical::
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Pretty much on the same page; I don't know, He hasn't led me there, I don't go there.
But thinking about it, considering that one is faithful and sincerely believes in tongues, would it not
depend on how fluent she is with qwerty. I mean as a faithful person and a musician couldn't playing
a solo that just "takes you away" be considered speaking in another tongue. And if you accept that
then believing texting in tongues, although extremely farfetched, is possible.
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Those who spoke in tongues during Pentecost were said to be speaking in a recognized foreign language. That is, they could be understood by foreigners but not by natives...they spoke in languages that they did not know. I have never seen nor heard of this being demonstrated in modern times. My personal belief is that this particular spiritual gift (like that of healing and prophesy) have been, for reasons known only to God, retired.
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Those who spoke in tongues during Pentecost were said to be speaking in a recognized foreign language. That is, they could be understood by foreigners but not by natives...they spoke in languages that they did not know. I have never seen nor heard of this being demonstrated in modern times. My personal belief is that this particular spiritual gift (like that of healing and prophesy) have been, for reasons known only to God, retired.
As with many things, the rare miracle is drowned out by the army of phonies.
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Pretty much on the same page; I don't know, He hasn't led me there, I don't go there.
But thinking about it, considering that one is faithful and sincerely believes in tongues, would it not
depend on how fluent she is with qwerty. I mean as a faithful person and a musician couldn't playing
a solo that just "takes you away" be considered speaking in another tongue. And if you accept that
then believing texting in tongues, although extremely farfetched, is possible.
No, this is a false argument. When a musician plays a solo he knows what he is playing and the astute listener knows what he is hearing.
Thanks Trap.
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Pretty much on the same page; I don't know, He hasn't led me there, I don't go there.
But thinking about it, considering that one is faithful and sincerely believes in tongues, would it not
depend on how fluent she is with qwerty. I mean as a faithful person and a musician couldn't playing
a solo that just "takes you away" be considered speaking in another tongue. And if you accept that
then believing texting in tongues, although extremely farfetched, is possible.
No, this is a false argument. When a musician plays a solo he knows what he is playing and the astute listener knows what he is hearing.
Thanks Trap.
Not sure if you are saying that my argument is false or someone else's since you didn't quote me...but I did preface my point with, "My personal belief is..."
I have no illusions about being a biblical or scriptural scholar.
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As I was reading your post the flaw of my argument became apparent.
I was saying my original argument was false and by reading your post that fact became clear.
The thanks was sincere.
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I see.
The whole spiritual gifts subject is often fraught with deep and serious beliefs on both sides of the issue. I try to tread carefully when discussing it. I have my opinion, I believe it to be scripturally based but others see it differently. That's life.
That said, I believe that miracles happen. I do, though, have a problem with the notion that someone's spirituality is in question or not what it could be, etc. if they do not demonstrate one or more of the "charismatic" spiritual gifts. In fact, I find it odd that no one gets excited that they or someone else may have one of the "lesser" spiritual gifts such as teaching, serving or helps. The emphasis with some always seems to revolve around the flashier spiritual gifts such as tongues, healing or prophecy.
Personally, prophecy is pretty scary when you read the very serious admonitions in scripture against false prophets and the extremely serious consequences for being a false prophet and/or issuing a false prophecy.
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Those who spoke in tongues during Pentecost were said to be speaking in a recognized foreign language. That is, they could be understood by foreigners but not by natives...they spoke in languages that they did not know. I have never seen nor heard of this being demonstrated in modern times. My personal belief is that this particular spiritual gift (like that of healing and prophesy) have been, for reasons known only to God, retired.
As with many things, the rare miracle is drowned out by the army of phonies.
And welcome back...glad you decided to give it another shot.
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As with many things, the rare miracle is drowned out by the army of phonies.
No doubt.
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I remember back in my stoner days, I'd get home about 4 AM from playing a show in some nightclub, and flip on the TV to see what was on. In those days, cable TV was still a burgeoning technology, and there were very few channels to choose from. One of the mainstays for that time slot was the televangelist Robert Tilton. Kinda looks like Count Dracula.
He'd say, "Put your hand on the TV screen and pray with me. I feel the Holy Spirit telling me that someone out there is suffering from ______________. In the name of JESUS, you are released...." Then his eyes would roll back, and he'd say something like, "Ahhhhhshalabahacamasachamakamabradajalakamahama...." Then he'd look confused for a split second, and then suddenly "snap-to", with a big wide grin, and say, "That was the Lord, speaking through me in tongues, and He wants you to know__________________."
We used to have laughing fits over bong-hits.
Since then, I became a born again Christian many years later, and was exposed to very good, sincere people who obviously love Jesus, and who believe the Bible says for them to speak in tongues. They've tried to show me the places where the Bible says to do what they do, and to my way of reasoning, one has to stretch so dang far to get there, it makes no sense whatsoever. They'll go as far as to say that in order to receive this "gift", you have to practice it alone in your prayer time.
Practice? By babbling and calling it "heavenly language"? To receive a gift from the Holy Spirit? I don't get it. I will not pass judgment on others who do claim to get it, but I do not get it.
Could God make me speak in tongues? As surely as He is my Lord. But He's never done so yet, and I'm not going to pretend.
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As I understand it, Speaking in tongues is a spiritual gift From God.
Some, but not all, receive this gift
I don't know if one has the gift that one can turn it on at will, likeing choosing to speak Fremch
And, as far as miracles, I don't think they were limited to the Biblical time
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As I understand it, Speaking in tongues is a spiritual gift From God.
Some, but not all, receive this gift...
That's exactly why I have a problem with some of the more pentecostal churches that "turn it on".
It's like, "Ok people now's the time to speak in tongues," and everybody starts doing it at once. A church I went to even had instructions on how to practice.
That's just not a "gift" to my way of thinking.
And, as far as miracles, I don't think they were limited to the Biblical time
Me either. I have witnessed events that can be explained no other way, and heard of many others.
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Is a sign to one from God a miracle?
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Is a sign to one from God a miracle?
"A surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency."
That's what my dictionary says. I would say yes.
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Is a sign to one from God a miracle?
"A surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency."
That's what my dictionary says. I would say yes.
Hmmm. By that definition, my experience would not apply for "miracle". How 'bout just a Sign, considering God may use a convenient "coincidence"?
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Is a sign to one from God a miracle?
"A surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency."
That's what my dictionary says. I would say yes.
Hmmm. By that definition, my experience would not apply for "miracle". How 'bout just a Sign, considering God may use a convenient "coincidence"?
Well.... If God does it, then it's not a coincidence, hmm?
::praying:: ::stirpot:: ::thinking::
I think I know the kind of thing you're thinking of - a coincidence so incredible, that it defies probability to a degree that seems to defy possibility. The kind of event that in retrospect, the wonder and amazement grows rather than diminishes. Where over time, a wondering about the hand of God becomes a certainty - the only logical explanation.
When I am convinced that the very hand of God is at work and in evidence, influencing events in the world or my life from His heavenly throne, I call that a miracle.
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Is a sign to one from God a miracle?
"A surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency."
That's what my dictionary says. I would say yes.
Hmmm. By that definition, my experience would not apply for "miracle". How 'bout just a Sign, considering God may use a convenient "coincidence"?
Well.... If God does it, then it's not a coincidence, hmm?
::praying:: ::stirpot:: ::thinking::
No, I believe not; that's why I used quote-marks.
I think I know the kind of thing you're thinking of - a coincidence so incredible, that it defies probability to a degree that seems to defy possibility. The kind of event that in retrospect, the wonder and amazement grows rather than diminishes. Where over time, a wondering about the hand of God becomes a certainty - the only logical explanation.
When I am convinced that the very hand of God is at work and in evidence, influencing events in the world or my life from His heavenly throne, I call that a miracle.
Yes! And You Betcha! And it immediately smacked me in the head that way, and with such surety it was stunning.
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G o o d . A r t i c l e:
THE NATURE OF TONGUES
By James Akin
source: link (http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9804chap.asp)
Ever since 1906 Azusa Street Revival in Los Angeles, from which the current Pentecostal and charismatic movements flow, speaking in tongues has been the subject of controversy. Some of the confusion concerns the nature of the gift. One idea is that tongues is a mode of utterance that can be understood by anyone regardless of his native language. Another is that tongues are a "private prayer language" that is uniquely created by the Holy Spirit for each tongues-speaker.
Neither idea is correct, and both stem from a failure to appreciate what the word "tongues" means. Contemporary English speakers often look on the term as if it were mysterious and hard to understand. It's not. When discussing speech, "tongues" has a simple and established meaning. It just means "languages." Obviously, the word tongue can refer to the physical organ in our mouths. This organ is part of human anatomy, and every language has a word for it. But because of the association the tongue has with our power of speech, the tongue is invariably used as a metaphor for the manner of speech. Thus in almost every language the word for tongue is the same as the word for language. We speak of "the Spanish tongue," "the French tongue," and so forth. Over time, this usage became less common in English, and the word "language" has become dominant. That is why the term "tongues" can sound mysterious. We don't use it to refer to languages most of the time anymore. Today, for English speakers, "tongue" more often will bring to mind the physical organ rather than the idea of a language.
Confusion is also caused by the fact that English Bibles switch back and forth between "tongue" and "language," even though they are translating the single Greek word glossa. It would be clearer if they were consistent in using the term "language," allowing us to talk about the gift of languages and to read in our Bibles of the apostles and the early Christians speaking in languages. By keeping in mind that this is what Scripture means, we more easily can understand what "tongues" is. It is an supernatural endowment by which one is able to speak in another language. One may not understand what one is saying (Paul suggests that people should pray to be able to interpret what is said in tongues; 1 Cor. 14:13-14). The content of one's speech is determined by the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4), so one's own understanding is not essential, as it is in normal speech. This corrects the first misunderstanding of the gift: If tongues could be understood by all listeners, no matter what language they spoke, then Paul would not exhort people to pray for the gift of interpretation.
The second misunderstanding of the gift-that tongues is a spontaneous, Spirit-created "private prayer language"-is rebuffed by the text of Scripture. As the multinational crowd gathered on the day of Pentecost showed, the languages in which the apostles spoke were real human languages that could be understood by anyone who spoke them (Acts 2:11). This has prompted some Pentecostals and charismatics to assert that the gift of tongues in Acts is different from the gift of tongues mentioned by Paul, but there is no basis for that. The claim would appear to be rooted in many Pentecostals' and charismatics' awareness that what they are speaking in is not a real language (not to say that the gift of tongues doesn't occur; it does, just not as frequently as some claim). Paul nowhere hints that the phenomenon he refers to as "speaking in languages" (Greek, glossais lalon, from which we get "glossalalia") is different from the phenomenon his companion Luke referred to by the same name when writing Acts.
Paul speculates that a person might be given the superlative gift of speaking a language used by angels (1 Cor. 13:1). But, in context, it is not clear that Paul thinks it a real possibility. He posits it as the greatest imaginable kind of tongues, parallel to knowing all mysteries and knowledge (the greatest imaginable extent of prophecy, 13:2a), having faith that can move mountains (the greatest imaginable gift of faith, 13:2b), and giving away all one's possessions and delivering one's body to be burned (the greatest imaginable expression of selflessness, 13:3). Paul isn't saying that speaking in angelic languages occurs (or even that angels have languages). He is using Middle Eastern hyperbole to say, "Even if I could speak in the tongues of angels, that would not profit me if I did not have love."
He portrays speaking in languages of angels as something that would be extreme and rare, if it occurs at all. That means tongues normally will be ordinary human languages. They certainly would not be unique, divinely-invented languages for the believer and God alone-something that would be even more special than angelic languages
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It originated in California in 1906.
OK, that tells me everything I need to know.
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The thing that bothers me...how do you really know who is on the other end of the line?
::whatgives::
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It originated in California in 1906.
OK, that tells me everything I need to know.
I believe he said much of the controversey started then, not tounges themselves.
The thing that bothers me...how do you really know who is on the other end of the line?
::whatgives::
You can never really prove that a miracle took place, but you can weed out a lot of the fakes.
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[blockquote]The Pentecostal "speaking in tongues" (http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/currenterrors/pentcsl.htm)
Pentecostal:what is sometimes called classical pentecostalism grew out of the late 19th century holiness movement in the united states. The holiness preacher charles fox parham began preaching (1901) to his topeka congregation that speaking in tongues was objective evidence of baptism in the spirit. After the los angeles mission of parham's apostolic faith sect became the center of a great revival (1906) the movement quickly spread around the world. Over the next two decades the movement split along doctrinal and racial lines. Of the many pentecostalist denominations in the united states today, characterized by belief in the experience of holiness or christian perfection. This perfection is climaxed by an "infilling of the holy spirit," as evidenced by "speaking in tongues," ecstatic utterances frequently unintelligible to listeners,
[/blockquote]
My understanding of speaking in tongues is as has been said, "Those who spoke in tongues during Pentecost were said to be speaking in a recognized foreign language. That is, they could be understood by foreigners but not by natives...they spoke in languages that they did not know."
In ignorance I had thought that Pentecostalism was a continued practice from the beginning not something "perceived" by a Kansas preacher. No disrespect to Pentecostals but this enlightening information causes it to be a no go for me.
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I went looking for a quick youtube to demonstrate what speaking in tongues sounds and looks like for those who may not have any experience to inform them re; what we're discussing here. But instead, I found this ABC report, and as a tongues skeptic, I found it quite interesting. This piece explores tongues from a scientific point of view, taking a surprisingly neutral journalistic position. The MRI brain-scan stuff comes after the first few minutes. I won't say that it demonstrates what the Christian folk say it demonstrates, but it does show some interesting things to contemplate.
Speaking in Tongues Medical Study proves Holy Spirit praying (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZbQBajYnEc#noexternalembed)