Author Topic: Thoughts from GI's  (Read 8622 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

charlesoakwood

  • Guest
Thoughts from GI's
« on: June 25, 2011, 06:40:39 PM »

LINK
[blockquote]
Quote
A Request To All Current/Former NCOs And Other Small Unit Leaders

...Responses will be accepted though 6 pm edt on 20 June. Make any assumptions you need to keep the scenario realistic (e.g, terrain, etc.), but state those assumptions and how your response would have changed had the facts been different.

The objective is to provide some experienced guidance on a situation many will face in the coming weeks, months, and years.

Thank you in advance for your participation.

Scenario: The bad thing has happened, and you find yourself as senior person in a very mixed group of 15 men, women, and young people aged 10 through 72, all of whom are in various levels of physical condition. Note that while you have a few vets, you DO NOT have any Deltas, scout-snipers, or other operators – just a mixed bag of scared 21st-century Americans.

Arms, ammo, and gear are the expected mixed bag, and skill levels are unknown.

You expect pressure from remnant government forces, local predators (both single/small groups and larger, more organized bad-guy groups a la MS13), and international relief forces (who will disarm any ‘refugees’ they find and send them to ‘relief camps’). Food supplies are dwindling, and you have adequate but limited water purification resources. You assume overhead imagery via UAVs and sigint collection are still functioning for the government remnants and/or international forces, voice and data cell service is sporadic, all roads are significantly interdicted with fixed and rolling roadblocks, and POL is generally not available commercially due to the “emergency”.

What do you do, in detail, over the next:

- Three minutes
– Three hours
– Three days
– Three weeks
– Three months

Explain ‘why’ as well as ‘what’ you are doing, and when you would do other things.

80 Responses to A Request
[/blockquote]
Came across this and the perspective from GI's are interesting.



charlesoakwood

  • Guest
Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2011, 08:26:34 PM »

Many links source site                                                             

Come and Take It

The following fictional scenario combined with an essay originally appeared on the OTM website founded by visionary author Charles Hugh Smith. I’m re-posting this essay here because it ties together both my avid pursuit of current events covering actual resource wars as well as my love for dreaming up hypothetical futures.

Come and Take It (Chris Sullins, August 12, 2008)

The state capitol court building was still in remarkable shape given everything that had happened in the nation over the last five years. It was now surrounded by an outer wall of steel-reinforced concrete topped with a spiral of razor wire. The grounds enclosed by the security wall included both a rotunda with a memorial to the state’s Vietnam War dead and a grassy area where the Blackhawk which brought Tom Hedge had just landed. Things had changed a lot since Tom’s father had fought in the war and returned home to this state. Tom twisted his wrists slightly against the cable tie handcuffs which bound him and continued to walk between two soldiers. He thought “How has it come to this.”

After the helicopter lifted off and left, its rotor sound was replaced by the hum of a massive generator housed in a shipping container at the edge of the field. As the soldiers took Tom up the steps to the court building, he noticed woodstove pipes which jutted randomly out of some windows on each floor. They weren’t in use now that it was mid-Summer, but he saw stacks of split wood and piles coal placed off to one side along the building’s foundation stones.

At the top of the steps was a large open verandah that was sand-bagged to waist high. Various soldiers and state police officers milled around on this deck talking and smoking. They all wore body armor and were armed with both rifles and handguns. Tom was led past this group through a set of windowless double steel doors. He immediately felt the cool air from mechanical air-conditioning –something he thought had been lost to the past. He found it somewhat amusing that the metal detector arch and x-ray baggage machine was off, though.

Tom was escorted through the atrium and to the left where he entered a large courtroom. Five judges sat on the bench facing across from the entryway, a dozen men in suits stood around tables facing the judges, and more soldiers and state police officers sat along the walls. Off to one side Tom noticed men sitting in mixed camouflage uniforms and recognized them as his comrades and survivors from yesterday’s battle. All were in zip-ties and some were in bandages. He was placed with them. Although he had been re-elected as their leader two years ago no one looked up or acknowledged him in any way.

The court was called to order and after some instructions from one judge to the stenographer, one of the men in suits began speaking and listing the charges against Tom and his group. Some of the men’s heads sank lower while others closed their eyes; Tom drifted off to thoughts of the past. He remembered the terrible events over the last five years which resulted in the state losing over 90% of its population –75% within the first year alone.

“…Tom Hedge and his men then seized equipment from the State Guard Armory at Springfield including tanks, armored personnel carriers, small-arms, and assorted ammunition…”

Tom felt he did his best to control the local situation after the old order fell apart. After the national grid went down and didn’t come back, it didn’t take long before hordes of people from the city nearby in the next state began to drift across his county. With no real leadership left in the decapitated federal government out East followed by the lack of re-supply and later loss of radio communication with the state government, Hedge and his men had to make the hard decisions and use any local resources at hand.

“…witnesses who will provide testimony of unlawful detention, forced labor, the denial of food and medical care…”

Food was always in short supply for the first three years. All the canned food was consumed in the first few weeks; most of the livestock that hadn’t been eaten during the first winter was stolen in the middle of the night during a raid from the county to the east, wild game became rare at best, and fish in the lakes were depleted. Local farming only made a good comeback last year after a long time subsisting on fruit trees, berries, wild roots and any imported goods they could barter from travelling merchants. Although the food supply had improved, local agriculture was now very labor intensive and this had come with hard choices –do you feed tractors, tanks, or people?

“…conspired with terrorists from the stateless Western Expanse to raid the bio-diesel facility in our neighboring allied state of…”

Much to his surprise Tom had learned that some people were never interested in on the spot gold or silver bullion trades for their goods and services. Even after the old order of things fell apart and the national currency became worthless, these people still spoke of “written contracts” and “verbal agreements” with people living in other places. He was even more amazed to find out some of these outside deals made in advance were for less than what he had offered.

“…in violation of the Tri-State Treaty signed in Fort Wayne last year. I should add the State Attorney General has also received a request for extradition in regard to a separate incident…”

Hedge’s men had captured a so-called messenger from the reorganized State government two years ago. The man stated he was sent out to contact the leadership in each of the counties on the old map and have them send representatives to the State Capitol Building for a meeting. He said the State was aware of Hedge and his men and wanted them to attend as well.

The traveler talked about a lot of big plans the State government had in mind such as getting the rail lines working again. With the trains running they could start trading again with some of the neighboring states. However, he didn’t know when regular rail transportation would include Tom’s part of the state.

Tom told the man he didn’t believe the new state government would be any different than the last one. It was just another group trying to assert power. What came next? Taxes? The last state government did nothing except leave them flapping in the breeze when things were at their worst. Tom sent the man on his way with a simple “We’re not interested. Don’t come back here.” He didn’t want a war with yet another group, but just to be left alone.

“…resisted complying with lawful authority and failed to submit his forces to inspection and training by the Commander of the State Guard as required under the Unorganized Militia Act…”

Hedge’s men had seen their fair share of battles both with the county to their east as well as with the raiders who seemed to come from all directions. During the first year the marauders came by four-wheeled vehicles, then motorcycles, and then horseback. Every so often a former federal or state military unit would pass through in armored humvees and try to take what they pleased. They had successfully fended off attacks from all of them. His men were as seasoned veterans as any of those who had served in the old republic’s Global War on Terror. Some of his best advisors were veterans from the Middle Eastern front.

Tom noticed the shoulder patches on the uniforms of the State Guard soldiers around him. The spot used in the past for the US Flag was now occupied by the old State flag. Below that flag many of them had combat patches representing now defunct federal units that had seen past combat overseas. The unit patches on the other sleeve were mostly from the old State’s National Guard, mixed with county and city seals. Tom saw one patch representing the county east of his own and noticed its wearer was bearing arms and not a zip-tie.

The new State Guard had used a formidable array of men and equipment yesterday. Hedge’s handful of tanks and APCs were completely taken out during the first minute of the battle by an equal number of A-10s and Apaches. Despite his foxholes, trenches and pillboxes around the old university campus that served as their base of operations, Tom’s 300 men were quickly overwhelmed by 3000 men.

“…Tom Hedge, I said these are the charges before you. How do you plead?”

Tom snapped back to the present. He looked up at the panel of men who would be his judges and mustered the best response he could think of at the moment. The response was one heard frequently on TV back in the old days from the busy streets of Brussels to the dusty bazaars of Baghdad.

Tom looked the judge straight in the eyes and replied “I don’t recognize this court.”

* * *

Take the population of whatever state you’re living in right now and lop a zero off the end. Do the same for your county and all its towns and cities. Take all the cities within 300 miles of road travel and do the same thing. Include cities across state boundaries and international borders. There’s still a lot of people left, isn’t there?

Despite any differences in style of government, predominant language or religion, these are your economic neighbors. They will always share your regional climate and probably the same food distribution network and energy resources.

This smaller number of people would still have a lot of needs, wants, and desires. If they were organized into the same job categories as once existed in Medieval England, there would still be hundreds of different occupations. There was far more in the village of yore than the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker. (Hurry get in line before the last job left is “Gong Farmer”). Step back even further in time into some remote hamlet in the Dark Ages and there were more employment opportunities available than peasant farmer, skilled mason, literate monk, bored brigand, or rabid raider.

Anyone who has worked with a group of 30 or more people on a daily basis understands the most theoretically simple of systems will get complicated. Each person may have a different role, but they’re all connected in some way. This entire group relies on outside connections as well. The last time life was “simple” for this size of group was sometime prior to the Neolithic period.

Back then there wasn’t as much specialization among group members and very little separation between work, family, and leisure life. But, there were not a lot of different goods and services available either. For example, the sporting goods stores were rather limited to whatever bows and spears could be locally produced. However, the purchaser did get a lifetime parts and labor warranty if the weapon was broken during a hunt –as long as the owner wasn’t eaten first.

As humans we’ve developed our systems to have a more satisfying life in this world. Things seem to run well for a while. At some point they always become unbalanced –either through conflict with our neighbors or with the natural environment itself— and a wheel eventually comes off. Being creatures of the wheel we return to the wreckage, tinker with it, get it running, and either run out of fuel or flip over into another wreck.

The last cultures that had no memory of the physical wheel were almost completely destroyed by the expansionist empires that have led to our modern global civilization. But, even these peoples had social stratification, warfare, and other ills that forced them into painful times of change. If we look back far enough, we find they too, had their ebbs and flows of power, growth and contraction.

There might be a future time in this country where illiterate people in loincloths run around the hills hunting deer with Trijicon-ACOG-topped M4s, but somehow I seriously doubt that would last long. Unlimited caches of ammo and gun-barfing floating stone heads of Zardoz aside, mankind always finds a period of peace and looks for something more in his life. During that time, people will gather together in places of learning. Knowledge and spiritual life become a focus again.

Look at history and take note of the Renaissance that followed centuries of warfare in Europe. Not long after America’s worst carnage ended in 1865, colleges were founded in war-torn Appalachia. During the last century the Balkan states were knocked out three times only to pick up the pieces each time and re-open for business. It doesn’t take much effort to find examples from times and places across the world.

My purpose with the introduction to this essay was to use an individual brush-stroke to help with painting the big picture for a wide audience. I think it’s interesting to note that the readers will range from scholars dealing in statistics to survivalists dealing SKSs. I will read their postings and articles on the same websites later. We all discuss the cycles of growth and collapse. Our thoughts will illuminate as text from the latest laptops to donated monitors in public libraries. Knowledge has been exchanged.

This electronic method will not always be available, but there will still be oral tradition. We will have our story-tellers and teachers. There will be memory. No matter what happens in the future someone will want to formalize all that collective memory into symbols. Knowledge will grow from these tiny seeds of words. To sustain it will require special roles and tools all over again. It’s in our nature as man to do this.

I may have made a crack earlier about Gong Farmers, but I know they have an extremely important job in every village. When I was among a group of officers in Iraq we discussed the various jobs and duties of all the people who kept our bases running. Granted they all had a unique function which would be missed if absent, but we wanted to consider which would have the fastest detrimental effect felt from the top all the way to the bottom if it disappeared. It didn’t take us long to agree that the most important occupation was not the commanding colonel or general, but the handful of guys who emptied our port-a-johns.

I’ll end this by asking the question about the scenario I constructed at the beginning. How would things be different for Tom Hedge if he had considered how the excrement settled after the SHTF?

END

Copyright © 2008

charlesoakwood

  • Guest
Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2011, 08:40:33 PM »

America: A Nation of Experts in Relativism

   Skilled in the arts of war....         
                                                                         
                                                                         
[blockquote]
Quote
There were some times in our history when Americans questioned everything. Questions are good –especially when the answers are actually used. But, on the flip-side there were many more times when the majority of Americans seemed to acquiesce through silent consent. On the surface, American complacency can often be explained by their industrial-scale Pavlovian conditioning to hedonistic comfort combined with a certain amount of their own willful ignorance. Of course, master and slave alike are served by this illusion while the environment they inhabit is still mutually beneficial to them both.

There is a significant measure of responsibility which I can assign to the administrators and purveyors of the system, but I can’t excuse the vast majority of my fellow citizens for their collective role in the poor condition of our country. We can’t measure the degrees of separation between perpetrators, victims, and bystanders because through action or omission at some point along the way, all are culpable.

Although the ultimate truth always seemed elusive, what we can’t agree on anymore is the need to even search for it. As a result we have no common ground as countrymen. The problem is aggravated when common sense is debased to the point of appearing irrelevant in the course of public debate. Justice also loses its footing when the truth is bartered away at the first opportune moment lest its holder be left with any inconvenient liabilities. This epitomizes relativism in America as we know it today. It becomes delusional relativism when its practitioners can frequently change positions without feeling the slightest hint of moral qualm because they can no longer retain any memory of what they once believed.
5 Comments
[/blockquote]               

Where did this guy come from?
   
If you like this check out his take on the selling of agricultural land in Australia and the USA.



Online John Florida

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 7180
  • IT'S MY FONT AND I'LL USE IT IF I WANT TO!!
Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2011, 09:24:10 PM »
We need to put a sticky on this,there is just a lot of info here to take in!! But a very interesting discussion to be had here when ever we can all be logged on. Maybe IDP Trap or Pan can try to set it up!!

 Charles report me to the Mods so we know they got it. I tried to report myself but the system won't let me.
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Offline rickl

  • Established Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1493
Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2011, 10:35:28 PM »
Fascinating.  I read all the comments in the first link.  That Gardenserf blog is also interesting.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
~ Ann Barnhardt

Online Pandora

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 15981
  • I iz also makin a list. U on it pal.
Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2011, 12:17:38 PM »
We need to put a sticky on this,there is just a lot of info here to take in!! But a very interesting discussion to be had here when ever we can all be logged on. Maybe IDP Trap or Pan can try to set it up!!

 Charles report me to the Mods so we know they got it. I tried to report myself but the system won't let me.

Unless you've done so already, no need; I gotcha pin right here.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Online Alphabet Soup

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4589
  • Hier standt ich. Ich kann nicht anders
Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2011, 12:38:19 PM »
And a very valuable discussion if they can keep their egos in check. In my personal quest for preparation tips and info I visit a great many sites. At many of them I keep seeing the "gray-man" (or alternatively “grey men”) attitude tossed off with mucho macho bravado. While I understand the need to make appropriate choices based on sitrep, the ones who would deliberately set themselves off (or worse - against) their neighbors seem the most foolish. I know it isn't scientific by any stretch, but every examination of the gray-man illustrates that it doesn't work out too good in the end.

Quote
Tribes survive. Individuals become slaves or stew.

The “go it alone” individualist will be swallowed up by bad people who recognize the value of tribe. They will have pooled resources and superior manpower, as well as a command and control structure, based on…well, something. - Arctic Patriot

Facts are, we need family, friends, and neighbors. The ironic thing is that our societal inability to cope with, to deal with, and to tolerate one another is what will bring the downfall, and that in its aftermath will require its resurrection and resumption.

Unless you want to live like a caveman...

For a very short time...

Online Pandora

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 15981
  • I iz also makin a list. U on it pal.
Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2011, 01:14:08 PM »
Ironically, Gunsmith and I were discussing your point, Soup, just this morning.  Even when belonging to a church (which we don't) a sense of "community", despite the lefties touting the existence of it, is hard to find for people like us, iow - tribeless.  Once upon a time, that was supplied by family, I suppose; now, it's like-minds and as far as I know, there are no extremely compatible like-minds in our immediate vicinity.  That may come when it's "break glass" time, but the advice is to form up previously.

What I'll not put up with is a self-appointed expert ordering folks around for the sake of "being in charge with superior wisdom and skillz".  He/she is the one I'll shoot first.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline rickl

  • Established Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1493
Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2011, 01:32:01 PM »
I kind of saw myself in the "gray man" descriptions, but I have no bravado about it.  It's more a "keep-my-head-down-and-hope-nobody-notices-me" sort of thing.

That's not the same as the rugged individualist who thinks he's Grizzly Adams or something.

I don't know anybody around here, and I'm a poor judge of character in any event.  (Meaning that I have a history of trusting people I shouldn't, and distrusting people I maybe should.)  So I'm just preparing to hunker down here at home and hope for the best.  If that doesn't work out, then hopefully I can at least take out some of the zombies before they get to me.

The hypothetical scenario seemed to be a Bad Thing that happened suddenly, like a nuclear attack or EMP, that caused an abrupt collapse of civilization.  Living in a peaceful suburban neighborhood as I do, I have a hard time envisioning a situation where I'd need to join a guerilla band.  I'd like to see a scenario that involves a gradual decay of civilization, which is more along the lines of what I'm expecting.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
~ Ann Barnhardt

Offline rickl

  • Established Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1493
Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2011, 01:39:52 PM »
What I'll not put up with is a self-appointed expert ordering folks around for the sake of "being in charge with superior wisdom and skillz".

That's pretty much what we have now.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
~ Ann Barnhardt

Online Pandora

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 15981
  • I iz also makin a list. U on it pal.
Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2011, 01:50:26 PM »
What I'll not put up with is a self-appointed expert ordering folks around for the sake of "being in charge with superior wisdom and skillz".

That's pretty much what we have now.

Yep.  And as it's currently insufferable as hell, I see no reason to put up with such if survival is optional.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Online IronDioPriest

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10276
  • I refuse to accept my civil servants as my rulers
Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2011, 02:41:53 PM »
Anyone see the zombie flick "28 Days Later"? Aside from the zombies, it was a study in what happens when SHTF and a small band of men who are used to military order try to apply that order to a crumbling situation when all up-line authority has been removed. The portrayal was no pretty.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Online John Florida

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 7180
  • IT'S MY FONT AND I'LL USE IT IF I WANT TO!!
Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2011, 02:52:40 PM »
There's a new series out called Falling Skies  which is a sort of survival after an alien attack kind of thing but I did see it lat night for the first time and it did make interesting points on survival then no comand and control exists.
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Online John Florida

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 7180
  • IT'S MY FONT AND I'LL USE IT IF I WANT TO!!
Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2011, 02:55:34 PM »
For me the thing that I was thinking about is that WE are a comunity of people that are like minded and I would like to play a game where we try to figure out who and where would be the best place to be if we had to depend on no one else but us.

 As in who has the best set up where is it what would it take to get all of us there and with who. What each has to contribute and so on.
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Online Alphabet Soup

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4589
  • Hier standt ich. Ich kann nicht anders
Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2011, 02:56:20 PM »
I kind of saw myself in the "gray man" descriptions, but I have no bravado about it.  It's more a "keep-my-head-down-and-hope-nobody-notices-me" sort of thing.

That's not the same as the rugged individualist who thinks he's Grizzly Adams or something.

I don't know anybody around here, and I'm a poor judge of character in any event.  (Meaning that I have a history of trusting people I shouldn't, and distrusting people I maybe should.)  So I'm just preparing to hunker down here at home and hope for the best.  If that doesn't work out, then hopefully I can at least take out some of the zombies before they get to me.

The hypothetical scenario seemed to be a Bad Thing that happened suddenly, like a nuclear attack or EMP, that caused an abrupt collapse of civilization.  Living in a peaceful suburban neighborhood as I do, I have a hard time envisioning a situation where I'd need to join a guerilla band.  I'd like to see a scenario that involves a gradual decay of civilization, which is more along the lines of what I'm expecting.

I was going to excerpt part of your post but it's all so good I'm replying to the whole thing ;-)

In my ruminations about our uncertain future I have come to a couple of preliminary conclusions (notice how I cover my azz?!).

1. I am waaay more prepared than any of my neighbors.
2. My mindset is profoundly different than any of my neighbors (or even my family). I have already accepted not only the inevitability of SHTF, but that I won't be a "survivor" (as defined by long-term duration or quality of life).
3. My neighbors are mostly decent people but virtually all sheep.
4. I ain't no Griz.
5. Speaking of judge of character - I'm a great one, just ask any of my ex-wives.

My Pa taught me,  "Plan for the worst; hope for the best" It isn't inviting calamity to consider every scenario - no matter how extreme. Sometimes out of even the most absurd notions comes inspiration and invention. Folks joke about "Zombieland" but there are common-sense cautions to be had even there.

As much as we would all like things to go on undisturbed and unmolested, I think that it is irresponsible to ignore the potential for disaster that confronts us. If things are going to go sideways I would prefer that our crash is as a gentle glide to earth, but need to plan for conditions more like auguring in.

The key to survival and a chance at any kind of decent life after a cataclysm is to stay flexible and innovative. Do your homework now so you don't waste priceless time and resources "reinventing the wheel". Learn to read your environment so that you can make critical decisions with a degree of certainty of outcome. One of the first things you do when you go camping (my favorite survival metaphor) is to survey for a campsite. As you become experienced and adept you quickly learn what is attractive - and what to avoid. That's why most of the responses (so far) have prominently featured assessments and sitrep as first things first.

Remember Rumsfeld's words: "You go to war with the army you have---not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time". Right now we have a certain "luxury" of time to plan and prepare for a wide variety of scenarios. I'm still working on what I am going to do with me neighbors... ::evilbat::

Online Pandora

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 15981
  • I iz also makin a list. U on it pal.
Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2011, 02:58:49 PM »
Anyone see the zombie flick "28 Days Later"? Aside from the zombies, it was a study in what happens when SHTF and a small band of men who are used to military order try to apply that order to a crumbling situation when all up-line authority has been removed. The portrayal was no pretty.

Seen it.  You're right; not pretty.

Read several disaster-scenario novels from different perspectives since then and John Ringo of "The Last Centurion" seems to have the best handle on who survives -- it IS a matter of community as far as "who is like us" and that doesn't apply to anything other than like-minds ~ not race, creed or religion.  Simply, we're in this together, are we going to pull together through a sense of what's at stake and what do I have to offer to achieve that OR NOT.

Ringo posits that "hispanic" men were loath to take direction from women and Black women, generally, were a problem for everybody.  Show up with your pants a-hangin' and a 'tude and you were marked as trouble.  Present with an appearance of willing to fall in with a non-elitist hierarchy designed for group-survival and you'll find a place regardless of skin color or ethnicity.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Online Alphabet Soup

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4589
  • Hier standt ich. Ich kann nicht anders
Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2011, 03:29:04 PM »
Anyone see the zombie flick "28 Days Later"? Aside from the zombies, it was a study in what happens when SHTF and a small band of men who are used to military order try to apply that order to a crumbling situation when all up-line authority has been removed. The portrayal was no pretty.

Yep - I've seem them all. My favorite is "Panic in Year Zero" with Ray Milland. I saw it years ago and it has captured (and held) my imagination ever since. A cheezy look at a post-nuclear catastrophe was done in 1967 with "In_The_Year_2889". Again, the part that got my attention wasn't so much the irradiated mutants but the way the father character went about preparations to live post-apocalypse.

I watched "The Postman" again the other night. Plenty of American Cheese right there  ;) I also caught "A Boy and His Dog" which featured plenty of cheese but wasn't nearly as depressing as "Threads" (1984) or (God forbid) "The Road".

Online Alphabet Soup

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4589
  • Hier standt ich. Ich kann nicht anders
Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2011, 03:45:18 PM »
Anyone see the zombie flick "28 Days Later"? Aside from the zombies, it was a study in what happens when SHTF and a small band of men who are used to military order try to apply that order to a crumbling situation when all up-line authority has been removed. The portrayal was no pretty.

Seen it.  You're right; not pretty.

Read several disaster-scenario novels from different perspectives since then and John Ringo of "The Last Centurion" seems to have the best handle on who survives -- it IS a matter of community as far as "who is like us" and that doesn't apply to anything other than like-minds ~ not race, creed or religion.  Simply, we're in this together, are we going to pull together through a sense of what's at stake and what do I have to offer to achieve that OR NOT.

Ringo posits that "hispanic" men were loath to take direction from women and Black women, generally, were a problem for everybody.  Show up with your pants a-hangin' and a 'tude and you were marked as trouble.  Present with an appearance of willing to fall in with a non-elitist hierarchy designed for group-survival and you'll find a place regardless of skin color or ethnicity.

There were several excellent cinematic examinations of race, sex, and post-apocalypse survival in the fifties and sixties.

The first was "Five" (1951) - a movie that explored the human-dynamic of what we now refer to as Post-traumatic stress disorder (or PTSD).

The next was "The World The Flesh And The Devil" - 1959 starring Harry Belafonte before he outed himself as a disgusting commie bass-turd. A similar premise but one that played much more heavily on prejudice.

The other was "The Last Woman On Earth (1960) which was straight-up "Two is company - three is a crowd".

Imagine that - we've been anticipating TEOTWAWKI for a long time!

Online John Florida

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 7180
  • IT'S MY FONT AND I'LL USE IT IF I WANT TO!!
Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2011, 05:35:10 PM »
This whole conversation needs to be turned over to what we as a comunity need to do together to ensure our as in all of us here survive. Even if it means leaving our home to meet at a predetermined place. IE if one of us has say 20 acres to use as a base for survival.

   One person can't work and defend that kind on space. But a group of like minded people can and do it well even if it comes to taking over neighboring land and expand enough to be able to hold it together.Then the trick become where is the base how do we get ther and what needs to be brought in on the way there.

 Did I explain it right??
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 40538
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2011, 07:07:27 AM »
I think I am identifying with 'Soup here, the "plan for the worst, hope for the best" mindset has been my mantra for quite some time.  Kinda goes along with assessing every place you go for possible SHTF scenarios and trying to identify threats/lines of retreat etc.  It's not always fun to do and sometimes it kicks in automatically if something seemingly innocent looks the slightest bit off.

Anyway, enough rambling, the main problems most people confront is first and foremost discussing this stuff with others.  Sometimes we have a hard time discussing this with immediate family members, but that is where it must start.  From there you have to branch out and start feeling out neighbors.  Once you figure out what their politics might be and their attitudes about the direction of the country you'll know if they are approachable or not on TEOTWAWKI.  Once you've expanded your second tier contacts the question is how to link cells without drawing the attention of authorities who may want to keep an eye on you.  I am still trying to think about this last one, and using SW radios and simple codes seems the most practical thusfar.

Having said that I have to admit my clan is only on step 1 1/2.  We have some second tier people identified and soon some will be approached to close the deal.  Problem is, if the fit hits the shan too fast where getting out of Dodge is hampered/impossible, most of our preparations could be toast.  Getting a good and early bead on things is going to be critical.  Last thing people with an egress plan want is to get log-jammed on roads clogged with crazed people without a clue as to where they are going trampling each other.  If "going it alone" or trapped I think it is just a matter of time before feral scum dispatches you and takes what booty they can scavenge off you.

Planning and logistics, it always comes down to planning and logistics.
Irrumabo!  GOP? - Nope. No more. They made their bed, now let them die in it.*
* © Libertas (H/T Glock32)