Author Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine  (Read 10773 times)

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Offline Libertas

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http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7669066a-601f-11e3-b360-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2mz0WYySH

Not that Europe is exaclty the exemplar of freedom and virtue...but these folks really have been a plaything for the Russians for far too long...at some point they have to create their own identity and be free and independent on their own terms and not be a pawn of any power!
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Online ToddF

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2013, 08:29:03 AM »
Ironic what started it.  A leftist piece of garbage pretending he's a "right" thinker, just to go left again after winning.

A lesson to those who think any Democrat piece of garbage is anything but.

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2013, 03:27:18 PM »
FT has one of those obnoxious paywalls.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2013, 07:48:06 AM »
Crap, forgot about that...link from Drudge or someplace and you get it, kinda a one and done then that wall hits!   ::bashing::

As usual you get out of Amerika and the coverage is more widespread...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-divided-as-tens-of-thousands-protest-against-governments-scrapped-eu-deal-8960577.html

This sentiment was echoed by a number of protesters who spoke to The Independent. Anatolii, a 43 year-old Kiev resident, said: “Everyone who wants to live in a better Ukraine should be here today. This is about people coming together to achieve one aim – to be free, independent and proud of our country.”

Hang onto that desire and make it a reality.

Meanwhile Vald's puppet keeping a lid on the opposition -

Meanwhile, heavyweight world boxing champion and opposition Presidential candidate Vitalii Klitschko found his plane diverted as he attempted to return to Kiev from a business trip.

A spokesperson for his party said that he had been forced to land in a city several hundred miles from Kiev and the authorities had refused to allow him to leave the plane.


Read more on Vitalii & the UDAR here -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitali_Klitschko

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Democratic_Alliance_for_Reform

My main problem with this guy and this party is it is basically a populist party out to not ruffle too many feathers but wants to end the corruption and cease being a vassal of Russia.  The latter two are all well and good, but after that the big "uhh, now what?" hits.

Sadly, I am not convinced Ukraine has the right people in place to give it real free and independent freedom...which the people obviously long for.
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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2013, 02:10:25 PM »
A few years back I went on a couple of dates with a Ukrainian girl.  She made sure everyone knew the language she spoke is Ukrainian, not Russian. Definitely no love lost for Russia.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2013, 07:11:56 AM »
A few years back I went on a couple of dates with a Ukrainian girl.  She made sure everyone knew the language she spoke is Ukrainian, not Russian. Definitely no love lost for Russia.

Used to be in contact with some folks over there, helped me trace back my fathers line about as far as I could go, two world wars and countless other skirmishes really made recordkeeping a mess in that neck of the world.  Hope they are OK, haven't heard from them in years.  But the attitiude you describe is embedded, and I think the Soviet Occupation only intensified that.  Also, they get peeved over the proper way to refer to their nation - it is Ukraine, not "the Ukraine"...you don't say "the Russia" do you?!

It's tragic that a people so dominated and abused by Russia still has elements willing to subjugate themselves just for a little power of being the top dog in a lower tier pound!

The Russian Bear wants to keep Ukraine stuggling, poor and well under its heel...and this asswipe Yanukovich will do whatever Vlad says! 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-10/ukraine-escalates-police-storm-protest-camp

States in this area should have built a confederacy years ago to check both Russia and the EU, none of them will ever be independent and free until that happens...so I expect nothing but more of the same and endless misery for the people in the region.

Makes me sick.  It didn't have to be this way!
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2014, 11:40:54 AM »
These poor people are so screwed.  Wish they would have a true independence movement and tell both EU-loving faction and Rooskie-loving factions to FOAD but alas that seems improbable.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-27/ukrainian-currency-plunges-justice-minister-set-call-state-emergency

A state of emergency declaration would really trash their currency and more importantly guarantee it will be BITS for some time...could even be the pretext for a regional bully to intervene, even if by proxy.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2014, 08:41:45 AM »
Why do I get the distinct impression that the Sochi games are going to be eclipsed by unwanted intervention in Ukraine that could end the games before they start?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-30/ukraine-stocks-plunge-18-month-lows-ex-president-warns-imminent-civil-war

Fricken Vlad better stay the hell out of Ukraine!  These people deserve to chart their own course free of Russian or European interference!
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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2014, 01:31:21 PM »
I like this idea the Ukrainian protesters are using. They're holding up mirrors, forcing the goon squads to look at themselves all decked out like Robocop. I'd like to see it used here.

http://moonbattery.com/?p=41853

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Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2014, 02:06:30 PM »
I like this idea the Ukrainian protesters are using. They're holding up mirrors, forcing the goon squads to look at themselves all decked out like Robocop. I'd like to see it used here.


I like that too.

I recently saw pictures of religious men (priests maybe? I don't know what religion is in the Ukraine) standing between the protesters and the enforcement squads.
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Offline oldcoastie6468

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2014, 02:55:15 PM »
And so goes the world today........  :'(
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Offline richb

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2014, 09:48:37 PM »
The Soviet Union may have gone down,  but the world is not becoming a freer place. 

There is that saying,  "the new boss,  just like the old boss".    I think it fits the bill well.

Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2014, 07:38:55 AM »
I like this idea the Ukrainian protesters are using. They're holding up mirrors, forcing the goon squads to look at themselves all decked out like Robocop. I'd like to see it used here.


I like that too.

I recently saw pictures of religious men (priests maybe? I don't know what religion is in the Ukraine) standing between the protesters and the enforcement squads.

The mirror thing is nice.  And as to religion I believe Orthodox of one flavor or another is predominate, but there is a large atheist contingent, no doubt due to decades of Soviet iron-fisted Marxist rule.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2014, 08:29:32 AM »
The home of my paternal ancestors looks to be going full BITS and I fear my prediction of a Russian intervention may be increasing exponentially. 

Lviv seems to be becoming the epicenter of the rebellion against the Russian-backed central government.  No surprise, being Lviv is in the western half of the nation geographically as well as in ethnicity and philosophy.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-18/ukraine-slide-accelerates-ag-office-seized-criminal-files-being-set-fire-us-hold-gov

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-18/how-ukrainian-protesters-attack-armored-personnel-carrier

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-19/ukraine-region-declares-independence-sending-dollar-bonds-record-low-russian-ruble-t

Weapons cache seized!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-19/ukraine-military-reveals-protesters-stole-weapons-cache-guilty-terrorist-acts

Russia - stay out and shut up!
EU & US - shut up, let Ukrainian people establish an independent Ukraine free of either of you jackasses!

ETA - Ukraine military given the green light (no doubt endorsed by Vladi!) to use "terrorist" cause as the justification to unleash military force upon its own citizens.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-19/it-begins-ukraine-army-given-power-use-weapons-civilians-live-feed

Sick, sad...tragic.  This is oh so wrong.  Pray for the people, and may the murderers not escape judgement!   ::praying::

It's 2014 around the whole globe, not just here...somebody explain to me it just cannot and will not ever happen here?!
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 12:31:46 PM by Libertas »
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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2014, 02:25:26 PM »
Interestingly enough, I just read a site last night about the secret tunnels under Odessa.  There's something like 2,500 km of catacombs and tunnels under the Odessa area, built over the centuries. Partisans hid in them during WWII and remained a thorn in the German and Romanian side for the duration of the occupation. They could never eradicate them from the tunnels.

So if Ivan wants to throw his weight around on Ukraine, against the desires of the people there, they can make it very unpleasant for a very long time. I'm also now consciously calling it "Ukraine" rather than "the Ukraine".  Putting "the" in front just plays to Russian notions that it is a region of Greater Russia rather than its own independent, sovereign nation.

I wish those people luck. I get wanting to be out from under the Russian thumb, but the way of the EU will just see their sovereignty taken by the globalists instead.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2014, 07:13:07 AM »
Yeah, it's hairy over there.  Done wore myself out yesterday arguing with Russia-lovers at ZH, they got a lot of morons over there who get a woody over strongman Vladi, and other who just find it convenient to be pro-Russia cause by proxy it gives the stink-finger to our idiot MommaJeans.  People are actually deluded into thinking Ukrainians like Russia.  Maybe the Eastern half that has always been more ethnically and philosophically tied to those mongrels, not so the Western half...the people there like speaking Ukrainian, remember the oppression of the Russians and the Germans, but the Germans were at least outsiders, being treated like second class citizens by fellow Slav's stung deep.  It is like comparing the Russians of St.Petersburg to the rabble in Moscow.  One looks west, the other east.  Same as it ever was.

Now they got this truce.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-19/ukraine-government-opposition-truce-announced

Seriously, I don't know what the opposition has to gain here?  Unless they are using the break to consolidate thier positions and arm up...how do you deal honestly with these coorrupt clowns?  How can you check Russian agents with stacks of cash that are no doubt in-country making sure their people emerge with power and it's business as usual?  How do you trust these thugs?

I would have kept the pressure on, made them go all-in or cave, if they go all-in we could see sympathy swing over to the opposition, if they cave maybe they can purge the deadwood.

This is not over yet.

ETA - Shyt, that didn't take long!

Looks like Putin's bag men got to the corrupt and paid them off, 20 dead peons and just one dead stormtrooper?  Sounds like a planned restart of hostilities on Yanukovych's part, despite what lies that snake spres out his filthy face!

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/20/world/europe/ukraine-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

"They were shot directly to their hearts, their brain and to their neck," she said.

Yeah, the opposition started it!  Right!

Orders from Moscow - Crush them!

Now, death toll up to 51, 39 civilians and 12 goons.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/20/us-ukraine-idUSBREA1G0OU20140220

I hope the opposition provisioned well during the break!
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 07:36:57 AM by Libertas »
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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2014, 10:46:27 AM »
Yeah Infowars has been in that reflexive pro-Russia mode regarding the situation in Ukraine. They're similar to the ZeroHedge crowd in that regard. I guess it's a PaulBot thing.

There's a lot of truth in the stuff you get from Infowars, ZH, and the like, but it's like come on you tards -- not everything has to dovetail neatly into the Global Bankster Hegemony concept.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2014, 11:02:18 AM »
There was a posting baout Ron Paul today saying both US/EU and Russia need to butt out.  That last part gets lost in the din of basking in the glory of the strong anti-US/anti-EU my-shyt-dont-stink leader-without-peer sitting in the Kremlin.  I'll remind them of their apostasy against St Ronald the Just when the Russians intervene in a direct manner.

Interesting, the ZH site getting a lot of hits today, and it went down here a bit ago for several minutes.  I guess it could have been anyone up to no good!

ETA - EU imposes sanctions.  The Zeroheaders who love Putin (there just has to be a narcotic in his sperm!) still cannot get it through their thick skulls that Rooskies should not be there meddling either...even when you throw RP's words at them, they just refuse to get over their Rooskie-worship.  Fricken bizzare!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-20/european-union-commits-sanctions-against-ukraine

Hearing rumors that high level rats in the Yanukovych regime are fleeing.  Could be the Russian game is to buy a new nest of rats to replace the old ones, hold elections and hope the stupid anti-Russian opposition types don't notice and maybe the ones that do notice disappear mysteriously.  SOS!  Same Old Shyt!

« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 02:13:50 PM by Libertas »
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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2014, 04:04:21 PM »
Van der Leun's headline ...

"Consequences, Schmonsequences: Gelding In Chief Reminds World He Has a 2-Inch Penis"

 ::laughonfloor::

Quote
“There will be consequences if people step over the line,” Obama said shortly after landing in Mexico for a summit with the leaders of Mexico and Canada, as fires burned in central Kiev. Obama threatens consequences for Ukraine violence Yeah, right. Next.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Photos at  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26257542  -- also courtesy of Van der Leun's link.

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2014, 04:35:05 PM »
Quote
“There will be consequences if people step over the line,” Obama said


LOL.  Yes.  Might that be a red line?
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