It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => General Board => Topic started by: Weisshaupt on June 08, 2011, 04:09:20 PM
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Sorry to cross post, but I didn't want to transpose all of the Web Links. Don't worry it won't happen often, as I rarely write anything anymore. Criticism and commentary and suggestions for improvements welcome.
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Godwin's Law engaged.
http://ittbbb.blogtownhall.com/2011/06/08/a_hypothetical_question.thtml (http://ittbbb.blogtownhall.com/2011/06/08/a_hypothetical_question.thtml)
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This really gets my goat Weisshaupt.
No really! I wish I had been paying better attention yesterday when this guy (name forever forgotten) was being interview on hate-talk radio. He was talking about the rise of Nazi Germany and how the German citizens became unwitting co-conspirators in the madness of Nazism. That wasn't the term he used and I can't recall it now. Once you condone or allow the behavior one time, you are psychologically bound to both the perpetrators and the act.
It can be resisted, but it takes a huge and deliberate effort. And the longer you allow it to fester, the harder it is to break free.
I'm sorry that I can't recall the term!
But your hypothetical question involves dhimmicrats and they're all insane so none of the usual rules apply ;D
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Sorry to cross post, but I didn't want to transpose all of the Web Links. Don't worry it won't happen often, as I rarely write anything anymore. Criticism and commentary and suggestions for improvements welcome.
3...
2...
1...
Godwin's Law engaged.
http://ittbbb.blogtownhall.com/2011/06/08/a_hypothetical_question.thtml (http://ittbbb.blogtownhall.com/2011/06/08/a_hypothetical_question.thtml)
Speaking for myself, not bothered by the crossposting. Maybe you could url/link your name to here, but if not, fine, too.
Shame you write less now; you do well generally, and your current piece is no exception. Vast amount of relevant information there in the links and with you lining up the dots the way you have, hard to go "ostrich".
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This really gets my goat Weisshaupt.
No really! I wish I had been paying better attention yesterday when this guy (name forever forgotten) was being interview on hate-talk radio. He was talking about the rise of Nazi Germany and how the German citizens became unwitting co-conspirators in the madness of Nazism. That wasn't the term he used and I can't recall it now. Once you condone or allow the behavior one time, you are psychologically bound to both the perpetrators and the act.
It can be resisted, but it takes a huge and deliberate effort. And the longer you allow it to fester, the harder it is to break free.
I'm sorry that I can't recall the term!
But your hypothetical question involves dhimmicrats and they're all insane so none of the usual rules apply ;D
Complicit?
/Partzheimer's. I hatez it.
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I'm sorry that I can't recall the term!
Was it "Psychic numbing"? Robert Lifton, a psychiatrist who wrote "The Nazi Doctors: Medical Killing and the Psychology of Genocide," used the term to describe how these respected scientists dealt with the things they were doing - calling people specimens, etc in order to dehumanize them.. its not very different from how Liberals use "Framing" to hide the truth of their actions either.
But there may be another term more specific to the effect - that once you stand by and do nothing out of fear or cowardice once , that it becomes easier, and in fact more necessary to do so in subsequenct events , just to maintain your ego and sense of self worth. - You convince yourself its right,because you know at some level it isn't but you didn't do anything about it. Its possble liberals suffer from that, but that would assume they have some sense of moral principles to begin with, and at this point I am not sure that is true.
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IMHO the biggest difference in the two societies, to put it crudely, is that as Americans are natural rednecks (albeit each region has its on unique variation) and Germans are natural pacifists.
Caution: I am referencing the general population of each, not the Ruling Class.
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Sorry to cross post, but I didn't want to transpose all of the Web Links. Don't worry it won't happen often, as I rarely write anything anymore. Criticism and commentary and suggestions for improvements welcome.
3...
2...
1...
Godwin's Law engaged.
http://ittbbb.blogtownhall.com/2011/06/08/a_hypothetical_question.thtml (http://ittbbb.blogtownhall.com/2011/06/08/a_hypothetical_question.thtml)
You need to post more.....
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I'm sorry that I can't recall the term!
Was it "Psychic numbing"? Robert Lifton, a psychiatrist who wrote "The Nazi Doctors: Medical Killing and the Psychology of Genocide," used the term to describe how these respected scientists dealt with the tings they were doing - calling people specimens, etc in order to dehumanize them.. its not very different from how Liberals use "Framing" to hide the truth of their actions either.
But there may be another term more specific to the effect - that once you stand by and do nothing out of fear or cowardice once , that it becomes easier, and in fact more necessary to do so in subsequenct events , just to maintain your ego and sense of self worth. - You convince yourself its right,because you know at some level it isn't but you didn't do anything about it. Its possble liberal suffer fromthat, but that would assume they have some sense of moral principles to begin with, and at this point I am not sure that is true.
Thank you Weisshaupt!
I'm fairly sure that the left's moral relativism plays a large part in their ready acceptance of evil. Or in the case of Øbongo, malevolence. I see right-wingers wrestle with the notion of "lesser of two evils" - lesser evil is still evil - but lefties never seem bothered by the contradiction.
So in answer to the original hypothetical, for some the answer is never. They will continue to support Øbongo - perhaps with a lack of the same enthusiasm that we saw in 2008 - but support nonetheless, to the bitter end. they will deny the obvious as long as they can, rationalize even longer, and even resort to a "spite vote" just because they hate the right more than they value life itself.
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The only critique I can think of is that there were a couple of places where the dates were out of order, assuming you intended to put them all in chronological order.
I don't have a problem with the general thesis. I made a comment on another blog a couple of days after the 2008 election saying that now I understand how non-Nazi German people must have felt after the 1932 election.
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They will continue to support Øbongo - perhaps with a lack of the same enthusiasm that we saw in 2008 - but support nonetheless, to the bitter end. they will deny the obvious as long as they can, rationalize even longer, and even resort to a "spite vote" just because they hate the right more than they value life itself.
Speaking of which - did you see this:
LINK FIXED (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/06/predictable-daily-kos-the-weiner-press-conference-was-faked/)
(I apologize if its already there in the 20 pages of the Weinergate thread.. I am just not that interested - I have seen that story before, multiple times.. )
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So in answer to the original hypothetical, for some the answer is never. They will continue to support Øbongo - perhaps with a lack of the same enthusiasm that we saw in 2008 - but support nonetheless, to the bitter end. they will deny the obvious as long as they can, rationalize even longer, and even resort to a "spite vote" just because they hate the right more than they value life itself.
I think this is the explanation for so many things they do.
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IMHO the biggest difference in the two societies, to put it crudely, is that as Americans are natural rednecks (albeit each region has its on unique variation) and Germans are natural pacifists.
Caution: I am referencing the general population of each, not the Ruling Class.
And rednecks like us have guns...for now...Obamakov wants to do away with that by doing his end-run around the constitution via the UN's Small Arms Treaty. This will heat up next year according to an article on The Blaze today, when a conference meets to strategize the effort.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/is-the-u-n-trying-to-strip-americans-second-amendment-rights/ (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/is-the-u-n-trying-to-strip-americans-second-amendment-rights/)
So control of the Senate will be key to killing this, even though no real American would bring this up for ratification to start with since it flies in the face of our law of the land! But as we all know, there are no real American's running things in this Regime!
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They will continue to support Øbongo - perhaps with a lack of the same enthusiasm that we saw in 2008 - but support nonetheless, to the bitter end. they will deny the obvious as long as they can, rationalize even longer, and even resort to a "spite vote" just because they hate the right more than they value life itself.
Speaking of which - did you see this:
http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2011/06/daily-kos-the-weiner-press-conference-was-faked/ (http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2011/06/daily-kos-the-weiner-press-conference-was-faked/)
(I apologize if its already there in the 20 pages of the Weinergate thread.. I am just not that interested - I have seen that story before, multiple times.. )
I can't get your link to work but I saw something about the kos klowns over at the freepers yesterday. That's what they get for staring directly into the sun for hours at a time ;D
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[blockquote]
This will heat up next year according to an article on The Blaze today, when a conference meets to strategize the effort.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/is-the-u-n-trying-to-strip-americans-second-amendment-rights/ (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/is-the-u-n-trying-to-strip-americans-second-amendment-rights/)
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But as we all know, there are no real American's running things in this Regime!
[/blockquote]
They (all the Ruling Class) know this is their last chance and are beginning their full court press. Weiner was a little bump in the road and they press will continue relentlessly.
::champagne toast:: Here's to 2012! "mend it or end it"
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I hope I can pop a cork in celebration of Obamakov getting thrown out on his ass!
::newyear::
::beertoast::
::whoohoo::
::cool::
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Weisshaupt, crossposting is welcome, and in fact, encouraged. Content is the driver of the forum, and original content is an important component. Having discussions about the thoughts and ideas of our friends is a somewhat different activity than having discussions about the news. So please, feel free. As Pan said, if there is a way to slip a "cross-posted at" link to this forum into your postings elsewhere, all the better, but certainly not a requirement. Another thing might be to post a relevant opening paragraph or two here, linking the rest - also, not a requirement.
Re; your piece, you draw some good analogies. Myself, I think Godwin's Law is bullsh*t. It is meant to make people feel ridiculous for making comparisons to Hitler. But in my opinion a society that is careening toward the cliff of National Socialism cannot afford to be afraid to draw those comparisons. So good on you.
I only have one small issue:
[blockquote]"I DO NOT think that Obama has the same intents, goals or ends as Hitler and the Nazis had."[/blockquote]
I'm not so sure. I'm not afraid to say that the darkness in this man's words and actions lead me to believe he would be capable of anything.
And I wonder - was Hitler even Hitler in the beginning? Or did events converge with his megalomaniacal personality to create the demon we know as Hitler? What matters is not whether Hitler planned his atrocities, as you seem to be suggesting Obama would be doing now if her were Hitlerian. What matters that Hitler had evil in his soul that came to the fore and worked its will.
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And I wonder - was Hitler even Hitler in the beginning? Or did events converge with his megalomaniacal personality to create the demon we know as Hitler? What matters is not whether Hitler planned his atrocities, as you seem to be suggesting Obama would be doing now if her were Hitlerian. What matters that Hitler had evil in his soul that came to the fore and worked its will.
Which is why I think some are reluctant to call BO's behavior evil. They expect to see evil in full form before them. They refuse to see the steps leading to its fruition.
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What matters is not whether Hitler planned his atrocities, as you seem to be suggesting Obama would be doing now if her were Hitlerian. What matters that Hitler had evil in his soul that came to the fore and worked its will.
I don't doubt that Hitler sincerely believe he was doing the right thing by killing all of the Jews. I don't think he saw himself as evil, but rather as a noble person willing to do what he thought was required. I don't think Hitler was cynically running a campaign against Jews just because it would garner political power - I think he genuinely hated them, and felt they were the reason Germany and the world was in the shape it was in. I think the same is probably true of every tyrant - all were willing to break eggs for some great cause they believed in. None of them looked at themselves as villians - cartoonish "Lex Luthor" bad guys who relish BEING and DOING evil.
I don't think Obama's philosophy is informed by the same things that informed Hitler, I don't think he has the same hatreds or prejudices, nor do I even think he is necessarily keen to use the same methods. Nor do I think he is blindly pursuing power for power's sake. He has goals and aims unique to his "great cause" whatever it is, and probably his own limits on what atrocities he is willing to commit in the service of his cause. Those limits may be less than or greater than Hitler's, and he may be fine with carting Conservatives off in boxcars to be gassed, or he may reject that as an option.The point I was trying to make is that both Hitler and Obama have moral codes which in no way recognize the American values of inalienable rights, the rule of law, equality before the law , or the consent of the governed.
If there is some part of Obama hostile towards Jews or Israel, I think it is political and not racial in nature. Islam doesn't necessarily want to kill Jews because they are Jewish. It merely wants them( and everypone else) to convert to Islam. Though I don't presume to know what Cause animates Obama's actions- Socialism, Islam, some combination, or something entirely other. I just know that he, and all other liberals for that matter, are not bound by any of the moral principles upon which this nation was founded, and the protection of our liberty rest.
I Hatez em.
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Obama does believe in using the power of his office to punish political opponents.
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I hope I can pop a cork in celebration of Obamakov getting thrown out on his ass!
::newyear::
::beertoast::
::whoohoo::
::cool::
Come on down and we'll do it together.I'm talking a three day bender.
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Myself, I think Godwin's Law is bullsh*t. It is meant to make people feel ridiculous for making comparisons to Hitler.
Not really. Not as intended. It was meant to mock and ridicule lazy debaters who would ascribe malevolent intentions to their adversaries instead of defending their own point of view. I should know - having been called a Nazi by both right and lefties ::speechless::
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Myself, I think Godwin's Law is bullsh*t. It is meant to make people feel ridiculous for making comparisons to Hitler.
Not really. Not as intended. It was meant to mock and ridicule lazy debaters who would ascribe malevolent intentions to their adversaries instead of defending their own point of view. I should know - having been called a Nazi by both right and lefties ::speechless::
Badge of honor if ever I saw one.
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What matters is not whether Hitler planned his atrocities, as you seem to be suggesting Obama would be doing now if her were Hitlerian. What matters that Hitler had evil in his soul that came to the fore and worked its will.
I don't doubt that Hitler sincerely believe he was doing the right thing by killing all of the Jews. I don't think he saw himself as evil, but rather as a noble person willing to do what he thought was required. I don't think Hitler was cynically running a campaign against Jews just because it would garner political power - I think he genuinely hated them, and felt they were the reason Germany and the world was in the shape it was in. I think the same is probably true of every tyrant - all were willing to break eggs for some great cause they believed in. None of them looked at themselves as villians - cartoonish "Lex Luthor" bad guys who relish BEING and DOING evil.
I don't think Obama's philosophy is informed by the same things that informed Hitler, I don't think he has the same hatreds or prejudices, nor do I even think he is necessarily keen to use the same methods. Nor do I think he is blindly pursuing power for power's sake. He has goals and aims unique to his "great cause" whatever it is, and probably his own limits on what atrocities he is willing to commit in the service of his cause. Those limits may be less than or greater than Hitler's, and he may be fine with carting Conservatives off in boxcars to be gassed, or he may reject that as an option.The point I was trying to make is that both Hitler and Obama have moral codes which in no way recognize the American values of inalienable rights, the rule of law, equality before the law , or the consent of the governed.
If there is some part of Obama hostile towards Jews or Israel, I think it is political and not racial in nature. Islam doesn't necessarily want to kill Jews because they are Jewish. It merely wants them( and everypone else) to convert to Islam. Though I don't presume to know what Cause animates Obama's actions- Socialism, Islam, some combination, or something entirely other. I just know that he, and all other liberals for that matter, are not bound by any of the moral principles upon which this nation was founded, and the protection of our liberty rest.
I Hatez em.
I agree with your take of obama's "moral code, but with the Wrights, the dorns, the ayers, alinskis, his agnostic mom and muslim dad, his philospohies could very well have been formed similiar to hitlers. The goals are the same, he is limiting the tools used to global warming, abortion, re distribution of wealth, overstepping the Constitution, czars, takeovers, nationalized healthcare, taxation, dependence, gays rights, etc....he just isn't using bullets and concentration camps.
If obama is successful in "re shaping America", I'm not too sure it wouldn't appear similiar to what hitler desired.
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When I wonder about whatever malevolent spirit may be festering inside Barack Hussein Obama, I look to the pattern of parental abandonment; his disdain for his detached adult caregiving grandparents, and the unrealistic worship of his mother, father, and stepfather; being dragged around like luggage; his transient attachment to various "mentors" throughout life; his familial, racial, cultural, religious, and national identity crisis... and I observe what he does and says.
I come up with a very disturbing conclusion when I hold his tormented upbringing up to the light of his words and deeds.
You don't just work feverishly to destroy the greatest nation the world has ever known without being willing to do what it takes in the final analysis. Who at this point does not believe that Obama is bent on destroying the greatness of this country? He embodies America's antithesis. He has shown an utter disdain for the people and the law, and complete willingness to do whatever it takes within the scope of his power and ability. Given more power and more excuses to enact his will, who is willing to bet on Barack Obama having the moral compass to take his destructive ambition only so far and no further?
I believe him capable of anything. We all have the seeds of evil within us. He has shown an eagerness to nurture them.
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You don't just work feverishly to destroy the greatest nation the world has ever known without being willing to do what it takes in the final analysis. Who at this point does not believe that Obama is bent on destroying the greatness of this country? He embodies America's antithesis. He has shown an utter disdain for the people and the law, and complete willingness to do whatever it takes within the scope of his power and ability. Given more power and more excuses to enact his will, who is willing to bet on Barack Obama having the moral compass to take his destructive ambition only so far and no further?
I believe him capable of anything. We all have the seeds of evil within us. He has shown an eagerness to nurture them.
Yep, and I've thought so from the very beginning.
Stalin was not the same as Hitler, Pol Pot was not the same as Mao, and Chavez is not the same as Castro. Obama is not the same as any of them. But they all have enough in common with each other so that the differences between them are trivial.
He certainly has plenty of demons in his psyche, caused by a twisted parentage and upbringing. That's a shame, and normally a reason for pity. The trouble is, he's President of the United States and is in a position of great power. He never should have been allowed to get anywhere near the levers of power, and we have the media to thank for that. May they rot in hell for all eternity.
I don't see Obama going after Jews in particular. Rather, he regards them as a subset of white people, who are his main enemy. He has fully internalized the Leftist dogma that Western (White) Civilization is uniquely evil and needs to be brought down. He identifies with the Third World, the Muslim World, and "people of color" in general. He believes that white people have stolen the wealth they have, and that they need to be "taken down a notch". His entire economic policy will result in white people being forced into poverty and destitution, and he believes that it is right and just. (That is the real meaning of "social justice": Revenge.) Jews are just collateral damage. His real target is the white race. The man absolutely seethes with hatred towards white people. It's obvious when you look at his history and his statements.
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[Insert previous 2 excellent posts here].
Ultimately, what it comes down to is that he is leader of "Jihad America".
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[Insert previous 2 excellent posts here].
Ultimately, what it comes down to is that he is leader of "Jihad America".
You're being kind to that SOB in chief.
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And who is Obama's father figure?
In his formative years, it was the avowed communist Frank Marshall Davis; later it was the anti-Semitic, anti-American, racist preacher, the good Reverend Jeremiah Wright.
Not good for the country. Not good at all . . .
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And who is Obama's father figure?
In his formative years, it was the avowed communist Frank Marshall Davis; later it was the anti-Semitic, anti-American, racist preacher, the good Reverend Jeremiah Wright.
Not good for the country. Not good at all . . .
Not that his real father would have been any better.
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Nice piece, Weisshaupt. Very well written, but I have the same reservation IDP has...the goal is power.
The Marxist playbook calls for class envy/war, identifying a common demographic to blame and hate (don't know if I'd say we conservatives will have our own ovens, but the Jews were disarmed first, like o is trying to do). Personally, if this treaty goes through, you will see me in the news.I hope I can pop a cork in celebration of Obamakov getting thrown out on his ass!
::newyear::
::beertoast::
::whoohoo::
::cool::
Come on down and we'll do it together.I'm talking a three day bender.
It'll be a start, but even after him gone, we'll still have a very treacherous road ahead. The entire system is corrupt and unsustainable, no matter who's in office or who has Congress.
But I might fly Old Glory again.
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And who is Obama's father figure?
In his formative years, it was the avowed communist Frank Marshall Davis; later it was the anti-Semitic, anti-American, racist preacher, the good Reverend Jeremiah Wright.
Not good for the country. Not good at all . . .
Am I being overly optimistic, bordering on naive, in thinking that maybe, just maybe, people will see the failure of the left's agenda and reject it, or possibly they overplay their hand and make a wrong move, like disarming us, and setting off the next thing in this country which will result in a restoration of the Constitution?
I know it's possible, just not very likely given what I've seen from our fellow "citizens".
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It's always comforting to allow a wave of security flow through the psyche.
We'll know for sure next November.
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Nice piece, Weisshaupt. Very well written, but I have the same reservation IDP has...the goal is power.
You could all the despots of history had "power" as a goal to some extent, but I think the worst had other aims and "power" as a concept was only a menas to an end.
Saddam wanted power for "power's sake" - He wasn't out to accomplish anyhting besides taking drugs, punish his enemies, etc.
Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Chavez and so on, all had something to accomplish. . and all thought it was for the best. I don't know what Obama has in his heart, but I suspect its made of the same stuff...a willingness to do anything to anyone in order to acomplish goal.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. " C.S. Lewis