It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => Economy => Topic started by: Libertas on October 29, 2013, 07:02:40 AM
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I have to admit I have conflicting thoughts on the whole BITCOIN phenomena, but I have to say after this quote by O'Fukcface (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-28/obama-asks-if-he-should-be-worried-about-bitcoin-atms-arrive-5-canadian-cities) I think I just swung in favor of it!
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I've heard of it, but I don't get how it works.
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It's basically an alternative currency thriving in cyberspace...here is their webpage - http://bitcoin.org/en/ (http://bitcoin.org/en/)
You can install a wallet on your computer or mobile device and basically conduct transations via network.
This chart lays it out - http://bitcoin.org/en/how-it-works (http://bitcoin.org/en/how-it-works)
If more and more people and businesses start using them to conduct transactions it could conceivably replace fiat currencies one day.
Their FAQ page is good, check out the section "How does one acquire bitcoins?"...you basically tie your bank account like with PayPal.
http://bitcoin.org/en/faq#how-does-one-acquire-bitcoins (http://bitcoin.org/en/faq#how-does-one-acquire-bitcoins)
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It itself is a fiat currency, purchase with another fiat currency.
I don't even get the purpose, other than pure speculation and gambling.
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It itself is a fiat currency, purchase with another fiat currency.
I don't even get the purpose, other than pure speculation and gambling.
This is basically a "startup" operation, and bit-coins are basically shares in this venture, so speculation and gambling occurs, just as it does on FOREX and every other currency exchange in the world. You own dollars, and every day you hold them you are also engaging in such speculation and trading as the dollar index moves around.
The purpose is the same one as the dollar, the Euro, the Yuan etc... its to provide a symbol or token for a given amount of for which may be exchanged in the future for a largely similar amount of value. It is a form of money.
How does it differ from other fiat currency
1) Its distributed. Anyone, anywhere may run a Bit-Coin server, maintain accounts, and charge to assist with transactions. Likewise ANYONE, ANYWHERE in the world, can compete to "mine" more of the currency by solving a mathematical problem. Providing the algos are really secure ( and yes they have made this one hard to crack) the distributed nature basically prevents "cheating" - one entity cannot just start "making more" - unlike the Fed who can just print money . This is more like the gold standard where there is only so much gold above ground and only so much coming out of the ground in a given period. Its just the ,mining done is virtual.
2) Its secure. When they shut down Silk road, the fed's Siezed the bit coin assets. Only, you see, they didn't. (And I believe still haven't, but someone may correct me) In order to get to bitcoin assets you have to have the encrypted key. If you don't have it , you can't remove them, transfer them, or exchange them. Because of the decentralized nature of Bitcoin, there is no one to threaten or pressure into "handing over the keys" like they would do to your local bank. They may eventually find a way around that (NSA snooping, quantum computing etc) but it will still be a lot more work for them to get at your funds than if you keep them in a bank where Obamacare allows them legal access to your accounts. (Which s again in line with the theory that the Obama administration is TRYING to kill the dollar by making it in every American's best interest to removing their funds, buy a gun and defend it themselves. )
If Bitcoin were setup and run by individual the States, it could easily replace the Fed and probably work very, very well. The only thing really lacking is credibility and faith, the sort that a real, legitimate govt, could give it. One of the first, best decisions to turn over to Asimov's robots would be the fiat, because the machines can make currency decisions without bias and without manipulation.
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The future may be a government-less currency or better yet currencies. Most governments have little credibility anyway, so why would it need the "legitimacy" of one?
Most governments are not stable, and many are down right corrupt. The US, which largely put ours in the hands of a shadowy, corrupt, semi "private" organization (the Fed). Has somehow been the world currency for nearly a hundred years, not because the Fed made it the best, but because of the wealth, rule of law and huge size of our nation making it so in spite of the problems of the Fed. Now that the dollars legitimacy is waning due to Feds 100 years of monkeying, it stays for the time being because every other currency is EVEN worse. The Euro won't, the Yuan won't, both are currencies of societies with governments that are morally bankrupt (as well as financial).
The Euro has nations that have so much debt they will never repay, forcing wealthier nations to redraw at some point (Germany) , and the Yuan is manipulated even more then the dollar.
As long as no organization can hijack or "centralize" it, it would earn its legitimacy by being fair handed, simple and easy to access but yet secure.
Its Bitcoin it? Who knows? I know governments will go out of their way to try to "regulate" it.
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Depends how dark we go, if the collapse renders electricity and networks to uber luxury status only, bitcoin will literally be left in the dark. Surviving people will resort to barter economies, so educate yourself on valuable barter items. Once some form of normalcy returns and people begin to consolidate activity again, I would suspect a reversion to what has worked (if left unmolested and not debased) is precious metals as the monetary base, so having some PMs for the long-term makes sense, and there may be some barter opportunity to acquire other goods with silver and perhaps gold.
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Depends how dark we go, if the collapse renders electricity and networks to uber luxury status only, bitcoin will literally be left in the dark. Surviving people will resort to barter economies, so educate yourself on valuable barter items. Once some form of normalcy returns and people begin to consolidate activity again, I would suspect a reversion to what has worked (if left unmolested and not debased) is precious metals as the monetary base, so having some PMs for the long-term makes sense, and there may be some barter opportunity to acquire other goods with silver and perhaps gold.
Within a few years of bartering, people will revert back to trading with precious metals, silver, gold, platinum etc....It will be the only way to get paid for labor so that you can spend it elsewhere. Question is, after all the BS people are going through today will they ever allow a fiat currency or let any govt fukc with it. Certain laws need to be passed to stop this from ever happening again. Even a proposal should be met with incarceration after this debacle.
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Depends how dark we go, if the collapse renders electricity and networks to uber luxury status only, bitcoin will literally be left in the dark. Surviving people will resort to barter economies, so educate yourself on valuable barter items. Once some form of normalcy returns and people begin to consolidate activity again, I would suspect a reversion to what has worked (if left unmolested and not debased) is precious metals as the monetary base, so having some PMs for the long-term makes sense, and there may be some barter opportunity to acquire other goods with silver and perhaps gold.
Within a few years of bartering, people will revert back to trading with precious metals, silver, gold, platinum etc....It will be the only way to get paid for labor so that you can spend it elsewhere. Question is, after all the BS people are going through today will they ever allow a fiat currency or let any govt fukc with it. Certain laws need to be passed to stop this from ever happening again. Even a proposal should be met with incarceration after this debacle.
I think anybody trying to float fiat again or demand goods or services on credit will be hung/shot/knifed/immolated/dismembered/piked/beaten to death on the spot.
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I'm not interest in this new scam.
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I wouldn't say it is a scam, merely filling certain needs, carving out its own niche.
This post is good - http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-06/why-bitcoin-surging (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-06/why-bitcoin-surging)
The main point being, this should be thought of as a means of conducting transactions, it behaves like money but is not money, as long as you understand that and act accordingly it may suit a particular need.
I find it ironic that the Feds have a stake in bitcoin now thanks to their take-down of Silk Road 1.0...Silk road 2.0 is now up and running!
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-06/silk-road-20-has-been-born-new-website-mocks-feds (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-06/silk-road-20-has-been-born-new-website-mocks-feds)
Mocking the Fedcoats! Gotta love it! ;D
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http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-11/meet-fiatleakcom-%E2%80%93-real-time-map-bitcoin-transactions-country (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-11/meet-fiatleakcom-%E2%80%93-real-time-map-bitcoin-transactions-country)
Can't get it to work for me, must be my work filter...will try at home later...
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I trust it NOT!
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I trust it NOT!
Matress-stuffer! Got a matress-stuffer here! ;D
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I trust it NOT!
At this point, its probably more trust worthy than the dollars in your wallet.
As Greece had its bank bail-in a lot of people were using Bitcoin to get their money out of the country and avoiding capital controls to do it.
Bit coin will probably go up predictably during such events, and we are sure to see many more such events.
No, I don't own any bitcoin. But yes, having a smallish holding as a speculative position along with your hard stuff, probalby won't go amiss. The big risk is that the govts that be are going to be gunning for them...
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Only question I have: Can I cash my bitcoins for gold?
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Only question I have: Can I cash my bitcoins for gold?
Yes, you can (http://www.coinabul.com/) and if the dollar collapses you might still be able to.
the price of bitcoin in gold over time (http://z.com/145481/the-price-of-a-bitcoin-in-gold-over-time/)
Bitcoin is another currency. Thats all. You have faith in it or you don't. There are people investing in Chinese Yuan - not because they trust the chinese govt, but because that expect that vehicle to do better than the dollar over time. Bitcoin has proven itself as pretty much tamper proof and therefore is a favorite of criminals who do not wish their purchases tracked. Since the govt is making us all criminals, it may behoove us to keep some value in this form. Or you could loose it all tomorrow. The same is true of your bank account. A Bank Holiday and a Bail in and its gone.
And it's gone (original) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DT7bX-B1Mg#ws)
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Speaking of gone...that link for bitcoin gold says all products are gone! How much of that is demand-driven and how much is that supply constraint? I can only tell from the link that they have customer service offices in US, AUS & CAN, should be decent supply availability...has to be a lot of bitcoiner demand for gold!
And speaking of gold, Chi-Com's have another gold vault to fill in Shanghai!
http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?topic=913.msg113756#msg113756 (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?topic=913.msg113756#msg113756)
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Senate hearing on Bitcoin today...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-18/bitcoin-soars-above-600-rises-20-one-day-ahead-senate-hearing (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-18/bitcoin-soars-above-600-rises-20-one-day-ahead-senate-hearing)
And, umm...
"The Department of Justice and Securities and Exchange Commission are telling a U.S. Senate committee that Bitcoins are legitimate financial instruments, boosting prospects for wider acceptance of the virtual currency."
Something doesn't smell right...if the Fedcoats are saying this...I'm not liking what it implies...sounds almost like NSA already has it tapped and wants people to have a false sense of security...
Might explain why nobody has cashed in yet on these offers...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-18/dark-web-exposes-75000-bitcoin-based-bounty-bernankes-assassination (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-18/dark-web-exposes-75000-bitcoin-based-bounty-bernankes-assassination)
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Schiff confirmation of what's been said already...and that gold and other PMs will always be the safest store of value of last resort.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-21/peter-schiff-gold-vs-bitcoin (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-21/peter-schiff-gold-vs-bitcoin)
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Will a virtual currency cause a virtual depression? Will there be virtual theft of folk's funds?
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Will a virtual currency cause a virtual depression? Will there be virtual theft of folk's funds?
We already use a Virtual Currency. Dollars mostly exist as 1s and 0s Right now. When the Fed "prints" it really justs adds a couple of 0s to the end of its available balance and then transfers them electronically somewhere else. Go into a bank and try to take $1000 to $2000 out in cash, and get the dirty looks. Take out more than $5000 and they will probably try to stall you- because they haven't been able to physically print as much cashy money as they need to cover the size of the money supply.
And yes, virtual theft of assets happens every day.
Bitcoin doesn't have a cash form- and must be moved into a currency that does in order to "remove it"- but as more vendors accept bitcoin, the less need you would have for "cash"
The fed probably likes the idea just because it is cashless. If they can take over and/or compromise bitcoin somehow, then they are set to run this scam all over again using that currency instead of the dollar
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I still do not trust it, and I certainly don't trust the CIC (Communist in Control).
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I still do not trust it, and I certainly don't trust the CIC (Communist in Control).
Money IS trust. It is trust that makes you believe that if you accept it in return for the value of your time, your labor, your production that you will be able to exchange it later for the equivalent value from someone else. It can be anything. Shells, shiny rocks, beads, ammo, paper, or ones and zeros.
The Dollar is no more "real money" than Bit coin, than Yuan , or even Gold and silver. It all comes down to what you trust others to accept in the future.
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I still do not trust it, and I certainly don't trust the CIC (Communist in Control).
Money IS trust. It is trust that makes you believe that if you accept it in return for the value of your time, your labor, your production that you will be able to exchange it later for the equivalent value from someone else. It can be anything. Shells, shiny rocks, beads, ammo, paper, or ones and zeros.
The Dollar is no more "real money" than Bit coin, than Yuan , or even Gold and silver. It all comes down to what you trust others to accept in the future.
Let's say that again! MONEY IS TRUST! Amen, brother! And the puppetmasters at Fed/Treas are conducting Kabuki theater and once the inescapable realization is reached that fiat paper isn't worth spit that trust will shatter!
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We have enough stuff to barter for a long time. I actually anticipate that the lib communists will collapse our finances.
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We have enough stuff to barter for a long time. I actually anticipate that the lib communists will collapse our finances.
Cloward-Piven! : Its been the plan for 50+ years.
The Key question is when. We certainly don't have 10 years. Probably under 5. Quite probably under 2.
Hey, I will take as many years as they give me at the Fiat Gravy train
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OK, methinks the Limey's are trying too hard to co-opt bitcoin!
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-01/uk-royal-mint-working-plans-issue-gold-backed-physical-bitcoins (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-01/uk-royal-mint-working-plans-issue-gold-backed-physical-bitcoins)
Fiatizing digital currency seems a bit stupid, just my two bits...and besides, what would stop China for instance (whose been stacking physical gold faster than anybody!) announcing the Yuan is going on the gold standard? UK's efforts would fizzle.
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Ann Barnhardt isn't a fan of Bitcoin.
(http://www.barnhardt.biz/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Grumpy-300x165.jpg)
Ann Barnhardt Podcast December 3, ARSH 2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po5d7Pqr1q8#)
She claims each bitcoin is authenticated by going back and tracing the history of transactions, so she sees it as a security risk and the NSA's dream currency. I am not sure those "histories" are linkable with an individual-- I thought they were linked to which server the coin currently "resided" on .. so You could authenticate the creation of a coin to a certain server that "mined" it.
She of course points out that there is currently no rule of law and no expectation of moral behavior from other citizens or entities with power and therefore if you can't "roll around in it naked while holding an AR-15" it isn't yours. IN all she regards it as a Tulip Bubble and the currency is already be subject to manipulation by Soros or Soros wannabes - Just as Gold has been manipulated. Plus its vulnerable to EMP pulse, but really, the dollar is too - there is nowhere near enough cash to cover it. If someone running a bitcoin server started mining bitcoin and then printing some form of note or cash based on those bitcoins held in deposit, you would have something akin to the Dollar.
I think in a moral, stable world Bitcoin is a far better system than letting an organization like the Fed exist. But as Ann points out.. we don't live in that world.
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I don't know how anyone could possibly feel secure in Bitcoins. Ann is right! Look, our cash in banks is subject to 0s and 1s too and can disappear in a flash.
She's right, unless you have something material and physical in your hands, you're beholden to other people for the security of your savings.
Liberals are now looking to steal your 401s, you betta move 'em out while you still have something.
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"if you can't 'roll around in it naked while holding an AR-15' it isn't yours"
Precious metals bath! ::whoohoo::
"But as Ann points out.. we don't live in that world."
Aye.
"Liberals are now looking to steal your 401s, you betta move 'em out while you still have something."
Yup!
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FINCEN (Treasury goons with guns...just what we need, more Fedcoats with guns!) targets maker of physical bitcoins...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-12/producer-physical-casascius-bitcoins-being-targeted-feds (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-12/producer-physical-casascius-bitcoins-being-targeted-feds)
...they don't even pretend to counterfeit government legal tender, but the Fedcoats cannot stand any fiat replacement outside of their direct and express control!
Makes me want to get more than a few just for spite!!!
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{snip}
Bitcoin is just a massive public ledger
At heart, bitcoin is simply a huge public ledger, recording who gave what to whom and when: a long list of transactions (27 million at last count), replicated across a network of thousands of computers.
To work out how much bitcoin money you have, you just look down the list of your transactions and add them up.
To give someone bitcoin money, you send a ‘transfer please’ message to the network, which copies the request around the computers and checks all is in order. It is put in a block of transactions, which are added to the ledger (the ‘block chain’). That, in essence, is bitcoin.
This of course raises some questions. What’s to stop a computer in the network just adding whatever it likes to the block chain? The answer is that the block of transactions has to be agreed among the majority of the computers in the network. So any rogue computer is just ignored by the rest.
This in turn begs the question of how bitcoins are created in the first place – if the block chain records the spending, where do they originally come from? Well, bitcoins come from the operation of the network itself: before you gain the right to add a block, you need to solve a time-consuming complex mathematical puzzle. The puzzle is designed to be hard to solve, but easy to check – like a really fiendish sudoku.
The first computer to solve the puzzle tells the network and wins the ownership of 25 new bitcoins – and also takes ownership of the fees (if any) attached to the transactions in the block.
How bitcoin mining works
This process of solving the puzzle and adding new bitcoins to the ledger is called ‘mining’. The miners are competing with each other to be the first to find the solution to each puzzle. The puzzle is also designed to get ever more fiendish as the network gets faster, so that it always takes about ten minutes for the network to solve.
Unsurprisingly, an arms race has developed between miners, who have to use ever-faster computers just to stay in the game (the total computing power of the bitcoin network doubled in just the last month). The race has gone so far that mining now requires computers built from specially-designed bitcoin chips.
Mining is a zero-sum game, and will eventually become an activity finely balanced between the costs of electricity used for mining and the value of bitcoins produced (very similar to gold mining, where the costs are largely dictated by the price of fuel for the equipment used).
This is already happening: it’s now just a myth that an ordinary PC can be used for mining, because it runs so slowly that it costs a hundred times more in electricity than it could be expected to yield in bitcoins. As a result, the solo PC miners are dropping out.
The key point about the mining process is that it’s the miners competing to get new bitcoins and transaction fees that actually operate the bitcoin network. In effect, the self-interest of the miners in prospecting for bitcoins is being exploited to provide the underlying public service. Adam Smith would be proud.
http://moneyweek.com/bitcoin/ (http://moneyweek.com/bitcoin/)
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Invisible hand is nice, especially if it has some mass.
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I don't really understand Bitcoin, but apparently it just crashed and burned, and everyone who invested in it has now lost every penny.
Bitcoin Just Completely Crashed! All Withdrawals Halted! (http://beforeitsnews.com/economics-and-politics/2014/02/bitcoin-just-completely-crashed-massive-sell-off-in-progress-2461550.html)
In these just released videos from Dahboo7 and Blaine Cooper and story from Business Insider we learn that Bitcoin has just completely crashed and there is a massive sell-off in progress. With Bitcoin now going down the tubes, what’s next? Is this just another symptom of the global financial collapse that should be telling us that the ‘endgame’ is getting much closer?
Bitcoin just completely fell out of bed. The chart [at link], via BitcoinWisdom, shows the move...
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More here: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-10/bitcoin-flash-crashes-drops-80-seconds (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-10/bitcoin-flash-crashes-drops-80-seconds)
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More here: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-10/bitcoin-flash-crashes-drops-80-seconds (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-10/bitcoin-flash-crashes-drops-80-seconds)
That report doesn't sound as absolutely dire as the one I posted.
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Investing in a "virtual" currency seems to me to be as bad or worse than investing in fiat currencies. They are all, essentially, faith based except that your faith must be in fallible human beings behaving "correctly" in order for your investment to appreciate (at best).
Since we live in a time where cities (Detroit and others) and countries (Argentina, Venezuela, Puerto Rico, Greece, Portugal, etc.) are literally failing, perhaps today's best investments* will ultimately turn out to be ammunition and long term (storable) food. Gold, silver? Well, yes except that you can't do anything with them unless there is someone willing to take them from you (at an rate that is agreeable) in exchange for something you need. Right now I am able to count on my skills and knowledge in a barter economy if the need for one ever arises. Later, as I get older, I will have to rely more on other things and that is where food and ammo come in. And at some point I suppose that I will start to put some gold and silver aside. If they are at a good price.
But currencies? Virtual currencies? Fiat currencies? Seems like a great way to get very wealthy or very broke. I just don't need the stress. At least with a share of stock you actually are a part owner of a company/corporation that has (or should have) tangible assets. And (hopefully) profits. And real growth. But I'm not invested in stocks either these days. If I was going to invest in something traditional, though, it would be in a stock. Probably a blue chip stock at this point in my life. For right now, no.
*Also in the planning stages of building an alcohol still because, why not?
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More here: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-10/bitcoin-flash-crashes-drops-80-seconds (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-10/bitcoin-flash-crashes-drops-80-seconds)
That report doesn't sound as absolutely dire as the one I posted.
No, but it should serve as a warning shot across the bow for the prudent. Of course, the prudent won't be invested with any money they cannot afford to lose.
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Investing in a "virtual" currency seems to me to be as bad or worse than investing in fiat currencies. They are all, essentially, faith based except that your faith must be in fallible human beings behaving "correctly" in order for your investment to appreciate (at best).
Bitcoin may ( or may not be) a fine investment as a means of exchange.. but its traded on corrupt markets and will therefore be subject to the same HFT and other manipulation as any other asset traded on those markets. TPTB may have decided bitcoin was getting to big for its britches and decided to force a dump - just as the force a dump in silver and Gold every morning when the american exchange opens.
And at some point I suppose that I will start to put some gold and silver aside. If they are at a good price.
I think what you are seeing now is as good a price as you will get in your lifetime. Silver is not going to return to $3 and Gold is not going to return to $200 because of the $ sign in front. In the end you will probably be able to purchase $3 and $200 worth of goods with them ( in pricing relative to that era) but if you plan on buying them with Fiat, the artificial suppression of the price going on right now is your best chance.
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I think what you are seeing now is as good a price as you will get in your lifetime. Silver is not going to return to $3 and Gold is not going to return to $200 because of the $ sign in front. In the end you will probably be able to purchase $3 and $200 worth of goods with them ( in pricing relative to that era) but if you plan on buying them with Fiat, the artificial suppression of the price going on right now is your best chance.
Well, that's sort of why I have never really been impressed with gold (or silver) as an investment. It seems to be a good hedge against inflation, though. It seems to be able to purchase about the same value in goods and service today as it did a hundred years ago. So...won't make you wealthy but perhaps a good place to dump excess money rather than keep it in cash.
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Well, that's sort of why I have never really been impressed with gold (or silver) as an investment. It seems to be a good hedge against inflation, though. It seems to be able to purchase about the same value in goods and service today as it did a hundred years ago. So...won't make you wealthy but perhaps a good place to dump excess money rather than keep it in cash.
Well, that is pretty much the definition of solid money - it should buy in a hundred years what it bought 100 years ago. If Bitcoin ( or anything else) becomes a stable currency then pretty much the same thing would be said of it. In the ideal case, the money supply should expand only commensurate to the total expansion of value created..
So no gold not an "investment" in that I would NOT expect to be any more wealthy in 10 years than I was today as far as real purchasing power goes.. and I would park such capital as you cannot spend in it.. but we have found out there is an awful lot to buy. We basically took our "emergency reserve" - the money I kept on hand for job loss basically, and converted it to gold and silver ( and then lost it in the lake) back when silver was at $8 and Gold at $600. - and if you look at inflation being around 8% over that time, you would expect the price to about double.. and oh look, it did. So yes that is working as expected. However we still have significant amounts ( much larger than the reserve I mentioned) still sitting in fiat at the banks. This month we actually might reach the credit limit on my credit card we are buying so much stuff that is not shiny. ...
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Heard of bitcoin mining...bitcoin poaching though, that's new.
http://gizmodo.com/somebody-hacked-into-silk-road-2-and-stole-all-the-bitc-1522447611 (http://gizmodo.com/somebody-hacked-into-silk-road-2-and-stole-all-the-bitc-1522447611)
"transaction malleability"
Quick! This person is ready for high-profile Federal Reserve or a large Money-center banking position immediately!!!
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I said repeatedly that this was a scam.
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I said repeatedly that this was a scam.
No more and no less than the Federal Reserve System is.
Its software and networks. This crap is going to happen - its an inherent vulnerability- as the nvalue goes up the number of smart people looking for ways to subvert they system goes up. If you have access to a quantum computer ( and I am betting the folks at NSA do) then its almost trivial to take something liek this down. And they will fix the vulnerability and another will be found - and so on till computing power gets to the point where mining is trivial.. and a new cryptography is required. and so on.
The Fed has a vulnerability too. Its called people, and its far more difficult to correct and control.
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I agree, W. I just never trusted the bitcoin since it's inception.
The FED is another ball of worms.
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I am not against it per se, anything that gives fiat competition is a good thing, but it is always at risk of being gamed by the same people gaming fiat. I prefer shiny stuff that is easily lost at sea and other tangible goods.
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Mt. Gox Disappears (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/25/us-mtgox-website-idUSBREA1O07920140225)
So what happens when the servers that mined your bit coin in the first place go away? Oops.
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Who absconded with the fiat? Karpeles? Friends of Karpeles? A former employee? Outside person/group?
A document circulating on the Internet purporting to be a crisis plan for Mt. Gox, said more than 744,000 bitcoins were "missing due to malleability-related theft", and noted Mt. Gox had $174 million in liabilities against $32.75 million in assets. It was not possible to verify the document or the exchange's financial situation.
Uhh huh.
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(http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2jjt8h5vK1rtlk9qo1_500.gif)
Just sayin'
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Wow. Nice...umm...balloons. ::thumbsup::
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Bitcoin firm CEO found dead in suspected suicide (http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2014/03/05/bitcoin-firm-ceo-found-dead-in-suspected-suicide/)
It appears bitcoin’s recent turmoil has claimed its first life.
Autumn Ratke a 28-year-old American CEO of bitcoin exchange firm First Meta was found dead in her Singapore apartment on Feb. 28.
Local media are calling it a suicide, but Singapore officials are waiting for toxicology test results. Ratke formerly worked with Apple and other Silicon Valley tech firms on developing digital payment systems.
Ratke’s death brings the number of questionable financial sector deaths this year to eight. On Feb. 18 a 33-year-old JPMorgan finance pro leaped to his death the roof of the JPMorgan’s 30-story Hong Kong office tower.
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Bitcoin firm CEO found dead in suspected suicide (http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2014/03/05/bitcoin-firm-ceo-found-dead-in-suspected-suicide/)
It appears bitcoin’s recent turmoil has claimed its first life.
Autumn Ratke a 28-year-old American CEO of bitcoin exchange firm First Meta was found dead in her Singapore apartment on Feb. 28.
Local media are calling it a suicide, but Singapore officials are waiting for toxicology test results. Ratke formerly worked with Apple and other Silicon Valley tech firms on developing digital payment systems.
Ratke’s death brings the number of questionable financial sector deaths this year to eight. On Feb. 18 a 33-year-old JPMorgan finance pro leaped to his death the roof of the JPMorgan’s 30-story Hong Kong office tower.
This links up to here http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?topic=10459.0 (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?topic=10459.0) do you think?
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The Tax Man cometh for thy Bitcoins!
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-26/irs-slams-bitcoin-retroactive-tax-rules-gold-next (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-26/irs-slams-bitcoin-retroactive-tax-rules-gold-next)
First currency wannabe's, later gold & silver?
Catch me if you can!
(Hope you IRS goons can scuba!)
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The Tax Man cometh for thy Bitcoins!
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-26/irs-slams-bitcoin-retroactive-tax-rules-gold-next (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-26/irs-slams-bitcoin-retroactive-tax-rules-gold-next)
First currency wannabe's, later gold & silver?
Catch me if you can!
(Hope you IRS goons can scuba!)
I call BS.. Applying Capital income rules to bitcoin as an investment seems unsurprising. I always assumed that such would apply if you followed the rules.
Gold and Silver are not only taxed as capital gains, but as "collectibles" - at 30% on your gain. The thing is the govt can't tax you on it if they don't know about it. If your bitcoin firm doesn't send the IRS forms reporting your gains, as a stock broker would, then the IRS would need to audit you to find out. And how would they ever find out you mined some bitcoin?
Same with Gold.. if your gold dealer doesn't report your sale ( which was really what that gold provision in Obamacare was about) then they don't know about that either. You sell for cash or barter and they don't know squat, and since the IRS isn't following the rules and has become a draconian punishment wing of the fascist Obama administration, the honor system is breaking down and people aren't voluntarily following the rules anymore, but I don't think these rules are "new"
But my take on Gold or Bitcoin is they are hedges against dollar inflation. You buy and then you don't sell. When gold was near $2000 and silver was over $40, I wasn't even tempted to sell, not that I could with everything lost in the boating accident. . Perhaps if I was smarter I would have dredged them up and sold and bought back in after the drop which really you know TPTB would engineer ( but at that time you were wondering, why haven't they dropped it already?) but even when that drop came, prices were still 2-3 times higher than they were when I bought.
If I were single, I would be following Ann Barnhardt in her strike-- just stop filing, empty my bank accounts and make them come for it. I agree with her its the right thing to do, but that forces the confrontation that will arrive at my door sooner than it might arrive, and risks my family and children. You will note part of Ann's strategy is to not earn much..and its unlikely the IRS will target her ( unless its for political reasons) because the gain they would get on her back taxes owed on 20K of wages isn't worth even an hour of a IRS Thugs' time. I am not ready for that yet. I am Still filing and paying significant tax bills, and really that income too will come to an end sooner or later of is own accord as the collapse continues, so may as well ride that train till it stops and compete my preps as well as I am able. I would probably need another 3 years to really finish everything I want to finish, but I agree with Schiff, I don't see this lasting Obama's term.
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Obama is term limited? We still thinking that? We still thinking that matters? The next libiot will keep the circus going the right direction...downhill.
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Obama is term limited? We still thinking that? We still thinking that matters? The next libiot will keep the circus going the right direction...downhill.
At this point the whole government is term limited. The expiration of the dollar will be the expiration of the Fed.
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Y'all remember the Feds going after economic terrorists like the anti-dollar Bitcoin? (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?topic=2651.msg30003#msg30003) Yeah, well, turns out infiltration had its perks...as in laundering $1M in Bitcoin swindle! (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-30/federal-agents-investigating-bitcoin-money-laundering-stole-over-1-million-bitcoin)
Yeah, government hates all competition, even criminal activity...but these clowns have to be the dumbest of the bunch to get caught skiming, they look like pikers compared to the Fed/WallSt/CronyCapitalist/RulingClass cabal!!!
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Cross posted here... http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?topic=3449.new#new (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?topic=3449.new#new)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-01/greek-finmin-greece-will-adopt-bitcoin-if-eurogroup-doesnt-give-us-deal (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-01/greek-finmin-greece-will-adopt-bitcoin-if-eurogroup-doesnt-give-us-deal)
Heh, yeah...good luck with that!