Author Topic: Is the EU Going to Topple?  (Read 20744 times)

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Online AlanS

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2011, 04:59:41 PM »

Old genetic fears and the knowledge that Germany
is the most disciplined and stable country on the continent.


and they still know how to make things

And are still quite productive. Odd they don't have the nanny state the rest of Europe has adopted.
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Offline BMG

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2011, 02:28:17 PM »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8882643/France-plots-eurozone-breakaway-group.html

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France is drawing up plans to create a breakaway organisation of eurozone countries with its own treaty, parliament and headquarters – a move that could significantly undermine the existing European Union.
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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2011, 02:54:43 PM »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8882643/France-plots-eurozone-breakaway-group.html

Quote
France is drawing up plans to create a breakaway organisation of eurozone countries with its own treaty, parliament and headquarters – a move that could significantly undermine the existing European Union.

It is my understanding that the French were the leading advocates for the EU in the first place, thinking their prominence and control would be increased through this avenue.
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Offline BMG

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2011, 03:02:55 PM »
I believe you're correct Pan.

Judging by this most recent story it looks like France is getting nervous that their prominence and control are going to be seriously weakened by this EU mess and are looking to dodge the bullet with this latest move. Don't know whether it will work or not - I suspect not - but one thing seems very clear to me. With this story now and the one last week about Germany starting to print their own money again...the EU is SERIOUSLY close to failing, these two countries are just getting ready for when it happens and the rest of world realizes it.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
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Offline BMG

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2011, 09:01:34 AM »
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-14/cameron-says-debt-crisis-is-chance-to-ebb-back-ties-in-rebuff-to-merkel.html

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U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron rebuffed a call by German Chancellor Angela Merkel for political union in Europe, underlining Britain’s growing distance from the 17-nation euro area as it seeks to resolve its debt crisis.

The crisis offers an opportunity for powers to “ebb back” from Europe to nation states, Cameron said in a speech in London last night. Hours earlier, Merkel told her Christian Democratic Union party in the eastern German city of Leipzig that it’s time to push for closer political ties and tighter budget rules. Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said today that the debate was deflecting attention from the fiscal crisis.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

Online Libertas

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2011, 09:19:09 AM »
A hodgepodge of conglomeration, going it alone and being cast aside seems inevitable...
« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 08:22:42 AM by Libertas »
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Offline BMG

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2011, 07:56:46 AM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/15/us-eurozone-idUSTRE7AC15K20111115

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France came under heavy fire on global markets Tuesday, reflecting fears that the euro zone's second biggest economy is being sucked into a spiraling debt crisis.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
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"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
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Online Libertas

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2011, 08:24:03 AM »
So that's what I heard?!   ::hysterical::

Yeah, big holder of Italian debt, that's gotta feel good, eh?

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Offline Glock32

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2011, 10:37:47 AM »
And one of the unmentioned points in all this, which I think is just as significant as any of the economic implications, is that here we have seen an experiment to force political/economic/cultural union onto a group of nations who are similar to each other in terms of their history, civic institutions, ethnicity, etc, and it's still a disaster. Yet we are told, breathlessly, that some sort of pie-in-the-sky global governance is an inevitability?  They can't even make it work on one continent, how could it ever work on an even larger scale?  Any political class that cedes sovereignty to some nebulous international "idea" is, quite simply, being traitorous to its own nation and should be dealt with appropriately when their machinations inevitably go bust.
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Online Libertas

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2011, 11:30:19 AM »
It is something we all know G, but it goes unmentioned because the MFM and the leftists pols have to have the pie-in-the-sky global governance goal as an ideal to strive for, everything they look to impose on people stems from that insane desire!  Plus, if we ever let 'em get it, well, it would make the holocaust look like a picnic in comparison...
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Online AlanS

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2011, 11:50:18 AM »
And one of the unmentioned points in all this, which I think is just as significant as any of the economic implications, is that here we have seen an experiment to force political/economic/cultural union onto a group of nations who are similar to each other in terms of their history, civic institutions, ethnicity, etc, and it's still a disaster.......

That's because Pelosi/Reid/Odrama weren't in charge...........
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Online Pandora

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2011, 12:44:45 PM »
It is something we all know G, but it goes unmentioned because the MFM and the leftists pols have to have the pie-in-the-sky global governance goal as an ideal to strive for, everything they look to impose on people stems from that insane desire!  Plus, if we ever let 'em get it, well, it would make the holocaust look like a picnic in comparison...

Yes, and I suspect those who want it know that and have no problem with it as long as they are the whip-hand.  It would require a vast and harshly dictatorial regime, that would make Mao look like a piker, to impose a global government.
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Online John Florida

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2011, 01:03:18 PM »
  I hope the poor bastard that took Italy over isn't unpacking a lot of stuff cause he's not making it through the next year. Greece is nothing compared to what's going to happen in Italy.
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Offline BMG

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2011, 02:04:15 PM »
Quote
I hope the poor bastard that took Italy over isn't unpacking a lot of stuff cause he's not making it through the next year. Greece is nothing compared to what's going to happen in Italy.

...and France, and Ireland, and Portugal, and Spain...they're all on the cusp of a Greece-like failure right now.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
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Offline BMG

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #54 on: November 17, 2011, 08:34:45 AM »
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jerrybowyer/2011/11/16/eu-topia-part-ii-how-europe-was-betrayed/

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The post-WWII vision of a free Europe was hijacked by the ruling classes and gradually became the inversion of what was originally promised. Konrad Adenauer, Jacques Rueff and others who had resisted fascism attempted to recreate what fascism had sought to destroy: the Christian free-market order of the late 19th Century.

They believed that humans, made in the image of God, were entitled to dignity as individuals and did not derive their value from their role in the collective. They advocated sound money, limited government, free trade in economics and national sovereignty in international relations. Their brainchild, the Treaty of Rome, ascribed rights to individuals and removed the powers of nation-states to impede foreign trade and migration.

Since the end of World War II, two vastly different visions of a new European order have been wrestling in the womb. The classical liberal goal for Europe was one free market, many nations. The other vision for Europe, the elite one, is one nation with no genuinely free markets.

The same kind of thing and tactics that they're trying right here...
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

Offline BMG

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #55 on: November 17, 2011, 09:12:07 AM »
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/27de9d54-1074-11e1-8010-00144feabdc0.html

Quote
As shockwaves from the eurozone crisis radiate outwards, Hungary has felt the full force of their impact.

Budapest has endured three difficult bond auctions in a week, yields have shot up, and the forint has tumbled to record lows. That, in turn, is fuelling inflation and increasing the pain for hundreds of thousands of Hungarians who took out mortgages in foreign currencies when the forint was much stronger.

Looks like Hungary is next in line...
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

Online Libertas

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #56 on: November 17, 2011, 10:45:27 AM »
Has the Great Meltdown begun?
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Offline BMG

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #57 on: November 17, 2011, 09:33:28 PM »
Quote
Has the Great Meltdown begun?

I think it's been underway for a while now actually.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

Offline BMG

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #58 on: November 17, 2011, 10:00:59 PM »
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/banks-in-italy-find-an-unusual-liquidity-lifeline/?smid=tw-nytimesdealbook&seid=auto

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LONDON — The London Stock Exchange is becoming the lender of last resort for many banks in Italy as concerns over the country’s debt levels squeeze liquidity out of the Italian financial market.

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Under terms of the deals, the clearinghouse, which acts as a middleman to guarantee trades between financial parties, is offering money to both Italian and European banks with a presence in Italy for up to three days.

The money, which comes from collateral that traders must put up to complete financial transactions, is deposited with the banks to cover shortfalls in liquidity. CC&G earns a profit by charging banks interest on the money that they borrow.

That sounds a bit dicey to me...taking payments from one group in order to pay another group...so if something happens to interrupt the cash at the front end, it completely affects the people along the entire chain. The chain is therefore, only as strong as the weakest link...and they see no inherent danger in this? It sounds suspiciously like a Ponzi scheme to me and we all know that those ALWAYS EVENTUALLY FAIL. In this case the weakest link would be the banks which are not at all healthy in the EU or here...so what happens when the banks are no longer able to pay these shortfalls back? We get bailouts...what happens when the bailouts cost too much and there isn't enough money to bail out anymore? Systemic failure is what happens. We already know that the EU is barely capable of bailing out Greece...and it looks like Italy is fast approaching the 'need' for a bailout. That promises to be the final straw that broke the camel's back. Here's the really bad part...

As detailed in Ann Barnhardt's letter from a separate thread ( http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,3926.0.html ), US brokerage firms are heavily invested in European sovereign junk debt. If the EU goes down, then the US is going with it. It looks like it would happen pretty much overnight. This would NOT simply affect big banks and/or brokerage firms. As Ann Barnhardt's letter notes, individual's are exposed to this.  Yeah, that means that everyone's 401ks, IRAs, etc could disappear overnight. But worse even is that if that happens the FDIC would crash as well meaning that your checking and savings accounts would also be wiped clean.

Now I'm not saying this is going to happen. But it sure looks like there's a pretty good chance that it can happen.

As an aside; I wonder when/if Obama/Reid will get around to offering to buy out 401k and IRA accounts in exchange for a government guaranteed 'retirement' account that will net you a guaranteed 2% or 3% growth (like social security). I have to wonder if that isn't part of the end game here in the first place...crash the economy intentionally and get their hands on all those trillions locked away in personnel retirement accounts.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 09:17:59 AM by BMG »
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

charlesoakwood

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #59 on: November 17, 2011, 11:05:27 PM »

Collateral curiosity, Germany a while back suggested Greece sell
some of its islands to pay off their debt and ever since the Greeks
have been screaming the Germans want their islands.  Called
them the N word too.

Wonder what CC&G wants for collateral?