It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => World/Foreign Affairs => Topic started by: richb on March 08, 2014, 04:17:47 PM
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Of course its not one of the lamestream media sources. Not even Fox News.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/08/u-s-investigating-terror-concerns-in-case-of-missing-malaysian-jet/ (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/08/u-s-investigating-terror-concerns-in-case-of-missing-malaysian-jet/)
I think the religion of peace has struck again................
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Going down without so much as a "mayday" or "Oh SHYT!" is a pretty good indication.
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“He deposited it with rental car agency...
Uhhhh....................
Please explain THIS to me.
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hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
curious
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Going down without so much as a "mayday" or "Oh SHYT!" is a pretty good indication.
Yeah, the last time that happened was the Pan Am flight over Lockerbie. Without any sort of distress transmission, you're pretty much looking at sudden catastrophic destruction of the aircraft, i.e. a bomb.
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Plus I wonder if there was any significance to this plane traveling to Beijing and carrying mostly Chinese passengers. China has increasingly become a target of the jihadis, particularly for the issue of their Uighur minority in western China.
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And the stolen passports from Thailand (up to a year and a half ago, and Coastie deposits like that are not unusual practice for hotels and and other vendors, more reliable than monetary deposits and easier to trace), this thing reeks of the Cult of Death.
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Plus I wonder if there was any significance to this plane traveling to Beijing and carrying mostly Chinese passengers. China has increasingly become a target of the jihadis, particularly for the issue of their Uighur minority in western China.
FROM Malaysia, now a Muslim country. A Muslim craphole where it's apparently kind of common to fly on stolen passports.
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Is it odd no one's taken responsibility?
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Is it odd no one's taken responsibility?
My thoughts exactly.
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Is it odd no one's taken responsibility?
Yeah, that's the one thing that makes me question an islamofascist connection. Those clods always want credit for their handiwork. This scenario, if it does turn out to be an explosion related disaster, smells more like the state-sponsored variety. In other words...done by professionals who try to leave no trace and do not want credit for obvious reasons. That would make it similar to the Lockerbie bombing.
The lack of a debris field suggests no explosion, though.
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The lack of a debris field could mean the pilot had to ditch, but it doesn't mean there wasn't some sort of explosion that caused it to go down but not severe enough an explosion to leave a lot of debris...the ocean is big and nothing bigger than the Pacific and a small debris field could be missed if searchers are looking for something large. Once ditching there had to be enough damage from an explosion and subsequent damage from the crash to suck the entire mass to the briney deep. If so then it still could be Musloid related, or perhaps Musloids used to do the deed and the promise to give proper credit was withheld by the handlers. And if Uighur sponsored that could explain the silence...not all crazies like to advertise the fact, not to totalitarian regimes, soft western progressive fools, yes, they love shoving it in their faces...not convinced that is a good tactic to use on the Chi-Com's.
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And the stolen passports from Thailand (up to a year and a half ago, and Coastie deposits like that are not unusual practice for hotels and and other vendors, more reliable than monetary deposits and easier to trace), this thing reeks of the Cult of Death.
Why would anyone give up his or her passport? It'd be needed if things went sour in the country in which you were located. Without it you'd end up in a hellhole jail.
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And the stolen passports from Thailand (up to a year and a half ago, and Coastie deposits like that are not unusual practice for hotels and and other vendors, more reliable than monetary deposits and easier to trace), this thing reeks of the Cult of Death.
Why would anyone give up his or her passport? It'd be needed if things went sour in the country in which you were located. Without it you'd end up in a hellhole jail.
Standard practice for foreigners visiting, unless you are wealthy. I wouldn't be surprised if those who pinched the passports were employees or befriended an employee.
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I'd be interested in the radar images. When Pan Am 103 went down, the radar operators noticed the single radar return changed into multiple reflections that spread out over an approx. 11 mile area. That was the airborne debris they were picking up, consistent with a midair explosion.
It's hard to believe they don't know where this plane went. It was fairly close to land and should have been on radar.
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Standard practice for foreigners visiting, unless you are wealthy. I wouldn't be surprised if those who pinched the passports were employees or befriended an employee.
We didn't have to do that in Ireland.
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Is it odd no one's taken responsibility?
Could have been a loner with no Al Qada connection. Nidal Malik Hasan comes to mind.
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I'd be interested in the radar images. When Pan Am 103 went down, the radar operators noticed the single radar return changed into multiple reflections that spread out over an approx. 11 mile area. That was the airborne debris they were picking up, consistent with a midair explosion.
It's hard to believe they don't know where this plane went. It was fairly close to land and should have been on radar.
First of all...there is a LOT that we simply do not know.
What we do "know" is not necessarily really known. For instance, we know that there is no debris field. Yet. It is entirely possible that we will find one tomorrow. Or the next day. It's been a long time but I don't think they found debris from that Air France crash for several days and they pretty much knew where it went down. In this case (one of the things we don't know) is where the plane went down. It could have gone down along its planned flight path or it could have gone down somewhere else...perhaps a hundred miles or more along some other vector.
We know that there were people aboard the plane who were traveling under names that were not their own. But what we don't know (yet) is whether or not they might have had terrorist-type (muslim) leanings.
We do actually know that there was zero indication of a problem prior to the plane's disappearance. We also know (or at least I think we do) that this particular plane had a transponder which sent its flight data (altitude, speed, direction of flight) out a couple of times a second. However, it is my understanding that the transponder had a limited transmission distance...something like 150 to 200 miles depending on altitude. This is (and again, according to my understanding) the reason that the plane vanished from the internet tracking sites when they did...because it had exceeded the distance that the transponder could transmit to the nearest (land based) receiver.
I have heard (unconfirmed) that spy satellites saw nothing as regards the flight. I have no expert knowledge of any kind regarding that type of technology so that, for me, is a big huge unknown.
I am going to say that maybe we will "know" a bit more in another day or two. Or not. Because that's an unknown, too.
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I am in the "they have to know something more" camp, maybe they are just not saying so on purpose, but come on, they have to know which direction the damned thing went as it left the airport? Who are in these control centers? Babboons?
(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2014/03/10/0310-web-flight/5c1f4d7c282dd929b57fb5c7d8f3b008fedd6e7c/0310-web-flight-bathymetry4-ai2html_600.png)
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/11/world/asia/hunt-for-missing-malaysian-jet.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/11/world/asia/hunt-for-missing-malaysian-jet.html?_r=0)
40 minutes of flight time isn't that long, and if the plane did not continue its expected flight path over the Gulf of Thailand then there is the disturbing possibility that some aircrew and perhaps some passengers took control of the plane and diverted it elsewhere, by the time authorities began to suspect something wrong and respond the plane could be hundreds of miles away by then any search could be pointless. If they did turn west and head out over the Andaman Sea (there is some evidence from the Vietnam radar hit that suggests it may have been turning that direction when the signal was lost) they could be anywhere in the Indian Ocean.
I am just adding more speculation though. This does have the hallmark of one of the great mysteries of airflight though, and a certain amount of speculation is to be expected.
These 5 that checked in but did not board, whats up with that? Who are they? Where are they?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2577185/Missing-Malaysia-flight-Probe-5-passengers-checked-never-boarded.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2577185/Missing-Malaysia-flight-Probe-5-passengers-checked-never-boarded.html)
I will confine my speculation to the reasonable, and try not to fly of the handle like some people (http://www.fastcompany.com/3027462/fast-feed/with-malaysia-airlines-flight-370-still-missing-conspiracy-theories-flood-the-inte) and just pull stuff out of my behind!
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Am I just completely crazy or has anyone else thought that this plane might be stolen to be used at a later date for some terrorist act ?? ::popcorn::
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Who are in these control centers? Babboons?
This is Malaysia we're talking about.
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Who are in these control centers? Babboons?
This is Malaysia we're talking about.
Thanks for making the point!
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Am I just completely crazy or has anyone else thought that this plane might be stolen to be used at a later date for some terrorist act ?? ::popcorn::
Yes.
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It's certainly entered my mind.
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Am I just completely crazy or has anyone else thought that this plane might be stolen to be used at a later date for some terrorist act ?? ::popcorn::
There is a good possibility of that.
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Am I just completely crazy or has anyone else thought that this plane might be stolen to be used at a later date for some terrorist act ?? ::popcorn::
There is a good possibility of that.
Given that the passenger phones are still ringing and are still connected to social media.. there is a good chance everyone on board was execute. Of course that also means that they should be able to locate the plane simply based on which base stations those phones are logged in to . Like not using the bloodhound in Boston to find the 17 year old wounded kid, this smacks of deliberate incompetence.
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Could one of the musloid states be cooperating in this hypothetical endeavor? Malaysia, Indonesia, or given the range of the aircraft even Iran or Pock-ee-stahn. Yeah, a bit of a wild theory but at this point it seems about as plausible as any. If there was state cooperation, then a lot of the mysterious circumstances (lack of locator beacon, radar tracking, satellite transponder, etc) become rather less mysterious.
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OK, somebody more tach-savvy than I needs to interpret this for me. Been hearing about dangerous design features in electronic systems and everything points to this warning -
https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2013/11/18/2013-27343/special-conditions-boeing-model-777-200--300-and--300er-series-airplanes-aircraft-electronic-system (https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2013/11/18/2013-27343/special-conditions-boeing-model-777-200--300-and--300er-series-airplanes-aircraft-electronic-system)
Are they saying it might be possible for someone to use a computer to take over the airplane, or enough of it to mess it up?
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Are they saying it might be possible for someone to use a computer to take over the airplane, or enough of it to mess it up?
Ever Watch the reboot of BattleStar Galactica? Remember how all of the computers were isolated and communicated by sneaker net so that if a system on board were compromised by the Cylons, it couldn't spread and infect the other systems? Yeah, now imagine that you didn't do that, and that the Cylons were in a cargo hold with a network connection to the systems in the "safe" area of the ship.... the way I read this, they used one netowkr for both the passengers and the plane's control systems. So yeah, if there is a vulnerability in the software or firmware than can be exploited, a passenger (or cleaning crew) can board the plane, load a bit of code from a passenger seat, and depending on the vulnerability do anything from screw up the TVs and coffee makers to give them full control of the plane.
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Are they saying it might be possible for someone to use a computer to take over the airplane, or enough of it to mess it up?
Ever Watch the reboot of BattleStar Galactica? Remember how all of the computers were isolated and communicated by sneaker net so that if a system on board were compromised by the Cylons, it couldn't spread and infect the other systems? Yeah, now imagine that you didn't do that, and that the Cylons were in a cargo hold with a network connection to the systems in the "safe" area of the ship.... the way I read this, they used one netowkr for both the passengers and the plane's control systems. So yeah, if there is a vulnerability in the software or firmware than can be exploited, a passenger (or cleaning crew) can board the plane, load a bit of code from a passenger seat, and depending on the vulnerability do anything from screw up the TVs and coffee makers to give them full control of the plane.
If true, will there not be massive lawsuits against Boeing that may prove to be the beginning of the end for them? Maybe they were the target all along, this poor bunch on this flight just drew the short straw and didn't know it...maybe Airbus was behind this.
If I find out Soros bought into a shytload of Airbus stock recently I guess that would be one form of proof.
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If anything I would say Airbus is even more vulnerable to such things, considering their design philosophy emphasizes automated normalization of pilot commands.
But really just about everything is theoretically vulnerable. I think we are going to see a lot of evidence over the next 10 years that the "smart" movement is anything but. And what is this obsession about interconnecting everything? I know, it's a rhetorical question. They want the total surveillance state to finally become a reality. The Panopticon. But it's like they watched The Terminator for ideas rather than as a cautionary tale.
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But it's like they watched The Terminator for ideas rather than as a cautionary tale.
We could say that, and have, about any similar publication; they take 'em as instruction manuals.
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Possible hoax report -
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/12/oil-rig-worker-says-he-saw-missing-plane-go-down-r/ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/12/oil-rig-worker-says-he-saw-missing-plane-go-down-r/)
Vung Tau is S/SE of Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon), well beyond the last official track of Flight 370, but in line with the compass bearing of this guys report, should be easy enough to extend a search eastward and see if there is any wreckage in that area. Can't imagine why somebody would hoax a sighting like that. Oil rig workers have to make out pretty well even in that area, eh? Can't see money for a story being a great motivator. I guess time will tell.
And then there is the westward possibility, which for someone wanting to disappear a plane makes more sense...the Indian Ocean being vast and empty once you pass the Andaman Sea.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/13/world/asia/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-370.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/13/world/asia/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-370.html?_r=0)
That somebody can hack into a planes system, disable its transponder and do whatever is more than unsettling. That something that large can just disappear in this day and age seems improbable. How long did it take to find that Airbus that went down in the south Atlantic? Long time wasn't it?
Guess we wait some more with this one.
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I think the Air France flight that went down in the middle of the Atlantic was at least transmitting telemetry data though wasn't it? And it seems like it was only a day or two later that the Brazilian navy found part of the tailplane floating at sea.
This one is just beyond bizarre. I thought the airlines in this day and age used satellite tracking of their aircraft, and that's in addition to all the conventional radar and radio tracking used by the air controllers. I know the ocean is a vast and featureless place, but you would think there'd be something, an oil slick or small debris.
Wasn't there a movie in the 80s about an airliner that got abducted in midflight by aliens?
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Myabe I projecting the lag between official finding onto the wreckage discovery for Air France, but I think there was a longer contact with the plane than we have here.
And I am also surprised something cannot be found here...it's almost like there is tracking info and wreckage info not being shared...or the locals really are that incompetent.
And I still don't know about that roughneck sighting off Vietnam, that one has to be easily verified by other eye witness accounts or debris.
If nothing is ever found, the guys at MUFON will probably chock it up to aliens.
I don't know about a movie, there was this in the late 80s (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097883/), but in the real world it didn't take long for some truther to raise the alien abduction question (http://nationalreport.net/aliens-abduct-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370/) in this case.
::facepalm::
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Myabe I projecting the lag between official finding onto the wreckage discovery for Air France, but I think there was a longer contact with the plane than we have here.
And I am also surprised something cannot be found here...it's almost like there is tracking info and wreckage info not being shared...or the locals really are that incompetent.
And I still don't know about that roughneck sighting off Vietnam, that one has to be easily verified by other eye witness accounts or debris.
If nothing is ever found, the guys at MUFON will probably chock it up to aliens.
I don't know about a movie, there was this in the late 80s (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097883/), but in the real world it didn't take long for some truther to raise the alien abduction question (http://nationalreport.net/aliens-abduct-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370/) in this case.
::facepalm::
I remember that movie. They were not aliens they were time travelers from a future where their DNA was corrupted of something like that and they were traveling back in time to known disasters and saving the people that would have died and replacing them with bodies with appropriate DNA.
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FYI - FWIW I swear I heard someone involved in the Air France crash say there was a two year interval between lost and found.
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Am I just completely crazy or has anyone else thought that this plane might be stolen to be used at a later date for some terrorist act ?? ::popcorn::
You have stated my very own fear.
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FYI - FWIW I swear I heard someone involved in the Air France crash say there was a two year interval between lost and found.
I think the two year lag was finding the bulk of the wreckage at the bottom. It crashed in very deep water, over 15,000 feet. But they found the floating wreckage the next day. That's what is so mysterious about this latest incident. If it had crashed at sea, there should be some kind of floating debris, a fuel slick, something.
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The television hit series ‘Lost’ was first produced in 2004. Now, ten years later, it is actually happening in real life. How incredible that these writers were so visionary and prophetic!
I don’t know why there is all this mystery though. All you have to do is skip to the end of the book, or in this case, skip to the end of the series, and find out how it ends.
It’s already there. Why the mystery!
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Am I just completely crazy or has anyone else thought that this plane might be stolen to be used at a later date for some terrorist act ?? ::popcorn::
You have stated my very own fear.
Yeah, but you can buy a plane and spare yourself the publicity of having the entire world looking for you. And if you are a state sponsor then you already have planes.
Here's the deal: Let's assume one of the worst possible scenarios...
Terrorists steal plane and either kill all the passengers or confine them until...they can load a ABC weapon onboard. Then they either fly ABC laden plane with or without hostages (without sure seems easier which would make me believe they just kill them at the outset) to the target. Target in this area of the world depends on who took the plane. If Pakistan then target is India. If Uighurs (highly unlikely) then China. If Iran then Israel. Doesn't matter because weapon residue will pretty much finger the perpetrator. Then perp gets a return letter in the mail from victim. That's the whole mutually assured destruction thing. Drop a nuke, however delivered, on Israel and the perp will get annihilated in return. Same with the USA. Same with China. Same with Russia. Same with just about anyone.
SO....if you are hell bent on delivering a nuke or biological or chemical weapon via airliner you may as well paint your country's name on the side because the origin will be discovered and retribution will be forthcoming. Stealing a plane to carry out a terrorist attack doesn't end well for the sender. Consider Afghanistan after 9/11...we have killed thousands of them to every one that we lost and they didn't use a nuke against us. If they had, well...I'm guessing that GWB would have had the stones to return the favor. BO? Probably not but you never know.
Plus there is the time factor. If you are going to use this plane it needs to be done quickly. You can't keep it hidden forever unless it is on the bottom of the ocean. Planes are too big to hide and they have to be in the vicinity of an airstrip big enough to land and take off. Plus 200+ corpses are hard to hide.
The hijack the plane to use as a delivery system theory while interesting seems pretty far fetched to me. There are just easier ways* to get the job done without drawing so much attention to yourself. On the other hand, it could be a distraction to divert attention from something else that needs to escape detection somewhere else in the world. It certainly has a big share of intelligence assets pointed at it right now.
One other thing...it could be a plan to attack the air travel industry in general. That was one of the effects of 9/11...loss of confidence that took some time to recover. I personally would never travel somewhere that is likely to employ muslim airline pilots but that's me. If that notion became more common...
*A nuke in a shipping container seems most likely. The US has radiation detectors at the ports but they have to unload the cargo to inspect. The thing about a nuke is that, like horseshoes, you only have to be close. Who wants a nuke going off in their port? No one. But if one did go off in a port then overseas shipping is instantly crippled along with the world economy. Seriously, how far up the Mississippi river could a shipping container go before it was inspected? You can get a big ship pretty close to Houston before its unloaded. Any eastern seaboard port. Any western port. Doesn't matter. Just has to be close.
And, for that matter, thanks to incredibly lax border security it couldn't be too difficult to deliver something across the southern border. Drug cartels do it all the time.
So, no...I just don't see the need to go to the trouble of stealing a plane to deliver a terror strike. Too many other ways to get the job done in the global economy.
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We know that Malaysia is a musloid country, and the pilot was evidently "very active" in his mosque. I just wonder if he decided his personal part of jihad would be on behalf of musloid brethren in Xinjiang by taking out a Beijing-bound flight full of mostly Chinese passengers.
Remember that Egyptian airliner that went down in the Atlantic, and the cockpit voice recorder indicated it was basically an act of suicide by the pilot? It was a controversial revelation and the Egyptians disputed it, citing among other things that suicide is un-Islamic (though tons of them haven't gotten the message). Maybe something similar happened here?
Now they're saying some of the transponder functions were deliberately turned off, that the plane turned west out toward the Indian Ocean and continued to fly for about 6 hours in that direction. What is out there? Where was the pilot going, or trying to go? This is one of the most bizarre mysteries in modern aviation.
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Well, if it has gone down in the water there has been zero debris found to date. That situation could change at any moment, though. The area over water where the plane could have gone down has gotten hugely bigger. I'm also thinking that there is a locator beacon that activates when it hits water. No beacon.
So, for now, one has to assume that it is on land. If there is coordination involved they have had a week now to hide it.
I suppose it could have crashed without enough fuel to cause a fire. Seems unlikely, though.
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We know that Malaysia is a musloid country, and the pilot was evidently "very active" in his mosque. I just wonder if he decided his personal part of jihad would be on behalf of musloid brethren in Xinjiang by taking out a Beijing-bound flight full of mostly Chinese passengers.
Remember that Egyptian airliner that went down in the Atlantic, and the cockpit voice recorder indicated it was basically an act of suicide by the pilot? It was a controversial revelation and the Egyptians disputed it, citing among other things that suicide is un-Islamic (though tons of them haven't gotten the message). Maybe something similar happened here?
Now they're saying some of the transponder functions were deliberately turned off, that the plane turned west out toward the Indian Ocean and continued to fly for about 6 hours in that direction. What is out there? Where was the pilot going, or trying to go? This is one of the most bizarre mysteries in modern aviation.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/16/article-2581817-1C56DB9E00000578-105_964x699.jpg)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2581817/Doomed-airliner-pilot-political-fanatic-Hours-taking-control-flight-MH370-attended-trial-jailed-opposition-leader-sodomite.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2581817/Doomed-airliner-pilot-political-fanatic-Hours-taking-control-flight-MH370-attended-trial-jailed-opposition-leader-sodomite.html)
Sounds like a Muzzie distraught over his hero Ibrahim. So, the pilot was in on it from the start. His family conveniently bailed the previous day. Find where they are and you find where he is. If they survived their landing (and it sounds like they may have) then it has to be a Muzzie haven. Explains how the transponder could be turned off too.
Well, you get on a plane with Muzzie crew and crap like this has to be expected, anybody not taking that seriously is a moron.
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Could it have made it all the way across the Indian Ocean to somewhere like Somalia? Iran maybe?
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Could it have made it all the way across the Indian Ocean to somewhere like Somalia? Iran maybe?
It should have been fully loaded, original destination Beijing, right? So yeah, it could have made it that far, but it would have had to avoid traffic like our warships patrolling the region. If they did that then they had to have had help in knowing where those ships were or were likely to be to avoid detection. They seem to be thinking it still may have went down, that there may have been some sort of dispute in the cabin, but the co-pilot has a Muzzie name too, so, I don't know about that. But if they flew low and juked too much they could have burned fuel a lot faster and forced to ditch because of that. Plus, the idiot could have changed the destination from terrestrial to eternal.
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Avionics guy. (http://thesilicongraybeard.blogspot.com/2014/03/mh370-this-one-is-puzzling.html)
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Yeah, disabling redundant systems can't be done without more conspirators, and since it has to act like a happy plane off the tarmac it means some sort of kill switch device had to be installed to stop all transmissions, even emergency ones.
It is strange, but only a wider conspiracy or abduction by the grays explains it, eh?
I'll go with conspiracy.
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That's what I've found most mysterious about the whole thing, the lack of normal telemetry. A lot of that stuff is embedded into the systems and can't just be turned off even if the pilot wanted to, so if they were indeed disabled it does point to wider involvement.
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It may take a while (years because that's the speed of governments) but I would say that it is very likely that all airliners (passenger and cargo) will eventually be required to have tamper proof transponders...something that can only be accessed by lifting the hood when the plane is on the ground and stopped. I can think of no reason why a pilot or anyone else in the cabin should ever need to disable one.
Different issue: The plane is supposed to be able to fly 7+ hours with a full load of fuel depending on altitude, speed, head or tail winds, number of ascents and descents, etc. However, it is my understanding after reading a few pages of this forum (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost.html) that planes are usually fueled for the anticipated trip plus a little more in case of trouble. In other words, they almost never top off the tank. But...this being Malaysia, there are no records and no one knows how much fuel the plane had. So...I'm not sure that any conclusions can be made regarding how far the plane could have flown. As regards Somalia, someone on the pilot forum said that Somalia would be on the very extreme edge of the plane's operating range if fully fueled so that kind of seems unlikely. Unless refueling is involved. And if it is then there would be other possibilities for destinations that would have to be considered.
Yet another issue: Assume a hijack. There are only three possibilities. 1) The crew...one or both pilots...is responsible, 2) A passenger or...more likely...several passengers are responsible or 3) Both crew and passengers are responsible. Any other possibilities require science fiction or magic. I don't know what investigators have found regarding crew and passengers. I know of some things, sort of, if you can believe everything printed by the media...such as regards the Iranians with fake passports or that the pilot had a homemade flight simulator at his house and that his wife and kids left the day before the flight. I say that I think I know these things because they come from the media and the media is frequently a source of incorrect information. But...what I said about the hijack possibilities is based on reasoning rather than data and I don't see any problems with it. So, that said, sooner or later the investigators will turn up some clues about the crew and/or passengers that may reveal a means and a motive for what happened. It could be a very long time depending on who the investigators are but mysteries want to be solved so it should be forthcoming at some point.
One more point regarding hijacking: Motive possibilities. 1) Hostage taking for ransom, 2) Hostage taking for terrorism, 3) Plane stealing for terrorism (i.e. weapon delivery system), 4) Pilot or copilot suicide, 5) Political statement by unknown persons for unknown reasons, 6) Something else because...crazy. There could also be something else that isn't crazy but crazy has to be on the table. I'm not including suicide as part of "crazy" because it is a whole different subset of "crazy." Crazy can include all sorts of irrational reasons that don't occur to us because we are not insane. But I can't think of any other reasons to hijack a plane.
If a debris field at sea doesn't emerge within the next week or so then the thing had to go down on land. Somewhere. And short of the thing being completely disassembled and buried it should be found. Wreckage or intact, if it isn't on the bottom of the ocean it will eventually turn up.
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It may take a while (years because that's the speed of governments) but I would say that it is very likely that all airliners (passenger and cargo) will eventually be required to have tamper proof transponders...something that can only be accessed by lifting the hood when the plane is on the ground and stopped. I can think of no reason why a pilot or anyone else in the cabin should ever need to disable one.
Different issue: The plane is supposed to be able to fly 7+ hours with a full load of fuel depending on altitude, speed, head or tail winds, number of ascents and descents, etc. However, it is my understanding after reading a few pages of this forum (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost.html) that planes are usually fueled for the anticipated trip plus a little more in case of trouble. In other words, they almost never top off the tank. But...this being Malaysia, there are no records and no one knows how much fuel the plane had. So...I'm not sure that any conclusions can be made regarding how far the plane could have flown. As regards Somalia, someone on the pilot forum said that Somalia would be on the very extreme edge of the plane's operating range if fully fueled so that kind of seems unlikely. Unless refueling is involved. And if it is then there would be other possibilities for destinations that would have to be considered.
Yet another issue: Assume a hijack. There are only three possibilities. 1) The crew...one or both pilots...is responsible, 2) A passenger or...more likely...several passengers are responsible or 3) Both crew and passengers are responsible. Any other possibilities require science fiction or magic. I don't know what investigators have found regarding crew and passengers. I know of some things, sort of, if you can believe everything printed by the media...such as regards the Iranians with fake passports or that the pilot had a homemade flight simulator at his house and that his wife and kids left the day before the flight. I say that I think I know these things because they come from the media and the media is frequently a source of incorrect information. But...what I said about the hijack possibilities is based on reasoning rather than data and I don't see any problems with it. So, that said, sooner or later the investigators will turn up some clues about the crew and/or passengers that may reveal a means and a motive for what happened. It could be a very long time depending on who the investigators are but mysteries want to be solved so it should be forthcoming at some point.
One more point regarding hijacking: Motive possibilities. 1) Hostage taking for ransom, 2) Hostage taking for terrorism, 3) Plane stealing for terrorism (i.e. weapon delivery system), 4) Pilot or copilot suicide, 7) Political statement by unknown persons for unknown reasons, 6) Something else because...crazy. There could also be something else that isn't crazy but crazy has to be on the table. I'm not including suicide as part of "crazy" because it is a whole different subset of "crazy." Crazy can include all sorts of irrational reasons that don't occur to us because we are not insane. But I can't think of any other reasons to hijack a plane.
If a debris field at sea doesn't emerge within the next week or so then the thing had to go down on land. Somewhere. And short of the thing being completely disassembled and buried it should be found. Wreckage or intact, if it isn't on the bottom of the ocean it will eventually turn up.
Good catch on the fuel, I forgot about that. And while Somalia or Iran might be long haul for a plane wanting to be invisible, for both those reasons I would think the destination may have been no farther than eastern India.
Nice forum catch too, Professional Pilots Rumor Netwrok...at least they announce there is some speculation, but speculation from pilots should be more germane in cases like this.
As for your items...
1 is possible, 2 less so, 3 I think is limited to short range possibility only (no way that thing gets armed up and flies anywhere near CONUS let alone Hawaii), 4 is possible and distrurbing (short of increased psych testing and banning Muzzies I don't know what else can be done), 5 is late in being announced so it might be off the table at this point, and 6 is definitely in play. And if the hijack angle is right and anybody outside the cockpit is involved, then the whole issue of cockpit security comes into play. Per the PPRN there are still ways into the cockpit for many planes and they are suggesting the armored car cockpit ala El Al, and I don't know if Malaysian outfits have Sky Marshalls or not (God forbid they are involved if they are present!) but more of those might be called for. Either way, nothing is free, increased prices will cover the added security measures.
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Crap, if true then the possibilities are more troubling...
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/breaking-malaysian-air-flight-mh370-could-have-flown-to-taliban-controlled-region-in-pakistan/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/breaking-malaysian-air-flight-mh370-could-have-flown-to-taliban-controlled-region-in-pakistan/)
(http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/pakistan-bases.gif)
(http://4-ps.googleusercontent.com/h/www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/507x368xdaily-mail-map.jpg.pagespeed.ic.UDUkThnJSa.jpg)
That little "military radar" is at our base in Diego Garcia we leased from the Limey's.
I think I trust the Kazak's to tell us the truth about radar contacts, the Pock-ee's not so much...what I would really like to know is if India ever had any unidentified traffic on any of their screens....I mean come on man, they have to fear flying Muzzies!
::whatgives::
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Interesting ..... (http://mh370shadow.com/post/79838944823/did-malaysian-airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68-sq68)
After looking at all the details, it is my opinion that MH370 snuck out of the Bay of Bengal using SIA68 as the perfect cover. It entered radar coverage already in the radar shadow of the other 777, stayed there throughout coverage, and then exited SIA68’s shadow and then most likely landed in one of several land locations north of India and Afghanistan.
H/T http://kaching.tumblr.com/ (http://kaching.tumblr.com/)
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Wow, that certainly is an elaborate hypothesis, but I wonder if the pilot in question is aware of and good enough to pull off a maneuver like this without being seen by any cross traffic or more sensitive military radars, such a flight path would be travelling a known commercial corridor.
There is some suggestion that the reason why some nations may not be forthcoming is to avoid disclosing vulnerabilities.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2583553/Thai-military-says-missing-flight-MH370-followed-twisting-path-Strait-Malacca.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2583553/Thai-military-says-missing-flight-MH370-followed-twisting-path-Strait-Malacca.html)
That is plausible.
Now, there are reports of a possible Maldives angle. But I don't know, that is a long haul and I don't know how contact with Diego Garcia and in/out-bound traffic factors in.
This link had a lot of speculation in it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10704769/Malaysian-Airlines-MH370-live.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10704769/Malaysian-Airlines-MH370-live.html)
I discount the Goodfellow report, too far fetched, and the pilot (ex-Navy and commercial pilot) Rush had on said the front wheel does not have a brake (makes sense) so how that caught fire would be a mystery. The fact that several IO spots were found in the pilots simulator programs is interesting, Sri Lanka intrigues me, but more speculation. Rush's guest applied Occam' Razor and said it appeared to him the turn was autopilot and could indicate that is when he sought to disable the co-pilot, and if that thing went vertical into the ocean as a struggle ensued in the cabin that little if anything would be (ever) found. That tracks with my memory of Navy fliers saying hitting the ocean would be like hitting concrete...nothing larger than a fingernail would be found. And the depressurization theory seems debunked too. I think this guys theory makes the most sense of all that I've heard.
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this is only getting weirder and weirder............
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My inclination is to believe that the plane crashed into the sea.
The lack of any physical evidence and no evidence of passenger or (if we are honest with ourselves) crew involvement is also compelling. Which is not to say that the crew didn't crash the plane. But there is no evidence of conspiratorial type stuff with the crew. I'm thinking that one of the crew went nuts and corkscrewed the thing into the ocean. That is, for me, the most likely explanation at this point.
It is, of course, entirely possible that the plane will be found on land but right now it's just not looking too likely.
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Sure looks that way Trap.
But for any willing to entertain the latest speculation...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2583807/Did-Malaysian-fisherman-missing-flight-MH370-flying-low-Gulf-Thailand.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2583807/Did-Malaysian-fisherman-missing-flight-MH370-flying-low-Gulf-Thailand.html)
And the BBC theories summarized at ZH -
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-18/did-missing-flight-mh370-land-maldives-or-diego-garcia-full-updated-summary (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-18/did-missing-flight-mh370-land-maldives-or-diego-garcia-full-updated-summary)
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I could be wrong, only time will tell, but I still believe that the plane is on the ground somewhere hidden.
Many say unlikely. If you look at 911, that was very unlikely as well but it happened.
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My inclination is to believe that the plane crashed into the sea.
The lack of any physical evidence and no evidence of passenger or (if we are honest with ourselves) crew involvement is also compelling. Which is not to say that the crew didn't crash the plane. But there is no evidence of conspiratorial type stuff with the crew. I'm thinking that one of the crew went nuts and corkscrewed the thing into the ocean. That is, for me, the most likely explanation at this point.
It is, of course, entirely possible that the plane will be found on land but right now it's just not looking too likely.
The 777 is equipped with an emergency transponder/beacon that is automatically activated if the aircraft ditches or crashes on land and it experiences a high g-load (crash level load). No beacon, no crash.
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I don't trust some of the countries supposedly helping. Pakistan knew where OBL was for years.
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Pakistan? Oh, right...what the Dear Leader calls Pock-eee-stonn.
Yeah, I think I'd trust a random crook on the street more than those clowns!
And I still say it is in the drink somewhere.
Regarding emergency transmitters...
In terms of finding the aircraft, if it crashed in the middle of the South China Sea, any emergency transmitters on board would emit frequencies that travel well through the air but not very well through water. The black boxes emit a sound signal that travels well under water but the distance the sound travels is also limited when you consider the vastness of the South China Sea.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2014/03/10/why-cant-the-malaysian-air-boeing-777-be-found/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2014/03/10/why-cant-the-malaysian-air-boeing-777-be-found/)
Then again, maybe BFH stumbled into the answer...
(http://iowntheworld.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/image.jpeg)
http://iowntheworld.com/blog/?p=229310 (http://iowntheworld.com/blog/?p=229310)
Heh! We needed a humor break.
Back to serious business.
Another question - most of these passengers are Chinese...what are they doing? Or do they not care since they got plenty more where they came from? Silence from Beijing is deafening.
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China? Hmmm. Saw an article where one Chinese woman was complaining about the lack of info from the government and was threatening a hunger strike. Not sure how that would do anything. But I tend to think the Chinese wouldn't share anything sooo if they were the target I don't think they'd tell us.
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We should all be able to rest a little easier now. Courtney Love, singer of the band "Hole", and wife of dead Nirvana frontman Kurt Cobain, has found the missing Malaysian airplane on Google Earth.
"Hole" singer Courtney Love Cobain finds missing plane (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/courtney-love-claims-to-have-found-missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-9198965.html)
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::laughonfloor:: ::laughonfloor:: ::laughonfloor::
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yea...well....
who is gonna find Love?
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We should all be able to rest a little easier now. Courtney Love, singer of the band "Hole", and wife of dead Nirvana frontman Kurt Cobain, has found the missing Malaysian airplane on Google Earth.
"Hole" singer Courtney Love Cobain finds missing plane (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/courtney-love-claims-to-have-found-missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-9198965.html)
I'll refrain from any sophomoric humor, even though it's sooo appropriate.
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We should all be able to rest a little easier now. Courtney Love, singer of the band "Hole", and wife of dead Nirvana frontman Kurt Cobain, has found the missing Malaysian airplane on Google Earth.
"Hole" singer Courtney Love Cobain finds missing plane (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/courtney-love-claims-to-have-found-missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-9198965.html)
I'll refrain from any sophomoric humor, even though it's sooo appropriate.
She is the "A" hole.
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Might have found debris (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jhlUODnAGEe_sIdC-9vDvTQqg0sg?docId=7d65ce7c-468e-4d49-8b8d-26657d9dd509) off the coast of Australia.
Don Lemon and CNN (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnns-don-lemon-is-it-preposterous-to-think-a-black-hole-caused-flight-370-to-go-missing/) hardest hit.
More info here. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2584816/Search-area-missing-jet-dramatically-narrowed-US-officials-hone-satellite-signals-engine.html)
I'm guessing this will be a headline on Drudge shortly.
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Might have found debris (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jhlUODnAGEe_sIdC-9vDvTQqg0sg?docId=7d65ce7c-468e-4d49-8b8d-26657d9dd509) off the coast of Australia.
Don Lemon and CNN (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnns-don-lemon-is-it-preposterous-to-think-a-black-hole-caused-flight-370-to-go-missing/) hardest hit.
More info here. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2584816/Search-area-missing-jet-dramatically-narrowed-US-officials-hone-satellite-signals-engine.html)
I'm guessing this will be a headline on Drudge shortly.
Almost looks like a small boat or maybe a raft, but if that scale is correct 20m is not a small chunk.
The area -
(http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/CSOzK7DogGPyuLqwgG9Y_Q--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTgwMDtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz0xNDIy/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/c15677172100f50b4e0f6a7067005e9b.jpg)
http://news.yahoo.com/australia-checking-2-objects-search-plane-031712226--finance.html (http://news.yahoo.com/australia-checking-2-objects-search-plane-031712226--finance.html)
Don is obviously hitting the bong hard...I mean I guess that fanciful crap appeals to garden-variety CNN-watchers, like potted plants, people in insane asylums...democrats...washed up entertainers looking for publicity...stoners...some of these overlap...
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Only one problem with the plane going down in water...no signal. There is supposed to be a signal sent out whenever the plane hits water. As far as I know there has been no signal received.
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What is the survivability of those things if they hit the ocean and maximum speed?
Meanwhile, still coming up zilch.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/21/us-malaysiaairlines-flight-idUSBREA2701720140321 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/21/us-malaysiaairlines-flight-idUSBREA2701720140321)
But, it took 2 years to find a device from that Air France flight that went down in the Atlantic, so we may have quite a long time to go. The problem is, unlike Air France, there is no wreckage found, and we are well past their 5 day mark.
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2014/03-overflow/20140320_flight.png)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-20/mapping-every-vanished-plane-1948 (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-20/mapping-every-vanished-plane-1948)
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Another theory...
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/lt-gen-mcinerney-i-think-the-mh370-passengers-may-be-alive-i-think-the-plane-landed-video/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/lt-gen-mcinerney-i-think-the-mh370-passengers-may-be-alive-i-think-the-plane-landed-video/)
...OK Tom, then why isn't India talking?
So helpful... ::facepalm::
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I don't know how this factors in.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2586308/Missing-jet-WAS-carrying-highly-flammable-lithium-batteries-CEO-Malaysian-Airlines-finally-admits-dangerous-cargo.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2586308/Missing-jet-WAS-carrying-highly-flammable-lithium-batteries-CEO-Malaysian-Airlines-finally-admits-dangerous-cargo.html)
They still don't know where it went...StanLand, IO, ... ::whatgives::
Apparently the Chinese have an idea, but they are tight-lipped about it...
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StanLand, Pak to be specific, so says Gen. McInerney's LIGNET sources.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/breaking-lt-gen-mcinerney-says-mh370-in-pakistan-i-got-a-source-at-lignet-that-confirmed-it-yesterday-video/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/breaking-lt-gen-mcinerney-says-mh370-in-pakistan-i-got-a-source-at-lignet-that-confirmed-it-yesterday-video/)
FYI - LIGENT is where former government spooks go to once they've had enough government work.
http://www.lignet.com/About (http://www.lignet.com/About)
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2586716/China-locates-large-72ft-long-object-Indian-Ocean-MH370-hunt.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2586716/China-locates-large-72ft-long-object-Indian-Ocean-MH370-hunt.html)
Nada.
This has now entered the stage where common (it is common, especially in this region) trash floating about is being reported as news.
Unless something more concrete comes up, this thread might be entering hibernation...
ETA - One interesting side note...
(http://2-ps.googleusercontent.com/h/www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/576x487xdoctored-pics-.jpg.pagespeed.ic.ROwHoEtPkT.jpg)
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/breaking-photos-were-doctored-of-iranian-passengers-with-stolen-passports-on-flight-mh370/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/breaking-photos-were-doctored-of-iranian-passengers-with-stolen-passports-on-flight-mh370/)
Conspiracy? Who would be worse than Persians? ::thinking::
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I'm kinda with the General...
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/lt-gen-mcinerey-why-did-mh370-pilot-go-south-it-just-doesnt-make-any-sense-video/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/lt-gen-mcinerey-why-did-mh370-pilot-go-south-it-just-doesnt-make-any-sense-video/)
...everybody focusing in on this debris field in the south IO, but still no conclusive proof that is MH370...why would it be way the hell down there???
::whatgives::
Either that or the ::foilhathelicopter:: types will tell me the General is in on it...
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Final resting place more north that previously thought.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/04/05/article-2597630-1CDB1BBE00000578-916_634x507.jpg)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2597630/Chinese-ship-looking-missing-Malaysia-Airlines-plane-detects-black-box-pulse-signal-southern-Indian-Ocean.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2597630/Chinese-ship-looking-missing-Malaysia-Airlines-plane-detects-black-box-pulse-signal-southern-Indian-Ocean.html)
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Final resting place never verified...US Navy pulling out...
http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=80694 (http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=80694)
Probably have to get used to never knowing...unless it shows up one day slamming into something...
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The CIA done it!
So says Malaysian PM...
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/05/former-malaysian-pm-accuses-cia-of-covering-up-what-happened-to-missing-mh370/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/05/former-malaysian-pm-accuses-cia-of-covering-up-what-happened-to-missing-mh370/)
Yeah, sure...I can buy that...only if someone(s) detrimental to the reign of Obama was on board...
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More rumors of US involvement and Diego Garcia...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-22/former-airline-ceo-claims-us-military-shot-down-mh370-near-diego-garcia (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-22/former-airline-ceo-claims-us-military-shot-down-mh370-near-diego-garcia)
...we need some hard evidence, credible people at DG who saw something, some physical evidence, bodies of passengers living or dead...
...but if anything remotely like this is true and the US was involved and kept it from the world...would Team Obama survive this atrocity? SOBs survive everything else.
Until proof surfaces, it's all just more speculation...
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Regarding the above...still no evidence...but given this new discovery close to Madagascar...
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2015/07-overflow/20150729_MH370_0.jpg)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-29/flight-mh370-wreckage-found-close-madagascar (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-29/flight-mh370-wreckage-found-close-madagascar)
...a possible flight path near Diego Garcia is intruiging...if it did venture close by, just how in the heck did the military radar operators there NOT see a radar profile that large on their screens? Surely the goofy pilot could not have had the fuel to wave-hop the entire breadth of Indian Ocean!
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Parts found on Reunion Island belong to the missing plane.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/08/05/plane-debris-belongs-to-mh370-malaysian-pm-says/?intcmp=hplnws (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/08/05/plane-debris-belongs-to-mh370-malaysian-pm-says/?intcmp=hplnws)
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And that island is east of Madagascar, giving even more credence to the Diego Garcia flight path and sightings...and it appears maybe the Malaysian PM isn't as crazy as he sounds when he said the CIA did it...
Everybody was looking in the wrong spots, the search off the west coast of Australia a major time waster, McInerney and his LIGENT sources saying it was in Pakistan turns out to be yet another major red-herring, likewise the India notion, and who were these mysterious Persians on board...and still the most vexing to me - the whole Diego Garcia thing...if it flew anywhere near that place the military would be on them like stink on pooh! And the latter just gives more weight to the allegation that the US shot it down.
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I don't know who this guy is where this video came from or what to think of it...
https://rumble.com/v3y62kx-missing-malaysian-flight-370s-vanishing-moment-caught-on-camera.html
Who's supposed drone footage?
I'm going with hoax.