In the two years since that essay was posted here, the price of gold has increased more than 60%, and the price of silver has exploded by nearly 200%. In consequence of which, your Curmudgeon must now direct your attention to the following:
(http://www.eternityroad.info/images/uploads/WalkingLibertyCopper.jpg)
That's right: Copper. Even silver, for a long spell "the poor man's gold," is now too expensive for the average American to purchase in quantity, as an inflation hedge and a disaster reserve. Partly because of the explosion in its price, and partly because those who have it have become increasingly reluctant to sell it for paper dollars, the rate of trade in silver rounds has fallen off dramatically. The copper rounds in the photo above are currently selling for about $1.35 each in modest quantities. Trade in them appears brisk
...
Please, please, please: If you missed the run-up in silver, don't miss the one about to occur in copper. Copper has already climbed 40% in price in the last year. If it's within your means, buy a thousand ounces or so and put them in a safe, dry place.
There was a piece on Fran Porretto's site a little bit ago about the rising cost of copper and copper coins available as the, for now, still affordable form of wealth conservation.
I'll hunt it up if anyone's interested.
Copper combined with zinc is gonna be real valuable indeed....
Gold: 1487.10
Silver: 43.04
Daaayyyymmm. Shoulda bought more.
You would think at some point the remaining independents not yet abandoning Obama & the Dem's will be doing so in droves if the pain increases enough. Frankly I think the level is intolerable, but jeesh, what's it take for some people to completely break away from these fools and say enough is enough?!
Meanwhile Barry just keeps going to fund raisers to fleece the faithful and BS people into believing all of this misery is all for their own good!
::)
You would think at some point the remaining independents not yet abandoning Obama & the Dem's will be doing so in droves if the pain increases enough. Frankly I think the level is intolerable, but jeesh, what's it take for some people to completely break away from these fools and say enough is enough?!
Meanwhile Barry just keeps going to fund raisers to fleece the faithful and BS people into believing all of this misery is all for their own good!
::)
Continuing the tangential: IIRC, day before yesterday $32K a plate, yesterday $36K a plate, today $1500 a plate with Jamie Fox and tonight $36K a plate and you get face time.
You would think at some point the remaining independents not yet abandoning Obama & the Dem's will be doing so in droves if the pain increases enough. Frankly I think the level is intolerable, but jeesh, what's it take for some people to completely break away from these fools and say enough is enough?!
Meanwhile Barry just keeps going to fund raisers to fleece the faithful and BS people into believing all of this misery is all for their own good!
::)
Continuing the tangential: IIRC, day before yesterday $32K a plate, yesterday $36K a plate, today $1500 a plate with Jamie Fox and tonight $36K a plate and you get face time.
I wouldn't give a stool sample to see him choke on his teleprompter. ::cussing::
Are markets going higher? Based on what? Expectations on a forward basis and general bullishness are ridiculously high. Profit projections are for $100 on the SPX for the year. Really? With all the input cost pressures already in the cake and unable to come back out for six to nine months?
This was exactly what I was warning about last August when this pattern began to be evident - that those who chased and continued to pile in would eventually get their heads cut off.
Sure, if you just bought with cash back then you're doing fine. But far too many people did not. They kept adding off their paper "profits" - margin debt is at extremely high levels, as people piled in more and more as prices rose.
Well, now there's a problem and it's especially bad if you're in a levered instrument such as the futures markets.
You buy a contract that controls $50,000 of the underlying with a margin of $5,000. The contract's value goes up 10%. You now have a 100% profit against your margin. You take that and buy another contract.
What happens if the price goes back to the original level? You're in trouble, that's what.
Not only is your original $5,000 margin "profit" gone but so is another $5,000, even though price just round-tripped up and then down! That is, you're now broke as your entire original stake has evaporated into the ether, even though prices are right back to where they were.
If you think this isn't common, you're very wrong. It is. Traders blow up in this fashion all the time. It's idiotic, but it happens on virtually every prolonged move where leverage becomes the gist of the action. It happened to real estate speculators during the real estate bubble, it happened to tech speculators during the 1990s and now it's happening again.
Might this "stop" at some point before the market really unwinds? It might. But there's no guarantee that it will. In fact, there's plenty of reason to believe it won't - that margin calls will in fact beget more margin calls.
In 2008, these sorts of margin-unwind trades are what fostered the instability that ultimately blew up in everyone's face. The systemic imbalances in the system are worse now than they were in early 2008, and the policy response available to attempt to stop a collapse are nearly all spent.
Rickl, glad you're back. Do you have a new one?
Just be aware that you're buying into a margin liquidation, and if the "Cheap Money" disappears, you're going to be dealing with a lot of sleepless nights.
The Bernank said QE2 ends this summer. This may be a big dipper.Thats only ending the QE that they are telling the public about. I suspect the Plunge team has their own line of QE access.
And an interesting lag/lead analysis on oil & the dollar -
The chart below (http://www.kitco.com/ind/Wagner/may192011.html) is a daily chart of spot gold. Within this chart is 2 Fibonacci retracement sequences. The longer of the two sequences begins in February 2011 following the January correction (1308). The high for both sequences is the record top of 1577. Using a technique known as Fibonacci harmonics we look for points in which these two Fibonacci sequences overlap or are very close in price.
(http://www.kitco.com/ind/Wagner/images/may192011_4.jpg)
There is a harmonic band at 1479/1474. The 38% retracement of our long sequence is 1474 and the 50% retracement of our short sequence is 1479. Gold would trade to an intraday low of 1461, however on a closing basis gold never traded below 1474. This harmonic band would prove to be a strong support level. As of now 1461 could very well be the low of this correction. Based on our current Elliott wave count after the conclusion of this corrective wave we will begin a final impulse wave.
""Endless" Investigation Of Silver Manipulation"
They'll get their man. This is how they got the Bass brothers. What they were doing was legal until "they" decided it was illegal and busted them. hmmm, think it was the Carter people that nabbed them.
May 17, 2011[/blockquote]
...
Billionaire financier George Soros, who called gold "the ultimate bubble", dumped almost his entire $US800 million ($757 million) stake in bullion in the first quarter, well before a commodities slump blamed partly on reports he was liquidating his holdings.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/ultimate-bubble--soros-sells-out-of-gold-20110517-1equp.html#ixzz1OWH7NtJq (http://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/ultimate-bubble--soros-sells-out-of-gold-20110517-1equp.html#ixzz1OWH7NtJq)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2011/05/31/good-as-gold-george-soros-sells-the-metal-buys-the.aspx (http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2011/05/31/good-as-gold-george-soros-sells-the-metal-buys-the.aspx)
May 31, 2011
Even the most successful investors in the world can't agree on how to interpret this. John Paulson is buying gold. George Soros, selling. ...
But there is a better way to invest in gold now. Just watch Soros. Soros is selling his gold but buying miners.
His readers must be asking wtf they are subscribing to this clown!
Yeah, that doesn't smell good to me...getting to the source means he has more leverage to manipulate and control...I don't like Darth Soros having control over squat!
Seriously, I cannot stand that man, and I cannot say what I really think, but this is an ominous move IMO and one which could have major implications for just about everybody.
Yeah, that doesn't smell good to me...getting to the source means he has more leverage to manipulate and control...I don't like Darth Soros having control over squat!
Seriously, I cannot stand that man, and I cannot say what I really think, but this is an ominous move IMO and one which could have major implications for just about everybody.
Soros sold mostly paper holdings. You have to rememeber that not all gold on Comex is backed by physical metal. If you are investing in Gold any you aren't holding, then you better be playing manimpulation/momentum/short-term plays. Eventually the demand for the physcial metal will result in a game of musical chairs, and its best to have your chair in hand if you are going to be playing for the long haul.
Who is Tyler Durden?
Zero Hedge is interesting and thoughtful but I can't find information about the authors.
What am I missing?
SINGAPORE, June 22 (Reuters) - Gold edged down on Wednesday ahead of the outcome of a U.S. Federal Reserve meeting,[/blockquote] ::hysterical::
...
* The Fed is expected to cut its growth forecast for 2011,
but Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke probably will continue to argue
the slowdown is temporary.
...focus for the moment has turned to the Wednesday afternoon conclusion of the Federal Open Market Committee meeting and Fed Chairman Bernanke's press conference following the meeting.[/blockquote]
[blockquote]Quote...focus for the moment has turned to the Wednesday afternoon conclusion of the Federal Open Market Committee meeting and Fed Chairman Bernanke's press conference following the meeting.[/blockquote]
Comex Gold Drops Below $1,500.00 in Late-Session Selling Spree[/blockquote]
24 June 2011, 01:29 p.m.
By Jim Wyckoff
Of Kitco News
http://www.kitco.com/ (http://www.kitco.com/)
(Kitco News) - August Comex gold futures dropped sharply lower in late-session U.S. trading Friday, with prices dropping below pyschologically important support at $1,500.00. Prices had hit a low of $1,498.50 as of this writing. A firmer U.S. dollar index and weaker crude oil prices in late trading Friday added to the bearish sentiment in gold. Near-term chart damage has been inflicted in gold futures late this week as a five-month-old uptrend line on the daily bar chart has at least temporarily been negated as prices also closed at a technically bearish weekly low close on Friday
Your average large crude carrier has an operating cost of $60,000 per day. It takes 10 extra days to deliver crude at the LOOP [Louisiana] versus Rotterdam (5 days in, 5 days out). Therefore there is an opportunity cost of $600k to make a USA delivery.[/blockquote]
This is the equivalent of another 65 cents on the Brent spread. As of today the adjusted Bent/LLS discount is $3.85. That comes to about $4 million on a 1mm brl. [one tanker ship] cargo.
The obvious conclusion from the Greek shipper is that cargoes are going to be diverted away from Louisiana as result of the negative spread. There is big money to be made.
The DX is 78.3% comprised of European currencies, with the Euro itself being the majority of the entire basket. Thus, if Europe collapses and we collapse, we will both be sucking together, but the relative mathematical relationship between the currencies might not change that much. If The Captain jumps out of a plane and two seconds later Toni Tennille jumps out of the same plane, they will be plummeting toward the ground at the same speed with only the two-second lag between their respective jumps between them. But they will both be falling.[/blockquote]
So, if today a loaf of bread in the U.S. costs $3.00 and that same loaf of bread costs 2.13 Euros, that means that the Euro exchange rate is 1.41 Euros per Dollar.
If our economies implode and hyper inflation kicks in, that same loaf of bread might cost $3000.00 and the loaf in Europe might cost 2200.00 Euros. That would be an exchange rate of 1.36 Euros per Dollar. That's not much difference on a relative basis, huh? Does that mean that the Dollar has strengthened against the Euro and therefore everything is awesome? Of course not, but that is EXACTLY the line of taurusfimus that the *Combine would get on TV and spew.
So how do we measure these fiat currencies as a whole? How do we cut the taurusfimus and get down to the nitty-gritty? WHAT IS THE NITTY-GRITTY?
Gold.
We know that all fiat currencies all over the world are getting their butts kicked collectively and that inflation is happening even though they are strengthening relative to the Dollar because Gold is $1580 per ounce. The whole thing is collapsing with the Dollar leading the way simply because it is historically weak relative to the basket. Yes, the Canadians are loving the relative relationship to the Dollar, but the entire system is still falling. And in my $3000 loaf of bread example, gold would probably be trading for something like $1,600,000 per ounce assuming a very simplistic linear relationship. That would tend to get people's attention, don't you think?
Now do you see why Bernanke wants to delegitimize gold and denied that it was money today? Gold is what shines the light of truth on our economic and inflationary situation. Gold is the bottom-line metric. If the Combine can get rid of or otherwise suppress the measuring stick, they can convince The Captain and Toni Tennille that they aren't falling, everything is fine, and no, you don't need to deploy a parachute, because LOOK! You aren't moving relative to each other, so therefore you must not be moving at all.
Love, love will keep us together, think of me babe when . . . SPLAT.
Unless a miracle appears out of nowhere to save the Eurozone and its fake paper currency, we expect $2,000 by the end of the year in gold, while silver should promptly regain its all time nominal highs of just over $50.
It's really getting hard to hang on, considering I bought all mine in the 90's.
Berlin, ...A leading member of Chancellor Angela Merkel's[/blockquote]
government called Tuesday for cash-strapped eurozone members to use
their gold reserves as collateral for any future bailouts, according to dpa.
Labour Minister Ursula von der Leyen said in the future that money
from the European Union-led rescue fund should only be paid out when
the states receiving the assistance provided collateral.
Von der Leyen believes that the gold reserves and industrial
holdings held by many nations could be used as collateral for loans,
according to information from German public television. ...
...
[/blockquote]
CME Next (http://af.reuters.com/article/metalsNews/idAFL4E7JP00620110825?sp=true)
Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:12am GMT
... while a margin hike in COMEX gold may further weigh on sentiment.
More form the "Holy sh*t!" files courtesy of ZeroHedge -
First, the gold/confidence ratio, exhibiting "head & shoulders pattern", we can discuss the assumptions and actual level gold may hit, that it is going up is undeniable...this statement sums it all up quite succinctly - "For the bubble to deflate, the debt must disappear, or the gold price must rise." Anybody think much debt is going away?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-rise-and-fall-us-confidence-or-why-fair-value-gold-phase-space-6000-12000 (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-rise-and-fall-us-confidence-or-why-fair-value-gold-phase-space-6000-12000)
Second, silver is poised for another run, possibly hitting $50 this fall. Lots of good info & charts!
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/silver-ready-breakout-technicals-and-fundamentals-suggest-50oz-early-autumn (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/silver-ready-breakout-technicals-and-fundamentals-suggest-50oz-early-autumn)
And there are whispers in the wind that QE3 is poised to release on or about September 21st, so once that gets factored in these two could experience much stronger increases.
ETA - Oh, and BPP at 4% & rising seems it will also be more gas for the fire...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/annual-inflation-hits-4 (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/annual-inflation-hits-4)
Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/25/us-imf-idUSTRE78N1JE20110925)
Let's start doing something,'" said Austan Goolsbee, formerly chief White House economic advisor.
"I mean, they're not actually doing anything. They just keep agreeing that they're going to work in concert."
The break has provoked a great deal of suspicion. Veteran Ross Norman, now of the U.K. gold-dealing site Sharps Pixley, remarked of the sellers: “Placing such a huge order into the market when the least number of market participants were active tells you that they were out for dramatic effect. Anyone looking to offload significant amounts of metal at the best possible price would have done so when both London and New York were both [open]. … Clearly finessing gold into the market was not their motive — they wanted a statement.“
LCH.Clearnet To Accept Gold As Collateral (http://www.kitco.com/reports/KitcoNewsMarketNuggets20111006.html)
(Kitco News) - LCH.Clearnet, the London-based clearing house, says it will begin to accept gold bullion as eligible collateral by the end of the month, subject to final regulatory approval. The firm says by offering gold for margin liability, it gives its market participants more flexibility. The initiative is supported by the World Gold Council, who recently submitted evidence to the Basel Committee for gold to be included in banks' "Tier 1" assets by European banking regulators. The gold will be lodged in vaults in London. The quality and fineness of the 400-troy ounce gold bars will be based on the LBMA Good Delivery List. In December 2010, LCH.Clearnet launched the first clearing service for the over-the-counter wholesale London gold market in a joint initiative with the London Metal Exchange.
By Debbie Carlson of Kitco News dcarlson@kitcodotcom
14 October 2011, 2:16 p.m.
In the Kitco (http://www.kitco.com/) News Gold Survey, out of 34 participants, 25 responded this week. Of those 25 participants, 21 see prices up, while three see prices down and one sees prices sideways or unchanged. Market participants include bullion dealers, investment banks, futures traders and technical chart analysts.
5238
"DO NOT SHORT AN INFLATING MARKET. "
Forget the puts and calls and change the nomenclature to owning
a commodity. To me it is some of the most concise advice on
how to evaluate your situation.
"The volume is there, but it is all big hedge funds and computer-driven trading schemes. The actual, real PEOPLE are few and far between. Given this, there is going to be hard-core volatility and there will be downside movements within the context of general choppiness. But the inflationary trend will probably continue."
These times we see this day to day and week through week.
"Why in the WORLD would youshort[sell what you own in] an inflating market? Why would you convert your valuable, real cashcattle[commodity] back into U.S. dollars by selling themon the board? As themarket[commodities]grinds higher (which may turn into GALLOPING higher at any time) not only are you no longer hedged against the inflation [you no longer have your commodity that will increase in value], but you are alsoin the worst possible cash flow position of having to take what fiat currency you have and send it to Chicago in the form of margin calls.[are stuck with fiat currency instead of something that will increase in value along with inflation.]
That's what I read. If I went off the rails I'm all ::ears::
Charles has it right. Inflation and debasement is killing the dollar, the murderers are the Fed & Treasury, the vultures are the big traders, the easily fleeced are us little nibblers who dare buy on margin. Converting an inflation hedge into a declining currency is nuts. When the downward trend is pronounced and perceived to be not changing direction anytime soon the only smart play is to hold the commodity, at least you are protected from eroding value.
Depends. How long can I keep a side of beef viable?!
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11346767/1/gold-prices-fight-to-recover-after-carnage.html
"Was it panic selling?" Asks Jeffrey Wright, senior research analyst at Global Hunter Securities. "No, more program selling that overwhelmed the bids that were in the system." Wright thinks gold's massacre and subsequent volatility is predicated on short term headlines and a lack of resolution out of Europe as well as light volume. "As we get closer to holidays there are less market participants and less on the retail side ... when you have a sharp event and you don't have the breadth of market liquidity it can make these moves sharper because there is no one to participate."
Unleaded up to $3.044. That would put price to the station, in Minnesota, of around $3.55. A likely increase soon to the $3.799 range.
Friday is usually gouge day, more often than not. It can't stay in the 3.40's for long. $3.699 maybe?
During the 493 months since January 1, 1971, the price of WTI has averaged Au0.0732/bbl. It has been higher than that during 225 of those months and lower than that during 268 of those months. Plotted as a graph, the line representing the price of a barrel of oil in terms of gold has crossed the horizontal line representing the long-term average price (Au0.0732/bbl) 29 times. (http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2012/02/22/gasoline-prices-are-not-rising-the-dollar-is-falling/)
Please take special note of comments by "credittrader", he knows his stuff!
Yeah, some of the more unabashed speculators replicate what some of the large central bank & borkerage houses predatory practices, there is legitimate uses for hedge plays, but by and large the Ron Paul hardcore ZH commenter despises pretty much all of them.
So, what is wrong all of a sudden with paying your bills even if it has to be in gold? Seizing assets that are pledged in a loan agreement is one of the foundations of our banking systems. How does this all of a sudden become something dispicable like 'plundering"?
Ratboy. Are bailouts and quantative easings part of the foundation of our banking systems?
Yes they are. The sooner that you can accept those facts that the sooner you will be able to make rational decisions about the world and your own finances.
Some bucks aren't worth the Karma the cost.
Oil is up, as Brent is the proxy for Mid-East oil and has been rising.
http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/commodities/futures/ (http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/commodities/futures/)
For gas, growing demand in emerging markets is driving demand more than anything.
Gold is AUsome, they can only play so many games, it's value has nothing but upward pressure. As soon as it hits new recent highs, some will cash out for fiat currency, which if they aren't converting it to something equally valuable...I see no point.
The money quote:
[blockquote] Interviewer: If he [Corzine} gets off doing this scott free without any investigation [uh, how about a criminal conviction??], what does that say to the future?
Koutoulas: It says that you should get your money out of the U.S. financial system, because people can go in and take money out of not just a bank account, but something that is supposed to be much safer than a bank account, and have no repercussions, and this cannot stand. And if it does, America's financial system is not safe for anybody.
Hat tip: Warren Pollock
[/blockquote]
Has JP Morgan Looted Accounts During Previous Bankruptcies? Lehman Brothers and Lessons Not Learned (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymFiZDKD1W0#ws)
The beginning:
Koutoulas Faces Reality: Financial System Toast
Posted by Ann Barnhardt - March 21, AD 2012 1:43 PM MST
Remember James Koutoulas? He's the Roy Orbison-looking guy who ran a hedge fund and got raped by MF Global. Mr. Koutoulas was also a lawyer, so he decided to dust off his J.D. and fight in court, and became a "voice of the customers." When I shut Barnhardt Capital Management down in November of 2011, he criticized me for not sticking around and fighting it out - which is a very faulty argument because I and all brokers are basically HELPLESS to defend client funds with FCMs, and because I would be risking not just my own money, but orders of magnitude more at risk would be MY CLIENTS' funds. My client book value ranged from twenty to sixty times my personal posted capital, which is very standard. The capital I had to post personally was basically to protect my clearing firm against two things: a big trading error on my part, OR a client skipping out on a deficit balance. It's one thing to lay down your own chips. It is quite another to cavalierly lay down someone else's chips. Big, big moral difference there.
Well, Mr. Koutoulas, after staring down the beast from inside the pit for these last five months, has reached the same conclusion that I reached two weeks after the MF Global collapse. The U.S. financial system is irretrievably broken. All hands abandon ship.
I don't know who the interviewer is, but his "sympathy for Corzine" schtick is total bee-ess. You can't "temporarily steal" someone else's funds to finance your suicidally stupid house accounts. There is nothing, and I mean NOTHING that justifies monkeying around with customer money. This moral equivocation crap has got to stop.
We don’t know exactly how much fiat the Fed has printed in that time, and won’t know until a full and comprehensive audit is finally enacted, but we do know that the amount is at the very least in the tens of trillions.
Bilateral trade agreements between China, Russia, Japan, India, and other countries, especially those within the ASEAN trading bloc, are slowly but surely removing the dollar from the game as these nations begin to replace trade using other currencies, including the Yuan. I believe commodities, especially oil, have been reflecting this trend for quite some time.
Where Did All The Money Go? Here! (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/where-did-all-money-go-here)
7725
Aside from ETF's, I presume you are looking to actually invest in oil directly you need to go through a broker, which means buying on margin (and subject to margin calls of all sorts) on the purchasing of monthly contracts. So by not traded per se, it is because of the purchasing of contracts that give you the right to buy or sell crude oil. The liquidity of the oil market is substantial. The big buyers in the industry are the only ones who take physical delivery, I have not heard of anyone getting stuck with 1000 barrels dropped off at their residence!
Aside from ETF's, I presume you are looking to actually invest in oil directly you need to go through a broker, which means buying on margin (and subject to margin calls of all sorts) on the purchasing of monthly contracts. So by not traded per se, it is because of the purchasing of contracts that give you the right to buy or sell crude oil. The liquidity of the oil market is substantial. The big buyers in the industry are the only ones who take physical delivery, I have not heard of anyone getting stuck with 1000 barrels dropped off at their residence!
No. I'm not talking about me investing in oil.
I said that oil was a commodity and was told the following: "but it's NOT like wheat and sugar, or other grown/harvested commodities".
So, I'm axing, how is it not? ^^ I mean, other than it cannot be eaten.
Aside from ETF's, I presume you are looking to actually invest in oil directly you need to go through a broker, which means buying on margin (and subject to margin calls of all sorts) on the purchasing of monthly contracts. So by not traded per se, it is because of the purchasing of contracts that give you the right to buy or sell crude oil. The liquidity of the oil market is substantial. The big buyers in the industry are the only ones who take physical delivery, I have not heard of anyone getting stuck with 1000 barrels dropped off at their residence!
No. I'm not talking about me investing in oil.
I said that oil was a commodity and was told the following: "but it's NOT like wheat and sugar, or other grown/harvested commodities".
So, I'm axing, how is it not? ^^ I mean, other than it cannot be eaten.
Apart from the obvious, most people can buy the raw item (sugar, wheat) but not crude oil.
Aside from ETF's, I presume you are looking to actually invest in oil directly you need to go through a broker, which means buying on margin (and subject to margin calls of all sorts) on the purchasing of monthly contracts. So by not traded per se, it is because of the purchasing of contracts that give you the right to buy or sell crude oil. The liquidity of the oil market is substantial. The big buyers in the industry are the only ones who take physical delivery, I have not heard of anyone getting stuck with 1000 barrels dropped off at their residence!
No. I'm not talking about me investing in oil.
I said that oil was a commodity and was told the following: "but it's NOT like wheat and sugar, or other grown/harvested commodities".
So, I'm axing, how is it not? ^^ I mean, other than it cannot be eaten.
Apart from the obvious, most people can buy the raw item (sugar, wheat) but not crude oil.
Why not? What stops you?
Aside from ETF's, I presume you are looking to actually invest in oil directly you need to go through a broker, which means buying on margin (and subject to margin calls of all sorts) on the purchasing of monthly contracts. So by not traded per se, it is because of the purchasing of contracts that give you the right to buy or sell crude oil. The liquidity of the oil market is substantial. The big buyers in the industry are the only ones who take physical delivery, I have not heard of anyone getting stuck with 1000 barrels dropped off at their residence!
No. I'm not talking about me investing in oil.
I said that oil was a commodity and was told the following: "but it's NOT like wheat and sugar, or other grown/harvested commodities".
So, I'm axing, how is it not? ^^ I mean, other than it cannot be eaten.
Apart from the obvious, most people can buy the raw item (sugar, wheat) but not crude oil.
Why not? What stops you?
A sh*tload of money!!!
http://crude-oil-sellers.com/buy-and-sell-crude-oil-most-profitable-way-to-do-it/ (http://crude-oil-sellers.com/buy-and-sell-crude-oil-most-profitable-way-to-do-it/)
And this doesn't even begin to touch our regulatory environment!!!
Aside from ETF's, I presume you are looking to actually invest in oil directly you need to go through a broker, which means buying on margin (and subject to margin calls of all sorts) on the purchasing of monthly contracts. So by not traded per se, it is because of the purchasing of contracts that give you the right to buy or sell crude oil. The liquidity of the oil market is substantial. The big buyers in the industry are the only ones who take physical delivery, I have not heard of anyone getting stuck with 1000 barrels dropped off at their residence!
No. I'm not talking about me investing in oil.
I said that oil was a commodity and was told the following: "but it's NOT like wheat and sugar, or other grown/harvested commodities".
So, I'm axing, how is it not? ^^ I mean, other than it cannot be eaten.
Apart from the obvious, most people can buy the raw item (sugar, wheat) but not crude oil.
Why not? What stops you?
A sh*tload of money!!!
http://crude-oil-sellers.com/buy-and-sell-crude-oil-most-profitable-way-to-do-it/ (http://crude-oil-sellers.com/buy-and-sell-crude-oil-most-profitable-way-to-do-it/)
And this doesn't even begin to touch our regulatory environment!!!
Aside from the money.
As I understand it, crude pumped anywhere simply adds to the world's available supply -- a figurative pool of oil -- subject to the usual laws of supply and demand as regards cost. Speculators buy "futures" based on what they *think* the price will be in the future. As I further understand it, oranges, wheat, sugar are all other commodities bought and sold the same way. Bad world crop, less orange juice, higher price -- supply and demand and speculators, just the same as oil or wheat.
Do I understand correctly? In words meant for a three-year old, please, if I haven't.
Thank you very much.
Now, about this:
"With the oil industry you have to be careful with terms like available supply ...".
Okay, why?
Repeat this tired old adage that somehow sticking to oil is in any way a good idea as much as you like. It still won't even begin to make it right for all kinds of reasons. We'll bear with it until a proven technology comes out, but saying that its a viable long term alternative is simple stupidity. We don't have enough of it to supply ourselves, we don't have the refineries to do something with it, we are paying money to potential terrorist supporters to get it, we can't control the price of it, it has numerous environmental consequences both in getting it, transporting it and using it, its carcinogenic in numerous forms and its a finite resource to begin with.
If you want to call the sky green, call the sky green. The rest of us will smile and nod until you shut up about it.
As long as this illusion prevails, the Anglo/US/Euro political and financial elite (for their personal accounts), Chinese and Russian central banks, Arab royals, Asian billionaires, Indian farmers, tin pot “stackers” and others stay focused on “squirreling away” physical metal. An almost unknown, except to a few, “sage” of the gold market once forecast (I’m paraphrasing but it is close enough) that:
“Physical gold will need only to be ‘priced’ once during this lifetime and that will be more than enough.”
Beneath the surface and behind the scenes, this process is playing out irrespective of the current “hybrid price” on traders’ screens. The latter is just being used to make the financial system look better than it really is. You know what they say about working out who the sucker is in a game of poker?
Today, the Middle East is in the news daily — we hear of strife in Syria, in Iran, in Israel and Palestine. Ten or 20 years from now, conflicts in the Middle East will count for less in the world’s scheme of things, just as the daily conflicts that now occur in Africa get short shrift, despite Africa’s far greater loss of life. Twenty years from now, the Middle East could be about as important as it was at the turn of the previous century — before its oil was discovered — which was not very important at all.
The Middle East will attract scant attention in future, not because the region will have run out of oil — it will have found much more — but because the rest of the world will also be awash in oil. As supplies increase, oil depreciates in price, as does the political value of its purveyors.
Although shale oil technology is still in its infancy, much of the U.S. shale oil can be developed inexpensively, at a cost comparable to the US$50 to US$60 per barrel cost of tar sands, which has itself been dropping. The trend down in shale oil costs is likely to continue over the coming years. Israel, which has some 250-billion barrels in one basin near Jerusalem alone, an amount comparable to Saudi Arabia’s reserves, expects to develop its oil at a cost of US$35 to US$40 per barrel. Should the world price of oil drop to this level — which happens to be the average price over the last two decades — the halving in oil prices will have mirrored that of natural gas. In the process, today’s Middle East energy exporters will have been bankrupted and their autocrats ousted.
Saudi Arabia, for example, now depends on petroleum for 80% of its budget, 45% of its GDP and 90% of its export earnings. A dramatic decrease in oil revenues would render the next generation of Saudi rulers incapable of maintaining the lavish payments needed to appease the Saudi clerics, let alone the social welfare payments that have kept the Saudi populace at bay, such as the US$130-billion in instant benefits conferred upon Saudi citizens last year to tamp down dissent during the Arab Spring. This artificial country, carved out of the Ottoman Empire after World War I by the British and given to the Saudi clan, would then likely break up, to once again be ruled along tribal lines. But few in the West would then take much notice.
"What could Obama learn from Brazil President Dilma Rousseff?" The optimistic answer is: hopefully not much.
Yeah, if gold dips below $1300 and silver below $25 you can bet your bottom dollar I am going to load up on more physical!
Yeah, if gold dips below $1300 and silver below $25 you can bet your bottom dollar I am going to load up on more physical!
Those dumbasses on Dylan Ratassigan's program were talking about gold yesterday . The comparison was gold as a commodity just like "pork bellies" . How stupid can these people be ? You can't hold on to pork bellies for twenty years !
"If we have a recession or slowing global growth then all assets fall -- it's a deflationary period," Jacobs says. "Even though a lot of people are expecting inflation, if we enter recession that means the price of assets falls. Gold will fall together with the rest of commodities."
Typically, when PM prices rise, it becomes more advantageous to expand mining operations and exploration. That appears to be going on, and I think there is some modest new deposits being brought to market, and there may be some release of mining company reserves when prices rise, so some demand could be easily satisfied without bumping prices, but prices should be rising more than they are IMO.
Physical precious metals (but especially gold) are the only liquid assets with negligible counter-party risk.
There will be a correction, whether it will require wheelbarrows and shovels
I don't know.
"CME Group Inc.’s Comex halted trading in gold futures for about 10 seconds yesterday at 8:31 a.m. after prices declined,"
Uhh, something else happen shortly after 10am this morning?
http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=GC&p=m5 (http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=GC&p=m5)
::cussing::
Quote
"CME Group Inc.’s Comex halted trading in gold futures for about 10 seconds yesterday at 8:31 a.m. after prices declined,"
Further discourse would have beenilluminatingincriminating.Uhh, something else happen shortly after 10am this morning?
http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=GC&p=m5 (http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=GC&p=m5)
::cussing::
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/bis-fxgold-intervention-profiles-and-after (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/bis-fxgold-intervention-profiles-and-after)
An invitation to non members:
As of today this topic has been viewed 8775 times
assuming half of those views are bots then this topic has been
viewed close to 4387 times. Assuming one-third of those views
were by members about 2924 views were by non members.
You 2924 are an eclectic group. Why don't you come on
and join up and share your opinions and observations.
You will be welcomed, come on in.
I'd be happy if one of you three gurus, Libertas/Charles/Weisshaupt, would explain tousme, not understanding much of the lingo, just what the hell is going on.
::curtsy4::
Same things as always. Lying. Cheating. and Stealing.
You've been saying for some time now, as has Ann Barnhardt, that no "body" is really in "the market" any longer; it's a few (?) computers simulating a whole lot of activity. Whose computers?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTRO#Long_Term_Refinancing_Operation_.28LTRO.29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTRO#Long_Term_Refinancing_Operation_.28LTRO.29)
ECB
The primary objective of the European Central Bank is to maintain price stability within the Eurozone, which is the same as keeping inflation low.
...
Long term refinancing operation
Though the ECB's main refinancing operations (MRO) are from repo auctions with a (bi)weekly maturity and monthly maturation, the ECB now conducts Long Term Refinancing Operations (LTROs), maturing after three months, six months, 12 months and 36 months.
***
LTRO 2 happened in March, WTF happened today?
8913
Central bankers can’t just abolish history. On
the other hand, history may very well abolish
the central bankers and their fiat currencies.
China's stagnating planned economy and EU worries (Greece et all) pushing oil lower...maybe fuel costs won't be so bad this summer?
http://news.yahoo.com/oil-down-near-94-china-europe-concerns-120845026--finance.html (http://news.yahoo.com/oil-down-near-94-china-europe-concerns-120845026--finance.html)
Quote
Central bankers can’t just abolish history. On
the other hand, history may very well abolish
the central bankers and their fiat currencies.
China's stagnating planned economy and EU worries (Greece et all) pushing oil lower...maybe fuel costs won't be so bad this summer?
http://news.yahoo.com/oil-down-near-94-china-europe-concerns-120845026--finance.html (http://news.yahoo.com/oil-down-near-94-china-europe-concerns-120845026--finance.html)
Also helps the dollar has gained some strength...Not that it should, but with the euro to compete.....
Yeah, it always kills me when people say this or that is strong, when in reality it is more often the case now days that something else turned into a bigger turd making this other turd just a little less stinky.
JEFFREY BROWN: So you think he's got a record on jobs and the economy that he can proudly run on?
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: Absolutely. And again, if you look at -- look at how we're doing relative to any other major country in the world today. Look at how we managed our crisis relative to what, not just how the U.S. managed in the past or how Japan did, but look at Europe today, and if you look at any measure that we can point to of economic strength, they provide overwhelming support for the choices he made early on. And remember, those were tough - very tough choices, put out the financial fires, get growth started. He did it with almost no help from his opponents, deep political costs, and those things made us -- make us stronger today.
Yeah, it always kills me when people say this or that is strong, when in reality it is more often the case now days that something else turned into a bigger turd making this other turd just a little less stinky.
Hey Guess what Timmy said (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/geithner-comes-clean-i-dont-understand-it)QuoteJEFFREY BROWN: So you think he's got a record on jobs and the economy that he can proudly run on?
TIMOTHY GEITHNER: Absolutely. And again, if you look at -- look at how we're doing relative to any other major country in the world today. Look at how we managed our crisis relative to what, not just how the U.S. managed in the past or how Japan did, but look at Europe today, and if you look at any measure that we can point to of economic strength, they provide overwhelming support for the choices he made early on. And remember, those were tough - very tough choices, put out the financial fires, get growth started. He did it with almost no help from his opponents, deep political costs, and those things made us -- make us stronger today.
You see, our sh*t stinks less. We are strong.
When your liberty is under assault one obvious casualty is your pocketbook, beating up people for wanting to keep the looters at bay is some form of perverted patriotism, isn't it?!
To listen to Schumer pontificate about his method of choice for preventing this sort of thing, one knows he thinks the money belongs first to the government; he's actually as pissed as if it's his pocket being picked.
When your liberty is under assault one obvious casualty is your pocketbook, beating up people for wanting to keep the looters at bay is some form of perverted patriotism, isn't it?!
To listen to Schumer pontificate about his method of choice for preventing this sort of thing, one knows he thinks the money belongs first to the government; he's actually as pissed as if it's his pocket being picked.
Poor retail sales numbers, more anticipation for QE3...and PM's pop up.
http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=METALS&p=m5 (http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=METALS&p=m5)
Poor retail sales numbers, more anticipation for QE3...and PM's pop up.
http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=METALS&p=m5 (http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=METALS&p=m5)
QE3....LOL.
Obama lambasts the "rich", while unloading free money on the market. I'm sure the poor and middle class will flourish.
Poor retail sales numbers, more anticipation for QE3...and PM's pop up.
http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=METALS&p=m5 (http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=METALS&p=m5)
QE3....LOL.
Obama lambasts the "rich", while unloading free money on the market. I'm sure the poor and middle class will flourish.
Yeah, his crony capitalists will prosper while everybody else gets the shaft!
I like the 1oz rounds, 20 fit in them plastic holder doohickies nice, but the premiums are higher, and if you pay by credit card they suck another $.89/oz out of you.
ETA - Silver did come down though, might have to think about another order regardless of premium.
Yeah, don't worry about the premiums too much at these prices, and it is so weird, I too have had a lot of boating accidents...there's a lot of treasure at the bottom of our nations waterways!I like the 1oz rounds, 20 fit in them plastic holder doohickies nice, but the premiums are higher, and if you pay by credit card they suck another $.89/oz out of you.
ETA - Silver did come down though, might have to think about another order regardless of premium.
Yeah, I have been thinking about it too. I have just never paid a premium that high. My junk silver ( which was lost in a boating accident) I paid $0.13 /oz for. -- And we would buy the non-mint silver rounds ( also lost in that boating accident) for a premium of $0.99 and that was after the price had climbed into the high 20s. - now they are $1.50/oz on par with the Junk silver. (and the Apmex Buy price is $0.10 more than the current ask. -- Physical is decoupling from the paper. The parity of Junk Silver with the silver rounds is also interesting: the junk silver primary purpose is an emergency spending supply. They are easily recognized, produced by the U.S. mint, and people will know what they are quickly.
If I remember correctly this is about the time
my great grandfather gave his favorite daughter
a charm bracelet strung with drilled $10.00 gold
pieces.
I bet even dirt is going up...
::facepalm::
Oh, brother, talk is all over the place.I bet even dirt is going up...
::facepalm::
Ha, just saw that. Yeah, about 300% over the last 10yrs in some places.
Pretty good return.
***
Spot gold was last quoted up $8.20 an ounce at $1,647.25. (http://www.kitco.com/reports/KitcoNews20120822JW_pm.html)
Most market watchers are now looking ahead to next week’s annual Jackson Hole Federal Reserve confab, which will feature remarks from Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke. It’s either at that time or at the mid-September FOMC meeting that many hope the Fed announces a new monetary stimulus plan—nicknamed QE3.
I've seen this movie before and the play stands;
there will be a brief recession, there will be inflation
(note to self: buy CD's at 14) and gold will go to the
'80-'81 equivalent high, about 2200, before it drops.
If Obama wins all bets are off.
Edit to add this tidbit:
LUBBOCK (CBSDFW.COM (http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/08/22/texas-judge-preparing-for-civil-war-if-obama-re-elected/)) - A Texas leader is warning of what he calls a ‘civil war’ and possible invasion of United Nations troops if President Barack Obama is re-elected.
Lubbock County Judge Tom Head is convinced that Mr. Obama winning a second term would lead to a revolt by the American people ... He says the money is needed to “beef up” it’s resources in case President Obama wins the November election.
In the event of civil unrest Judge Head said he’s concerned the President would hand over sovereignty of the United States to the U.N. and that the American public would react violently.
...
"Thank you for the copy of Better Off Without 'Em, but I'm afraid it's New York and San Francisco that I think should secede."Don't forget Illinois.
- P.J. O'Rourke
The renminbi is having its own problems and other nations
won't be storming the cashier to exchange their currency.
Turkey, Iran, and Russia? have been trading oil for gold.
Romney also promised to keep the "best parts" of Obamacare - including coverage for pre-existing conditions. Romney is a politician- that means he is a lying psychopath.
If the majority of folks understood that it would be
a rallying call. Oh, wait, Romney said he was going
to address the exchange rate fixing with China.
I digress, but they say Romney has not put up a plan, BS.
He's said, increase military to win two front war, confront
China, end regulation so we can drill-drill-drill, and kill
ObamaCare. What the hell are these idiots talking about?
Romney also promised to keep the "best parts" of Obamacare - including coverage for pre-existing conditions. Romney is a politician- that means he is a lying psychopath.
If the majority of folks understood that it would be
a rallying call. Oh, wait, Romney said he was going
to address the exchange rate fixing with China.
I digress, but they say Romney has not put up a plan, BS.
He's said, increase military to win two front war, confront
China, end regulation so we can drill-drill-drill, and kill
ObamaCare. What the hell are these idiots talking about?
From Reuters: Chinese banks and companies looking to seize steel pledged as collateral by firms that have defaulted on loans are making an uncomfortable discovery: the metal was never in the warehouses in the first place.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/how-chinas-rehypothecated-ghost-steel-just-vaporized-and-what-means-world-economy (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/how-chinas-rehypothecated-ghost-steel-just-vaporized-and-what-means-world-economy)QuoteFrom Reuters: Chinese banks and companies looking to seize steel pledged as collateral by firms that have defaulted on loans are making an uncomfortable discovery: the metal was never in the warehouses in the first place.
This means that in an economy in which the creation of liabilities, and pledging of assets took place at a furious pace in the past 5 years, nobody really knows just what the real state of credit creation truly was. What is 100% certain is that as a result of this revelation, the GDP number of the country, which is and always has been a derivative of credit formation and expansion (and heaven forbid contraction), is massively overrepresenting what it is in reality, and that the Chinese economy has been expanding at a far slower pace if defined not only by the creation of liabilities, but by matched assets. Most importantly, it means that every single Renminbi in circulation is impaired as a country-wide liquidation event would see huge losses by every creditor class. It also would mean, naturally, zero residual value left for the equity.
And just like that the Chinese growth "miracle" goes poof... as does its steel first, and soon all other commodities (coughcoppercough) that served as the basis of "secured" liability creation.
This makes me feel warm all over:Tungsten-Filled 10 Oz Gold Bar Found In The Middle Of Manhattan's Jewelry District (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/tungsten-filled-10-oz-gold-bar-found-middle-manhattans-jewelry-district)
This makes me feel warm all over:Tungsten-Filled 10 Oz Gold Bar Found In The Middle Of Manhattan's Jewelry District (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/tungsten-filled-10-oz-gold-bar-found-middle-manhattans-jewelry-district)
Yeah, these stories crop up from time to time, it is only the poor economic times we are in (and times when PMs are rising) that they get more attention. I am having a hard time believing this scam was not perpetrated at the source, but the full chain of custody has to be thoroughly investigated to know for sure.
Anyway, not like this is any different than what the Fed/Treas is doing with currency, same scam, just easier to do with paper than metal.
This makes me feel warm all over:Tungsten-Filled 10 Oz Gold Bar Found In The Middle Of Manhattan's Jewelry District (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/tungsten-filled-10-oz-gold-bar-found-middle-manhattans-jewelry-district)
Yeah, these stories crop up from time to time, it is only the poor economic times we are in (and times when PMs are rising) that they get more attention. I am having a hard time believing this scam was not perpetrated at the source, but the full chain of custody has to be thoroughly investigated to know for sure.
Anyway, not like this is any different than what the Fed/Treas is doing with currency, same scam, just easier to do with paper than metal.
I am with CO. Warm and Fuzzy. This was a reputable dealer. Hollow out a bar and fill it, and then reseal it? I doubt it. A very professional organization did it? Hell yeah- I would suspect that Pamp Suisse manufactured these. Perhaps even at Government request. Now I wonder if I should drill into my 1oz bars. I guess they are too small to be worth faking? Of course at $1700/oz, isn't that worth it?
So not only is gold bullion "rehypothecated" many, many times over in ETFs and COMEX contracts, but the stuff that is being rehypothecated is actually $1.50 per ounce Tungsten. Right here in the good 'ol US of A.
In case you are curious, the work-around on this is simple. Don't buy bullion. Buy coins. Old coins. Minted back when men weren't all moral degenerates and governments could actually be trusted. Bullion is a pain in the keister anyway. Coins are practical, and far, far more difficult to debase than bullion.
Or just buy farmground.
"Or just by farmground"
Yeah, the vid in this http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,913.msg77362.html#msg77362 post addressed that. I stepped on it with that tungsten post.
I'm not sure that buying old coins, that usually come with a
numismatic value, is a better buy than currently minted.
It appears that the mint is cranking out new Eagles as fast as it can.
No more Pandas or Mapleleaf's though.
As long as you can get them near bullion value, from a reputable source, and slabbed by a major authenticator (PCGS, NGC, ANACS)
And never from a Chinese seller on Ebay!
But seriously, if this is a coordinated effort by one or more producers to cornhole customers, I find it difficult to beleive they've bothered to corrupt 1oz & lower bullion or coins? They'd be shut down, jailed and never seen again.
But seriously, if this is a coordinated effort by one or more producers to cornhole customers, I find it difficult to believe they've bothered to corrupt 1oz & lower bullion or coins? They'd be shut down, jailed and never seen again.
Not if the purpose was to shunt that gold to a central govt - the govt already allows short sale of gold and silver with no consequence. Why should they not allow those sellers to back up their contracts with counterfeit bars? That way they get the added benefit of adding Fear, Uncertainty and doubt to the market ( lowering prices) while allowing their stooges to keep prices low with shorts while fulfilling the contract that actually take delivery. IN the meantime any real gold is provided to the host govt, probably at a premium over spot- a premium of course paid with tax payer money and borrowed fiat.
All complete conjecture, and I have no evidence. Merely pointing out that if a conspiracy does exist, it mostly likely includes the central banks. When a single Oounce of gold commands $1700-1800, yes, it is absolutely worth making coins with $2 of tungsten in them.
I guess I was looking at it from a purely retail and traditional business point of view. If in fact the scenario is as you outline then the everybody has been cornholed and every government and every institution on the planet is in dire need of violent overthrow. Two points argue against and grand conspiracy - 1) That many people cannot keep a secret that long (usually somebody blurts a drunken confession to a hooker, somebody has a severe attack of conscious, anonymous leak, etc) and perhaps more importantly 2) it is self-defeating to inject too much concern into holders...if everybody inspects their stuff and the debasement is that widespread...good luck trying to contain all the riots, the markets will implode, panics, runs...BITS! (Not that I have a problem with that reaction...)
Wait...
I thought gold wasn't money...only fiat currency is money...?
These Neo-Keynesian's really need to come with a warning label, eh?
Hmmm...not giving me warm fuzzy feelings over what may come next...
I sense the time may be nigh to divest and run!
"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
_ William Arthur Ward
I can't figure out the wind in order to correctly adjust my sails and I'm not an optimist therefor I must be a pessimist. But that doesn't stop me from reassessing the winds and readjusting the lines.
To "The Precious Metal Purchasing Act" (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-10/executive-order-6102-precious-metal-purchasing-act-santellis-take) From Executive Order 6102 - Santelli's Take
So, Dr. Bund says we have seven more good years.
So, Dr. Bund says we have seven more good years.
Or Dr. Bund has decided to write off the loss. If they are using that gold to suppress gold prices, and thereby sustain the dollar, they may simply not have access to it, and have to buy it from the market .. and China is also buying from the market - and taking possession. Its entirely possible the paper gold isn't backed by anything anymore and the physical market is getting very tight.
Heh, these are kinda sexy, know what I mean?
http://silverbulletbullion.com/ (http://silverbulletbullion.com/)
;D
Heh, these are kinda sexy, know what I mean?
http://silverbulletbullion.com/ (http://silverbulletbullion.com/)
;D
Those rock, I want!
Heh, these are kinda sexy, know what I mean?
http://silverbulletbullion.com/ (http://silverbulletbullion.com/)
;D
Those rock, I want!
Fun collector items for the whole family and could make great barter items!
You're going to be in high cotton, brother.
More evidence of price fixing and analysis.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-20/strange-case-golds-regular-morning-mugging (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-20/strange-case-golds-regular-morning-mugging)
Man, PMs are a good buy right now, especially silver.
On the exploitation front, business as usual...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-10/goldman-buying-gold-selling-treasurys-muppets-whom-it-advises-do-opposite (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-10/goldman-buying-gold-selling-treasurys-muppets-whom-it-advises-do-opposite)
Hmmm... ::thinking::
Paper or PMs? Decisions, decisions!
::saywhat::
One of the few who should panic is Cyprus, at these prices 75% of their gold will not suffice, the ECB will need it all now.
I love the smell of panic in the morning!
Gold bullion prices have been subjected to a cleverly orchestrated bear raid in our opinion. Selling of paper Comex contracts on Friday, April 12th, and Monday, April 15th, totaled 1 million contracts, exceeding global annual gold production by 12%. The attack succeeded when the technical support in the low $1500’s/oz. easily gave way and led to waves of forced selling. The volume is without precedent and has all the characteristics of a panic liquidation driven by naked short selling....
Thanks for all the info, keep it coming. I'm thinking for me it is more prepping than investing.
The engineer in me has another question. At the APMEX link earlier they advertise rounds of 1 oz. .999 Fine Silver, the description says 39mm diameter X 3.2mm thick. So I created a CAD model of this round applied silver as the material and that size and material weighs 1.289 Troy ounces (1.414 standard oz.). Seems like something is amiss. Anyone?
Thanks for all the info, keep it coming. I'm thinking for me it is more prepping than investing.
The engineer in me has another question. At the APMEX link earlier they advertise rounds of 1 oz. .999 Fine Silver, the description says 39mm diameter X 3.2mm thick. So I created a CAD model of this round applied silver as the material and that size and material weighs 1.289 Troy ounces (1.414 standard oz.). Seems like something is amiss. Anyone?
It should be by mass, and while CO is right, many Coins are coin silver - something stamped .999 pure should be exactly that by mass. - and weigh pretty close to 10.49 gm/ cubic centimeter. . So My only guess is that the dimensions given aren't really that accurate The design may add/remove some volume as well making such measurements general and not specific.. . It should weigh one troy oz when you receive it because that what was struck in the first place if the mint was any good.
Hey, hey, hey, today is not a bad day if anyone is interested.
I'm shootin' fer Tuesday.
Ag
Real-time: 14:14:10 ET Change: -0.93(-4.72%)
Bid: 18.79 High: 19.51
Ask: 18.89 Low: 18.63
I'm taking advantage of all the free money pumped into the market. I've made a few bucks this last few months. I bank with Regions and bought their stock when it was 4 bucks. Around 10 today. Did the same with Bank of America. When the rich dude ( his name escapes me) bought a bunch, I figured it isn't going down. Reminds me I need to go set my stop loss.
I look at todays ratio in per ounce prices and gold is trading at about 66-67 times silver. Historically since the 70's is about 60. Some think gold realistically should be closer to about $2500/ounce...using the 60:1 ratio then silver should be about $41.67/ounce.
I look at todays ratio in per ounce prices and gold is trading at about 66-67 times silver. Historically since the 70's is about 60. Some think gold realistically should be closer to about $2500/ounce...using the 60:1 ratio then silver should be about $41.67/ounce.
While this may be redundant, I feel compelled to reiterate:
This is NOT a "money making" opportunity. Just as the historical ratio between gold and silver is there because of their long term value, they will retain largely the same value in the new world - I would expect to buy the same amount of oil for them for instance that historical ratio predicts. - unless they actually start to be used as Money ( people routinely take gold and silver in exchange because they believe others will accept it just as freely in the future) Otherwise, expect you Gold and silver to buy what they would have bought in a "healthy economy"- back when prices were much lower ( both the price of the bullion and the price of everything else) If they are used as money demand for them will go up and that will create more "value" for the metals, not because the shiny rocks are more valuable, but because they now have money value.
Agreed. Not in PMs for the money making, in PMs for the real value it will always command.
Agreed. Not in PMs for the money making, in PMs for the real value it will always command.
Yeah, I figured you got it.. It was more for anyone who might come along and not understand your reasoning, because gold bugs usually pitch that same stats and then claim "Golds going to $2000, $5000 or beyond" - and most likely it is. But unless you are paying off dollar denominated debt, that isn't going to be of any help, as hamburger, bread, milk and gas are headed to $100, $500 and beyond as well. Its really terrifying how many gold bugs don't pick up on that.
There will be a whipsaw effect in the early going for valuables like food, fuel and medicine...and unfortunately until the die-back phase runs its course there won't be much equilibrium or stability in Barterland.
There will be a whipsaw effect in the early going for valuables like food, fuel and medicine...and unfortunately until the die-back phase runs its course there won't be much equilibrium or stability in Barterland.
And your gold and silver may not be worth much in "barterland", where Ammo, food and Toiletries command much higher values than shiny rocks. Though I bet there will be a lot of people willing to take shiny rocks for such supplies as they prepare for phase II after the die back, when they are likely to become money.
Is it bad the term "die-back" brings a smile to my face? I have such a callous disregard for the locusts, but then, I learned it from them didn't I?
More Dollars coming home to roost. (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-15/ticsaster-foreigners-sell-more-us-securities-after-lehman-bankruptcy) - Bonds are rising (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-15/10y-yield-jumps-new-2-year-high) and of course the Fed has to roll over 40% of the debt in the next two years. Gold market is getting tighter too (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-14/physical-gold-supply-tightness), but the premiums have been pretty consistent over the last few months .. and I don't see a lot of stuff out of stock at AMPEX ..
Things are moving. There is no way the Fed can taper.. even giving a date the taper will start might crash the markets at this point. I bet anything the Fed announces that they won't.. and then happy days are here again.. till it all goes, and I am afraid that date is getting much much closer.
I have learned not to underestimate TPTB in their ability to extend and pretend this charade. As one commenter from the first article suggests, "Get to the Choppa!!" to most Americans means sit and watch the commercial for the next TV recording device called "The Choppa!" - so financial panic overseas may not translate (immediately) into panic here. All the same, some of the purchases I have been delaying will probably get executed here in the near term .
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-27/scrambling-gold-mints-around-world-plead-we-can%E2%80%99t-meet-demand (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-27/scrambling-gold-mints-around-world-plead-we-can%E2%80%99t-meet-demand)
This is one crazy assed world we live in!
Neo-Keynesian masters of the universe use every crooked means to beat PMs down, make it attractive for people to load up at cheap prices, all to prop up the illusion that stocks and bonds and the dollar are such swell investments...and then minters go apenuts trying to keep up with demand so that demand doesn't cause peices to shoot up...
I can't wait to see what happens when there is nothing left to buy!
Silver manipulation visually captured again.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-01/even-cme-getting-tired-silver-manipulation (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-01/even-cme-getting-tired-silver-manipulation)
All you can do is say "OK, I'll buy some more physical" and go do it.
When they run out of inventory, guess what?
Yeah, that'll be an unforgettable day.
Silver manipulation visually captured again.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-01/even-cme-getting-tired-silver-manipulation (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-01/even-cme-getting-tired-silver-manipulation)
All you can do is say "OK, I'll buy some more physical" and go do it.
When they run out of inventory, guess what?
Yeah, that'll be an unforgettable day.
Premiums on Junk Silver are over $2 again..
I think you mean as in the dollar, 90% silver, .77357 ounces of silver, not a percent.
I think you mean as in the dollar, 90% silver, .77357 ounces of silver, not a percent.
I think you mean as in the dollar, 90% silver, .77357 ounces of silver, not a percent.
Ah, thats it. I was looking and couldn't figure out how they were getting those numbers.
The other thing to be aware of is that the dimes have a larger surface area and are expected to have lost more silver in circulation than the quarter, half dollar etc.
So a $500 bag if dimes is likely to have less overall silver in it than a $5000 of half dollars.
However, if Junk silver is forced into circulation again, I doubt most people will be weighing a dime and determining its silver content unless it is very, very worn ( as in, the stamping is almost gone) - a 90% silver dime will be worth a 90% silver dime as long as others can reasonably expect is will be accepted as such at a later date. If on the other hand you take it into the the smelter, yeah you bet he is going to weight it.
Hilarious, Effen Yellen says no change in rates and gold and silver go shooting up and the dollar takes it hard in the Obama! ::hysterical::
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-19/silver-surges-3-month-highs-china-ponzi-unwinds (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-19/silver-surges-3-month-highs-china-ponzi-unwinds)
These two comments from the article nail it!
lordylord
"When I have to pay a $5 / OZ premium for physical then I will know the game has changed."
When people aren't taking dollars for silver, then the game has changed.
Dr. Engali
That's my point. If you don't own some before a disaster, it will be too late to get your hands on any after it happens. Because if and when disaster strikes, it will be fast and furious.
Same goes for silver and lead. Gold might be barterable for big ticket stuff, but it will be silver that allows you to trade for necessities, and lead that will allow the transaction to be conducted fairly.
;)
Hilarious, Effen Yellen says no change in rates and gold and silver go shooting up and the dollar takes it hard in the Obama! ::hysterical::
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-19/silver-surges-3-month-highs-china-ponzi-unwinds (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-19/silver-surges-3-month-highs-china-ponzi-unwinds)
These two comments from the article nail it!
lordylord
"When I have to pay a $5 / OZ premium for physical then I will know the game has changed."
When people aren't taking dollars for silver, then the game has changed.
Dr. Engali
That's my point. If you don't own some before a disaster, it will be too late to get your hands on any after it happens. Because if and when disaster strikes, it will be fast and furious.
Same goes for silver and lead. Gold might be barterable for big ticket stuff, but it will be silver that allows you to trade for necessities, and lead that will allow the transaction to be conducted fairly.
;)
Iv'e always liked that Dr. Engali
Sooooo do you think that it is a tiny bit problematic for entities that PRINT MONEY to trade equity, currency and commodity markets?
Do you think it is problematic that an entity that can print theoretically infinite amounts of money IN ORDER TO MEET ITS MARGIN CALLS can trade massively leveraged markets?
Do you think it is problematic that entities that can stand theoretically infinite losses, who can print their way out of ANY position with effectively zero need to ever close out a position, and thus utterly destroy any connection whatsoever of the markets to REALITY, do you think that might just present a tiny bit of a market integrity issue? Just a smidge??
I want someone to explain to me how honest cash-derivative basis convergence can possibly, possibly happen if one side of the market has an infinite supply of funds, and thus for whom the entire notion of “losses” becomes a complete irrelevancy. Please. I’m all ears.
I want to know how arbitrage can occur in that environment.
And perhaps THE ENTIRE POINT:
I WANT TO KNOW HOW ANY DERIVATIVE MARKET CAN POSSIBLY REMAIN SUBJECT TO ITS UNDERLYING CASH PRODUCT/COMMODITY IF THERE IS NO WAY TO FORCE PRICE CONVERGENCE BECAUSE ONE SIDE HAS AN INFINITE SUPPLY OF MONEY.
I WANT TO KNOW HOW THE CASH MARKETS ARE NOT THEN PERVERSELY DRIVEN AND THEIR PRICES “SET” BY THEIR DERIVATIVE MARKETS, EVEN UNTO COMPLETE IRRATIONALITY AND UTTER DELINKAGE FROM REALITY, WHEN ENTITIES WHO CAN PRINT THEIR OWN MONEY ARE TRADING DERIVATIVES.
Food. Energy. Currencies. Precious metals. Interest rates. Equities (stocks).
Now we know why these flash crashes happen. Now we know how it is that super-massive orders and trades have wrought havoc on the markets – running stops and clearing everyone and everything on the other side out in quantities that surpassed the sizes of any possible private market participant. Central banks. You people are trying to trade against someone with an infinite supply of money.
You are not, therefore, "investing" - you are hedging.
I can hear Ann chuckling about this...Since ethics is something people had in centuries past, no new set of laws for the exchanges will ever correct what's the market lacks, humanity, justice and humbleness. These asswipes are only looking to earn, steal really, money as fast as they can to accumulate vast wealth of "things" before their neighbors can only make them envious. Hard work use to be rewarded once upon a time opposed to what we do now is reward criminals that destroy other people's wealth.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-08/these-kinds-market-rigging-practices-will-no-longer-be-allowed-cme (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-08/these-kinds-market-rigging-practices-will-no-longer-be-allowed-cme)
...as always, rigging has never been legal, but idiots think the next wave of laws, rules and regs will be "the fix" when all they are is PR window-dressing BS that at best makes the life of the average person more difficult!
The PTBs will still conspire and collude and make their mischief...maybe a few more lower-level lackies get sacrificed, no biggie, all for the greater good of the cabal...
::mooning::
ETA - Re: Cabal, see last link here! (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?topic=7154.msg134897#msg134897)
I can hear Ann chuckling about this...Since ethics is something people had in centuries past, no new set of laws for the exchanges will ever correct what's the market lacks, humanity, justice and humbleness. These asswipes are only looking to earn, steal really, money as fast as they can to accumulate vast wealth of "things" before their neighbors can only make them envious. Hard work use to be rewarded once upon a time opposed to what we do now is reward criminals that destroy other people's wealth.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-08/these-kinds-market-rigging-practices-will-no-longer-be-allowed-cme (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-08/these-kinds-market-rigging-practices-will-no-longer-be-allowed-cme)
...as always, rigging has never been legal, but idiots think the next wave of laws, rules and regs will be "the fix" when all they are is PR window-dressing BS that at best makes the life of the average person more difficult!
The PTBs will still conspire and collude and make their mischief...maybe a few more lower-level lackies get sacrificed, no biggie, all for the greater good of the cabal...
::mooning::
ETA - Re: Cabal, see last link here! (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?topic=7154.msg134897#msg134897)
Premiums on rounds are about 2% less than there were three weeks ago for rounds off 100 or more and 20 or more!
Premiums on rounds are about 2% less than there were three weeks ago for rounds off 100 or more and 20 or more!
Yeah, if you don't own shiny rocks this may be a good time to get more.. but they are going to suppress the crap out of these going forward..as the charts show - they aren't even trying to hide it anymore. Best execution, ha. .
the premiums on junk silver are the highest I have ever seen them.. $2.49/oz. ( and that is for the big bags..) It was under 20 Cents/oz before Obama...
Interesting read on how the PTBs manipuate paper gold to suppress the real thing...the best counter for which is to buy the real thing (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-13/paper-gold-and-its-effect-gold-price), something intelligent people know and a strategy that feeds into the hands of our enemies like China, and now Russia (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-13/putin-prepares-economic-war-buys-stunning-55-tonnes-gold-q3) is joining in on the fun.Problem is it's getting harder to find the stuff. The reason probably rests with the fact that the suppression is keeping the real stuff from hitting the market. Who wants to mine something when it costs more to mine than to sell, it's basic economics. There was no ounce singles at the market this weekend and that says plenty.
Interesting read on how the PTBs manipuate paper gold to suppress the real thing...the best counter for which is to buy the real thing (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-13/paper-gold-and-its-effect-gold-price), something intelligent people know and a strategy that feeds into the hands of our enemies like China, and now Russia (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-13/putin-prepares-economic-war-buys-stunning-55-tonnes-gold-q3) is joining in on the fun.Problem is it's getting harder to find the stuff. The reason probably rests with the fact that the suppression is keeping the real stuff from hitting the market. Who wants to mine something when it costs more to mine than to sell, it's basic economics. There was no ounce singles at the market this weekend and that says plenty.
The US mint has run out of domestic silver to produce Eagles and they must buy it within the confines of the USA. Besides, Eagles were still produced with the silver at $32/oz thus their high price compared to the spot price. Remember when prices of WTI crude went as low as $10/brl un the 90's? Those oil fields stop producing until price went back up to profitable levels. I'm sure the same thing is happening now with PM.
Even though fuel prices have lowered some, the cost of mining hasn't really changed all that much in terms of labor and machinery maintenance which is still higher because of the govt constantly f**king with the value of fiat currency. When will it all end?
Are Big Banks Using Derivatives To Suppress Bullion Prices?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-09/are-big-banks-using-derivatives-suppress-bullion-prices (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-09/are-big-banks-using-derivatives-suppress-bullion-prices)
Yes.
And derivatives pose an existential threat to just about everything. For the PTBs, everything is gamed for the greater good...the greater good being anything that both keeps the illusion going and lines their pockets with other peoples wealth...
And with prices beat down again,http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-08/silver-craters-exhaustion-capitulation-or-opportunity-ahead (http://[url=http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-08/silver-craters-exhaustion-capitulation-or-opportunity-ahead)]especially in silver[/url]...buy it if you can find it!
There are availability issues and the premiums are not slight at present. But I gotta go for it...
http://www.apmex.com/ (http://www.apmex.com/)
If this situation continues...something will have to give between actual on-hand inventory and manipulated prices...
::popcorn::
Another 19 tons of shiny for the PBOC...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-14/gold-jumps-after-china-reveals-it-bought-another-19-tons-july (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-14/gold-jumps-after-china-reveals-it-bought-another-19-tons-july)
...and they strengthened the Yuan slightly...
...meanwhile America wonders what will come next for Caitlyn...
::facepalm::
Another 19 tons of shiny for the PBOC...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-14/gold-jumps-after-china-reveals-it-bought-another-19-tons-july (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-14/gold-jumps-after-china-reveals-it-bought-another-19-tons-july)
...and they strengthened the Yuan slightly...
...meanwhile America wonders what will come next for Caitlyn...
::facepalm::
I wonder how much of that 19 tons was bought with US Dollars from the china reserves? Heck , they might have some deal where they are buying gold right out of of the Manhattan Vaults. "Take these worthless treasuries back and give us gold for them or we crash the whole thing right now! "