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Topics => History => Topic started by: Libertas on October 18, 2017, 07:31:24 AM

Title: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on October 18, 2017, 07:31:24 AM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-17/cia-urges-trump-delay-release-3000-never-seen-documents-jfk-assassination (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-17/cia-urges-trump-delay-release-3000-never-seen-documents-jfk-assassination)

In a functioning Republic there should not ever be a fear of releasing information...especially after 54 years!

BTW - I do not think Posner is necessarily incorrect as to number of shooters...but the who is still open for debate...and I agree with the real who behind it all as Roger Stone alleges, in my mind no other single person on the planet stood to gain as much by this than LBJ!
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on October 27, 2017, 09:41:46 AM
I guess the answer was...both.   ::facepalm::

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-26/trump-delays-release-some-jfk-assassination-records-after-last-minute-cia-push (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-26/trump-delays-release-some-jfk-assassination-records-after-last-minute-cia-push)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-27/trump-backtracks-jfk-files-vows-release-just-about-everything-public (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-27/trump-backtracks-jfk-files-vows-release-just-about-everything-public)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trump-expected-to-release-remaining-jfk-assassination-documents-thursday/2017/10/25/52c8f71a-b9b7-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html?utm_term=.63193a64b16f (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trump-expected-to-release-remaining-jfk-assassination-documents-thursday/2017/10/25/52c8f71a-b9b7-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html?utm_term=.63193a64b16f)

Spooks...   ::)

What, after all this time...is there to 'protect' that could damage those clowns?

Looks, smells, walks, talks...like BS!

Yeah...kinda think the KGB was right...they may have been thugs, but they weren't stupid...not about their tradecraft anyway, their ideology yeah...but they out-played the West a number of times...

http://nypost.com/2017/10/27/unsealed-docs-reveal-kgb-thought-lbj-could-have-been-behind-jfk-assassination/ (http://nypost.com/2017/10/27/unsealed-docs-reveal-kgb-thought-lbj-could-have-been-behind-jfk-assassination/)

Diem thing is poppycock.

Sorted through a bunch of these files...lot of blather about committees, lots of goose-chases into the Mexico back story of Oswald...Cuba crap...whole lot of nothing...

The Secret Service threat files were interesting...even back then there were a lot of kooks making all sorts of threats...who was looked into prior to the Dallas trip...stuff on King & Ray (interesting to see how they collected newspaper and literary stuff to help investigate other angles & people!)...Nosenko & Golitsyn notes...Informants with names like "Claudius" informing on radical leftists...Operation Mongoose...

Illegible docs...seriously, technology today, somebody gotta work on those...

There is 134 pages of linked PDF's.
   
Some CIA files marked "SENSITIVE ORIGINAL WITHHELD BY CIA"...I guess those are the ones they convinced/refused to release until April...seriously, April?  WTF?

Just the volume out there of this and the previous releases...an intelligent person might determine it is all background noise meant to clutter the truth! I mean, even at this late date...the bulk of this stuff is nothing, why did it take so long to track down and release this dreck?  So far I have not stumbled into anything screaming "OMG, I can see why they withheld this stuff for so long!".

https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/2017-release (https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/2017-release)

I recommend hitting the Excel download file, you can sort by source, to/from, subject...whatever trips your trigger...and the links embedded in the first column pop open your browser and bring you to the document PDF.
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on October 27, 2017, 01:25:59 PM
OK, I find this the most interesting thing yet -

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32106450.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32106450.pdf)

Where is this notebook now?  What did it contain?  Who rented room 2422?

 ::whatgives::
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: AlanS on October 27, 2017, 05:18:17 PM
Where is this notebook now?  What did it contain?  Who rented room 2422?

 ::whatgives::

I doubt if we'll ever know.
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on October 30, 2017, 08:43:42 AM
Where is this notebook now?  What did it contain?  Who rented room 2422?

 ::whatgives::

I doubt if we'll ever know.

Maybe it really was the guy fictionalized in the Stephen Hunter novel "The Third Bullet" who fired the kill-shot from the Dal-Tex Building?!   ::speechless::

The ballistic detail he goes into in that novel with his fictional theory compared to the official ballistic reports is compelling!
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: AlanS on October 30, 2017, 11:41:03 AM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-27/one-paragraph-you-need-read-jfk-assassination-files-may-change-everything (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-27/one-paragraph-you-need-read-jfk-assassination-files-may-change-everything)

(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2017/10/26/20171027_jfkpara3.jpg)
Quote

...the "Surgeon General's Report" on the assassination stated that the first bullet entered the President's throat below the adams apple, clearly showing that two persons were involved with the first shot being fired from the bridge across the park way in front of the car.

To further substantiate this, POTITO said there was a bullet hole in the wind shield of the President's car..

Things that make you go: WTF????
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on November 05, 2017, 03:29:53 PM
OK, latest release not offering a lot...

Radio traffic between Cuba & US was being looked into...

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/144-10001-10203.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/144-10001-10203.pdf)

East German response to the news interesting in terms of a cold war commie aparatchuk's point of view...

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/144-10001-10278.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/144-10001-10278.pdf)

Oswald's Russian teacher identified...I call out his opinion of Oswald as a criminal mastermind...

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32341335.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32341335.pdf)

"someone of Oswald's mentality and character"...

And there more of stuff like this...CIA FILE ON CISNEROS DIAZ, ROGELIO -

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10165-10084.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10165-10084.pdf)

Thanks, what a benefit that is...

Some interesting history on past plots on Castro etc...

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32105882.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32105882.pdf)

Interesting history on Operation Mongoose...

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32424902.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32424902.pdf)

...funny, isn't that basically the approach the Russians ran with when they rolled into Afghanistan a decade or so later?

Condolences from Soviets and helpful admission of info on Oswald and the CIA's opinion it was an easy offer as they must know their conversations are captured...

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32373296.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32373296.pdf)

And...uhh...what? 

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10226-10111.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10226-10111.pdf)

An itinerary for "Ramrod" in December 1962 in the JFK files?  Only "Ramrod" I know is Bob Dole?   ::whatgives::

The CIA approach to giving info to the Warren Commission: Facts w/out how and avoid press musings -

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32343465.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32343465.pdf)

About this Silvia Duran, a Mexican working at the Cuban consulate...

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32347959.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32347959.pdf)

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32353576.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32353576.pdf)

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32389422.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32389422.pdf)

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32356652.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32356652.pdf)

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32373478.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32373478.pdf)

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32389422.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32389422.pdf)

Interestingly, the Cubans cut Duran lose and fired one of their own, with or without Russian insistence who knows...but the Russian's obviously were dicking with Oswald's visa requests for a long time and didn't seem eager to have him anywhere near Russia or Cuba...either because they knew he was a f**kup, or because they knew as a f**kup he could be used against them since they were already dumb enough to let him in once!

I don't buy much of anything in the Cuban angle...but who the hell was this Cuban GTFO of town that they held a departure for him? 

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32202099.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32202099.pdf)

Curiosity, nothing else...

Interesting though the guy dicking Oswald over came from their Assassination branch...

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32364160.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32364160.pdf)

I'd hang up and run from that ass-clown Oswald too! 

Duran spotted in Texas in January 1963.

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32202106.pdf (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32202106.pdf)

Probably meeting LBJ's operational cut-out's, putting her honey-trap plans in operation...get a solid backstory sticking Oswald to the Russians...keeping all eyes off those really calling the shots...
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on November 20, 2017, 08:36:03 AM
Interesting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5095695/Jack-Ruby-known-JFK-assassination.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5095695/Jack-Ruby-known-JFK-assassination.html)

Odd phrasing...fireworks...on the morning of.  If it was "parade", "show"...something generic like that...I could dismiss it entirely as nothing...

Ruby is often cited with all manner of reasons for snuffing Oswald...but the official record just chose to chalk his role up to enraged vengeance of a hot-headed nobody...

Sure seems to fit the kind of guy my primary criminal mastermind would employ to shut somebody up...

https://nostalgia049.wordpress.com/2013/09/25/lbjs-options-assassinate-jfk-or-go-to-prison/ (https://nostalgia049.wordpress.com/2013/09/25/lbjs-options-assassinate-jfk-or-go-to-prison/)
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on August 16, 2021, 11:53:37 AM
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/why-nara-secrecy-over-secret-jfk-records (https://www.zerohedge.com/political/why-nara-secrecy-over-secret-jfk-records)

Hornberger is being a little coy...no perpetual bureaucracy need explain itself, let alone explain the obvious, to any serf!  Heck, bureaucrats straight up lie to Senators, Congresscritters, Judges, attorneys, jurors and presstitutes daily if not hourly...or by the second!

Some of that ilk likes it and/or needs it...and the bureaucrats know it pisses sane people off...
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on October 26, 2021, 08:39:55 AM
Still not done covering DeepState asses...takes a lot of time to redact that much stuff...

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/identifiable-harm-biden-kills-jfk-file-release-issues-baffling-statement (https://www.zerohedge.com/political/identifiable-harm-biden-kills-jfk-file-release-issues-baffling-statement)

Any "identifiable harm" to the DeepState is verbotten...who do these Amerikan serfs think they are?!
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on December 16, 2021, 09:11:17 AM
Latest data dump...

https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/release2021 (https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/release2021)

I scanned these...the usual notes and scribbles with scant details (paper-chasing), more on Castro/Anti-Castro activities (Operation Mongoose), congressional transcripts of key people interviewed over the years (Colby CIA, etc).

More evidence of operational use of in-house and private contractors to distance CIA fingerprints on activities, placement/recruitment of assets in news organizations (especially wire services like UPI etc that were often first-source disseminators) and the FBI's penchant for informants.

It's easy to see now how lax oversight and ever-increasing budgets and crisis-fundraising created the DeepState Beast we know and distrust today...

No "ahh ha!" stuff here...seems previous holds were all about fear of releasing info showing how much they all knew about POI's and how inept they are at connecting dots and how focused on checking/toppling prime targets by any means necessary they were...which in fairness to the times in many cases was understandable...but when it comes to threats coming at us on our own turf the compartmentalization that was endemic and the sharing between agencies was spotty and the leadership that was feudal in nature...once can only conclude that they are often inept or complicit in things...so which was it in this case?

I've never subscribed to grand conspiracy theories on the JFK assassination, Occam's Razor...the bigger it is the harder to keep a lid on it and the harder it is for it to succeed...if there is conspiracy it had to have been a very small group of principles...all other peripheral players little more than background noise allowed to through sh!t in the air to protect the core.

Anyway...at this rate, these releases won't conclude before we're all worm food...
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: paulh on December 16, 2021, 10:17:05 AM
The MOB did it ::rockets::
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on December 16, 2022, 10:14:53 AM
I think the Mob was used in clean up only (Ruby et al)...

I still think it was DeepState and they got LBJ to go along...DeepState got the bigger war it wanted and all the black budget funding the lusted for...LBJ got the exponentially expanded welfare state and the pieces in place to enslave generations onto the Dem Plantation...

And as some suggest (not without justification) CIA involvement...

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/12/15/tucker-carlson-asks-knowing-what-you-know-now-do-you-think-the-cia-killed-president-kennedy/comment-page-1/#comments

...at that point in time nothing was as deep in the DeepState than the CIA...the FBI was still under the iron rule of J. Edgar Hoover and Hoover jealously asserted their jurisdiction in domestic activities...but the CIA having been born out of the OSS and given a bigger mission and budget could operate much better in the shadows than the FBI who were more top cops...but I don't see J.Edgar being too broke up about getting a pesky Kennedy off his back...

Of course eventually every institution got corrupted...it's how long march ops go, ya know?

Anyway...link is FWIW...

And, somebody linked these in the comments...kinda interesting who was hob-knobbing with whom...

https://youtu.be/wZlxu7JV34g

https://youtu.be/haMhn7jgW6E

https://youtu.be/TJgnftD3OFA

Also, though many policies/statements may have triggered the DeepState into violent treasonous action...some point to this speech as being one of the triggers...

In the context of where we went, where we are today and with the not so long ago backdrop of Eisenhower's farewell address preceding this...it is a fascinating speech to hear again...

https://youtu.be/29NIlZxSsSs
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on December 19, 2022, 10:30:35 AM
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/bidens-latest-jfk-document-dump-joke (https://www.zerohedge.com/political/bidens-latest-jfk-document-dump-joke)

LOL, nice post, Kit.

The same Jack Ruby cavorting with other interesting fellows in the clips I posted above.

Well, JoeFraud is a loyal DeepState puppet...he remains loyal only to them...
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on December 20, 2022, 01:52:17 PM
(https://media.gab.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=700,quality=100,fit=scale-down/system/media_attachments/files/122/900/839/original/30e9f8ef0c5f1860.jpg)

(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/08be71e4c3610f831358fe3b97ad5404a4828475ed786e54479e7f3c0b66ac01.jpg)
H/T's-WRSA@GAB

What?

Themselves of course!

The descendants of the proto-DeepState cannot reveal any dirty laundry of their family...their code goes beyond the Omerta of the Cosa Nostra...

Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on January 12, 2023, 12:09:13 PM
The intersections might not be a coincidence...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/01/cia-infiltrated-watergate-break-nixon-threatened-leak-cia-involvement-jfk-murder/ (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/01/cia-infiltrated-watergate-break-nixon-threatened-leak-cia-involvement-jfk-murder/)

...and remember this?

https://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,18154.msg199234.html#msg199234 (https://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,18154.msg199234.html#msg199234)

...still to this day the Seth Rich data remains buried by the DeepState!!!

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/01/breaking-exclusive-next-months-attorney-believes-evidence-will-released-showing-2016-fbi-investigated-seth-richs-laptop-knew-supplied-emails-wikileaks-knew-russia-collusion/ (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/01/breaking-exclusive-next-months-attorney-believes-evidence-will-released-showing-2016-fbi-investigated-seth-richs-laptop-knew-supplied-emails-wikileaks-knew-russia-collusion/)

...we are dealing with all of the same bad actors and their minions...in ALL of this corrupt lawlessness and treason!!!
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on January 14, 2023, 10:47:12 AM
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/nixon-threatened-reveal-cias-involvement-kennedy-assassination-roger-stone-claims (https://www.zerohedge.com/political/nixon-threatened-reveal-cias-involvement-kennedy-assassination-roger-stone-claims)

I reckon in hindsight he should have taken them all down with him...

Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: paulh on January 14, 2023, 11:11:16 AM
"The Man Who Killed Kennedy" by Roger Stone (LBJ)
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on January 14, 2023, 11:40:13 AM
Aye, could not have happened without that bastard on-board with the plot...

I've long argued nobody politically (personally and for his party) than LBJ...and the other part of the deal was the capitulation of power to the shadow government of the DeepState...
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on May 11, 2023, 11:13:37 AM
The discussion is old...second shooter or not?  But this information from almost 15 months ago is new to me...and if the witness testimony (specifically the Ford workers, the motorcycle cops and doctors I've heard/read before) are true then this is compelling...

https://www.emerald.tv/p/thomas-lipscomb-hidden-in-plain-sight (https://www.emerald.tv/p/thomas-lipscomb-hidden-in-plain-sight)

So, by this analysis Oswald's first shot missed (all accounts seem to agree on that), the throat shot came from in front and not from the infamous "grassy knoll" to the limo's right but the other knoll to the left behind which was a parking lot...destroying the problematic "magic bullet" theory which instead indicates Oswald hit Connelly direct (and he was his real target, not JFK, whom They/Them were going to pin JFK on him from the start) and since the bullet hole in the front windshield was fairly high on the throat shot and the limo losing elevation the headshot just now clear of the windshield could do its full terminal damage.  Seeing JFK's head-shot I could see Oswald wantning to GTFO there.

Seems to fit the facts better, also clearly indicates a highly skilled sniper with likely military training and clearly indicates a conspiracy.  Everything afterward seems logical if this is the story...destroy evidence, eliminate the patsy...whitewash the people.
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on July 03, 2023, 01:11:43 PM
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/07/rfk-jr-blasts-biden-wh-makes-midnight-announcement/ (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/07/rfk-jr-blasts-biden-wh-makes-midnight-announcement/)

"What are they hiding?"

Obviously...the role of the CIA among others in the assassination...
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: paulh on July 03, 2023, 01:15:30 PM
I think Trump bailed too. Maybe 2nd time around?
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on August 14, 2023, 12:47:34 PM
This IMO is clear testimony that implicates the IC community in the coverup for certain...until more information comes to light the actual assassin(s) and who they actually worked for will continue to fester in the realm of speculation...and all they/them have to throw doubt is the missing original film and calling Dino a liar...

Dino Brugioni was used...his work memory-holed and a lie perpetuated for 60 years and counting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_QIuu6hsAc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_QIuu6hsAc)

Done in 2014 and I do not recall seeing it before...must be BigTech algorithm shenanigans again...

Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on September 11, 2023, 12:31:34 PM
Isn't this interesting...more holes in the Warren Commission white-wash...

JKF Secret Service agent Paul Landis -

His memory challenges the theory advanced by the Warren Commission that has been the subject of so much speculation and debate over the years — that one of the bullets fired at the president’s limousine hit not only Kennedy but Gov. John B. Connally Jr. of Texas, who was riding with him, in multiple places.

Mr. Landis’s account, included in a forthcoming memoir, would rewrite the narrative of one of modern American history’s most earth-shattering days in an important way. It may not mean any more than that. But it could also encourage those who have long suspected that there was more than one gunman in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963, adding new grist to one of the nation’s enduring mysteries.

As with all things related to the assassination, of course, his account raises questions of its own. Mr. Landis remained silent for 60 years, which has fueled doubts even for his former Secret Service partner, and memories are tricky even for those sincerely certain of their recollections. A couple elements of his account contradict the official statements he filed with authorities immediately after the shooting, and some of the implications of his version cannot be easily reconciled to the existing record.

But he was there, a firsthand witness, and it is rare for new testimony to emerge six decades after the fact. He has never subscribed to the conspiracy theories and stresses that he is not promoting one now. At age 88, he said, all he wants is to tell what he saw and what he did. He will leave it to everyone else to draw conclusions.

“There’s no goal at this point,” he said in an interview last month in Cleveland, the first time he has talked about this with a reporter in advance of his book, “The Final Witness,” which will be published by Chicago Review Press on Oct. 10. “I just think it had been long enough that I needed to tell my story.”

What it comes down to is a copper-jacketed 6.5-millimeter projectile. The Warren Commission decided that one of the bullets fired that day struck the president from behind, exited from the front of his throat and continued on to hit Mr. Connally, somehow managing to injure his back, chest, wrist and thigh. It seemed incredible that a single bullet could do all that, so skeptics called it the magic bullet theory.

Investigators came to that conclusion partly because the bullet was found on a stretcher believed to have held Mr. Connally at Parkland Memorial Hospital, so they assumed it had exited his body during efforts to save his life. But Mr. Landis, who was never interviewed by the Warren Commission, said that is not what happened.

In fact, he said, he was the one who found the bullet — and he found it not in the hospital near Mr. Connally but in the presidential limousine lodged in the back of the seat behind where Kennedy was sitting.

When he spotted the bullet after the motorcade arrived at the hospital, he said he grabbed it to thwart souvenir hunters. Then, for reasons that still seem fuzzy even to him, he said he entered the hospital and placed it next to Kennedy on the president’s stretcher, assuming it could somehow help doctors figure out what happened. At some point, he now guesses, the stretchers must have been pushed together and the bullet was shaken from one to another.

“There was nobody there to secure the scene, and that was a big, big bother to me,” Mr. Landis said. “All the agents that were there were focused on the president.” A crowd was gathering. “This was all going on so quickly. And I was just afraid that — it was a piece of evidence, that I realized right away. Very important. And I didn’t want it to disappear or get lost. So it was, ‘Paul, you’ve got to make a decision,’ and I grabbed it.’”

Mr. Landis theorizes that the bullet struck Kennedy in the back but for some reason was undercharged and did not penetrate deeply, therefore popping back out before the president’s body was removed from the limousine.

Mr. Landis has been reluctant to speculate on the larger implications. He always believed that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman.

But now? “At this point, I’m beginning to doubt myself,” he said. “Now I begin to wonder.” That is as far as he is willing to go.

The Magic Bullet Theory was one of the most tortured of the Warren Commission conclusions and likely the most infamous...

The two highlighted statements seem contradictory to me...I need someone to explain to me how a bullet can back up back into a seat cushion if in fact it penetrated from the rear?  If it didn't penetrate deeply how does that contradict the official and unofficial wound descriptions?  Can a poorly penetrated bullet be expunged by flesh & blood organically?  Probably need a pathologist to opine on that.

How does Paul's recollection of the fatal shot match Dino's original stills of the previous post?

And, we will never know what Jackie knew...
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: paulh on September 11, 2023, 01:06:15 PM
Roselli from the sewer, he admitted it and Garcetti screamed it. Mob+CIA= death
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on September 13, 2023, 12:10:45 PM
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/09/resurfaced-interviews-jfk-assassination-nurse-back-up-former/ (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/09/resurfaced-interviews-jfk-assassination-nurse-back-up-former/)

Some collaborating testimony.
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on September 15, 2023, 08:38:33 AM
(https://media.gab.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=568,quality=100,fit=scale-down/system/media_attachments/files/147/924/997/original/5dca2a0556325d40.jpeg)H/T-WRSA@GAB
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Syzygy on September 17, 2023, 12:39:13 AM
...
In fact, he said, he was the one who found the bullet — and he found it not in the hospital near Mr. Connally but in the presidential limousine lodged in the back of the seat behind where Kennedy was sitting.

When he spotted the bullet after the motorcade arrived at the hospital, he said he grabbed it to thwart souvenir hunters. Then, for reasons that still seem fuzzy even to him, he said he entered the hospital and placed it next to Kennedy on the president’s stretcher, assuming it could somehow help doctors figure out what happened. At some point, he now guesses, the stretchers must have been pushed together and the bullet was shaken from one to another.

“There was nobody there to secure the scene, and that was a big, big bother to me,” Mr. Landis said. “All the agents that were there were focused on the president.” A crowd was gathering. “This was all going on so quickly. And I was just afraid that — it was a piece of evidence, that I realized right away. Very important. And I didn’t want it to disappear or get lost. So it was, ‘Paul, you’ve got to make a decision,’ and I grabbed it.’”

Mr. Landis theorizes that the bullet struck Kennedy in the back but for some reason was undercharged and did not penetrate deeply, therefore popping back out before the president’s body was removed from the limousine.

Mr. Landis has been reluctant to speculate on the larger implications. He always believed that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman.

But now? “At this point, I’m beginning to doubt myself,” he said. “Now I begin to wonder.” That is as far as he is willing to go.[/color]

...
The two highlighted statements seem contradictory to me...I need someone to explain to me how a bullet can back up back into a seat cushion if in fact it penetrated from the rear?  If it didn't penetrate deeply how does that contradict the official and unofficial wound descriptions?  Can a poorly penetrated bullet be expunged by flesh & blood organically?  Probably need a pathologist to opine on that.

...

Personally,  I think Landis is a lying POS.
---You can view the bullet,  the one found on Connally's stretcher at Parkland Hospital,  in the Warren Commission photo archives--the rifling marks are visibly seen.  Ergo,  even the most idiotic investigator could easily match it to Oswald's rifle.  Did they?   Never heard otherwise,  did you?
--he says the bullet struck Kennedy in the back,  then became dislodged and fell into the back seat where he found it.  So he admits,  to his knowledge,  the shot obviously came from behind.   And just where was Oswald located?  Behind the motorcade.  Then he asserts "this makes him question the possibility of 2 shooters,  not one."  As Dr. Spock would say,  "illogical,  Captain."
--He claims the bullet must have struck Kennedy in the back,  but is there autopsy records showing 2 wounds in his back,  instead of the one made by the disparaging moniker,  the "magic bullet"?  The one he claims being there would have definitely "left a mark" even if only a bruise.  Did it?   Was there two indications of wounding on Kennedy's back?
I don't remember that being in the autopsy report.  Proven otherwise,  I will retract. 
---Only a small portion of Kennedy's back was exposed,  basically only the top 5 or 6 inches of this shoulders.   If the round was undercharged as he claims,  that means the wound it left would be lower than the neck entrance wound,  which i am assuming it was if his allegations are to be believed.  But how much lower?
When a round leaves the muzzle,  there are 2 vectors of forces acting upon it:  the force of the propellant driving it forward,  and the force of gravity pulling it earthward.   The greater the former,  the farther it will travel before dropping to the ground.  The lesser the former,  the sooner it will drop to the ground.  The constant at which ANY object falls due to the force of gravity acting upon it is 32 ft/sec2 .  Given all the known stats involved (if indeed  there was a second,  lower wound),  just exactly how much lower than the magic bullet's wound  would it be,  if traveling a distance of 285 yds.?   Multiple variables plugged int the equation would give a pretty good indication as to what that distance could possible be.  Me?  I doubt it would have even reached Kennedy's back,  IMHO.
--he says he placed the round on Kennedy's stretcher.  But it was found on Connally's.  His (and others') "explanation" is that it must have rolled from one to the other when the gurneys bumped into one another in the hospital.   ::)
Yet the bullet was found,  after transferring Connally from the gurney to to a bed,   UNDER his leg,  and out of direct sight. 
________________

And one more crock put out by conspiracy theorists I'd like to debunk:
Many,  in fact most,  say there is no way possible for Oswald to cycle the bolt and fire the 3 shots in under the 6 second time elapsed for all 3 shots.
What they stupidly fail to realize is that 3 cyclings of the bolt is not necessary.  Oswald would have assumed the firing position already locked and loaded with the first round ready for firing--no bolt cycling needed.  He would have only needed to cycle the bolt 2 times,  not 3.
____________
Go to the wiki page:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_John_F._Kennedy
Scroll through the pics and see just how it was.
Especially the diagram showing exactly how the so-called "magic bullet" traveled and hit exactly as the Warren Commission proposed. 
Then look at the diagram showing how the critics of the report said it would have had to act in order for it to have hit all it is claimed to have hit in the report. 
When I went to a Mark Lane lecture in 1977,   the latter is exactly how he humorously parodied the bullet's trajectory. 
Lane was an idiotic radical nutjob.  Now whom are you going to believe,  him or your lying eyes?
All evidence thus far points to one shooter and one shooter only:  Oswald.
But as to who put him up to it,  or even allowed him to do it...maybe--yet to be proven or revealed. 
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on September 18, 2023, 09:00:51 AM
Biggest problem I have with Landis is his claim makes less sense if the bullet came from the rear...and without collaboration, other than that Nurse...maybe people get some stuff right and others wrong 2 minutes after or 60 years later...

Anyway, there are holes in the Warren Commission report, the testimony of Dino Brugioni seems very compelling to me, there are conflicting reports of the autopsies, if the kill-shot didn't get doctored to show less brain matter how does that square with a high-velocity rifle shot at close range...the few details in the document trickle out, the refusal of the IC to release all as ordered...there are too many questions unanswered.

Also, how many shot actually fired, how many wounds, why was there a broken windshield in the limo and why was it destroyed?  If Oswald was locked and loaded and spent his first shot as the limo rounded the last turn down Elm (the driver said he had to go slow to turn that big boat) aiming down so steep (and evidence a bullet hit the traffic pole) and triggered the "fireworks" people and agents heard...

Yeah, I have a problem with Oswald alone and I never did many years ago...but there are too many holes in the official narrative...not to mention the altruism of Ruby's actions I find suspect given his associations...

And while not saying the grassy knoll is or is not in play or the single-bullet-theory is wrong, it is possible a flatter easier and straighter rear position in a building along Houston St...

The way the Feds jumped in to deny a local autopsy...

Everything about it just does not pass the smell test IMO...
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Syzygy on September 18, 2023, 01:03:15 PM
Neither do the conspiracy theorists' claims,  of which there are many and varied, pass the smell test. 

There were only 3 shots fired that day and all came from Oswald's direction based on witness testimony and targets struck.  (Connally testified before the Warren Commission that he remembered hearing only 2.)

Remember this?:

 In its 1979 report, the United States House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) concluded that Kennedy was likely "assassinated as a result of a conspiracy". The HSCA did not identify possible conspirators, but concluded that there was "a high probability that two gunmen fired at [the] President". The HSCA's conclusions were largely based on a police Dictabelt recording later debunked by the U.S. Justice Department.

What was heard on that Dictabelt that caused them to speculate "two gunmen instead of one" was what was thought to be a fourth shot.  I don't think it was the Justice Department that debunked that claim,  and only verified what someone else had discovered and reported.  That Dictabelt recording was put on one of those floppy acetate (?) records (33 1/3) and included in some magazine available to the public. 
If I remember correctly,  it was a witness on scene that brought to light the fact that it was the backfire of a cop's motorbike that was heard and NOT another gunshot. 
Both the CIA and the FBI had files on Oswald,  but the CIA had on record (supposedly) his claiming he would kill Kennedy when Oswald visited the Russian Embassy in Mexico City. 
So,  their involvement is not questionable,  in my mind at least,  but to what extent:  did they recruit him or did they just sit back and let it happen when they could have easily prevented it? 
Maybe release of the remaining unreleased files can answer that question. 
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: paulh on September 18, 2023, 01:19:42 PM
Damn buddy, you now believe CIA,FBI, Secret(A Clue) Service now. I remember being approached while in Nam by these people, how did they know I was short?
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on September 18, 2023, 04:21:00 PM
I do not apply equal weight to the various theories, some raise better questions than others and illuminate better motives that others...

Who left the notebook in room 2422 of the Sheraton-Dallas mentioning Oswald assassination of JFK in one releases CIA doc?

The theory postulated in a novel by Stephen Hunter offered up the Dal-Tx building (a easy straight shot down Elm than the alleged Oswald sniper nest on the 6th floor of the book depository) IIRC has never been looked at by anyone then or since...hey, they had their guy...who fled on foot, hopped a bus, smoked a cop and cowered in a movie theater...so smart!  One would think a premeditated assassination of a President would afford a more thoughtful egress from a murder scene than something looking so impromptu and haphazard...

I just do not see the fop Oswald being a mastermind...even when I was young and a lot more naive I thought Oswald a perfect patsy...though I bought a single shooter scenario, just not this idiot...and that sense just got more certain as years rolled on...

Second in the patsy stakes is the low-level mob fop Ruby...what an all-too-easy hothead to wind up and set loose to tie off loose ends...

The hole in the windshield was witnessed...and conveniently the windshield was replaced in an upgrade where it got a hard roof and host of upgrades...two Dallas motorcycle cops said they saw a bullet hole in the front windshield that they could a pencil through...I have not seen that debunked anywhere...

Dovetails with the testimony of Dino Brugioni and the second set of stills created after he completed his work very credible and the CIA photo lab did in fact exists as did the key staff members.  Going to be hard to debunk that...hard to collaborate too unless original stills or original Zapruder pops up out of nowhere...

And the most damning of all is the lame sh*t the CIA spews constantly...

"irreparable harm" if this is released...the Schlessinger memo about the dangers posed by the CIA sent to JFK cannot be released according the the CIA because it will "undermine US security"...

Today we cannot get the Seth Rich data...the Epstein records or little black book...the psycho tranny murderer chick's manifesto still has not been released...it goes on and on... ...see a theme emerging yet?

RFK,Jr is raising heck in the Dem Party...he BLASTED FJB for permanently keeping secrecy on certain JFK assassination records...2 1/2 months later a Fed-plant tries to insert himself into his private security detail...

The CIA is protecting itself...the national security concerns are a ruse for personal security concerns...their institution is rotten, their mission is not the mission of America...it left that far far behind long long ago...and now we have a thoroughly politically-weaponized DOJ and its enforcement goons in FBI, ATF etc...  A shocking outlier?  An all too obvious coincidence that is so coincidental it has to be false?

I'm not torturing or fooling myself...



Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: patentlymn on September 18, 2023, 08:12:27 PM
^^^
Good post.
I never went down the JFK assassination rabbit hole. I would not put it past the CIA to kill JFK.

update
By rabbit hole I meant spending an obsessive amount of time, as I am wont to do and have done.
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Syzygy on September 19, 2023, 01:08:50 AM
Damn buddy, you now believe CIA,FBI, Secret(A Clue) Service now. I remember being approached while in Nam by these people, how did they know I was short?

No,  what I believe,  and after delving into the thing for quite a while now,  is that Oswald WAS the only gunman and
the CIA may or may not have conspired with,  or recruited him to be "it."Or knowing what they claimed to know about Oswald,   simply ignored his threats and let history take it's course--just as damning,  IMO. 

Whatever part the CIA may have played,  I'm still convinced that Oswald was the lone gunman.  I was as skeptical as anyone about the Warren report,  but after going down all the conspiracy theories rabbit holes for a time,  I finally came to the only logical conclusion--Oswald shot Kennedy.  There's just too much evidence pointing to him and only him.  The theorists got nothing but hearsay and rumor. 

Let me ask you,  did anything come out in the 70% of files already released that changed the conclusion that Oswald was the lone gunman?   Nope.  Otherwise the conspiracy theorists would be screaming "I told you so" to the top of their lungs,  and so far,  nary a peep. 

When searching the sixth floor of the Depository, two deputies found an Italian Carcano M91/38 bolt-action rifle.[106][note 10] Oswald had purchased the used rifle the previous March under the alias "A. Hidell" and had it delivered to his Dallas P.O. box.[108] The FBI found Oswald's partial palm print on the barrel,[109][110][note 11] and fibers on the rifle were consistent with those of Oswald's shirt.[113] A bullet found on Governor Connally's hospital gurney and two fragments found in the limousine were ballistically matched to the Carcano.[114]
...

As the limousine passed the grassy knoll,[78] Kennedy was struck a second time, by a fatal shot to the head.[79] The Warren Commission made no finding as to whether this was the second or third bullet fired, and concluded—as did the HSCA—that the second shot to strike Kennedy entered the rear of his head. It then passed in fragments through his skull,
...
Bystander James Tague received a minor wound to the cheek—either from bullet or concrete curb fragments—while standing by the triple underpass.[89] Nine months later, the FBI removed the curb, and spectrographic analysis revealed metallic residue consistent with the lead core in Oswald's ammunition.[90] Tague testified before the Warren Commission and initially stated that he was wounded by either the second or third shot of the three shots that he remembered hearing. When the commission counsel pressed him to be more specific, Tague testified that he was wounded by the second shot.[91] (Considering where he was standing--directly in front of the motorcade--the curb most likely splintered from being hit by one of the fragments from the kill shot round--also proven to be from Oswald's rifle.)


As for Libertas'  "bullet holes through the windshield" narrative,  I have heard that but never seen it proven.  Have also heard that the only thing that was hit involving the windshield was the top of the frame--much more believable,  IMO,  but still not proven (quite possibly from more fragments from the kill shot round as it would be on the same plane).

Did the two cops who "witnessed" the bullet holes testify before the Warren Commission?   The theorists' narrative that the windshield was quickly replaced is really a stretch,  as well.  Why and ordered by whom for what reason?  Was it the same as today,  where windshield replacement and repair technicians will come to you with a readily available windshield for a limousine?   I don't think so.  I call BS on the whole shebang--just too bizarre for any critically thinking skeptic. 
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on September 19, 2023, 09:40:58 AM
The limo actions were ordered by the Secret Service...who gave them the order...? 

As for "the files" why is the CIA dragging it's ass so hard so long on full release?  We used to be a Republic...60 years later who fricken believes there is anything remotely threatening to "national security" in a reasonable man interpretation holding up full disclosure?  Information was withheld from the Warren Commission, the flip-side of your statement is why didn't the Warren Commission interview anybody at the IC Kodak Lab?  The Pelosi Kangaroo Courts didn't interview anybody with exculpatory evidence in the Trump impeachments and the Jan6 political prisoners were also denied exculpatory information...but hey they didn't have testimony or evidence so it doesn't matter, eh?  Why did they not interview the patrolmen?  Just because they didn't know does not mean who they missed were wrong.  It was an incomplete investigation.  LBJ (no uninterested beneficiary of the assassination who IMO cut a deal with the proto-DeepState - he got his enslavement of the permanent underclass crap passed and they got their wars and black budget festivities) hand-picked everyone...including Allen Dulles!

Oswald is a fop, a drifting mentally unspectacular loser.  His actions that day read more like a panicked animal than a criminal mastermind...and none of the evidence produced IMO is conclusive of anything other than he bought an Italian rifle and had prints on it and people saw him with something wrapped he called curtain rods...  Was he there, sure.  Did he actually shoot the shots?  I dunno, nobody ID'd him in the window.  All the people there, all the cameras snapping...not one got even a glance of a shooter.

Same crap today with way better tech...can't ID the pipe bomber (because he is them), can't see what happened to Epstein (in jail!)...but we can get a random pic of MTG vaping in a theater...

Smoke, mirrors and lies...

I came at this from the start thinking lone shooter, it may still be lone shooter...I just do not believe it was the idiot Oswald...

Guess we need to agree to disagree...and thanks to FJB siding with the DeepState the rest of the files will never be learned...

Just another example of what fraud and corruption begets...

Maybe one day the original Zapruder film surfaces...or the original stills from it...

The existing footage is poorly sanitized, has a gap and the so-called kill-shot if indeed from a close range high-powered rifle should look more like a watermelon exploding than a pop-can...
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on November 21, 2023, 11:08:42 AM
I think doctors know what they saw...especially of that generations as opposed to the jab-pimping muppets of today...

https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/jfk-assassination-doctors-break-silence-dispute-key-government-claim-5533076?utm_source=partner&utm_campaign=TheLibertyDaily&src_src=partner&src_cmp=TheLibertyDaily (https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/jfk-assassination-doctors-break-silence-dispute-key-government-claim-5533076?utm_source=partner&utm_campaign=TheLibertyDaily&src_src=partner&src_cmp=TheLibertyDaily)
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on November 22, 2023, 09:25:37 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/7L6njsHw/IMG-1298.jpg)H/T-CTH

How to raise my hand...  ::thinking::

Oh, I got it...

 ::effu::
Title: Re: JFK Assassination Files - To release or not to release?
Post by: Libertas on March 21, 2024, 01:57:13 PM
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/03/exclusive-forensic-analysis-jfk-autopsy-x-rays-national/ (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/03/exclusive-forensic-analysis-jfk-autopsy-x-rays-national/)

Ron Paul always said the day he learned the Deep State was real came into focus November 22, 1963...hard to argue against it.