Author Topic: Should be simple case of "touch my cattle or me, you die"!  (Read 14584 times)

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Offline Libertas

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We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

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Re: Should be simple case of "touch my cattle or me, you die"!
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2014, 12:39:06 PM »
Quote
... son, Dave, was arrested and allegedly roughed up Sunday for filming federal agents while outside an area designated for First Amendment activity on the restricted property.

Uh hunh.
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Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Should be simple case of "touch my cattle or me, you die"!
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2014, 12:43:51 PM »
I sure don't want these ranchers harmed. But I sure do want federal agents harmed.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

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Offline Glock32

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Re: Should be simple case of "touch my cattle or me, you die"!
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2014, 01:40:56 PM »
Quote
... son, Dave, was arrested and allegedly roughed up Sunday for filming federal agents while outside an area designated for First Amendment activity on the restricted property.

Uh hunh.


That is precisely the part that infuriates me.  Why, oh why, are we allowing the government to get away with the idea that the constitutional restraints on its power only apply in certain designated areas?  The implication being that outside those little set asides, the government has unrestricted authority.  I'm sick of hearing the term "free speech zone" -- the whole damned country is a "free speech zone" -- and I'm even more sick of hearing the stupid-ass media breathlessly repeat the term without the slightest sense of irony or curiosity.

I swear, they are no longer even pretending that their power is in any way constrained.  For all intents and purposes, it's not.  The formal constraints are meaningless when they're not enforced.
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Offline AlanS

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Re: Should be simple case of "touch my cattle or me, you die"!
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2014, 02:47:54 PM »
Quote
The rancher said that he hopes Clark County Sheriff Doug Gillespie intervenes soon and ends the face-off once and for all.

“The federal government has no authority here,” Bundy said. “The sheriff has the authority. All he has to say is, ‘no’ and that’ll get the federal government out of here. I think he has that much power.”

It seems unlikely at this point, however, that the sheriff will intervene, as he has opted to let federal agents handle the situation. The sheriff has in the past advised Bundy on seeking legal counsel while the sheriff has extended federal deadlines.

The sheriff’s office referred media inquiries to the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, which confirmed to TheBlaze Monday that federal officials are handling the Bundy operation.

“That incident is being handled by another agency,” a Las Vegas police spokeswoman said. “It’s something we’re referring people to the BLM.”

Asked about Bundy’s claim that the sheriff’s office has ignored him, the spokeswoman added: “There’s nothing further that’s coming from this department about that incident, this operation. We’re just referring everything over to BLM. It’s not our operation. There’s no statement that has been issued about it.”

Sheriff wussing out.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Should be simple case of "touch my cattle or me, you die"!
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2014, 06:52:21 AM »
Gutless coward.  Well, he's set the precent that he'll cave to Fedcoats, so maybe the next citizen getting their rights trampled and armed goons and snipers et al stalk somebody close to him.  Idiot!

And this "free speech zone" crap can be all laid at the feet of the progressives!  If not for their sit-in's and smell-in's that disrupted normal business they would never have come into being...and they started being used as political weapons when they were dropped like an anvil on anti-abortion protestors...and it's gone downhill since...

Oh, don't have your permit to assemble?  f**k your Constitution and Bill of Rights, no permit...it's jail and a fine for your ass, citizen!

And this...

The BLM designated 186,909 acres of the Gold Butte off-limits for the “critical desert tortoise” population in 1998. Bundy had already lost his grazing permit five years earlier for refusing to pay fees for the land, which his family has ranched since the 1870s.

http://freebeacon.com/issues/last-man-standing/

So sick of Enviro-Nazi's ans their animal rights activist cousines f**king everybody over with these Draconian eco-regs!!!

Make me want to drive out there and slaughter ever damned desert tortoise I can find!!!

 ::machinegun::



ETA - Gov. Sandoval wades in...with talk...

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2014/04/09/nevada-governor-calls-federal-cattle-roundup-intimidation/

...I'd have more respect for the Governor if he dispatched armed National Guards to flush the Fedcoats off!!!
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 02:48:10 PM by Libertas »
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Libertas

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Re: Should be simple case of "touch my cattle or me, you die"!
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2014, 07:33:30 AM »
Gosh, I dunno...they got enough armed Fedcoats here or what?

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2014/04/09/defiant-nevada-rancher-faces-armed-federal-agents-in-escalating-confiscation-standoff-111391

Could be a Lexington & Concord moment...
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Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Should be simple case of "touch my cattle or me, you die"!
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2014, 08:07:39 AM »
Gosh, I dunno...they got enough armed Fedcoats here or what?

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2014/04/09/defiant-nevada-rancher-faces-armed-federal-agents-in-escalating-confiscation-standoff-111391

Could be a Lexington & Concord moment...

I don't think so..  This guy is trying to fight a Federal land Grab that the State itself obviously isn't willing to fight.  This rancher does not own the land in dispute - so while this may very well end in violence ( and if it does its his duty to kill at least one fed before he goes)  I do not see this as the rallying call -- that will only come when they attempt to disarm us.  Really this event may just be staged as a way of threatening others - see- this will happen to you if you stand against the fed ! We will send 100+ men  to raid your farm and terrorize your wife and kids!  Don't sell raw Milk-- that is a crime worthy of a midnight raid in which we  illegally seize your property and ruin you.  Don't let your cattle wander!  Don't break the upcoming regulations on child labor on a farm or controlling dust as you plow.



Offline Libertas

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Re: Should be simple case of "touch my cattle or me, you die"!
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2014, 10:43:35 AM »
And that isn't more reason to open fire on tyrants...?

Not advocating...  ::stirpot::   ;)  ...jus' askin'...

 ::thinking::

ETA  -  http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/04/nevada-bundy-ranch-standoff-feds-taser-family-members-kill-cows-video/

People should be upping the pressure on the Fedcoats IMO...

And Jeesh...

http://im41.com/archives/49279

Do I got some ideas?  Sure, I got ideas... 

Run away!  Run away!

 ::hysterical::

And, Hell yeah!



http://weaselzippers.us/182359-video-feds-use-attack-dogs-and-tasers-against-protesters-trying-to-protect-nevada-cattle-ranch/

 ::thumbsup::
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 11:43:59 AM by Libertas »
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Online Pandora

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Re: Should be simple case of "touch my cattle or me, you die"!
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2014, 01:20:05 PM »
Gosh, I dunno...they got enough armed Fedcoats here or what?

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2014/04/09/defiant-nevada-rancher-faces-armed-federal-agents-in-escalating-confiscation-standoff-111391

Could be a Lexington & Concord moment...

I don't think so..  This guy is trying to fight a Federal land Grab that the State itself obviously isn't willing to fight.  This rancher does not own the land in dispute - so while this may very well end in violence ( and if it does its his duty to kill at least one fed before he goes)  I do not see this as the rallying call -- that will only come when they attempt to disarm us.  Really this event may just be staged as a way of threatening others - see- this will happen to you if you stand against the fed ! We will send 100+ men  to raid your farm and terrorize your wife and kids!  Don't sell raw Milk-- that is a crime worthy of a midnight raid in which we  illegally seize your property and ruin you.  Don't let your cattle wander!  Don't break the upcoming regulations on child labor on a farm or controlling dust as you plow.

So, who owns the land, then?  The Feds?  I don't care.  The guy's family has been grazing on that land for a long time and they always paid the fees.  What the BLM did was raise the fees to a prohibitive level in order to get all the ranchers out.  That's what the dispute over how much he owes is about.  It worked with the other ranchers; they got out.

If the problem is some damn turtle, what's with the fee raise?  It's a ploy, is what.  This is just more Agenda 21 bullsht.
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Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Should be simple case of "touch my cattle or me, you die"!
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2014, 02:01:18 PM »

So, who owns the land, then?  The Feds?  I don't care.  The guy's family has been grazing on that land for a long time and they always paid the fees.  What the BLM did was raise the fees to a prohibitive level in order to get all the ranchers out.  That's what the dispute over how much he owes is about.  It worked with the other ranchers; they got out.

If the problem is some damn turtle, what's with the fee raise?  It's a ploy, is what.  This is just more Agenda 21 bullsht.

The State owns the land. The Feds are asserting Jurisdiction over it, and yes,  its agenda 21.
The BLM admin just KILLED a whole bunch of these "endangered turtles" on purpose.  The point was pushing Ranchers out of the kings forest.  If this is where the revolution starts, I am fine with that.  I just doubt this is it. ...and I formed that opinion before I read this (for anyone who thinks I am overly influenced by what Ann says :)

And here is Ann's take ( who used to be heavily involved in the cattle industry)

Quote
2.  Regarding the cattleman in Nevada: I would strongly discourage you all from hitching your cart to this particular horse.  While I have all manner of criticisms of the BLM and certainly of thuggish FEDGOV tactics, it is essential that one pick one’s battles very carefully, and this is NOT a good battle to pick.  The guy in question has been grazing his cattle at essentially zero feed cost for upwards of twenty years (well, THAT makes the cattle business easier, doesn’t it!) because he stopped paying the BLM any lease charges.  Again, we can debate all manner of things including the ridiculous rules about closing land to grazing in order to “protect” lizards or prairie chickens or whatever the fake “endangered species” du jour is, and certainly we can debate the existence of the BLM itself, but there is no free lunch; everyone else pays to graze.  This guy is claiming, as I understand it, some grandfathered right to the land through the Mormon cult (again, BIG red flag), but I don’t buy it.  This situation stinks all around to my refined sniffer, and I would NOT die on this hill.  Since so many have asked, that is my read.  Just be careful with this one.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 02:25:00 PM by Weisshaupt »

Offline Libertas

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Re: Should be simple case of "touch my cattle or me, you die"!
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2014, 02:35:39 PM »
The State owns the land. The Feds are asserting Jurisdiction over it

Now, that right there is the nut of the problem...aparently Nevada likes ceding their rights to the Fedcoats...stupid on so many levels...it's why I said the Governor should call in the Guard and shoo them Fed's out...let them try to fire on Guard troopers...

And all due respect to Ann, "not the hill to die on", come on, she's more influenced by this guy than the actions the Fed's are taking, the guy in the larger scheme of things is irrelevent, the principle of state rights and reinvigorating the 10th Amendment is worth fighting and dying for!

If you are waiting for the perfect opportunity you are basically waiting to be enslaved, because you are ceding the choice of ground to fight on to the enemy...because now the Feds can say, yeah, we have and will continue to get away with this shyt!  It's always gonna be harder to stop if you wait for the next hill...

 ::gaah::
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Re: Should be simple case of "touch my cattle or me, you die"!
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2014, 03:57:46 PM »
If any are waiting for the perfect and pure victim of the Feds overreaching before taking his side, we might as well give the hell up right now.  Nobody's pure, particularly now that there are so many damn laws, everybody is "guilty" of something.

Furthermore, Ann's got her facts wrong, according to what I read and I put that in writing (about the grazing fees) a couple of posts up.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Should be simple case of "touch my cattle or me, you die"!
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2014, 06:36:47 AM »
Yup.

"the not-the-hill-to-die-on crowd" will get us all enslaved...  Enough of that noise!

And yes, let us not overlook the Fedcoat design to drive an entire industry into the dust!

I guess people are capable of taking more crap than we are...time to maybe stop asking "when is critical mass going to hit?" and start pushing back to make it so?

Our frustration runneth over...

 ::angry::



ETA - Militia entering the fray...

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2014/04/10/expect-to-see-a-band-of-soldiers-militia-members-arrive-at-nevada-ranch/

All it takes is one Fedcoat firing on one citizen...
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 07:12:35 AM by Libertas »
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Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Should be simple case of "touch my cattle or me, you die"!
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2014, 09:50:17 AM »
If any are waiting for the perfect and pure victim of the Feds overreaching before taking his side, we might as well give the hell up right now.  Nobody's pure, particularly now that there are so many damn laws, everybody is "guilty" of something.

Furthermore, Ann's got her facts wrong, according to what I read and I put that in writing (about the grazing fees) a couple of posts up.

Quote from: Libertas
"the not-the-hill-to-die-on crowd" will get us all enslaved...  Enough of that noise!

My problem is I can see about a Dozen other hills better than this one, that are there right now or were there recently...  Dozens of illegal checkpoints in Constitution Free Zones,  The undeclared Martial Law of Boston, the seizure of Wyoming lands and gifting of it to the Indians, the Welder in Wyoming who the EPA is hassling about a stock pond,  the Closure of any of the private homes on leased public land, the closure of the WWII memorial and the mall, The un-constitutional  gun laws  in CT and Colorado (or California.. but its a lost cause..)   and so on.

I agree we aren't going to find the perfect victim of the Fed, but I think most can admit the above list all provide better and more clear cut opportunities  than this one.   Intellectually this isn't the hill to die on.  Emotionally, however,  at this point I am beyond caring when, where or how it starts, and I suspect a number of others feel the same way. I think there are a lot of folks itching to serve some justice to these thugs, and if it happens here so be it. I understand and agree this is about the Fed land grabbing  and deliberately ruining the ranching business there and in consequence  the families who did it for their livelihood, and that this is simply the last man standing against that malicious onslaught.  I just don't like how much opportunity it gives the government to portray it ( truthfully)  as a lone man laying claim to public lands for his own personal  use, and not the other way around.  The optics here are poor -  you don't see multiple families and businesses protesting the imposition of exorbitant fees that will put them out of business, you see one family grazing cattle where  everyone else has ceded control and  vacated.

What is more disturbing to me is that the government is manipulating  the optics and pushing for a conflict here- the things they are doing are only going to piss off people like us and goad  us to action. You don't put up "first amendment areas" , and beat up protesters  including pregnant women if all you want to do is move some cows.  That is being done to deliberately inflame the passions of people like us.

 I think TPTB are using this lone rancher's resistance to form another WACO opportunity - as a controllable rebellion false/flag event that will poison the well of  public perception , and encourage the low-information drone  to dismiss  future events that are more clear cut  as the work of "lone nuts" and "militia members" - TPTB feel this conflict is a winner for them- that they can win this in the court of public opinion, counting on the brutality they are displaying to be dismissed as what "the guilty, greedy, rancher laying claim to "our lands" deserves"...

It would be far harder to do that if the same thing were happening over a stock pond, built following the rules, on a rancher's own land.  You can bet the next conflict will be on those lines, but TPTB are counting on the public assuming its another "Nevada" event and ignoring it. This is exactly the sort of "nuanced" situation these Asshats like to exploit..
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 09:53:27 AM by Weisshaupt »

Offline Libertas

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Re: Should be simple case of "touch my cattle or me, you die"!
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2014, 11:31:46 AM »
Have had enough of nuance too...

I guess the British had control of the meme in Pre-Revolutionary War America...the Sons of Liberty were called every vile name in the book including "traitors"...so,...

And who had "lawful" access to those weapons and munitions at Concord?  They belonged to the militia...and I am sure the rebels thought it theirs and the British thought legally it was theirs since it was the Crown that authorized the locals to form militias in the first place and since they traditionally served under British officers when deployed into action...naturally they must obey British orders.

So, what?  A few words defined by the tyrannical government and its legal interpretations that these rebels are engaging in unlawful activity and it being portrayed as such in the mainstream Loyalist media should have made it clear to these criminals that Breed's Hill and Lexington & Concord weren't the right hills to die on...for such nuanced principles all summing up to the same thing - tired of taking their tyrannical crap anymore?

Stand down, disband, go home and wait...

That's all people are doing...

...and the Tyrants will win.
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Re: Should be simple case of "touch my cattle or me, you die"!
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2014, 03:15:14 PM »
Y'all should read these:

http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-harry-reid-behind-blm-land-grab-of-bundy-ranch/

Quote
The Bureau of Land Management, whose Director was Sen. Harry Reid’s (D-Nev.) former senior adviser, has purged documents from its web site stating that the agency wants Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy’s cattle off of the land his family has worked for over 140 years in order to make way for solar panel power stations.   

... “[Reid] and his oldest son, Rory, are both involved in an effort by a Chinese energy giant, ENN Energy Group, to build a $5 billion solar farm and panel manufacturing plant in the southern Nevada desert,” he wrote. “Reid has been one of the project’s most prominent advocates, helping recruit the company during a 2011 trip to China and applying his political muscle on behalf of the project in Nevada.”

“His son, a lawyer with a prominent Las Vegas firm that is representing ENN, helped it locate a 9,000-acre (3,600-hectare) desert site that it is buying well below appraised value from Clark County, where Rory Reid formerly chaired the county commission.”

Although these reports are in plain view, the mainstream media has so far ignored this link.

.... with a link to http://danaloeschradio.com/the-real-story-of-the-bundy-ranch/

Quote
BLM has also tried to argue that the rules have changed, long after Bundy claims he secured rights and paid his dues to Clark County, Nevada. BLM says they supersede whatever agreement Bundy had prior; they demanded that he reduce his living, his thousand-some-odd head of cattle down to a tiny herd of 150. It’s easy for the government to grant itself powers of overreach, but it doesn’t make it right. Many bad things are done in the name of unjust laws. Just look at Obamacare. This heavy-handed tactic has run the other ranchers from the area and now Bundy is the last one. He’s the last one because he stood up to the federal government.

So why does BLM want to run Bundy off this land and is Reid connected?

I discussed this on “Kelly File” tonight, video via Jim Hoft.

*UPDATE: Those who say Bundy is a “deadbeat” are making inaccurate claims. Bundy has in fact paid fees to Clark County, Nevada in an arrangement pre-dating the BLM. The BLM arrived much later, changed the details of the setup without consulting with Bundy — or any other rancher — and then began systematically driving out cattle and ranchers. Bundy refused to pay BLM, especially after they demanded he reduce his heard’s head count down to a level that would not sustain his ranch. Bundy OWNS the water and forage rights to this land. He paid for these rights. He built fences, established water ways, and constructed roads with his own money, with the approval of Nevada and BLM. When BLM started using his fees to run him off the land and harassing him, he ceased paying. So should BLM reimburse him for managing the land and for the confiscation of his water and forage rights?

Cliven Bundy’s problem isn’t that he didn’t pay — he did — or that his cattle bother tortoises — they don’t — it’s that he’s not a Reid donor.

.... and http://www.infowars.com/before-nevada-cattle-rancher-dispute-blm-was-euthanizing-endangered-desert-tortoise/

Quote
Months before the heated contention between the Bureau of Land Management and Nevada cattle rancher Cliven Bundy, purportedly over protecting an endangered species of desert tortoise, the BLM was euthanizing the tortoises in droves.

Lastly, http://www.infowars.com/20-cowboys-break-fed-blockade-in-nevada-retrieve-cattle/
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Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Should be simple case of "touch my cattle or me, you die"!
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2014, 10:24:04 PM »
Good Commentary at ZH

Quote
This may seem like a minor event, a tiff over cattle grazing or possibly property rights, but there is much more going on here.

Tyranny leaves lasting scars, and each tyrannical act results in an accumulation of wounds on the public psyche that do not heal. In the end, a single event can become a trigger to unleash a torrent of rage pent up in a population for years or decades. The fight for Cliven Bundy's farm has the potential to become such a trigger....

However, I believe that if this situation escalates into a Waco or Ruby Ridge brand of event, not only Liberty Movement residents of Nevada, but Liberty Movement champions across the nation will indeed finally throw down the gauntlet. What does that mean? It means they are going to start shooting.  Opposing groups can debate whether this is a good thing or a bad thing, but the reality is that one way or another, it is going to happen.

Discussions within the movement are far from apathetic. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of eyes are watching every move of the BLM right now, and they should be taking this fact very seriously.

The naysayers will claim that we don't have the will to take action. They are welcome to think whatever they like. But mark my words, Constitutionally minded Americans are not going to stand by and watch another massacre, nor a loss of gun rights, nor will we be entertaining violations of our freedoms for much longer. This society is on the edge of something. It's kinetic, or electric. It is not yet quite visible but it is there, reverberating in the atmosphere. My suggestion to our federal bureaucracy would be to do what they did during the gun debate, and quickly back away.

Of course, we all know they won't.

Do the elites want to stir up insurgency in order to give pretense for a larger crackdown? They very well might. But it is transparent in the way they try to mitigate dissent and offer placation that they do not want a rebellion larger than they can manage. I think it is far too late for that. I think they've pissed off too many people, instead of just enough people. I think that though most pretend-Americans will do nothing but watch in horror or hide in their hovels, the size of resistance to the tides of despotism is growing far beyond common realizations. And, when this resistance erupts, it will shock even those who fully expect it.

Emphasis mine, because that is the big question...
I know that I have been stewing for years now, and if a legitimate change to strike  back at my arrogant, elitist  oppressors presents itself, I will grab it with  relish and do them as much damage as I am capable of.

 

Offline John Florida

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Re: Should be simple case of "touch my cattle or me, you die"!
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2014, 12:06:11 PM »
  Till  the shooting starts it won't stop.
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Offline trapeze

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Bundy wins. For now.

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« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 01:18:45 PM by trapeze »
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.