It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum

Topics => 2nd Amendment/Firearms => Topic started by: AmericanPatriot on February 09, 2013, 05:40:02 PM

Title: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: AmericanPatriot on February 09, 2013, 05:40:02 PM
 ::rockets::

I went to the gun show today and it was really crowded.

Was there, maybe, less than 2 hours.


Lots of older guns and some that looked intimidating. I didn't really know much about those ones

I have never known a lot about guns. Just had them for hunting.


Left there and went to a newer gun store which was a lot less crowded but they were very low on inventory. Had a nice visit with the personnel and got some cleaning supplies.


Left there and ran some errands then went to another shop about 15 miles in the opposite direction from my house.


Went there with the express intention of picking up a couple Hi Point pistols.

They had sold the last few just minutes before.


I did learn there is a 2 year wait for the 9 mm.

I thought I was interested in 380 or 9mm for my daughter who isn't old enough yet to carry. She'll be 18 in June.


And a 40 or 45 for me.


I like the idea of the Hi Points because they seem to be near indestructible


I looked at a couple other guns including a nice little 9mm by (I think) Taurus.



It was $349 which is about what I could get the 2 Hi Points for. But this one is a lot easier to conceal.
I left my phone  for them to call me when they get the Hi Points in again

On the way home from there, I started to think wider.


I started to consider trading up from some of what I had

(Before they were all lost in the boating accident)


My hunting days are pretty much behind me and I thought about getting some defensive weapons in place of some of the hunting guns.


An important consideration for me is that all the guns were pre-1975 and I doubt that anyone knows they exist. (or did before the boating accident)


There was a 357 S&W revolver, a 32 Winchester Special circa 1943-1948, a Mossberg 12 ga pump with 30" barrel (heavy sucker) as well as a 50 cal Thompson muzzleloader (not percussion)


Would it be wise to try to trade these?


I would still have a 7mm winchester scoped rifle, another shotgun and my old 30-30 plus what I would add.


Kind of thinking an SKS plus the pistols.



I would appreciate your thoughts and advise



Thanks



Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: Glock32 on February 09, 2013, 06:45:04 PM
I probably would not trade any of your existing guns unless you know you're not going to miss them. And if you do decide to trade, make sure you do your research and know what their real value is. When you get into stuff that's a few decades old, a lot of times they can have added value just because there are aficionados out there who favor a particular vintage for whatever reason.

I'd keep the .357 S&W probably, especially being pre-1975. The 1950s through 1970s were quintessential magnum revolver vintage, especially the 70s when Dirty Harry had just come out. I'd still love a S&W Model 29 in .44 Magnum even though I have absolutely no practical use for one.

Regarding the SKS, they are handy little carbines and IMO never quite get the credit they deserve. They were of course overshadowed by the AK-47 which came out only a few years later. But the SKS is more accurate and has a bit of extra power due to the longer barrel. I have a Yugo M59/66 and it's fun to blast cans with.
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: AmericanPatriot on February 09, 2013, 07:06:15 PM
Thanks for the feedback.

I'm not anxious to trade or sell anything but considered it a way to diversify within a budget.

My dad got the 32 for either $5 or $10 from a local guy who put it up for collateral for a loan until next Friday. He never came back to claim it.

It became my deer rifle when I was old enough to hunt.

For some reason, I took dad's 30-30 and this 32 was never shot too much.

I would be hard pressed to count how many deer the 30-30 took.

I do remember coming home from school one day and asked where my dad was.
Mom told me he was hunting.

As I was going back to join him, I heard a lot of shots.
Found dad and a stack of deer

Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: AlanS on February 09, 2013, 07:09:34 PM
......as well as a 50 cal Thompson muzzleloader (not percussion)

Is it a flintlock?
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: Glock32 on February 09, 2013, 07:20:31 PM
Thanks for the feedback.

I'm not anxious to trade or sell anything but considered it a way to diversify within a budget.

My dad got the 32 for either $5 or $10 from a local guy who put it up for collateral for a loan until next Friday. He never came back to claim it.

It became my deer rifle when I was old enough to hunt.

For some reason, I took dad's 30-30 and this 32 was never shot too much.

I would be hard pressed to count how many deer the 30-30 took.

I do remember coming home from school one day and asked where my dad was.
Mom told me he was hunting.

As I was going back to join him, I heard a lot of shots.
Found dad and a stack of deer




Don't trade any of those guns, you will regret it if you do.  You can get plenty of deer rifles, but never another one that your dad got for you.
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: AmericanPatriot on February 09, 2013, 08:17:51 PM
It is a flintlock, AlanS. When I got it, percussion wasn't permitted for hunting in Pa

I'm not anxious to trade any. Just looking at ways to expand things to a little bit more useful if SHTF
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: John Florida on February 09, 2013, 09:20:15 PM
It is a flintlock, AlanS. When I got it, percussion wasn't permitted for hunting in Pa

I'm not anxious to trade any. Just looking at ways to expand things to a little bit more useful if SHTF

   Is the point just to get a couple of pistols?Rifles you have and deer rifles do take other things down too had you not lost it in the boating accident and the shame of it is that the records of those weapons I'm sure are lost in time where as the new stuff has records.
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: AlanS on February 10, 2013, 09:00:09 AM
My suggestion (if you wouldn't have lost them all in the horrific boating accident) would be to keep them all. Long guns will always be handy. Remember, a handgun is used just long enough for you to get to a long gun. ::cool::
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: AmericanPatriot on February 10, 2013, 09:56:22 AM
Thanks for the perspective, John and Alan.

I may have been having a bit of Rambo fantasy weakness.
I'm almost 63 and fat.  Probably won't be leading any assaults.

Couple easily concealed pistols are an interest, though.

The Hi Points give me cheap fiorepower but not easily concealable.

Maybe I need 3 pistols instead of 2?
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: Libertas on February 10, 2013, 11:04:47 AM
I am thinking the Taurus you looked at was probably something like the 740 slim, in .40 it is a potent round and I've shot my brothers at the range, very concealable and sights are decent and is controllable, and they are nearly as affordable as the Hi Points.  I agree that you should have kept the old guns you lost, besides their sentimental and practical use they were owned and have no paper trail.
 ;)
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: AmericanPatriot on February 10, 2013, 11:45:13 AM
I have been going around on some of the points you made, Libertas.

What do you think about about something like the Taurus in maybe a 9mm for it's smallness and a Hi Point 40 for creating a commotion?

Also, on another forum, someone suggested getting an 18" barrel for the Mossberg.

Cabelas has them for $99.
They say "cylinder bore". Not sure what that is

That seems like something that makes sense.
If I hadn't lost it in the boating accident

Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: Pandora on February 10, 2013, 12:03:44 PM
I have been going around on some of the points you made, Libertas.

What do you think about about something like the Taurus in maybe a 9mm for it's smallness and a Hi Point 40 for creating a commotion?

Also, on another forum, someone suggested getting an 18" barrel for the Mossberg.

Cabelas has them for $99.
They say "cylinder bore". Not sure what that is

That seems like something that makes sense.
If I hadn't lost it in the boating accident

Gunsmith says it could mean "rifled bore" or "smooth bore"; put the link up, he'll take a look at it.
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: trapeze on February 10, 2013, 02:52:36 PM
I am thinking the Taurus you looked at was probably something like the 740 slim, in .40 it is a potent round and I've shot my brothers at the range...


Proper punctuation is a powerful thing. ;D
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: AmericanPatriot on February 10, 2013, 04:24:23 PM
Tell Gunsmith thanks for me

http://www.cabelas.com/barrels-chokes-mossberg-replacement-shotgun-barrels-1.shtml (http://www.cabelas.com/barrels-chokes-mossberg-replacement-shotgun-barrels-1.shtml)

It's the top one on the chart 1/2 way down the page

Item number: IK - 212148
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: John Florida on February 10, 2013, 05:48:09 PM
Tell Gunsmith thanks for me

http://www.cabelas.com/barrels-chokes-mossberg-replacement-shotgun-barrels-1.shtml (http://www.cabelas.com/barrels-chokes-mossberg-replacement-shotgun-barrels-1.shtml)

It's the top one on the chart 1/2 way down the page

Item number: IK - 212148

  The reason for it is because they're all slug barrels which is also why some are rifled,they also have scope mounts which you would not need if you were bird hunting.
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: AmericanPatriot on February 10, 2013, 06:49:01 PM
Ahhh, I wondered what the scope mount was doing on there

Looked some other places and the 18" barrels were a lot more
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: Pandora on February 10, 2013, 06:54:15 PM
Gunsmith talking here:

Ok, I understand now we're talking about the choke tube.  Basically, the one you're looking at means the inside diameter of the choke tube is a slightly smaller diameter of the bore of the rest of the barrel.  Chokes alter the shot pattern of the shotgun making it tighter and tighter depending on which choke is chosen.  Has nothing to do with smooth or rifled.
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: John Florida on February 10, 2013, 07:07:07 PM
Ahhh, I wondered what the scope mount was doing on there

Looked some other places and the 18" barrels were a lot more


   Which barrel choke and length  do you have now and what are you trying to achieve?
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: AmericanPatriot on February 10, 2013, 07:32:02 PM
I have a 30" barrel full choke.
Heavier than Hades
It was suggested, and it seemed to make sense to me, that this would make a good home defense gun.
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: AmericanPatriot on February 10, 2013, 08:17:23 PM
Maybe this is what I may be looking for for my Mossberg

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/748383/mossberg-barrel-mossberg-500-12-gauge-3-18-1-2-cylinder-bore-with-bead-sight-steel-blue (http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/748383/mossberg-barrel-mossberg-500-12-gauge-3-18-1-2-cylinder-bore-with-bead-sight-steel-blue)

Product #: 748383 Mossberg #: 90015UPC #: 00015813900157

If anyone here (Gunsmith) sells this stuff, I would rather buy from someone here.

Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: John Florida on February 10, 2013, 08:25:49 PM
I have a 30" barrel full choke.
Heavier than Hades
It was suggested, and it seemed to make sense to me, that this would make a good home defense gun.


   So check around for a 24/26 in barrel with an "improved choke: and compare the weight between What you have and what you lose by shortening the barrel.  BTW the reason I say "improved choke" is so the pattern spreads at a shorter range than the other two.
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: charlesoakwood on February 10, 2013, 08:50:41 PM

Isn't "cylinder bore" a "no choke" IOW the largest exit bore diameter.
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: Libertas on February 10, 2013, 09:39:36 PM

Isn't "cylinder bore" a "no choke" IOW the largest exit bore diameter.


Should be, unless someone is referring to "improved cylinder/cylinder" choke and got their terms mixed up.
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: John Florida on February 10, 2013, 10:04:20 PM

Isn't "cylinder bore" a "no choke" IOW the largest exit bore diameter.


  Barrels are made to three chokes that I know of besides a slug barrel. The reason is depending on what your going after and where you're hunting.Short range an improver barrel or choke med. range a modified choke and full choke for longer distances and then barrel length comes into play the longer the barrel the tighter the grouping farther out,the shorter the barrel the sooner the grouping starts to spread out.

   Some shotguns are built to have different choke tubes screwed in to change the barrel choke and some you change the barrel if the gun isn't set up with changeable tubes that would be screwed in.
  I found this and hope it explains it better than I did.

Interchangeable Shotgun Chokes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb5yMz7zUJY#ws)
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: charlesoakwood on February 10, 2013, 11:53:31 PM

So the shortest barrel with no choke, the slug barrel?, would have the widest spread?
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: Libertas on February 11, 2013, 04:49:22 AM
Strike the slug barrel and you are correct.  Slug barrels are for slugs only and you wouldn't want to shoot shot out of a slug barrel.
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: AlanS on February 11, 2013, 02:56:41 PM
If you're looking for something small to conceal easily, check out one of these. Retail is $299 for the blued version.

http://sccy.com/ (http://sccy.com/)

(http://sccy.com/images/01.jpg)
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: charlesoakwood on February 11, 2013, 03:27:08 PM

Alan, that's a nice looking pistol.  They say it's a double action trigger but it looks like an automatic.

And Libertas, continuing the lesson; one doesn't want to shoot shot out of a slug barrel, may one shoot slugs from a shot barrel or must one have a specific barrel for each purpose?
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: Glock32 on February 11, 2013, 03:47:14 PM
You can have double action on a semi-automatic too. Double action means the pull of the trigger performs two actions, cocking and releasing the hammer (or striker as the case may be). Same concept as in a revolver where a double action trigger cocks the hammer and rotates the cylinder. In both cases it just means you're doing two things with one trigger pull, and the cocking action is what makes it a heavier trigger pull.
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: John Florida on February 11, 2013, 04:31:40 PM

Alan, that's a nice looking pistol.  They say it's a double action trigger but it looks like an automatic.

And Libertas, continuing the lesson; one doesn't want to shoot shot out of a slug barrel, may one shoot slugs from a shot barrel or must one have a specific barrel for each purpose?


  I beleive you can shoot slugs out of a modifies barrel but not as well as a slug barrel.
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: Glock32 on February 11, 2013, 05:07:59 PM
If you want to shoot slugs out of a smooth bore, make sure you get rifled slugs. The slug itself has slanted rifling that imparts a twist as it goes down the bore (ETA - I was wrong about this. Apparently the ribs don't act as rifling but merely to compress so the slug can go through a choke). Unrifled slugs are wrapped in a plastic sabot that depends on the barrel having its own rifling. You could technically fire one out of a smooth bore but don't expect any kind of accuracy.

Here's a good image of the different types:

(http://i40.tinypic.com/qnl95l.jpg)

The Brenneke and Foster are the two major styles of rifled slugs. I'm partial to Brenneke style, for no particular reason.


As for the rifled slug barrel, shooting lead shot out of it will result in crappy shot patterns due to the impacts with the rifling on the way down the barrel. And that's the best case scenario. If you tried to shoot steel shot out of a rifled barrel, it would damage the rifling
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: charlesoakwood on February 11, 2013, 10:31:29 PM

Seems as if slugs would be a useful item during a SHTF situation.  I can't imagine, off the cuff, the situation but a big sucker like one of those must be a winners in that certain situation. 
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: Glock32 on February 11, 2013, 11:09:34 PM
The first time I ever fired a slug it was a Brenneke like the one pictured above, target was an old 32" tube TV. It was satisfying as hell.
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: trapeze on February 12, 2013, 12:24:42 AM
I got a hold of a scrap stainless steel boiler heat exchanger last summer and used it for target practice with my Mossberg 500 loaded with slugs. It was very effective at punching holes right through the thing from about 15 yards away.

(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/954/img0376hn.jpg)

I want to try an old water heater next.
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: Libertas on February 12, 2013, 06:38:13 AM
Glock has it right on slugs, I would only add that what you get with a slug round is basically a big fat hollow point, once that round hits flesh it will expand and as you can already see they ain't small to begin with, so roughly speaking inside of 100 yards you could do a lot of damage on encroachers with a magazine full of slugs.  It is one of the few flavors I want to buy more of.

Nice pic Trap!  (That water heater test should be interesting!)
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: charlesoakwood on February 23, 2013, 10:57:51 AM

Stumbled on this interesting exhibition of shotgun shooting.


Shotgun Slugs at 230 Yards:

Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNTyCcip-ks&list=UUvB3solmhqtgDeLpD-yTtfg&index=430 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNTyCcip-ks&list=UUvB3solmhqtgDeLpD-yTtfg&index=430)


Close ups at about 8:00

Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: Libertas on February 24, 2013, 12:09:17 PM
Our man Hikock45, he's got quite the range.  Nice fat holes, and 230yds with iron sights?  Damn good shootin'!  Since he's using smooth bore he's using rifled slugs.  Pretty nice.  Look forward to seeing Trap's water-heater!
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: AmericanPatriot on February 24, 2013, 01:01:19 PM
Yesterday, did just a little bit of shooting.  ::rockets::

It was more to get my daughter used to a gun and some basics.  My son has been bugging me to shoot the old 32 Special and I wanted to put a couple rounds through the new Hi Point 45.

Shes almost 18 and he's almost 22

Had daughter start with the old 22 single shot. Set up a few tin cans about 25 yards or so away..
She did pretty good.  And really liked it   ::bustamove::

I shot a couple rounds from that.

Eyes are bad; open sights are a real challenge but I can still hit fairly decently.

I was never a marksman but was always a good meat shot. Didn't miss food a lot.

Daughter also shot the 45 but son wouldn't.

He kept telling her that she was afraid of guns but he wouldm't shoot a pistol

It was fun

Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: Libertas on February 24, 2013, 01:20:54 PM
Sounds like a fine day AP!   ::thumbsup::
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: AmericanPatriot on February 24, 2013, 01:41:54 PM
It was good, Libertas.

I do need to practice a bit more with the 45
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: Libertas on February 24, 2013, 01:50:36 PM
I hear ya.  Practice is good and its fun, its just not so cheap now with ammo scarce.  I have my stash I don't want to touch (darn boating accident!) and some sundry odd rounds for range shots, once (if) inventories replenish I'll have to get some more FMJ to plink with.  I have to remember to rotate my options and not get too infatuated with one, else I may not be proficient enough should the need arise.  I mean, dang, boating accident!
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: AmericanPatriot on February 24, 2013, 02:23:37 PM
I'm amazed at how common boating accidents are.

We probably need an Executive Order banning boats because they just too darn dangeroud
Title: Re: Went to a gun show today and have some thoughts
Post by: charlesoakwood on February 24, 2013, 02:47:55 PM

"Life is good."