Author Topic: Oh my my...oh Hell yes!!!  (Read 1243 times)

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Offline Libertas

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We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online Pandora

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Re: Oh my my...oh Hell yes!!!
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2016, 12:36:23 PM »
Newp, no Constitutional Convention, they absolutely cannot be trusted, but we do need an Article V Convention of the States.  If she and her ilk want an Amendment allowing them to leave, they can petition for it when the States are deciding on what to convene.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline Libertas

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Re: Oh my my...oh Hell yes!!!
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2016, 07:09:18 AM »
Agreed.  The CC route would basically be a re-write and that would be hijacked by fifth columnists...I think people call them democrats, progressives, greens...

Article 5 stays within the Constitution, it doesn't throw it out.  And I don't think it would be that hard to get 34 states to pass application resolutions...but the hard part will be getting everyone on board with the purpose...which should be limited to giving states the right to voluntarily leave the union they voluntarily joined to begin with...the passage of time should not have any say in the right to do either!  Once the 34 mark has been passed Congress's hands are tied...all they can do is name the place and time...and if they fail that or push it out too far the states can take action themselves and they have the right to choose their own commissioners to the convention.  Any Amendments passed go to the states for ratification, 1 vote per state regardless of the number of commissioners...and 38 states would have to pass an Amendment to have it take effect.  But in another odd twist of the Constitution...if the Congress choose not to designate the state legislatures as the ratifying authority...it could call for a ratifying convention and then each state would have elections to choose delegates for the ratifying convention.  As we well know latter day politics is corrupt, ripe with fraud, nakedly partisan and filled with active fifth columnists in the D-MC...it is practically a certainty that the Congress would be brow-beat by presstitutes and agitators to choose this latter option...otherwise it may be harder to game the process and extend it out with the intent to kill it.

I'm all for it...but realistically it could be snuffed at any one of a thousand opportunities.

But it is another "we tried" box to check off.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline AlanS

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Re: Oh my my...oh Hell yes!!!
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2016, 11:02:53 AM »
...which should be limited to giving states the right to voluntarily leave the union they voluntarily joined to begin with...

That didn't work out so well the first time it was tried.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Oh my my...oh Hell yes!!!
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2016, 11:53:57 AM »
...which should be limited to giving states the right to voluntarily leave the union they voluntarily joined to begin with...

That didn't work out so well the first time it was tried.

Yeah, the last time was unfortunately an imperfect situation...it had the complication of the unresolved slavery issue...and something like that is always going to have an unpleasant moral stain attached to it no matter what and it tainted a right that should never have been questioned...if not for that complication...

And several key Founders wanted to end that institution one way or another, they failed at the time because to keep the states together meant punting that issue forward...but they failed to resolve it...

Where is the moral stain is reasserting that right now?  There is none!  People on all sides of this issue seem to have common ground on an understanding that a right to go your own way one way or another should have merit, why not put that through the Founders process available to us?

I outright reject any linking between that effort and an effort specifically targeted to the central point - the voluntary membership of a state and its citizens to any confederation...the Founders language on this subject is clear and never better stated than in the Declaration of Independence, slavery of the eighteenth and nineteenth century variant is dead and buried and as such is a non-issue!  The blood shed in that conflict alone should have bought that much!  So, jackasses can try that argument...but it should be spiked down their lying throats if tried!!!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.