Author Topic: A discussion of priorities: prepping/generators/ham radio  (Read 3742 times)

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A discussion of priorities: prepping/generators/ham radio
« on: February 20, 2011, 01:57:01 PM »
A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 14, 2010, 7:50pm

In the case of some societal upheaval:

You've prepped and put aside for your own family and now you are faced with the sight of others around you who haven't done so, what do you do?

Do you share with other's children what you put aside for your own?

Do you feed your husband more than yourself because he needs his strength to get the hard work done, in the interest of survial of the wife AND kids?

Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 14, 2010, 8:12pm


A short term societal upheaval would look like the LA riots. A long term SU would continue from that point.
Who would restore order and how would they do it. While restoring order would they be able to identify you as an "orderly" and if so would it matter to their overall mission.

I think a "survival plan" would contemplate leaving the city for short and long term.
Where to go and what to take.
That's step one of my plan.

Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 14, 2010, 8:35pm

If you have family outside the house you need to take that into consideration.By family it would include friends.

I've been prepping for a long time a little at a time.I have weapons,ammo, food and water. Water is my week point but if I see trouble heading my way I live 5 minutes from a Sams warehouse.

Generator(10,000 kw) is the garage can store up to 80 gals. of fuel and not to forget fuel conditioner todays fuel goes bad too fast for long term storage without conditioner.I also have a clean 35 gal metal barrel for additional fuel. My friends near by are also well stocked or have the ability to load up real quick.

My family has the means to get to me and I have the room to make it work. Depending where the problems are is what decides who goes where.

We all have full size pick ups to get us and what we need around.We all have all the tools we need to take care of ourselves.

As time goes by I'll rethink it as I'm always doing.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by nolan on Apr 14, 2010, 8:36pm

Pan "Yes, nolan; I see what you mean about the kids. It'd be easier for you to watch them all slowly decline together, if it came to that."
Did I misread that?Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 14, 2010, 9:35pm

No, nolan, you didn't, but it wasn't meant cruelly. It's harsh, I know, but food for thought.

There's a school of religious thought that espouses one does the best one can and then prays for God to provide. I'm thinking that's probably right, depending on what one believes, so the question becomes: what, then, does God provide? A quick trip, a slow trip, to one's final reward, and that's just the way it goes?

Does one take care of one's own, because that's one's responsibility - ONE'S OWN - helping others when the help can be spared, but not at the expense of your own? Or shelter all that you can, depleting one's resources, in the end helping more but for less time?

These are pertinent questions; don't be mad, nolan.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 10:26:05 AM by Pandora »
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Re: A discussion of priorities
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2011, 01:58:08 PM »
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 14, 2010, 9:49pm


Apr 14, 2010, 9:35pm, Pandora wrote:
No, nolan, you didn't, but it wasn't meant cruelly. It's harsh, I know, but food for thought.

There's a school of religious thought that espouses one does the best one can and then prays for God to provide. I'm thinking that's probably right, depending on what one believes, so the question becomes: what, then, does God provide? A quick trip, a slow trip, to one's final reward, and that's just the way it goes?

Does one take care of one's own, because that's one's responsibility - ONE'S OWN - helping others when the help can be spared, but not at the expense of your own? Or shelter all that you can, depleting one's resources, in the end helping more but for less time?

These are pertinent questions; don't be mad, nolan.



Fair questions but my feelings are that I take care of those that can contribute. I don't need liabilities.

Grasshopper and the Ant comes to mind.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by nolan on Apr 14, 2010, 9:59pm

No, no, not mad. Not trying to pick a fight (I don't think you are/were either).
And yes, I considered the angles. You may recall how much thought I've given other stuff.
And no, no single aspect of it will be easier than any other. NO decision will ever be an easy one under those circumstances.
I do have a plan for the neighborhood, they just don't know it yet!
Roughly, join together (safety in numbers may be the single most important maxim), pool resources (socialism is a necessity at times like that) and start hitting the grocery and hardware stores. I believe there'll be firearms around before too long. Enough to make a difference.
But membership would be limited to those who will row away from the rocks, or at least have something to offer. I don't think I'll have much patience for ostriches.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 14, 2010, 10:17pm


Look at the videos from LA, family will be the only thing you have.

It will be an ultimate stress situation and in order to survive things must go according to your plan. You will be a minority. As far as, other than family: If you have been in a situation such as canoeing down a rapid, said person w/o a life jacket and the boat spills, you may be able to predict how that person will react (discounting the variables of children and spouses).

This subject is societal upheaval, look at the videos from the LA riots and make plans to leave the city. If you are the only one on the block with water and food you are no longer a human you are "the warehouse".

Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by alphabetsoup on Apr 14, 2010, 10:30pm

There are days when I wonder if I truly want to be a survivor, but when the rubber meets the bricks I know how I'm wired.

I had made plans for my little family and they carry forward, but without quite the same purpose now. Before I had to concern myself about both defense as well as offense and now I can concentrate on the offense.

I have enough supplies to last a year. I've assembled a field surgical kit and bought supplemental books on triage and disaster first aid. My place is set up to accommodate 8-10 people for an extended period in decent comfort.

Contingency plans for the impending collapse have been roughed out and my brothers and I go over them, refining them constantly.

I anticipate that there is going to be considerable....unrest....and I am poised to respond appropriately. The gear is oiled, primed, and ready.

Let the games begin...
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

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Re: A discussion of priorities
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2011, 02:00:06 PM »
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by irondiopriest on Apr 14, 2010, 11:32pm

I urge everyone to READ THIS. It's a bit long, but it is a vital, first-hand observation of what one Argentinian experienced when his society and economy broke down.

A few snippets to whet your appetites...


    "Someone once asked me how did those that live in the country fare. If they were better off than city dwellers. As always there are no simple answers. Wish I could say country good, city bad, but I can’t, because if I have to be completely honest, and I intend to be so, there are some issues that have to be analyzed, especially security...."

    "Those that live in cities, well they have to manage as they can. Since food prices went up about 200%-300%. People would cut expenses wherever they could so they could buy food. Some ate whatever they could; they hunted birds or ate street dogs and cats, others starved. When it comes to food, cities suck in a crisis. It is usually the lack of food or the impossibility to acquire it that starts the rioting and looting when TSHTF...."

    "When it comes to security things get even more complicated. Forget about shooting those that mean you harm from 300 yards away with your MBR. Leave that notion to armchair commandos and 12 year old kids that pretend to be grown ups on the internet.

    Some facts:

    1) Those that want to harm you/steal from you don’t come with a pirate flag waving over their heads.

    2) Neither do they start shooting at you 200 yards away.

    3) They won’t come riding loud bikes or dressed with their orange, convict just escaped from prison jump suits, so that you can identify them the better. Nor do they all wear chains around their necks and leather jackets. If I had a dollar for each time a person that got robbed told me “They looked like NORMAL people, dressed better than we are”, honestly, I would have enough money for a nice gun. There are exceptions, but don’t expect them to dress like in the movies.

    4) A man with a wife and two or three kids can’t set up a watch. I don’t care if you are SEAL, SWAT or John Freaking Rambo, no 6th sense is going to tell you that there is a guy pointing a gun at your back when you are trying to fix the water pump that just broke, or carrying a big heavy bag of dried beans you bought that morning...."

    "So, where to go? The concrete jungle is dangerous and so is living away from it all, on your own. The solution is to stay away from the cities but in groups, either by living in a small town-community or sub division, or if you have friends or family that think as you do, form your own small community. Some may think that having neighbors within “shouting” distance means loosing your privacy and freedom, but it’s a price that you have to pay if you want to have someone to help you if you ever need it. To those that believe that they will never need help from anyone because they will always have their rifle at hand, checking the horizon with their scope every five minutes and a first aid kit on their back packs at all times…. Grow up...."



Much, much, much more at the link...Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by nolan on Apr 15, 2010, 9:03am

I wish to hell I had neighbors like you, Soup. Out-fittting for a year isn't in the budget, the CFO is only hafl-way on board and she needs to accomplish what she needs to do. Keeping this roof over our heads and the kids fed, etc. She indulges me to no small degree, but only so far. It's a slight bone of contention.
CO, your point about being the 'warehouse' is valid, and I don't intend to let myself be swamped. I'll be quick on the trigger as the situation warrants, neighbor's kids be damned. Uf I can sign them up to my way, then great.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 15, 2010, 9:47am


Apr 15, 2010, 9:03am, nolan wrote:
I wish to hell I had neighbors like you, Soup. Out-fittting for a year isn't in the budget, the CFO is only hafl-way on board and she needs to accomplish what she needs to do. Keeping this roof over our heads and the kids fed, etc. She indulges me to no small degree, but only so far. It's a slight bone of contention.
CO, your point about being the 'warehouse' is valid, and I don't intend to let myself be swamped. I'll be quick on the trigger as the situation warrants, neighbor's kids be damned. Uf I can sign them up to my way, then great.



Nolan you don't have to invest your lungs all at once. I started with dry goods Pasta(of course)Rice,Beans of all types canned Tomatoes I have 4 ases of just those.

Rotate the goods so you always update and it doesn't go out of date. I just bought Rice on sale for 1 dollar I got 3 pounds of rice so I go 5 dollars worth it starts a dollar at a time and it takes time.

Watch the papers sale fliers are your friend. For meats I just bought boneless skinless chicken breasts for 1.69 a pound I buy when I don't need so when I do it's price that drives me.I went big on the chicken I spent 33 dollars for 20 pounds of chicken.

Veggies because I don't like canned(personal thing) I buy the few that I will eat frozen so I'm limited to Peas and corn.

Back to the neighbor/friend thing There are three of us here that compliment each other.Bob has hand guns he owns a .32,.357 Mag.and a .45 acp. He also has a back up generators in case mine craps out and he also has the ability to store over 100 gals of fuel plus food stores not as big as mine but he has a lot to bring to the party(not to mention he was Special Forces in Nam) on the other side I have George with a 500 Gal propane tank and a load of food to add to the party He's in his 70s and a world of mechanical knowledge to keep us going.

He also has a 17 kw generator and can store another 100 plus gals.of fuel and a tough old bird.

If we all moved into one house at a time and we all have enough room for the others we could last on Generators for a hell of a long time and still be able to go out and buy what we could and extend the time as we need but we have a big leg up on the rest of the idiots we live around.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

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Re: A discussion of priorities
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2011, 02:01:35 PM »
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 15, 2010, 11:19am


-->"Anyway, a city that goes without gas and light for more than two weeks is a death trap, get out of there before it’s too late."<--Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by libertasinfinitio on Apr 15, 2010, 11:51am

I and my brother initiated an emergency plan a couple years ago. We identified the stuff we already have on our own (guns, ammo, generators etc) and stuff we needed to get (food, water & first aid supplies etc). By requiring monthly contributions for family members who wish to participate we are able to buy in bulk that which we need. We buy food we can store for long periods, stuff like that. Pretty much all set, just need to pick up some water filtration units and a few other items. We have a bug-out plan to flee the cities in case TSHTF and have a lake home out in the sticks to go to. We have some like-minded compatriots up there I think we can rely on when the sh*t starts, but with any plan it all depends how much lead time you have and if you can safely get to where you're going! But ya gotta start somewhere and make sure everyone knows what the plan is and how to do it given different circumstances that arise. In the end you have to trust in your preparations and in the good graces of the Almighty to carry you through!Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by alphabetsoup on Apr 15, 2010, 12:00pm


Apr 15, 2010, 11:00am, Pandora wrote:
Jeez, IDP; body armor? That's how bad it is there.

What he describes sounds to me like life here to an extent, in the inner-city, right now, save the food shortages.


Yep, body armor.

I live in the shadow of one of the most leftist cities in America. Due to my work I am acquainted with the limitations and general attitude of our local law enforcement, city & county governance, and the general infrastructure. My takeaway is that they are almost totally unprepared for civil unrest and will likely be completely overrun within three days. I expect a human wave of misery to emanate outwards from the epicenter of stupidity and have no desire to interact - especially on their terms.

My contingency plans center around drawing my folks in at the outset of hostilities, withdrawing from the community as much as possible, and maintaining a fortress profile.

I anticipate two main scenarios;

1. Governmental interference.

As things go bad the inclination to present a heavy-handed and ruthless presence on the part of local authorities is irresistible. My hope is to avoid them like the plague because nothing good can come from such an exchange.

I expect them to try to disarm us and I will not comply.

2. Zombie hordes.

I have identified the ingress & egress, the choke-points, and the vantage points for a 5-mile perimeter. When TSHTF there will be tens of thousands who will quickly exhaust their meager resources, and the equally meager resources provided by (or not) the government. Hungry, angry, unbound by allegiance to reason or rule of law, they will begin fanning out in search of whatever.

I have some funny notions about stuff, and one of them is "What's mine is mine". If I choose to share it it's because I consciously chose, not because I was compelled to do so.

So defense - have any of you ever explored an old fort? When I was a kid I got the chance to visit the Castillo De San Marcos in St Augustine Florida. What a cool place!

One of the things I learned was the layers of defense. There were advance fortifications where archers, pikemen, and swordsmen could take cover and repel advancing troops. If necessary, and at a certain point a signal would be given and the pikemen or archers would withdraw from those advanced fortifications to an inner wall to continue the fight. There were even more fortifications within that ring to use if needed.

My contingency plans are constructed similarly. I don't have a castle with heavy fortifications, but I do have a choke-point where I can restrict access and repel invaders. I have identified a progressive series of blinds and vantage points in the surrounding community where I can mount my fight. The idea is to take the fight out of my neighborhood if at all possible. If a fight is unavoidable, why sacrifice my sanctuary?

Ultimately the possibility exists where I am force to defend my immediate property. There isn't a whole lot that can be done to fortify a suburban household, but you'd be surprised at what can be done.

I've installed some "decorative" landscaping stones to protect the front entry. Now a SWAT team cannot simply drive through my front door (as was the case before). Some pretty bushes also provide incidental cover most of the year.

An alarm system alerts me when someone enters my driveway. A modestly priced security camera system allows me to check out the perimeter of my property and the outbuildings. There are no longer any blind spots surrounding the house - unless you disable the cameras in which case the standing order is to shoot anything that moves.

I installed a drop-bar for the front & back doors that trebles their strength. They can still be penetrated but with much effort and precious additional time - for me to prepare for an assault. Weapons are secreted (securely thank you!) in more than one location so that the possibility of being separated from my defensive capabilities are limited.

Still, it's a house not a fortress. Should an assault occur it means that the place is compromised and will ultimately be breached. I have identified two escape routes and am working on contingency plans to have vehicles stationed nearby for a fast getaway.

I'm still working out fallback plans for abandoning the family farm...

edit: altard proofed
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Re: A discussion of priorities
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2011, 02:02:30 PM »
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by libertasinfinitio on Apr 15, 2010, 12:16pm

Heh, 3 days? Sounds optimistic to me, but you know your area better so I'll defer to your judgement, but where I am (for work) it will be overrun in 3 hours. Hence my own big challenge is to GTFO of here in one piece. All I gotta say is I'm not waiting very long, even a hint of trouble and I'm scootin'!

As far as fortification goes, that's the next phase for my clan, sounds like I'm a little behind you, although I have some preliminary actions ready to implement and others that need to be worked out.

Some body armor isn't a bad idea.

ETA - If this is a long-term kinda deal, then the survivng pockets will have no other choice than to conduct trade via the time-honored barter system, be sure you have something worth trading, watch out for stray zombies, and don't go trusting people who haven't earned it!Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 15, 2010, 12:50pm


Apr 15, 2010, 10:57am, Pandora wrote:
What kind of fuel in 100 plus gals., JF?


Gas for generators. But we only have to run one at a time for refrigerrationa nd cook tops when needed and we can make hot water for showers. Don't forget one of the guys has 500 gals. of propane, Between us we can store over 300 gals. of gas.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 15, 2010, 12:56pm


--->"Heh, 3 days? Sounds optimistic to me, but you know your area better so I'll defer to your judgement, but where I am (for work) it will be overrun in 3 hours. Hence my own big challenge is to GTFO of here in one piece. All I gotta say is I'm not waiting very long, even a hint of trouble and I'm scootin'!"<---

Yes, the very first thing is to recognize that it is happening, if one waits until the answer is delivered to them it is too late. The masses will come to conclusion simultainiously. It will be spontainious. One must consider the exits. What is rush hour traffic like? Traffic will be worse when everybody gets the answer. The bigger the city the worse the problem. One must recognize the event is proximal. I allow myself 15 minutes.

If you do not recognize it 15 minutes before the event you will be in deepness.

Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by alphabetsoup on Apr 15, 2010, 1:08pm

All of the various SHTF scenarios share a common bond - breakdown in the social order - but otherwise diverge in terms of inception and scope. If they dropped a hydrogen bomb on my house the inception would be rather abrupt :o

Most scenarios are more along the Katrina - a natural calamity that interrupts the normal course of commerce. They can be as mild as a snowfall that makes the roads impassable for a few days to an earthquake that shatters everything and renders it all rubble.

I can't anticipate every alternative since they are too manifold to contemplate, but I can plan for typical contingencies - the sorts of things that my local environment holds as possible to probable scenarios.

Needless to say, we have had many conversations around the dinner table and campfire!

You bring up another excellent point when you mention escaping in one piece. Because my state is ruled by dhimmicrats (and has been for 22 years), the infrastructure is in poor condition, and overtaxed. As a result I have made a study of every pathway in & out of any area I tend to go. Since gridlock is an unfortunate fact of life I always know what options I have for getting where I need to go.

You probably know me - or know people like me. Some might (and have) called me paranoid, but I am the one who parks his vehicle with purpose, not just convenience. I'm the guy who chooses where he sits in a room so that nothing occurs without my knowing it. I'm also the guy who doesn't freak out when I encounter an accident scene.

I was the guy who sought out infant CPR when my child was born. I'm the guy who has carried the industrial first aid card for twenty years. I'm the sort who considers the possibilities instead of waiting and reacting.

I'm the good little boy scout.

I learned it from my papa. While others may read something like this and ponder why someone would be thinking so extremely, my papa taught me to consider the possibilities up front so that they wouldn't surprise me when they happen.

My boot camp was in the guise of camping trips. For us it was all play, but the lessons in self-sufficiency carried over into everything (well almost everything) in my life. I've learned the hard way that there are some things you just can't fix.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

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Re: A discussion of priorities
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2011, 02:09:59 PM »
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 15, 2010, 1:23pm


Apr 15, 2010, 12:50pm, johnflorida wrote:

Apr 15, 2010, 10:57am, Pandora wrote:
What kind of fuel in 100 plus gals., JF?


Gas for generators. But we only have to run one at a time for refrigerrationa nd cook tops when needed and we can make hot water for showers. Don't forget one of the guys has 500 gals. of propane, Between us we can store over 300 gals. of gas.


Okay, then; gasoline. What's it stored in at that quantity and, since gas can't be stored for too long, what's being done to prevent its degradation?

Propane - not worried about, much. Gasoline storage I'm worried about.

~~~~~~~~

Good on ya, Soup. Well, on everybody that's given this thought and preparation. I must say, though, everytime I begin feeling the slightest bit ... um... comfortable about our own preps, I read something like Soup's account and I get anxious all over again.

Like CO wrote: work, work, work.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 15, 2010, 1:39pm


Apr 15, 2010, 1:23pm, Pandora wrote:

Apr 15, 2010, 12:50pm, johnflorida wrote:


Gas for generators. But we only have to run one at a time for refrigeration nd cook tops when needed and we can make hot water for showers. Don't forget one of the guys has 500 gals. of propane, Between us we can store over 300 gals. of gas.


Okay, then; gasoline. What's it stored in at that quantity and, since gas can't be stored for too long, what's being done to prevent its degradation?

Propane - not worried about, much. Gasoline storage I'm worried about.

~~~~~~~~

Good on ya, Soup. Well, on everybody that's given this thought and preparation. I must say, though, every time I begin feeling the slightest bit ... um... comfortable about our own preps, I read something like Soup's account and I get anxious all over again.

Like CO wrote: work, work, work.

My truck holds 26 gals.My wifes car holds 16I have 5 five gal cans and I have a 35 gal metal barrel, My lawn tractor holds 3 and the Generator holds almost 5 for a total of 108 gals. I use fuel conditioner to make it last up to a year.It's no big deal.

Safety wise I'm not happy either but I use approved containers except for the Barrel.(because I can't find an approved one but it's new and clean. And I keep a couple of cases of Mobil one oil for the generator since it doesn't go bad and I don't know how long I would need it for.


Don't forget we picked up a lot of experience when we had 3 hurricanes in 14 months. Those were like dry runs for a much longer problem. We ended up feeding half the street for almost a week till the stores startd to restock and get generators of their own in. Now the stores all have big diesel Generators built in.

Gas stations had fuel but no power to get at it for almost a week. I burned threw 5 gals a day just for the generator and that was running it only when I needed to.

I had to keep everything frozen and had to cook no A/C but that will be fixed when I get a couple of window units just for the bed rooms.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

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Re: A discussion of priorities
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2011, 02:12:09 PM »
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by libertasinfinitio on Apr 15, 2010, 1:40pm

Yup. Vigilance in all things. Prepare for the worst as best you can, hope for the best.

Some people can deal with this, some only in an abstract conversation, I know some who simply cannot contemplate even mild breakdown scenarios and have resolved to be an ostrich.

This kinda stuff isn't particularly fun to talk about, but as a family we are doing it because it is necessary.

It just seems like it is more needed now that it has ever been in a long time in our nation and I think that is the reason for the sense of anxiousness...it's justified.

The point on avenues of escape is important. Luckily for me I have been around a while and I know a lot of roads, some even not paved! And commuting as I have over longer distances on average than my urban counterparts, I am fond of exercising my freedom of movement to get around jams and as such stay up on different routes and what those neighborhoods look like.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 15, 2010, 1:57pm

Auto-Parts-Shop has 12vDC universal fuel pump. Pump -10?gal per minute, rig w/cigarette lighter adapter and neoprene fuel line. Enables transfer of fuel.


If your house uses propane, get a propane genset, all fuel problems will be solved. Storage and capacity are no longer problems.
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by alphabetsoup on Apr 15, 2010, 2:17pm


Apr 15, 2010, 1:57pm, charlesoakwood wrote:
Auto-Parts-Shop has 12vDC universal fuel pump. Pump -10?gal per minute, rig w/cigarette lighter adapter and neoprene fuel line. Enables transfer of fuel.


If your house uses propane, get a propane genset, all fuel problems will be solved. Storage and capacity are no longer problems.


Good idea. I check one out but didn't think it stout enough to last so I prowled the industrial auctions until I was able to score a hand-crank transfer pump.

My plan is to leave the gasoline where it belongs - at the gas station. When the power is out and no one is able to exhaust the supply it will be available for extraction - by me.

And the propane idea is good as well. I purposely purchased in a neighborhood on the natural gas grid. My heat, hot water, and cooking is gas. But even the grid can be interrupted so I leased a 500gal tank like John is talking about. Its main intention is for the generator but can be pressed into service for other needs.

The one remaining essential is a well. I've been trying to work the angles to put in a well. This is easier said than done because my property borders a protected wetland and they don't want to issue a permit.

By hook or by crook... Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 15, 2010, 2:18pm

>>> If your house uses propane, get a propane genset, all fuel problems will be solved. Storage and capacity are no longer problems. <<<

Got that - whole-house generator and about 1700 gals. of propane, and even nursing it, it's only going to last so long. We've several smaller tanks-full for the bbq and a "tree" so more than one item can work off one tank if needs -be.

The trucks and the chainsaw need gasoline, so working on some further storage needs doing.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 15, 2010, 2:52pm

Farmer Brown used this set up for a hundred years:

[image]

Military used it, service cos used it, and any body else that needed higher capacity. Today, it's probably verwy dangerous.

This image shows a bung hole in the side also.
Never seen a 55 gal drum with bung holes in the side and the top.
The lid or top should have two bung holes, a large one for the pump and a small one for the vent.

You don't need a new one if it was used for oil, just rinse it out and you are good to go.


Tractor Supply or a rural Ace will probably have the pump and good info including where to get good drums.
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Re: A discussion of priorities
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2011, 02:13:07 PM »
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by alphabetsoup on Apr 15, 2010, 3:44pm

That's it Charles! That's what I bought.

I used a pipe threader on the end of the suction tube so that I could screw on extensions for deeper tanks. It works like a champ.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 15, 2010, 4:08pm

Great! Thanks to you both. What else ya got up your sleeves?

Anybody else here besides me know how to pressure can?Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 15, 2010, 4:35pm

Watch those propane Generators the fuel use is high and the power output is less than on gas. If you look you can still buy dual and tri fuel Generators(Natural gas Propane and gasoline)

I find a great source for a lot of this stuff at NORTHERN TOOL.

http://www.northerntool.com/

They have pumps and generators and so on so you have time to look then over and study what you need.

In doing research for myself I learned a lot so if you have any questions just let me know. You only need so much don't go nuts spending money.


But you also can buy them used I see generators on craigs list down here all the time. They are from the hurricanes and people are getting rid of them. Bad for them good for you. just be carefull.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 15, 2010, 4:57pm

We don't have natural gas service here, so propane is it. We did the research and came up with the best option for us. YMMV, of course.

It's hooked up to the house service, with a cut-off, so it powers itself on/off in response to the grid power.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 15, 2010, 5:49pm

NorthernTools is a good source for products and their online catalogue is a good source of info about the product, their clerks are not. Also, read your warranty and be knowledgeable about what you are buying, they can be difficult with returns.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 15, 2010, 5:52pm


Apr 15, 2010, 4:57pm, Pandora wrote:
We don't have natural gas service here, so propane is it. We did the research and came up with the best option for us. YMMV, of course.

It's hooked up to the house service, with a cut-off, so it powers itself on/off in response to the grid power.


That's a good short term thing but to make the fuel last you have to only run it then you want to.

I planed it out during the hurricane outages to only run it for 5 to 6 hours a day. That was enough time to keep the fridge cold and make hot water and coffee in the morning. Once we made coffee we shut it down so we could watch T.V. and charge the fridge for the night,

I had done a whole lot of cooking before the storm and froze it so all we had to do was defrost heat and eat. I had 2 big trays of baked Ziti that were frozen and then cut to portions for a meal and wrapped and bagged for the freezer not to mention all the meat I had bought. I love my steaks.

I never having been through one treated it like the end of the world was coming. And for the first few days it was a real pain in the ass.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 15, 2010, 5:54pm

--->"Anybody else here besides me know how to pressure can?"<---



Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 15, 2010, 6:07pm

>>> That's a good short term thing but to make the fuel last you have to only run it then you want to. <<<

Did something I wrote make you believe I didn't know that already? ;D

This is not a portable generator.

Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 15, 2010, 6:09pm


Apr 15, 2010, 5:54pm, charlesoakwood wrote:
--->"Anybody else here besides me know how to pressure can?"<---

What? No capisce?

How about "use a pressure canner"?
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Re: A discussion of priorities
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2011, 02:14:46 PM »
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 15, 2010, 7:21pm


Apr 15, 2010, 6:38pm, johnflorida wrote:

Apr 15, 2010, 6:07pm, Pandora wrote:
>>> That's a good short term thing but to make the fuel last you have to only run it then you want to. <<<

Did something I wrote make you believe I didn't know that already? ;D

This is not a portable generator.



Some times I like to hear myself talk!But if you're out and the power goes out it kicks on and runs till you get back, not always a good thing.

How big is it?


It is a good thing in normal times (such as they are today) provided we aren't gone too long, which we usually aren't; freezer, etc.

After 1996's Hurricane Fran, when we were out of power for four days, and whatever-year-it-was after that when we were out of power for two days (Christmas Eve and Christmas) due to an ice-storm, and the periodic outages during perfectly windless, sunny days (I kid you not), Gunsmith got sick of having to hook up to the two portables (5K watts each) the well-pump, the water heater, the house heat and run an extension cord in through the dryer vent so I could keep the refrigerator/freezer cold and some of the lights on, not to mention the stove (which was all electric until we swapped it out for a dual-fuel), or the microwave.

So we did the research, figured out what we needed to maintain a normal semblence of life and in 2004 bought the 25,000 watt-er, which has auto/manual features. I am not a high-maintence woman; forget the jewelry, bring me electricity. It self-cycles every Thursday morning at 10 am for 15 minutes and the sound is music to my ears.

Until just recently (when societal breakdown anxieties began), the joke 'round here was "sheesh, we could've gotten a big box, written "generator" on it and maybe Mother Nature would've known no different", as we haven't had a major outage since.

On the other hand, I was thinking maybe a could get protection-payments from the neighbors to help defray the cost, 'cause their power hasn't blipped out since then either.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by nolan on Apr 15, 2010, 8:06pm

Available for adoption:
40 yo caucasian male w/ wife and 4 kids.
Military veteran w/ combat exp. and can supply own weapons, ammo, food and water. First aid, combat lifesaver, and NBC skills rusty but in good working order.
Forward thinking, like-minded, and intelligent (depends on who ya' ask, though!) and can operate heavy machinery. Other skills are varied and appliciable.
Will work for food.

CO, the gas pump above, would you think that grounding would be a worthwhile safety addition? Maybe a few feet of copper cable attached to the pump and a large spike or something? Gas and electricity are two things for which I have a healthy respect. I'm pretty safety conscious to the point that I have eye protection, gloves (injuries and infection are the enemies!) and am trying to negotiate the purchase of an M1-A1 Abrams to wrap myself in. No dice yet!
Soup, the threaded end on the pump to add lengths for deep tanks is a hell of an idea. Thanks

For the purpose of gas transfer/storage, I'm going to add conditioner, but also use cans to fill my cars and use the FIFO method for fuel, as well as food and other perishables. We have several 35lb tanks of propane on hand at all times and the cars are never less than 1/2 full. A couple years ago, we had some meat get freezer-burned and even though it was an awful meal, it was a good lesson. We've started jarring, but not much yet, and plan for more with this harvest, if it comes in strong.

My wife had it mind to scoot if the lights go out, but that would be awful considering where we are. We're outside Boston by about 45 min (by car) and there's a real sh*thole city called Brockton about 25 min away. Worcester is the other big city, then Providence. To get somewhere else, we'd have to thread the needle between all these Urban Islands full of restless natives and zombies. Back roads are easy to blockade, and the main-lines will be all parking lots. The time to leave here is last year. So, here we are in the middle of zombie-land!

I, too, have the town and surrounds factored in re: ingress/egress and choke-points and OP's. I know where to place bunkers and blockades, booby-traps and the like (I wont use the alliteritive B-word so as to avoid getting flagged by the "Elder Male Sibling"). I need lots of assistance, clearly, but I think there'll be plenty of construction equip. around when I need it.
I have lists made up of things to grab at the grocery stores (twinkies and soda are way, way down the list) and the Home Depot. Generators, fridges and freezers, chain-saws and shovels. Damn near the whole store. The U-haul place will have to provide trucking, but again, before that, it comes down to head-count.
Neighbors here look at me like I'm tapped (I am, which is probably why I'm flyin' solo) and smirk w/ their little knowing smiles. Anybody else get that? I usually like to get the last laugh, but will seriously die happy if I never get it in over those folks. The thing I say is that even though those survivalist "nuts" fears in the 70's and 80's were never realized, it doesn't mean they were wrong! We were so close several times and very few know about it. There just were no guarantees that it was going to end the way it did. But this situation, well, there's just so many differences that it doesn't compare. My Dad tried to allay my concerns once by saying "Somebody always comes along and keeps things right and cooler heads prevail" or some such nonsense. I asked him "Where's that guarantee written? And who underwrites it?" And he's no slouch when it comes to history! I know he was trying to ease my concerns, but it keeps me from broaching the subject w/ him again.

Soup, I also took CPR when my kids were born. The others in the class were there to punch the ticket for the job, mostly. There were a few who did it for the sake of being prepared, but beyond that I couldn't see myself allying w/ them. This is MA, after all!
The line about not freking out at an accident scene brings to mind my own personal pearl of wisdom, "Plan ahead, Perform now, panic later!"
Also, have you ever checked out the blog "Sipsey Street Irregulars"? He speaks about the "Three Percent". The portion of the colonist who took up arms against the Brits. It's a guesstimate, I think, but he extrapolates upon it and fits it into todays situation very well. Some of his stuff is, well, easy to skip over, but most of it is well written and well thought-out. Point being, he relayed a conversation he had w/ a friend (fictitious, I think, but well written) and one of the things he mentioned that puts people into the Three Percent mind-set category is that you don't gawk at an accident scene and wait for the "Authorities" to take care of the Citizenry. You act! You're independent and confident enough to use your own judgement.
I don't know if the number is as low as 3%, but I sure as sh*t hope that it's higher when the time comes.
JF, I'm hitting "craigs list" next. Good lead. Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by nolan on Apr 15, 2010, 8:11pm

Pan, you posted while I was writing my novel above and you reminded me of something.
When using a portable generator, make a short male-male cord and plug it into a wall outlet near the panel. Turn off the main breaker and any circuits un-used and the needed circuits will be energized. No need for multiple cords. Although you took care of it, it's something I hope somebody can use.
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Re: A discussion of priorities
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2011, 02:15:55 PM »
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 15, 2010, 8:42pm

--->CO, the gas pump above, would you think that grounding would be a worthwhile safety addition?<---

The pump is manual, never seen one grounded. If lightning strikes it, it won't make any difference.
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 15, 2010, 8:44pm


Apr 15, 2010, 8:11pm, nolan wrote:
Pan, you posted while I was writing my novel above and you reminded me of something.
When using a portable generator, make a short male-male cord and plug it into a wall outlet near the panel. Turn off the main breaker and any circuits un-used and the needed circuits will be energized. No need for multiple cords. Although you took care of it, it's something I hope somebody can use.


When on craigs list check surrounding states. If you're going to back feed the house I would suggest you use a dryer plug(30 amps at 220) and go through the box with the main breaker off and select what you're going to leave on.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 15, 2010, 8:59pm

Why would you leave the main breaker off?Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by nolan on Apr 15, 2010, 9:26pm

So power won't go back into the grid. You don't want to energize the street. A portable wouldn't produce enough juice to power your stuff if it's bleeding out through the main.
RE: the grounding; it isn't lightning to worry about. Static discharge, cell phones would be my primary concern. Metal to metal contact causing a spark also, though I don't know if grounding will prevent that. That's a different ignition mechanism.

JF, would the gen hafta' be rated for the plug, vice versa, or could you affix a male plug onto the dryer plug leads?Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 15, 2010, 9:28pm


Apr 15, 2010, 8:59pm, charlesoakwood wrote:
Why would you leave the main breaker off?


You don't want the power leaking back into the street where somebody making repairs could get blown off a pole. In other words the power you make stays in your house.Or the power coming back on and blowing your generator up. I use a gentran panel much safer. Trade name is a transfer switch,

Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 15, 2010, 9:52pm

>>> that baby probably burn aroung 4 gals of propane an hour. Nice though sounds like a Generac. <<<

It's rated at 4.8 gals an hour, probably a little more during extreme heat or cold, w/max load. Don't expect to be running it, if TSHTF, more than 2 hours a day anyway, enough to keep the water hot and the freezer cold and to fill up the water containers for drinking, cooking and toilet flushing, and not at max usage. The sound would be a zombie-attractant.

At that rate, with 1700 gals. at max usage, we've got roughly 2 1/3 yrs. of propane. Hopefully, we'll be able to get a fill up before then. If not, then not. I can cook very well on a cast-iron wood stove and a manual/solar well-pump will serve, as will the fireplace insert.

It's a Guardian, made by Generac.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by nolan on Apr 15, 2010, 10:03pm

"The sound would be a zombie-attractant."
Pan, would you run it in the day, do ya' think, or at night? Sound travels at night, but during daytime you would want to be able to hear anything you may need to hear. I don't know what makes more sense, but definitely stagger the times you run it. Don't set a pattern and give somebody a window of opportunity. Don't set any patterns if you can help it. Anybody observing will use the info to their advantage if they're up to no good.
It's amazing the level of details that need to be thought out on this. I'm glad I've written it down.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 15, 2010, 10:13pm


Apr 15, 2010, 10:03pm, nolan wrote:
"The sound would be a zombie-attractant."
Pan, would you run it in the day, do ya' think, or at night? Sound travels at night, but during daytime you would want to be able to hear anything you may need to hear. I don't know what makes more sense, but definitely stagger the times you run it. Don't set a pattern and give somebody a window of opportunity. Don't set any patterns if you can help it. Anybody observing will use the info to their advantage if they're up to no good.
It's amazing the level of details that need to be thought out on this. I'm glad I've written it down.


Daytime you can pretty much see what you need to; nighttime not as much, so prolly to stagger daytime runs would be the ticket so nighttime hearing could be relied on.

There will be much to learn. Hope we don't fail the "fatal" test.

How did Rumsfeld put it: there are knowns and unknowns and the known unknowns .... then there are the unknown unknowns. The last are the ones that'll kill ya, I think.
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Re: A discussion of priorities
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2011, 02:18:04 PM »
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by alphabetsoup on Apr 15, 2010, 11:25pm


Apr 15, 2010, 8:11pm, nolan wrote:
Pan, you posted while I was writing my novel above and you reminded me of something.
When using a portable generator, make a short male-male cord and plug it into a wall outlet near the panel. Turn off the main breaker and any circuits un-used and the needed circuits will be energized. No need for multiple cords. Although you took care of it, it's something I hope somebody can use.


Please, for the love of God, don't do this!

There are better solutions to routing power to the house that won't put your life, your significant others life, and your childrens lives at risk.

Use extension cords if you want "quick & dirty" or temporary solutions. Use a Transfer Switch: http://www.smps.us/transferswitch.html for correctly switching between the grid and your generator. Use the Transfer Switch with a subpanel for just the circuits you want the generator to power if you don't want to overload your generator.

Don't trade your lives for a false sense of convenience!

Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by libertasinfinitio on Apr 16, 2010, 7:28am

Good thread ya'll! We need to keep this sucker going, it's making a good resource here for all to use.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 16, 2010, 8:18am


Apr 15, 2010, 9:26pm, nolan wrote:
So power won't go back into the grid. You don't want to energize the street. A portable wouldn't produce enough juice to power your stuff if it's bleeding out through the main.
RE: the grounding; it isn't lightning to worry about. Static discharge, cell phones would be my primary concern. Metal to metal contact causing a spark also, though I don't know if grounding will prevent that. That's a different ignition mechanism.

JF, would the gen hafta' be rated for the plug, vice versa, or could you affix a male plug onto the dryer plug leads?



Nolan the Generator can be rated up to the plug/breaker limit but you have to remember that 30 amps at 220 is 60 amps at 110 so that a lot of power as long as you're not running things all at the same time. The biggest culprit is the electric stove as dead shorts draw a sh*t load of power.(unless you have gas stove)

We use a two burner portable unit that operates at 110 power. Hot water is electric so when I'm heating water I run nothing else and since water stays hot for a Long time I kill it off after it's hot.

As I stated in one of my posts a transfer switch is what I use the dryer plug is when you have nothing else but you do have to educate yourself on the SAFE USE of that method.

Like Soup said it's not worth your life or the people around you.The generator Pan has would be considered a monster for the average home. I get all except for the A/C done with a 10K unit just not as well as she can.

But when you talk about 1700 gals of propane in 21/2 days you're talkin folding money. With my unit if I ran it 24/7 I would burn up 50 gals of gas in the same time period.

But he system is a full house set up and mine is not but I can run like I said everything but the A/C.

And yes you can mate a dryer plug to the right size extension cord(I have a 10 Gage extension that I keep just in case.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 16, 2010, 8:23am


Apr 16, 2010, 7:28am, libertasinfinitio wrote:
Good thread ya'll! We need to keep this sucker going, it's making a good resource here for all to use.



Most of this stuff I've been pecking at for years. There were time when my wife thought I had lost my mind!!Till we had an ice storm in Connecticut that had the street in the dark for 8 days and we ended up with 4 families almost moving in with us because we had heat and water(well) and the ability to cook. One of the families included a new set of twins that were only a month old.

But no other dogs or cats the Rotti would never stand for that but he would lay down near the babies and keep watch.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 16, 2010, 9:00am

Through the dryer vent is resourceful. I haven't overcome the problem keeping the gen "out of the weather" so it's place is the front porch. 8' copper ground rod and 6ga connected to the gen.

Bought lengths of 12/2 Wg and correct plugs for genset and wired two 120v 15a receptacles in a box each.
Made a weather proof hatch 4" square to run cables through.

Bought an extra manifold. Next project is to knock down the decibel level. Gosh it's loud.
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Re: A discussion of priorities
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2011, 02:22:19 PM »
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 16, 2010, 9:51am

I'm sure you mean dryer plug.To keep it out of the weather I have been toying with using a plastic garbage barrel housing the ones you would keep your barrels in.

Even if you have to keep the front of it open you have it covered on three sides and a roof over it. Just face it away from the wind and make sure it's away from the house enough for cooling. But I do have to say that I spray silicon on the Plug wires and ignition and haven't had any problems when we put it out in snow storms.

Water can only get to the electrical part of it the ignition is the weak link. As for the noise the plastic housing should help but in the end the only way to beat the noise is to get an expensive unit like a Honda water cooled unit or a built in unit like Pans.

Most generators don't have real mufflers the have spark arrestorsRe: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 16, 2010, 11:08am

Use dryer vent to run cables from gen into the house.

Using alternate manifold: cut off the exit flange, attach flexible exhaust hose (JC Whitney), run it 2' past porch attach to an auto muffler. Using the alternate muffler rig would require removing three bolts to remove existing manifold and same to attach the alternate rig. I'm thinking day 2 or 3 I'd be ready to #$@&^^% that noisy *&!!!*!*.

The directions are explicit no moisture, no water, catastrophe, warning Will Robinson. Do they all come with such advisories?

Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 16, 2010, 12:04pm

Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart sells giant plastic tubs/bins. You may be able to find one large enough to flip over the generator. Cut a hole for the exhaust. If you find one that will work, drill a few holes around the rim to accomodate some of those aluminum landscaping stakes (they look like big nails) to secure in case of wind.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 16, 2010, 12:12pm


Apr 16, 2010, 11:08am, charlesoakwood wrote:
Use dryer vent to run cables from gen into the house.

Using alternate manifold: cut off the exit flange, attach flexible exhaust hose (JC Whitney), run it 2' past porch attach to an auto muffler. Using the alternate muffler rig would require removing three bolts to remove existing manifold and same to attach the alternate rig. I'm thinking day 2 or 3 I'd be ready to #$@&^^% that noisy *&!!!*!*.

The directions are explicit no moisture, no water, catastrophe, warning Will Robinson. Do they all come with such advisories?


The don't want them in driving rain but it should take some water. I own a Dyna is the brand American made.


NO CHINESE GENERATORS PLEASE. One of my neighbors bought one at Walmart and it's nothing but a heart ache. Built like sh*t too. And nobody has parts for that pos engine.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 16, 2010, 12:22pm


Apr 16, 2010, 12:04pm, Pandora wrote:
Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart sells giant plastic tubs/bins. You may be able to find one large enough to flip over the generator. Cut a hole for the exhaust. If you find one that will work, drill a few holes around the rim to accomodate some of those aluminum landscaping stakes (they look like big nails) to secure in case of wind.

The one I'm talking about is wide enough for a couple of trash cans and the top lifts and there are two front doors too. so you can just leave one door open so you have cooling air for the engine.

I can't find a picture of one. But I have seen them at all the big box stores.

Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by nolan on Apr 16, 2010, 5:38pm

I'm failry familiar w/ transfer switches from the cell phone industry. Used for the UPS to the building.
But in this app., would you put it on the house side or grid side of the main? And what is the exact nature of the problem. My Dad did this when we were kids, I've seen others do it and, if the main is thrown, that isolates the gen from the grid, right? A switch merely transfers power supply from one source to another, right? The wires don't care where the source is or which direction it's flowing since the gen inverts from dc to ac anyway, or am I way, way off?

JF, the plastic shed you show, would insulating it cause any problems w/ heat build-up? If the door's open while running the unit, then there's no point in sound insulating.
I've thought about putting it in the garqage, but modifying the exhaust, maybe w/ a kit you would find for an auto mechanics garage.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2011, 02:24:25 PM by Pandora »
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Re: A discussion of priorities
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2011, 02:25:50 PM »
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 16, 2010, 5:55pm


Apr 16, 2010, 5:38pm, nolan wrote:
I'm failry familiar w/ transfer switches from the cell phone industry. Used for the UPS to the building.
But in this app., would you put it on the house side or grid side of the main? And what is the exact nature of the problem. My Dad did this when we were kids, I've seen others do it and, if the main is thrown, that isolates the gen from the grid, right? A switch merely transfers power supply from one source to another, right? The wires don't care where the source is or which direction it's flowing since the gen inverts from dc to ac anyway, or am I way, way off?

JF, the plastic shed you show, would insulating it cause any problems w/ heat build-up? If the door's open while running the unit, then there's no point in sound insulating.
I've thought about putting it in the garage, but modifying the exhaust, maybe w/ a kit you would find for an auto mechanics garage.


The transfer switch goes nest to you main breaker panel it wire in so when you go on the switch it goes directly to the are you want power to and prevents power from leaving the house.

I did because it's fool proof and is I'm not home the wife can do it without any fear of a problem. My teen age daughter was home alone and she rolled the Generator out and started it and powered up the switch and it was safe and no potential problems. Oh and it has a 220 plug built in so you don't run wires threw the house to get to the dryer.


The insulation was for Charles Oakwood he can't stand the noise his makes. But with one door open it should be fine. But remember you only close it up when the weather isn't helping. Other than that open it up and let it rip.


I would not put it inside the house anywhere.It's not the safest way to do it.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 16, 2010, 6:16pm

>>> I would not put it inside the house anywhere.It's not the safest way to do it. <<<

JF's right, nolan; the generator needs to be outside. The danger is, even if you pipe the exhaust outside, if it's not airtight, you may as well be charcoal bbqing inside, plus you don't want to messing around with gasoline inside.

>>> Oh and it has a 220 plug built in so you don't run wires threw the house to get to the dryer. <<<

Use of the dryer VENT was a way to get a heavy-duty extension cord from the generator outside to the house inside in cases where the generator wasn't hooked into the main box.

>>> When using a portable generator, make a short male-male cord and plug it into a wall outlet near the panel. Turn off the main breaker and any circuits un-used and the needed circuits will be energized. <<<

Never do this. Wall outlets are rated for only 15 amps. Anything else that you plug into other outlet/s anywhere else in the house will run the risk of drawing more than 15 amps through the outlet into which you've plugged the generator, even with a 220 plug. Fire!

Hard-wiring the transfer switch on the house side of the main power feed 1) prevents your power from feeding back into the grid and 2) safely distributes the power from your generator to all circuits.

>>> The insulation was for Charles Oakwood he can't stand the noise his makes. <<<

I wouldn't insulate it. There are sound-deadening/dampening materials for that which don't really hold the heat.

Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 16, 2010, 6:23pm


Apr 16, 2010, 6:16pm, Pandora wrote:
>>> I would not put it inside the house anywhere.It's not the safest way to do it. <<<

JF's right, nolan; the generator needs to be outside. The danger is, even if you pipe the exhaust outside, if it's not airtight, you may as well be charcoal bbqing inside, plus you don't want to messing around with gasoline inside.

>>> Oh and it has a 220 plug built in so you don't run wires threw the house to get to the dryer. <<<

Use of the dryer VENT was a way to get a heavy-duty extension cord from the generator outside to the house inside in cases where the generator wasn't hooked into the main box.

>>> When using a portable generator, make a short male-male cord and plug it into a wall outlet near the panel. Turn off the main breaker and any circuits un-used and the needed circuits will be energized. <<<

Never do this. Wall outlets are rated for only 15 amps. Anything else that you plug into other outlet/s anywhere else in the house will run the risk of drawing more than 15 amps through the outlet into which you've plugged the generator, even with a 220 plug. Fire!
Hard-wiring the transfer switch on the house side of the main power feed 1) prevents your power from feeding back into the grid and 2) safely distributes the power from your generator to all circuits.

>>> The insulation was for Charles Oakwood he can't stand the noise his makes. <<<

I wouldn't insulate it. There are sound-deadening/dampening materials for that which don't really hold the heat.


He was talking about the dryer plug that 30 amps at 220.
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Re: A discussion of priorities
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2011, 02:27:44 PM »
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 16, 2010, 6:42pm

JF, your use of "plug" for "outlet" is a bit confusing. (The plug is what ya put into the outlet) ;)

If nolan's house is anything like mine, most houses are, (yours may not be) things are wired higgledy-piggledy into the panel in the house. Unless one carefully maps out where every single thing is wired into that panel, it's not an easy job knowing what circuits to shut off in order to not exceed 30 amps.

We're basically on the same page here, though.

Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 16, 2010, 7:01pm


Apr 16, 2010, 6:42pm, Pandora wrote:
JF, your use of "plug" for "outlet" is a bit confusing. (The plug is what ya put into the outlet) ;)

If nolan's house is anything like mine, most houses are, (yours may not be) things are wired higgledy-piggledy into the panel in the house. Unless one carefully maps out where every single thing is wired into that panel, it's not an easy job knowing what circuits to shut off in order to not exceed 30 amps.

We're basically on the same page here, though.




We are but the only things he has top worry about arte things that go on automaticaly like the hot war if electric. That and the stove if electric are the onlt things that would hurt the generator of it's not big enough. The odds are he's going to get something around 6500 amps. that will do 120 power no problem abut anything 220 wii be an issue unless he shuts everthing else off and even then he has to know what the draw on those is.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 16, 2010, 7:01pm

When 220/30 is split it becomes two leads of 110/15.

If it goes into the dryer outlet then it will be be the inverse or split at the box?

I like my cables. I know where it's going.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 16, 2010, 7:17pm


Apr 16, 2010, 7:01pm, johnflorida wrote:

Apr 16, 2010, 6:42pm, Pandora wrote:
JF, your use of "plug" for "outlet" is a bit confusing. (The plug is what ya put into the outlet) ;)

If nolan's house is anything like mine, most houses are, (yours may not be) things are wired higgledy-piggledy into the panel in the house. Unless one carefully maps out where every single thing is wired into that panel, it's not an easy job knowing what circuits to shut off in order to not exceed 30 amps.

We're basically on the same page here, though.




We are but the only things he has top worry about arte things that go on automaticaly like the hot war if electric. That and the stove if electric are the onlt things that would hurt the generator of it's not big enough. The odds are he's going to get something around 6500 amps. that will do 120 power no problem abut anything 220 wii be an issue unless he shuts everthing else off and even then he has to know what the draw on those is.


No. The problem is not at the generator or even the appliance. The problem is exceeding 30 amps may cause a wire-fire in the wall at/or the outlet.

The refrigerator, microwave, TV and a couple lights will likely exceed 30 amps if all on at once.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by nolan on Apr 16, 2010, 7:17pm

Pan"Never do this. Wall outlets are rated for only 15 amps. Anything else that you plug into other outlet/s anywhere else in the house will run the risk of drawing more than 15 amps through the outlet into which you've plugged the generator, even with a 220 plug. Fire!"
Okay thanks for the info. My wiring is fairly current, but the electrician who installed it, loooong before we bought, did a half-assed job of labelling the panel.

CO "I like my cables. I know where it's going" sounds like that'll be the way to go until I can get it sorted out. And by sorted out I mean having a Brinks truck driving by my house w/ the doors open.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by gunsmith on Apr 16, 2010, 7:47pm


Apr 16, 2010, 7:01pm, charlesoakwood wrote:
When 220/30 is split it becomes two leads of 110/15.

If it goes into the dryer outlet then it will be be the inverse or split at the box?

I like my cables. I know where it's going.


If your generator has a 220/30 output then technically each hot wire of that 220/30 is coming out of the gen carrying 110/15, which would then flow through the 220/30 dryer outlet back into the house panel.

Now the complex part.

Depending on how the dryer circuit is wired at the panel can determine what gets gen power from the panel.

Modern commercial power enters into the panel on three big wires; 2 carrying 110v, the third is the neutral. 1 of those wires feeds the left side of your panel, the other feeds your panel's right side.

If your dryer's 220v circuit's hot wires are only wired to your panel's right side, then when you back-feed from the gen through the dryer circuit you'll only feed the circuits on the right side of the panel. So if your refrig's circuit is on the left side of the panel your cold food is SOL.
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Re: A discussion of priorities
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2011, 02:28:40 PM »
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 16, 2010, 8:59pm

So, if the mains coming from the weather head are connected one to each side of the panel everything is OK?Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 16, 2010, 9:01pm


Apr 16, 2010, 7:17pm, Pandora wrote:

Apr 16, 2010, 7:01pm, johnflorida wrote:



We are but the only things he has top worry about arte things that go on automaticaly like the hot war if electric. That and the stove if electric are the onlt things that would hurt the generator of it's not big enough. The odds are he's going to get something around 6500 amps. that will do 120 power no problem abut anything 220 wii be an issue unless he shuts everthing else off and even then he has to know what the draw on those is.


No. The problem is not at the generator or even the appliance. The problem is exceeding 30 amps may cause a wire-fire in the wall at/or the outlet.

The refrigerator, microwave, TV and a couple lights will likely exceed 30 amps if all on at once.




I'm talking 30 amps at 220 wich is 60 amps at 110 plus or minus a couple of amps,Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by nolan on Apr 16, 2010, 9:01pm

I don't suppose a cursory examination will be enough to determine what's what in the panel, huh?
I have a little electrical experience (as if ya' couldn't tell), but can't just look in and know what's what.

But to clarify, when you say "each hot wire", do you mean each cord plugged into the receptacle of the gen? Am I recalling correctly that there are 220/30 receptacles on a gen anyway? This in addition to the (usually) single-gang, two outlets like ya' see on the wall?
Or is it dependent on each model and rating. And should I just go learn this stuff and quit buggin' ya'll.
And re-reading Pan's post @ 7:16 prompts me to ask if simply flipping the breakers to the other, unused circuits will prevent the draw problem, all else being equal?Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 16, 2010, 9:02pm


Apr 16, 2010, 7:01pm, charlesoakwood wrote:
When 220/30 is split it becomes two leads of 110/15.

If it goes into the dryer outlet then it will be be the inverse or split at the box?

I like my cables. I know where it's going.


Yes.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 16, 2010, 9:05pm


Apr 16, 2010, 9:01pm, johnflorida wrote:

Apr 16, 2010, 7:17pm, Pandora wrote:


No. The problem is not at the generator or even the appliance. The problem is exceeding 30 amps may cause a wire-fire in the wall at/or the outlet.

The refrigerator, microwave, TV and a couple lights will likely exceed 30 amps if all on at once.




I'm talking 30 amps at 220 wich is 60 amps at 110 plus or minus a couple of amps,


Again, NO. 30 amps at 220 is 15 amps at 110.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 16, 2010, 9:06pm


Apr 16, 2010, 7:47pm, gunsmith wrote:

Apr 16, 2010, 7:01pm, charlesoakwood wrote:
When 220/30 is split it becomes two leads of 110/15.

If it goes into the dryer outlet then it will be be the inverse or split at the box?

I like my cables. I know where it's going.


If your generator has a 220/30 output then technically each hot wire of that 220/30 is coming out of the gen carrying 110/15, which would then flow through the 220/30 dryer outlet back into the house panel.

Now the complex part.

Depending on how the dryer circuit is wired at the panel can determine what gets gen power from the panel.

Modern commercial power enters into the panel on three big wires; 2 carrying 110v, the third is the neutral. 1 of those wires feeds the left side of your panel, the other feeds your panel's right side.

If your dryer's 220v circuit's hot wires are only wired to your panel's right side, then when you back-feed from the gen through the dryer circuit you'll only feed the circuits on the right side of the panel. So if your refrig's circuit is on the left side of the panel your cold food is SOL.


Unless you find an outlet from the hot side and run a cord if you need to


Or avoid the whole mess and get a Transfer switch for the Generator you have and wire in what it will safly run and do without what you don't need like lights in every roon in the house. Power what you need and skip the rest. TV is a must(but that's just me)
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Re: A discussion of priorities
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2011, 02:29:53 PM »
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 16, 2010, 9:09pm


Apr 16, 2010, 9:05pm, Pandora wrote:

Apr 16, 2010, 9:01pm, johnflorida wrote:




I'm talking 30 amps at 220 wich is 60 amps at 110 plus or minus a couple of amps,


Again, NO. 30 amps at 220 is 15 amps at 110.


NO dear. 30 amps at 220 is 60 amps at110 it the opposite of what you're saying.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 16, 2010, 9:13pm

And one more thing none of us has brought up,Communication system. As in phones are dead web is out so that leaves Short Wave radio.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 16, 2010, 9:42pm


Apr 16, 2010, 9:13pm, johnflorida wrote:
And one more thing none of us has brought up,Communication system. As in phones are dead web is out so that leaves Short Wave radio.


or if you have family

Read about Motorola hand held radio, several channels, and seek. Their stats say up to 10 miles; if you could get 3mi it would be worth the cost.

Does anybody use CB anymore?

Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by nolan on Apr 16, 2010, 9:42pm

Commo is key, JF. Haven't given much thought to communicating w/ the world, but locally have 2-ways and want a police scanner. Don't think anything of substance would come through in the clear, like them saying "Get ready to go to that guy's house", but it'd be a potential source.
The SW radio idea is new to me. NOt very familiar, but have heard the standard stories about bouncing the signal and reciving from various points on the globe, but how good is the local reception? Can it be used say, around the 'hood, block, or town or is not practical. Would it be a base station, if hand-helds were tuned to the proper freq? Can hand-helds reach the range needed, or is there an issue w/ the size of the, mmm, cabinet?
And what about CB? That's different than SW altogether, yes? I know that's more practical on a locallevel, but they are different, right? I know there's a broad range of freq's and know some carry differently, but don't know which end of the spectrum is which?

If you know of a good site on-line that I can hit, or if a quick info-dump is enough, I'll take whatever you can offer.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 16, 2010, 10:13pm

Think I have something archived, JF probably already has it.
C Craine is good vendor.
IMHO SW takes some time, some math, and some money. Bought an inexpensive Sangean, it was no help. Radios is all bandwidth, which part of the spectrum designates what type of radio to buy for that spectrum. IMHO cops now are on either computer or code, no chatter. They frown on chatter.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by nolan on Apr 16, 2010, 10:25pm

Thanks CO.
I haven't listened to a scanner in years, but do know that some depts have NEXTEL. Don't know if it's for duty/patrol or what. Also don't know, but guessing not, that police cars and base units are encrypted.
By computer you mean a laptop in the car, not algorithmic security of the transmission, right? And codes for different events/distress calls? As long as it's broadcast in the clear, I think SIGINT could determine what's what, but that'll obviously take time to establish. The codes are pretty standardized IIRC, varied from dept. to dept., but agin, IIRC, that info can be found.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by gunsmith on Apr 16, 2010, 10:27pm


Apr 16, 2010, 9:09pm, johnflorida wrote:

Apr 16, 2010, 9:05pm, Pandora wrote:


Again, NO. 30 amps at 220 is 15 amps at 110.


NO dear. 30 amps at 220 is 60 amps at110 it the opposite of what you're saying.



Not sure how you got there but when talking about output from the gen 220/30 plug, each hot wire has 110v/15amps not 110/60amps go crank up your gen and measure it.

Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by gunsmith on Apr 16, 2010, 10:33pm


Apr 16, 2010, 9:13pm, johnflorida wrote:
And one more thing none of us has brought up,Communication system. As in phones are dead web is out so that leaves Short Wave radio.



HAM Radio is the only way to go. A general licence will cost you less than $50 and a month's time to study and pass the test. Licence is good for 10yrs.
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Re: A discussion of priorities
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2011, 02:31:06 PM »
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 16, 2010, 11:06pm


Apr 16, 2010, 10:27pm, gunsmith wrote:

Apr 16, 2010, 9:09pm, johnflorida wrote:


NO dear. 30 amps at 220 is 60 amps at110 it the opposite of what you're saying.



Not sure how you got there but when talking about output from the gen 220/30 plug, each hot wire has 110v/15amps not 110/60amps go crank up your gen and measure it.




Maybe I didn't word it right. What I'm saying is that 30 amps at 220 is double the amps at 110.

My generator is rated at 34 amps at 220 and 60+ amps at 110 I'm talking about total output. In other word total amps at 220 and 110.

Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 17, 2010, 10:07am


Apr 16, 2010, 11:06pm, johnflorida wrote:

Apr 16, 2010, 10:27pm, gunsmith wrote:



Not sure how you got there but when talking about output from the gen 220/30 plug, each hot wire has 110v/15amps not 110/60amps go crank up your gen and measure it.




Maybe I didn't word it right. What I'm saying is that 30 amps at 220 is double the amps at 110.

My generator is rated at 34 amps at 220 and 60+ amps at 110 I'm talking about total output. In other word total amps at 220 and 110.



I see now. You're talking about your generator output (and even that isn't universal; it will vary from generator to generator).

The discussion was how much draw from various appliances, etc. could safely be brought to bear through a dryer outlet, which is typically limited to 30 amps.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 17, 2010, 10:11am


More bang for your buck except for the well and hot water.
Bought a couple of small 5+ amp 5K+ BTU A/C's that will bypass the HVAC.
Also bought a Vogelzang (NorthernTools & TractorSupply).

They may be become standard appliances when the 400% utility increase goes into affect.


Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 17, 2010, 10:16am

-->The discussion was how much draw from various appliances, etc. could safely be brought to bear through a dryer outlet, which is typically limited to 30 amps.<--

Yes. It is 30 amps total. There are 2 hot wires in that lead, each carries 110/15, they are in phase (the current alternates from one wire to the other at 60 cps), that's how they make 220. If you take one lead by itself you have 110/15.


Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 17, 2010, 11:06am


Apr 17, 2010, 10:07am, Pandora wrote:

Apr 16, 2010, 11:06pm, johnflorida wrote:



Maybe I didn't word it right. What I'm saying is that 30 amps at 220 is double the amps at 110.

My generator is rated at 34 amps at 220 and 60+ amps at 110 I'm talking about total output. In other word total amps at 220 and 110.



I see now. You're talking about your generator output (and even that isn't universal; it will vary from generator to generator).

The discussion was how much draw from various appliances, etc. could safely be brought to bear through a dryer outlet, which is typically limited to 30 amps.



Exactly!!You can draw depending on your generator what the dryer outlet is rated for in relative safety up to the outlet's rating usualy 30amps of 220 voltage usuming you generator can produce it.
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 17, 2010, 11:14am

CO, what do you think of JF's generator-in-the-box idea?Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 17, 2010, 11:15am


Apr 17, 2010, 10:11am, charlesoakwood wrote:

More bang for your buck except for the well and hot water.
Bought a couple of small 5+ amp 5K+ BTU A/C's that will bypass the HVAC.
Also bought a Vogelzang (NorthernTools & TractorSupply).

They may be become standard appliances when the 400% utility increase goes into affect.



What is a Vogelzang?


You bought a wood burning stove?
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Re: A discussion of priorities
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2011, 02:32:39 PM »
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 17, 2010, 11:24am

Boxwood stoveRe: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 17, 2010, 11:41am


Apr 17, 2010, 11:24am, charlesoakwood wrote:
Boxwood stove


Oooh. Which one?Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 17, 2010, 11:44am


Apr 17, 2010, 11:24am, charlesoakwood wrote:
Boxwood stove



Even though I prefer Pellet stoves where you gonna get pellets in a pinch. Wood you can find no matter what it is,Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 17, 2010, 12:03pm


Apr 16, 2010, 10:33pm, gunsmith wrote:

Apr 16, 2010, 9:13pm, johnflorida wrote:
And one more thing none of us has brought up,Communication system. As in phones are dead web is out so that leaves Short Wave radio.



HAM Radio is the only way to go. A general licence will cost you less than $50 and a month's time to study and pass the test. Licence is good for 10yrs.



I know nothing about these. If you have any info please share.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 17, 2010, 12:54pm

Boxwood is the traditional and for the time being grandfathered cast iron stove.

The nanny models, "EPA Certified",
stoves put about half the btu's into the room per amount of wood burned as the originals. Places other than Vogelzang sell some very attractive and expensive models.

All our parents or grandparents, and before survived those nasty things we will also. All one needs to do is operate it properly.



As to the genbox:
Overall uncomfortable with air cooled engines, they don't have thermostats, and mine doesn't have an overheat cutoff. Pretty well set up for porch, have ground rod and lead obscured by landscaping and the gen is put away on wheels. At the inconvenient moment, wheel it out, connect ground, take lines into house, open secure hatch and run out the plugs, plug them in and crank it up. ...when I get proximal to an engine lathe - going to mill down that alternate manifold

15min including oops


Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by alphabetsoup on Apr 17, 2010, 1:03pm


Apr 17, 2010, 11:14am, Pandora wrote:
CO, what do you think of JF's generator-in-the-box idea?


When I got my first portable generator I wondered how I was going to use it. The rental house where I lived did not have a garage or carport and I did not want the thing to be out in the weather. So I checked out a Little Nickel (no Craigslist then) and located a cheap metal storage shed. I set it up out in the back yard and put the gen in there. I knew that there would be some voltage loss from it being that far away from the house but I had a high quality 100' construction grade extension cord that I had used with a portable generator for temporary site power on construction jobs.

I did cheat and use the dryer vent to rout the cable into the house and, since it wasn't my place to modify, only used cables, not a x-fer box. It satisfied my immediate needs.

The shed cut the noise by an amazing degree for a metal box and none of my neighbors complained (most weren't even aware that there was a gen there).

I soon recognized the need to vent the muffler to the outside and put together a quick~&~dirty system using metal dryer vent tube. I only had occasion to use it in the winter so I don't know if the amount of heat generated by the system would damage a plastic enclosure but I wouldn't care to trust it too far.

My current system is located on the far side of my garage. I poured a concrete pad for it to rest on and scrounged some rubber pads that insulate it from the ground. I constructed a wood frame and skinned it in aluminum sheeting, forming a small shed-like structure.

It's still a 4.5k gas powered gen and not what I have in mind for a permanent solution but has served me well so far. When I poured the pad I did so designing it with an eventual upgrade to a larger natural gas unit in mind.
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Re: A discussion of priorities
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2011, 02:36:17 PM »
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Apr 17, 2010, 1:03pm, alphabetsoup wrote:

Concrete pad - smart! Ours is, too, w/copper grounding rod.

Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 17, 2010, 1:32pm

It's all about air space around it. I have seen a couple of sizes out there and they would hold my 10kw with plenty of room. But leaving door or doors open and still have it covered on top and three sides should be plenty.

If it's hot and you're worried about it over heating just plug a fan in one of the outlets and let her rip.

Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 17, 2010, 1:33pm

Nice unit you got there!!Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 17, 2010, 4:54pm

Now why did that make me immediately think, "it'd be too bad if anything happened tuit"?

Seen too many Mafia movies.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 17, 2010, 5:04pm


Apr 17, 2010, 4:54pm, Pandora wrote:
Now why did that make me immediately think, "it'd be too bad if anything happened tuit"?

Seen too many Mafia movies.


Hey!!Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 17, 2010, 6:38pm

What? Are you Mafioso? No? Then fuggedaboutit. ;DRe: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 17, 2010, 8:04pm


Apr 17, 2010, 6:38pm, Pandora wrote:
What? Are you Mafioso? No? Then fuggedaboutit. ;D


It's a stereo type! Racist!Tea bagger!Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 17, 2010, 10:11pm

Aw jeez. C'mere. So I can smack ya.

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Re: A discussion of priorities
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2011, 02:37:42 PM »
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by coftas on Oct 28, 2010, 11:29am

I read all 5 pages so far... and it's left me dizzy.

One could read this thread and conclude that all of the members here are a bunch of "wingnuts" waiting for Armageddon with bated breath.....

While I find severe severe social unrest hard to contemplate, I am smart enough to know it can and will happen. In this country? Yes. At one point or another, because of the way this country has gone for the past 50 years or so, I would call it inevitable.

A close friend of mine and I have talked things like this before, and since Obama's election, the discussions have, at least on his end, taken on a sense of urgency, which I completely understand.

At one point, during one of these discussions, the conversation turned to 'sanctuaries" if staying in our homes became untenable, some place where people could gather, for better protection and such. I half-jokingly mentioned the public school my children attend, it is close by, surrounded by open space, and it's a sturdy old building. It was built as a "fallout shelter" during the Cold War, and has some "survivability" built into it.

My friend then took me to his sanctuary....it's where one wouldn't expect it, and doesn't look like it from the outside, but, it is what it is. I can't say much about it, but what I was shown tells me that he knows some people that are serious about the TSHTF and sometime in the near future too. Basically, the structure is divided (on paper) into a couple of major sections. Armory, kitchen, living, medical and storage. If a problem arises, it can easily be converted into the above mentioned areas. The structure can shelter quite a few people in decent comfort, and is easily defensible.

I was both impressed, and frightened of the implications. I was in my 20's during the "Survivalist" craze of the 1980's I am also well versed in military history as well, and while some may believe it to be paranoia and craziness, I understand differently. I just wish I had the resources to do what I need to do. I may understand what needs to be done, and can recognize the early signs that TSHTF I am not prepared for it.

Perhaps, after all, this is the End Times as prophesied in the Bible, and things are going to go from bad to worse, and quickly. Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by irondiopriest on Oct 28, 2010, 11:48am

I was just thinking this morning, Coftas, that in all likelihood, if and when TSHTF, it is not going to be a gradual series of events, giving people the time to play "catch-up". It will likely be an urgent, immediate situation, and it will not abate, but rather, deteriorate.

Like you, I see the need. And while I do have resources at my disposal, I am in a marriage partnership that does not provide for autonomy or unilateral decision making. I have convinced my wife that certain provisions for food, water, self-protection, and emergency medical care are wise and necessary.

But the big things, like heat, long-term food & water, perimeter defense, electricity and the like, are thus far giving way to things like painting the walls, new furniture, and saving for Spring vacation. I can't insist on these things without completely disrupting her world. All I can do is continue to educate her, and hopefully, at some point before TSHTF, she will come into agreement with me.

Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by libertasinfinitio on Oct 28, 2010, 11:54am


Apr 17, 2010, 12:03pm, johnflorida wrote:

Apr 16, 2010, 10:33pm, gunsmith wrote:



HAM Radio is the only way to go. A general licence will cost you less than $50 and a month's time to study and pass the test. Licence is good for 10yrs.



I know nothing about these. If you have any info please share.


Me and my brother have mobile units. Haven't got to studying for the license yet. If TSHTF hard enough, nobody will be left to worry about who or who does not have a license, so even if all you do is get one and store it in case of the worst scenario, you'd be ahead of the game.

We'll get our licenses sometime soon, just so we can establish ranges and maybe our own bug-out codes.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by libertasinfinitio on Oct 28, 2010, 12:01pm


Oct 28, 2010, 11:48am, irondiopriest wrote:
I was just thinking this morning, Coftas, that in all likelihood, if and when TSHTF, it is not going to be a gradual series of events, giving people the time to play "catch-up". It will likely be an urgent, immediate situation, and it will not abate, but rather, deteriorate.

Like you, I see the need. And while I do have resources at my disposal, I am in a marriage partnership that does not provide for autonomy or unilateral decision making. I have convinced my wife that certain provisions for food, water, self-protection, and emergency medical care are wise and necessary.

But the big things, like heat, long-term food & water, perimeter defense, electricity and the like, are thus far giving way to things like painting the walls, new furniture, and saving for Spring vacation. I can't insist on these things without completely disrupting her world. All I can do is continue to educate her, and hopefully, at some point before TSHTF, she will come into agreement with me.



I think your case is much more common than not. Being single I am much more flexible than most, and since my immediate family is 80% like-minded, making longer term preparations is much easier. And pooling resources helps immensely.

The main point being people need to do what they can, and have some alternatives in mind should the unthinkable occur.

In that these discussions have much merit.

Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Oct 28, 2010, 4:12pm

Then get slowly prepared baby steps work too. For each one you take you're that much further ahead.

Wing nuts are only wing nuts when nothing happens.If it happens were geniuses.

"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"