It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => World/Foreign Affairs => Topic started by: patentlymn on August 31, 2023, 11:58:33 AM
-
I am watching more of Bald and Bankrupt videos.
I do not pretend to understand the ethnic history of everywhere on earth but know it is complex.
I wanted to create an intro before I write about Georgia and a heart breaking video.
In the USSR, from what I know:
1. There were lots of Russians in the Russian Empire. No surprise. There were lots of other ethnic groups in the Russian empire as well. It varied by region.
2. Lenin drew oblast/vassal country borders to include various ethnic groups to prevent any ethnostates from forming that could challenge commie rule.
3. Stalin transported some ethnic groups to other regions to reduce rebellious minorities. E.g. Tartars from Crimea to Siberia. YT person Eli from Russia is Tartar, from Perm Siberia. Dunno her family history.
4. Stalin shipped Russians into some areas.
5. When USSR fell apart Russians left some regions and their economy fell apart. Maybe like when the Romans left Britain?
There were Poles centered around Lvov, Ukrainians around Kiev, Russians around Kharkov, and Russians and Tartars in Crimea.
When the tzar fell each of the 4 regions declared themselves independent countries but the commies ended that. Stalin later deported lots of Tartars.
Lenin drew borders to include Poles, Ukrainians, and Russians and called it Ukraine. Russians in eastern Ukraine declined some as percentage since 1900 as Ukrainians moved in for economic advantage. This was from census data I found a while back.
Ukraine western border changed with WWII.
-
This is sad. Scott Ritter is married to a Georgian woman as I recall. He told this story of the civil war. He said that the Georgians kicked off the war by attacking the Abkhaz people living in the Abkhazia region. From memory, some Georgian politician wanted to score points. Then the Abkhaz counter attacked and drove out the Georgians living there. A woman describes what Ritter said. Fleeing over the mountains in the cold for days.
I believe the Abkhaz are Turkic, not Russian or Slavs.
Later the US Marines trained the Georgian troops who attacked people living in South Ossetia, along the northern Georgia border with Russia. Russia counter attacked. Russia may have peace keeping troops there still. Dunno.The Georgian president who did this was forced out of office as I recall. Works in DC. The US likes to cause trouble on Russia's border.
I learn some history from Bald. The USSR both oppressed and protected people. Here they live in an abandoned sanitarium in Georgia.
https://youtu.be/yjF4jiOOdPY
She Has Lived In This Hotel For 25 Years!
bald and bankrupt
3.85M subscribers
1,939,712 views Jul 7, 2019
🇬🇪 After the fall of the USSR ancient resentments and rivalries that had been kept in check for 70 years suddenly rose up leading to outbreaks of civil wars in various former Soviet Republics. Once such war broke out in the small sub-tropical region of Abkhazia on Georgia's north west coast. The Georgian people were forced to flee over the mountains leaving everything behind. I found some of those refugees still living in the empty shells of Soviet hotels some 25 years on and went to ask them about their story.
@user-kq2he4fd2q
1 year ago
Thanks to the authors, u ' re very friendly. I was 12 and my sister 8 during the war.it was September, so we wore shorts and t-shirts when we left Sokhumi, and whatever we had, worse years were awaited us. Now i 'm 41, we have not got our home for so many years. The war left a psychological mark. It's sad that war destroys the lives of innocent people. ?
-
As I recall, the US recently pumped money into Georgia, to pay for protests against a proposed law that would expose the foreign sources of NGOs inside Georgia. US senators and EU officials complained about the law. Even though both have such laws themselves.
-
Here is the original Ritter post I made.
Ritter mentions demonstrators in Rustaveli Plaza in Tbilisi Georgia shouting "Sokhumi" that is in an apparently autonomous region that used to be part of Georgia?, meaning they want to take it back? At first Ritter tells the story of his Georgian father in law who fought against the Abkhazians apparently. Ritter rants and tells a story about his father in law who held a bridge at Sohkumi so civilians could flee then over the mountains E through the Kodori Gorge where they were robbed and shot at by Abkha snipers. He could not carry all the still live babies in the snow. Left some.
18 min https://youtu.be/rJdDyp0RAEc?t=1087
39 min Then Ritter goes into how and why the US is trying to destabilize Georgia like they did in Ukraine. That is the good part. The US is trying to start a civil war? Another coup? Ritter gets real upset at what the US is trying to do.
https://youtu.be/rJdDyp0RAEc?t=2316
Georgian Civil War 1992 involving the Abkhazians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Abkhazia_(1992%E2%80%931993)
The War in Abkhazia was fought between Georgian government forces for the most part and Abkhaz separatist forces, Russian government armed forces and North Caucasian militants between 1992 and 1993. Ethnic Georgians who lived in Abkhazia fought largely on the side of Georgian government forces. Ethnic Armenians and Russians[9] within Abkhazia's population largely supported the Abkhazians[10][11][12] and many fought on their side. The separatists received support from thousands of North Caucasus and Cossack militants and from the Russian Federation forces stationed in and near Abkhazia.[13][14]
The handling of this conflict was aggravated by the civil strife in Georgia proper (between the supporters of the ousted Georgian president, Zviad Gamsakhurdia – in office 1991–1992 – and the post-coup government headed by Eduard Shevardnadze) as well as by the Georgian–Ossetian conflict of 1989 onwards.
Significant human rights violations and atrocities were reported on all sides, peaking in the aftermath of the Abkhaz capture of Sukhumi on 27 September 1993, which (according to the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe) was followed by a large-scale campaign of ethnic cleansing against the ethnic Georgian population.[15] A fact-finding mission dispatched by the UN Secretary General in October 1993 reported numerous and serious human rights violations committed both by Abkhazians and by Georgians.[16] Approximately 5,000 ethnic Georgians and 4,000 Abkhaz were reported killed or missing, and 250,000 Georgians became internally displaced or refugees.[3][4]
The war heavily affected post-Soviet Georgia, which suffered considerable financial, human and psychological damage. The fighting and subsequent continued sporadic conflict have devastated Abkhazia. In Abkhazia the conflict is officially named Patriotic War of the People of Abkhazia.[17
...
After taking Sukhumi, Georgian forces (including Mkhedrioni paramilitaries) engaged in "vicious, ethnically based pillage, looting, assault and murder."[20]
Map of Abkhazi.
At 40 min Ritter goes into what the US is trying to do in Georgia $40 min from USAID alone to Georgia.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Abkhazia_(1992%E2%80%931993)#/media/File:1992_Georgia_war.svg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Abkhazia_map-en.svg)
-
I had watched some docs on the USSR.
I found them interesting.
I trust videos like those from Bald and Bankrupt and similar people the most.
I have noticed that sometimes people say they miss the USSR. I was shocked. I thought their memories were faulty but then again what do I know? I have heard some modern young people in former USSR ask how their parents were able to afford to raise them.
I am well aware of the death toll from communism in USSR and even worse in China.
I was surprised to believe that not everything was bad.
I think sometimes the fall of the USSR meant an opportunity for people to loot the countries. Some guy in Moldova ranted to Bald about how much worse things were now than under USSR. Life got much worse under Yeltsin as those inside and outside of USSR looted the place.
Here are some docs i watched.
https://youtu.be/Hlb-HwxUxSU
The Human Face of Russia (1984) - society and everyday life in 1980s USSR
https://youtu.be/GAVqM4geAAk
USSR Memories - Daily life of a Russian family in the Soviet Union | Part 1
https://youtu.be/YkWEDJXtsA0
Memories of USSR - Daily life of Russians in the Soviet Union | Part 2
-
More docs. This narrator Setarko is pretty good. Dry sense of humor.
BTW people still live in the communal apartments, mostly young single people.
https://youtu.be/zZhGrjPavII
What’s Inside a Typical Soviet Apartment?
Setarko
https://youtu.be/ZN-419d7vt4
Khrushchyovka - UGLIEST Old Soviet Apartment Building?
Setarko
55.3K subscribers
1,076,058 views Oct 20, 2020
You always wanted to live in an old soviet apartment in the most soviet building of all time? You dream can come true - just visit Russia and rent an apartment in Khrushchyovka (or Khruschhevka). Believe me, little USSR fan, you won't regret living in this amazing russian commieblock! (you probably will). Let's talk about this diamond of soviet arthitecture and find out why khrushchyyovkas are not as bad as they seem on the first sight.
https://youtu.be/yxmfyJ0xwWo
How do Russians live? Communal apartments
Natasha's Russia
https://youtu.be/X3QEzdDoDSQ
Communal Apartments In Soviet Union - History of "Kommunalka"
Setarko
Communal apartments or kommunalkas appeared in the Soviet Union following the Russian revolution in 1917. It was seen as a product of the "new collective vision of the future" and as a good solution to the housing crisis in the urban areas of USSR. Let's see how the life in communal apartments was arranged and why some people still live in them in the 21st century.
https://youtu.be/NC8mME1-GR4
Brezhnevka - Soviet Panel Building That Defined Russia's Modern Identity
Setarko
55.3K subscribers
335,543 views May 18, 2021
You always liked gray colors? You love panels? Khrushchyovka is your favourite building of all time? Fear not, I present to you the ADVANCED version of Khrushchyovka, still gray and ugly, but now it can be up to 25 stories and up to a kilometer long. When Leonid Brezhnev came to power, he decided to build on the work of his predecessor and continue to erect identical panel houses on the whole territory of the Soviet Union. Nowadays a panel Brezhnevka is the most common type of building you can find in Russia. Let's talk about them and about how they were about to build a whole culture of doomers around themselves.
-
These trains are run by students. Toward the end of the second video they say that in some European countries they eliminated these trains and programs in anti USSR moves as they are considered relics of the evil empire. The first one was actually in Gorky Park Moscow? BUT Stalin wanted to give pride of place to his native Georgia so he erased most mentions of the Moscow RR and credits Georgia with the first such RR.
https://youtu.be/q6Cc_vmlzwQ (https://youtu.be/q6Cc_vmlzwQ)
Far East Children's Railway in Khabarovsk Russia.
C57128
931 subscribers
2,072 views Jul 28, 2018
A children's railway is an extracurricular educational institution, where teenagers learn railway professions. This phenomenon originated in the USSR and was greatly developed in Soviet times.
Many children's railways are still functioning in post-Soviet states and Eastern European countries.
...
This is beyond cute. They start in 5th grade?
https://youtu.be/kDlsXUMqMxw (https://youtu.be/kDlsXUMqMxw)
Full-Fledged Railways Ran By Kids: Children's Railways Of Eastern Europe
Railways of the World
15.8K subscribers
154,708 views Mar 24, 2021 #train #railway #education
Who of us, as a kid, did not want to become a train driver? Not everyone manages to carry their love of the railway by the time they make a career choice, but what if I told you that there is a place on Earth, where being just a teenager you can already drive a real train?
https://youtu.be/x-yGtFsAYAQ (https://youtu.be/x-yGtFsAYAQ)
RUSSIA: THE "LITTLE BEE" CHILDREN'S RAILWAY LINE
AP Archive
4.92M subscribers
6,141 views Jul 21, 2015
(21 Jul 1996) Russian/Nat
Children have always played with train sets, dreaming of becoming train drivers when they grow up. But Russian youngsters have gone one better - they run their own railway line.
The "Little Bee" railway was dreamed-up under former dictator Josef Stalin to instruct children in the work ethic of communist society.
Now it's just for fun. But financial problems in the wake of communism's collapse are threatening to derail one of the Soviet Union's strangest - and most endearing - legacies.
This must be the biggest toy train in the world.
Most children only dream of becoming train drivers. These Russian youngsters are doing it for real.
Every summer vacation, over a thousand boys and girls get the chance to play with a train set their Western contemporaries could scarcely even imagine.
The "Little Bee" children's railway is one of more than 20 similar lines across Russia.
But despite the holiday atmosphere, the children's railways have a sinister past.
Stalin's transport minister set them up in the 1930s to train youngsters to keep the Soviet Union rolling if war took their fathers to the frontline.
Other children found themselves working the points and collecting tickets when both parents were locked away in prison camps.
But unlike other relics of Soviet childhood, the "Little Bee" still attracts scores of eager Russian kids.
Take Dima, who has been working this line for three summers now.
As the driver's assistant, he is fiercely proud of his work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_railway (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_railway)
http://www.dzd-ussr.ru/english/ (http://www.dzd-ussr.ru/english/)
http://www.dzd-ussr.ru/towns/index-eng.html (http://www.dzd-ussr.ru/towns/index-eng.html)
(http://www.dzd-ussr.ru/towns/ussr-map.gif)
-
Fast paced questions of older Russians on whether they miss the USSR (yes, many things).
Do you want it back (no or not possible).
https://youtu.be/PiAHtm9yEu4
Elderly People Describe How Was The USSR |The Soviet Union NOSTALGIA |
StreetTalk
46.5K subscribers
122,721 views Sep 15, 2020 MOSCOW
In This Series Of Russia Public Interview We Make Street Interview With People In Moscow And In This Video We Asked Russian Elders About the USSR and How Life Was During the Soviet Union, How was it in the USSR?, Is there anything you miss and nostalgic about during the Soviet Union?, Would you like to return the USSR?
https://youtu.be/YcBKRMJI7Ck
Soviet Television and Radio - COLD WAR DOCUMENTARY
The Cold War
-
Some the propaganda I knew about and laughable. Some others may not have been accurate then but more so now!
https://youtu.be/lKfD9rI4a9E
Soviet Anti-American Propaganda - Cold War DOCUMENTARY
The answer below is no, then yes, then less so but parents preferred Russian for kids for career reasons. Initially there was even affirmative action by ethnic/nationality. USSR developed scripts for languages that did not have them. 48 new scripts. Some Latin rather than Cyrillic especially for Arabic scripts. 66 languages new or converted to Latin script.
https://youtu.be/ynA-8oW3b3g
Did the Soviet Union Russify Other Nationalities? - Cold War DOCUMENTARY
-
1932, education in 104 different languages. Russian used for inter ethnic communications.
Later in 1939 Russian was required as a language in USSR. To reduce translation and allow conscripts to communicate.
1959 law change allowed parents three choices. RU as language of instruction and no local language taught. 2. RU instruction plus local language as a subject. 3. Local as instruction lang plus RU as a subject. Sometimes parents not notified of choices. Parents often chose RU for career reasons.
Some former Arabic script changed to Latin changed to Cyrillic at some point.
Some education languages dropped in late 50s. In RSFSR dropped from 47 in 60s, 1982 only 17. Lack of interest and lack of teachers.
RSFSR = Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic as well as being unofficially known as the Russian Federation, Soviet Russia, or simply Russia.
-
I saw Bald and Bankrupt where he went to Moldova.People said things were better under USSR. This explains post USSR history. Oligarchs and politicians looted the place. Did Transnistria avoid this?
18 min. In 2014 banks were taken over, loans not paid bank, money ended up in Latvia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Moldovan_bank_fraud_scandal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Moldovan_bank_fraud_scandal)
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33166383 (https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33166383)
It's a mystery that's thrown Europe's poorest nation into deep crisis - $1bn has vanished from three of Moldova's leading banks, much of it passing through UK companies. A confidential report has blamed 28-year-old businessman, Ilan Shor, but in an exclusive BBC interview he proclaims his innocence.
https://youtu.be/bf0j26bCbkA?t=639 (https://youtu.be/bf0j26bCbkA?t=639)
How the Rich Ate Moldova
Asianometry
-
https://y.yarn.co/f85f10c5-638c-4a40-9d3d-fc7d91d9a0f1.mp4
-
https://y.yarn.co/f85f10c5-638c-4a40-9d3d-fc7d91d9a0f1.mp4
What is he saying? What am I seeing?
-
https://y.yarn.co/f85f10c5-638c-4a40-9d3d-fc7d91d9a0f1.mp4
What is he saying? What am I seeing?
From the movie "RED" - Moldova Sucks! ::hysterical::
-
Another video interviewing 3 people from former USSR. In short, things were OK. Hard to compare with now. One said health care was better then. 1990s were terrible. People are meaner now said all 3 in different ways.
The last person, an older man, in Moscow but from Ukraine as a boy remembers the retreating Germans, retreating ahead of the Red Army. He ran away as fast as he could. The Germans set fire to his house and he stills sees this in his mind.
Reminded me of the telegram civilian testimonies when I watched too many. People in Mariupol said they were invaded by Ukr troops who used their apts as firing positions. After return fire from DPR/RU they often set fire to the apts.
In another small town a woman said the damage to the stores on main street were from retreating Kiev forces.
Some church caretaker said the holes in the tower were from retreating Kiev forces tank who said they used the wrong words. Liturgy?
From Ukr social media posts I kept hearing the Kiev troops say they wanted to drive subhuman Russians from their land, even though the regions were ethnic Russian, not ethnic Ukrainian. So it all fits together.
https://youtu.be/ui11x8vLQFI?t=225
Does Socialism Work? Soviet Citizens Speak About Their Lives in the USSR (Moscow)
TheRevolutionReport
-
I like these low level docs that interview real people and make me rethink things. bald and Bankrupt started me down this road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGUAIwlVR9A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGUAIwlVR9A)
@dawnsshine
@dawnsshine
1 year ago
Well, socialism was nice for low-middle classes. I remember my grandma from moldova said she was able to feed 2 children, have an 3-rooms apartment for a little money (she cooked for a restaurant and was a sigle mom). Her children ALWAYS had nice clothes, went every summer to the sea (odessa, crimea).
Those days a cooker for a canteen can give so much to her children? Of course not.
Lets day under socialism things were more equal, super rich were only a small group of people.
In some sense it was better that way. All people cooperated.
Nowadays people are not so kind anymore, and we have HUGE differences between super rich and super poor.
There were bad things in socialism too, of course, but capitalism have them as well (but with socialism you dont die of staveness, they would find you a job even if you dont want to).
What destroyed the soviet were the american propaganda and the infiltration of nazi in poland baltics etc... where they made them think soviet is bad.
....but. look at Lituania of example... 20 years in EU but there are more poors on streets that in 1980 🙄 i saw so many old people begging for you to buy their hand-made stuff, that in any other country. It was hearbreaking.
-
24 min lecture on Ukraine. Sachs was there around the time of the 2014 coup, a little after.
He had enough clout to get WH access in Dec 2021. Backs my idea that the US govt wanted war.
I wonder if he was a cause of the horrible economy of Russia in the 1990s. He was an advisor to Russia.
https://youtu.be/YUifh-Wud4g
Jeffrey Sachs Interview - The US and Ukraine - A Deeper Look
-
The USSR was morally and literally bankrupt...you're going to have to define "horrible economy" because the mob-led free for all (and eventual emergence and legitimization of the oligarchy) was still economically better than the dying USSR era of empty shelves and endemic alcoholism...the former which can hardly be a result of yankee imperialist influence since it is a genetic predisposition in the Rus gene...
::hysterical::
-
I recall that avg age of male deaths dropped by around 10 years after USSR fell. People who lived through it describe that period as hell. Yeltsin is despised today. Not sure about Brezhnev and Gorbachev. All property in USSR 'belonged' to the people, but under control of party. After the collapse, somehow, most became property of some oligarchs. That happened differently in different regions. Somehow, in Russia, much control was taken back from the oligarchs, maybe gangster style.
Ukraine was predicted to be the best performing part of former USSR thanks to resources and educated workforce, industry. In Ukr the oligarchs retained most ownership so it did not do well. Also the corruption was real bad. In the news and in movies there were stories of military equipment like helicopters being sold for pennies on the dollar. Most of that was in Ukraine.
I posted links to docs on life in USSR with lots of videos of work places, shops, apartments. They gave a detailed view of all this. Prices, waiting lists. I just watched a doc on Soviet furniture. Mostly made in Soviet eastern Russia. Decent quality.
I like man on the street interviews of older people. I was surprised at some positive opinions of the old USSR. Bald and Bankrupt, Eli from Russia and others ask questions of old people. They say that they never went hungry. They likely refer to 1960s forward. People did go hungry, I think, after the collapse. Not now.
Here is 2 minute video of Putin with factory owners.
https://youtu.be/3GsDLrUieJg
Putin Calls Billionaire Oligarchs "Cockroaches" For Closing Factory Live On Camera
-
They must have been high up in the party ranks to not be hungry...or peasant farmers stashing aside some state-owned produce...
;)
-
They must have been high up in the party ranks to not be hungry...or peasant farmers stashing aside some state-owned produce...
;)
The people questioned were pensioners on the street. They mentioned the good and the bad. Some things were better now, some worse. Such questions were on maybe 3 different videos from different people. Food wasn't an issue. Not as much variety as now.
I watched one on religion. Lots of ups and downs. Khrushchev was very anti religious. Commies mostly left Muslims alone because too much relied on it. One doc was on commie youth groups.
-
They must have been high up in the party ranks to not be hungry...or peasant farmers stashing aside some state-owned produce...
;)
The people questioned were pensioners on the street. They mentioned the good and the bad. Some things were better now, some worse. Such questions were on maybe 3 different videos from different people. Food wasn't an issue. Not as much variety as now.
I watched one on religion. Lots of ups and downs. Khrushchev was very anti religious. Commies mostly left Muslims alone because too much relied on it. One doc was on commie youth groups.
Being a skeptic I have to believe these are rural folks closer to the source than urban serfs...
-
They must have been high up in the party ranks to not be hungry...or peasant farmers stashing aside some state-owned produce...
;)
The people questioned were pensioners on the street. They mentioned the good and the bad. Some things were better now, some worse. Such questions were on maybe 3 different videos from different people. Food wasn't an issue. Not as much variety as now.
I watched one on religion. Lots of ups and downs. Khrushchev was very anti religious. Commies mostly left Muslims alone because too much relied on it. One doc was on commie youth groups.
Being a skeptic I have to believe these are rural folks closer to the source than urban serfs...
One video was from Moscow. Maybe we were fed a lot of crap in our news. All said they had a happy childhood in USSR. Many mentioned summer vacations mostly paid for by workplaces or youth organizations. I saw a BBC special on life in the USSR. Not a lot of material wealth. Lots of videos.
Of course these people were not alive in 1920s or 1930s. The 1940s were very hard even if not in the military. A recall a million died/starved in the siege of Leningrad. The Finns helped with that. Some Russians wanted payback. USSR settled on a treaty "in perpetuity" to not join any military block.
I saw one video with now abandoned small spartan cottages on the black sea. Basically free for people from various organizations in USSR. Things were very structured, whether you liked it or not. Not all bad. I recall jobs were picked for you. Khrushchev built the commie block apts starting in 1950s. Ugly but functional and put up quick. Prefab slabs.
After the revolution lots of big buildings were divided up into communal apts with shared bathrooms and kitchens. I recall We the Living by Ayn Rand in mansions where commies allowed the owners to have one room with the rest given out. They still exist in St. Petersburg for people who want to live like that for cheap. The rooms now have deeds and are sold to people. Fascinating.
I recall the USSR kept lots of German POWs a long time for construction work.
Amateur video blogs are fascinating. I believe them now more than any news. Some NZ guy hitch hiked through Iran. Nice people. People asked about the old USSR give varied answers partly depending on location. In some the new govts realized there were no limits on what they could loot. In the USSR there were limits and structure. Oppression and protection.
https://youtu.be/OGyUuSZGKPI
94,144 views Sep 22, 2016
16 families sharing one apartment - the days of the Kommunalkas seem to be back in St. Petersburg. Communal apartments in older buildings are a relic of the Soviet era and starkly out of step with the grandeur of the world-famous Venice of the North.
-
Short history of Russian housing after revolution.
https://youtu.be/lazVrmC7IVQ
How Khrushchev Housed Everyone - Cold War Soviet History DOCUMENTARY
The Cold War
-
What about the 18 million housed in gulags and the 1.7 million who perished as a result? Political dissidents and non-conformists of the communist utopia should have more weight given to their voices...
-
What about the 18 million housed in gulags and the 1.7 million who perished as a result? Political dissidents and non-conformists of the communist utopia should have more weight given to their voices...
That is well known and well covered in many docs I have watched. I am well aware of the horrors of communism. Mao was even worse and more recently and just evil and crazy. I like history.
Bald and Bankrupt started me down this path. He interviewed some older people. Then others did more interviews. I only knew of the bad aspects of USSR. I guess that is all I ever heard was bad stuff. I like learning things that modify my views. Maybe all I was fed was an anti communist narrative?
Khrushchev closed the Gulags in maybe late 1950s. That also freed lots of Ukr NAZIs who returned to Kiev to enter politics. Also they fled to US and Canada. There is a museum Gulag in Perm. The last one remaining. Eli from Russia and Mr Bald went there on video blogs.
This channel is good. It is very balanced. Not USSR fan boy. I just saw one where Khrushchev came to US. The US has declined since then. I saw one on anti western propaganda. Much about US was not true then but it true now. E.g. A small number of financial interests on Wall St and banks control the economy and shaft US workers.
https://www.youtube.com/@TheColdWarTV (https://www.youtube.com/@TheColdWarTV)
This channel is more humorous. A dry sardonic wit.
https://www.youtube.com/@Setarko (https://www.youtube.com/@Setarko)
https://youtu.be/NC8mME1-GR4 (https://youtu.be/NC8mME1-GR4)
You always liked gray colors? You love panels? Khrushchyovka is your favourite building of all time? Fear not, I present to you the ADVANCED version of Khrushchyovka, still gray and ugly, but now it can be up to 25 stories and up to a kilometer long. When Leonid Brezhnev came to power, he decided to build on the work of his predecessor and continue to erect identical panel houses on the whole territory of the Soviet Union. Nowadays a panel Brezhnevka is the most common type of building you can find in Russia. Let's talk about them and about how they were about to build a whole culture of doomers around themselves.
-
He is not a gulag fanboy. Devils advocate. Compares to tsarist labor camps. Title is a little clickbaity.
https://youtu.be/-eWeAleoXWY
Why GULAG Camps Were ESSENTIAL For the Soviet Union
Setarko
https://youtu.be/i8uw04k_qqw
GULAG 2.0? | Russia Wants To Resurrect Forced Labor Camps?
You probably heard about GULAG camps in Soviet Union. Those absolutely horrible places that the evil old man Stalin had invented. It's a good thing they're a thing of the distant past, huh? Well, apparently some Russian government official think that it would be a good idea to revive good old forced labour camps. Let's talk about this and discuss if the idea of forced labour of prisoners will work in the 21st century.
-
Not surprised...
I reckon undesirables are still tortured and shot in the Lubyanka and bodies incinerated...
Out of sight out of mind...
-
His sarcasm is priceless.
SPOILER ALERT FOR AMERICANS TV SERIES.
Lubyanka?
I remember the TV series The Americans. Poor Nina.
Martha got off a little better. She had wanted to adopt a kid but her fake husband, already married commie spy, wanted none of that. At the end it showed her alone in Moscow looking at some orphan playing. They just planted that thought and took it no further.
-
I watched this while half asleep. From memory.
USSR wiped out religion? NO but they tried. Khrushchev tried more than Stalin.
There was no corruption in USSR? There was plenty and he gave examples.
Workers paradise? No. Industrialization phase was brutal. Workers had little say. Things did improve in 60s?
There were no elections? There were but not voting for approved candidate was very visible..
People hated the USSR and only brute force stopped rebellions? Lack of data. Later polling says most did not hate the govt. Ambivalent. They went along.
He always asks you to hit like and subscribe using methods relevant to the video. I linked to that part. Humorous.
https://youtu.be/eMBh5zbN3K4?t=952
update
The comments are good.
-
What about the 18 million housed in gulags and the 1.7 million who perished as a result? Political dissidents and non-conformists of the communist utopia should have more weight given to their voices...
He has other docs on those. He couldn't mention gulags in docs about various housing models. He has a separate doc on each of 4 different mass housing models.
-
Interesting history of USSR housing without a focus on each type. More history.
A rocky start. I forgot about the start, before WWII. Based on Utopia by Thomas Moore???
At first everyone was to do everything together. Families were obsolete? I recall there free love?
Later factories were built first and workers moved near them. In tents, maybe barracks. Then mass built housing after WWII. Designed with people in mind. Amenities were mostly the same all over. Shops. schools. Medical. Movie theaters.
https://youtu.be/X1vKKnd3vr8
Living in an Ideal Soviet City
Setarko
59.9K subscribers
57,532 views Feb 23, 2023
The Soviet Union was the first state in the world in which power belonged to the workers. At least formally. And it is logical that the Soviet Union cared more than anyone else in the world about the comfort of its ordinary citizens. That included building the most comfortable cities for them to live in. Back in the 1930s, the Soviet government decided it wanted to build perfect modern industrial city. Magnitogorsk was supposed to be a first socialist utopia that could revolutionize the approach to urban planning. Sadly, it didn't turn out that well. But after the 1950s, the Soviet Union has realized all its mistakes and actually proceeded to build the most livable cities possible. In 70 years, over 170 cities and towns were built from scratch in the USSR. And today I will tell you why they really were almost perfect.
-
Aesthetics never really occurred in most all of Russia... ::hysterical::
The Euro-influenced Imperial decadence of St. Petersburg being a notable exception...though the Bolsheviks did try to blunt it as best they could and rename it during their reign of terror...
-
When I watch docs on the bad things in USSR I already knew them. It is the good parts that are new to me. Building that amount of housing in a short time was an accomplishment.
There was an element of utopianism in USSR. They were screwed up but not in every way. It was good to be a kid in the USSR. I watched a doc on Tajikistan. The Russians came in and the standard of living got better pretty quick. I mean if you value electricity, indoor plumbing, and literacy. Kinda like the Romans in Britain. Russians left when USSR fell and all hell broke lose.
I watched a doc on 3 revolts in 3 gulags around 1953. Stalin died, giving hope that things would improve in the Gulags. No change., Then Beria was arrested. No change for political prisoners. Hope was gone so protest etc. Did not end well. A few years later Gulags were all closed.
Political prisoners released. That is where the NAZIs in Ukr came from, released from Gulags. Many returned to Ukr and entered politics. Or moved to Canada and entered politics. Remember that Canadian covid lockdown NAZI woman politician? Blame the Russians for not shooting her NAZI grandfather. Not sure of her lineage exactly. He wrote anti Jewish pieces for the newspaper.
I saw one about pioneer summer camps. The best was camp Arktek in Crimea. You had to be a superstar student or a have a plugged in parent in the party to be sent there.
Where had I heard of camp Arktek? Oh yeah. Kiev was claiming that Ukr kids were being kidnapped and sent to concentration camps. That was one of them.
-
I can't sleep.
from reddit.
Question for tankies: are you open with people around you about being a tankie and how do you respond to the usual arguments
It means someone that sympathises with past communist regimes that are often heavily criticised
The term originated in Britain as an insult for communist who defended the sovjet union sending tanks against the revolt in Hungry. But by now it's been basically used for every communist who doesn't wholeheartedly denounce actually existing socialist states.
...
I had heard the term but never heard a definition or history. I thought I would share.
I heard Max Blumenthal joke that he was called a tankie.
I recently heard some older people from USSR describe their lives under USSR. It seems some things were better. I thought everything was worse.
-
Is there a term for Nazi sympathizers too or will tankies suffice for these socialists as well?
-
I think tankie just refers to people who defend former USSR. When Max joked about it I looked it up but the definition confused me. It may have given a different meaning. Now it makes sense.
Also, Judge Nap has Alastair Crooke on, former UK ambassador I think. He noted some strange morphing of history. E.g. see Blinken recently. WWII was really Europeans vs Russia. It is very subtle. "We have always been at war with Eastasia."
-
Some people miss the benefits of Nazism too ::) so to me tankies/nazis...same diff...
"We" meaning US or "we" meaning Euro's?
-
Some people miss the benefits of Nazism too ::) so to me tankies/nazis...same diff...
"We" meaning US or "we" meaning Euro's?
I read an interesting book about the 1930-1940s Germany and Hitler. Hitlerland. Western diplomats and journalists wrote their impressions of Germany and Hitler at the time. They were impressed but a little creeped out. Very efficient and clean but ....
The women thought Hitler was effeminate and a "neuter."
US military attache wanted to get a look at modern German war planes but no way. Until Lindberg visited and the Germans fell all over themselves showing him around. The attache tagged along.
-
...
"We" meaning US or "we" meaning Euro's?
I was just pulling 1984. As WWII history is being morphed. I recall Blinken recently kinda blamed the NAZI/Banderite Kiev massacres on the Russians. BTW I am aware of the Katyn(?) Poland massacre by the USSR blamed on the Germans.
-
Some people miss the benefits of Nazism too ::) so to me tankies/nazis...same diff...
"We" meaning US or "we" meaning Euro's?
I read an interesting book about the 1930-1940s Germany and Hitler. Hitlerland. Western diplomats and journalists wrote their impressions of Germany and Hitler at the time. They were impressed but a little creeped out. Very efficient and clean but ....
The women thought Hitler was effeminate and a "neuter."
US military attache wanted to get a look at modern German war planes but no way. Until Lindberg visited and the Germans fell all over themselves showing him around. The attache tagged along.
Lots of prominent American businessmen (in varying degrees of interest) were nominally supportive of working with the early pre-war/holocaust Nazi regime...many from a pragmatic check to communism and/or a smart business decision...given most prominent industrialists had investments and/or operations in Germany at the time.
-
...
"We" meaning US or "we" meaning Euro's?
I was just pulling 1984. As WWII history is being morphed. I recall Blinken recently kinda blamed the NAZI/Banderite Kiev massacres on the Russians. BTW I am aware of the Katyn(?) Poland massacre by the USSR blamed on the Germans.
Yeah, this script stinks from every angle.
-
...
"We" meaning US or "we" meaning Euro's?
I was just pulling 1984. As WWII history is being morphed. I recall Blinken recently kinda blamed the NAZI/Banderite Kiev massacres on the Russians. BTW I am aware of the Katyn(?) Poland massacre by the USSR blamed on the Germans.
Yeah, this script stinks from every angle.
I recall Ford was invested in germanay big time and might have stayed invested wuring WWII.
Here is a meme on the current history rewrite/morph.
A meme on
https://t.me/inessas1992/4806
🤦?? Zelensky's grandfather, Simeon Zelensky, was Lieutenant of the Red Army in 1944, and had two orders of the Red Star for repelling Nazi forces from the Dnepropetrovsk region, Ukraine.
💲How MUCH did they pay Zelensky to throw it all away like that (https://t.me/inessas1992/4805?single)?
-
What about the 18 million housed in gulags and the 1.7 million who perished as a result? Political dissidents and non-conformists of the communist utopia should have more weight given to their voices...
He has other docs on those. He couldn't mention gulags in docs about various housing models. He has a separate doc on each of 4 different mass housing models.
Not sure of the number in gulags. I may read up on those later. I came cross a statement in the book by Andrei the grumpy Russian.. Then I asked around. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn was a fraud who exaggerated the number in the gulags by one or two orders of magnitude. Russians did not like him for various reasons and few went to his funeral. His wife said he just made things up.
After USSR fell he had the opportunity to examine records. He refused, saying the gulag books were fiction.
The Gulag Archipelago: An Experiment in Literary Investigation
There are historians who did investigate the gulags after 1991. They mock him.
He was a useful idiot (Lenin phrase?) for the west.
-
What about the 18 million housed in gulags and the 1.7 million who perished as a result? Political dissidents and non-conformists of the communist utopia should have more weight given to their voices...
He has other docs on those. He couldn't mention gulags in docs about various housing models. He has a separate doc on each of 4 different mass housing models.
Not sure of the number in gulags. I may read up on those later. I came cross a statement in the book by Andrei the grumpy Russian.. Then I asked around. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn was a fraud who exaggerated the number in the gulags by one or two orders of magnitude. Russians did not like him for various reasons and few went to his funeral. His wife said he just made things up.
After USSR fell he had the opportunity to examine records. He refused, saying the gulag books were fiction.
The Gulag Archipelago: An Experiment in Literary Investigation
There are historians who did investigate the gulags after 1991. They mock him.
He was a useful idiot (Lenin phrase?) for the west.
So then, what's the over/under for good gulags vs bad gulags?
-
What about the 18 million housed in gulags and the 1.7 million who perished as a result? Political dissidents and non-conformists of the communist utopia should have more weight given to their voices...
He has other docs on those. He couldn't mention gulags in docs about various housing models. He has a separate doc on each of 4 different mass housing models.
Not sure of the number in gulags. I may read up on those later. I came cross a statement in the book by Andrei the grumpy Russian.. Then I asked around. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn was a fraud who exaggerated the number in the gulags by one or two orders of magnitude. Russians did not like him for various reasons and few went to his funeral. His wife said he just made things up.
After USSR fell he had the opportunity to examine records. He refused, saying the gulag books were fiction.
The Gulag Archipelago: An Experiment in Literary Investigation
There are historians who did investigate the gulags after 1991. They mock him.
He was a useful idiot (Lenin phrase?) for the west.
So then, what's the over/under for good gulags vs bad gulags?
I did not know there were good gulags.
I will likely try to read up on the gulags.
I have a book, still unread, ,on how the average person viewed the gulags and the terror.
Maybe much of what I learned about the USSR was propaganda from US.
I read some books by K Ghodsee who interviewed lots of people from former USSR, mostly while she lived in Bulgaria.
I will post a summary of some next. Interesting reading I always thought that anthropologists were the most honest of social scientists, at least in the old days.
-
I read some Some Kristen Ghodsee books. In short, life for everyone did not get better after USSR fell and many got worse. Some did not recover to USSR levels for 30 years if then. Having crooks steal your money is not good.
Lost in Transition is my favorite so far. The most human. Good stories. The so called "conspircy theories" of her male friend rang true to me. The CIA bought votes and paid for protests? Geez. Vicotoria Nuland said US pumped $5B into Ukraine then came regime change and the coup. US NED pumps lots of money into 'pro democracy' protests world wide.
Why Women Have Better Sex Under Socialism is good and the most feminist. In short, without govt help, women are at a disadvantage compared to men under capitalism. Women sexually are less likely to be bought and sold for sex if the govt aids them with daycare etc.
Taking Stock of Shock. Very data driven. Lots of tables, charts, plots, maps in the first half. In short, different countries and regions varied in recovery after USSR fell. Visagrad did better than most. Central Asia did worse economically but death rates did not soar like many places. maybe Islam helped.
I am not done with this reading yet. Bald and Bankrupt and TheRevolutionReport are video bloggers who interviewed people in former USSR who shocked me by saying things were worse off for them.
-
I just finished The Red Riviera (Kristen Ghodsee). I liked it. A very human book, not too many tables. She lived in Bulgaria for a while, had a Bulgarian husband, child, and studied the tourism and hospitality sector which employed mostly women. She had been living in Maine and teaching at university. She compared USSR era with post USSR era. She has a creative writing style where she fills in lots details.
Under communism, women were trained to work in tourism. It brought in money from other communist countries. Soviet block could make it hard to travel outside the block and Bulgaria was on the Black Sea and later had ski resorts. USSR feared defections and cultural contamination.
Mostly women employees who needed a university degree in correct area, good Bulgarian, and fluent in two other languages. They did well. When the USSR fell they often did well then also as they spoke western languages and worked in places bringing in hard currencies. Their husbands were often unemployed after USSR. The hotels might be sold off to connected party members and the mafia obtained some. The women used their connections to their advantage after the USSR fell (The Changes).
The last chapter was named "Feminism by Design" and my favorite. In short, western NGOs descended on the place and focused on how the women had been exploited. The NGOs would only get grants with such focus. Except the Bulgarian tourist employee women thought the western feminists were out of touch man haters. They had it good compared to most. Someone, maybe the author. said that the western NGOs wanted to pit the women against men rather than have both join in class struggle against the west.
Kristen took out a cigarette and her friend offered her a light, then the lighter. She said she had several she had 'privatized' from western tourists. Kristen asked what the difference was between privatizing and stealing. "There isn't one" was the reply.
So, she took her husband and 3 year old daughter to visit Bulgaria. She got travel documents for her two basset hounds and included one in her book. Looks like a passport.
So, she says in US bassets are adored maybe due to the hush puppie shoe ads. In Bulgaria they have never been seen and people view them as the mutant spawn of Satan. Children scream and grandmothers curse when she walked the dogs. Seriously. That was in her book Lost in Transition. A very personal book about her and other people.
It was suggested she walk them in a soccer stadium outside of town. First 3 times went well. Fourth time she let them loose only to find sheep grazing. The bassets went nuts chasing the sheep. The shepherds went nuts at the devil dogs. One connected with a thrown rock but she was able to stop the shepherd with the axe.
She finally stopped the shepherds by explaining that they were American dogs who had never seen sheep. The shepherds had never met an American much less a mutant American dog. Plus, what kind of dog has not seen a sheep? It took a half hour to explain it all.
update
Bulgaria was closely allied and one of the most loyal satellite states of the Soviet Union during the Cold War, sometimes being called the 16th Soviet Republic rather than an independent country. Bulgaria was also part of Comecon as well as a member of the Warsaw Pact.
Bulgaria remained part of the Eastern Bloc until 1989, when the BCP began to drift away from the USSR. The first multi-party elections were held in 1990 and the BCP lost power in elections the following year.
0 comments
-
Read Red Hangover by Kristin Ghodsee
Others
Trigger warning at the end.
Read Red Hangover by Kristin Ghodsee (2017). Mostly her interviews with Bulgarians about the"transition" after USSR collapse.
She shared her love of typewriters and the history of their making in USSR.
She gives the history of how the subject/book of how sex was better under socialism was written. There was some poll in East Germany. Then a cheesy documentary. Then I recall she wrote an op ed then later the book with that name. Also, she wrote some history. There was no sex education in west Germany but there was more in East Germany. Perhaps due to the church in west Germany.
Later things changed and there was more commercialized sex in the west.
Cheesy doc at link.
https://youtu.be/ZW3aOdUl3e8
She tells about interviewing some woman whose family had to borrow money after the USSR fell, for medicine as I recall. No more free health care. They had to borrow from gangsters. They broke her father's ribs and arm. She had to work it off.
The woman was dark skinned and could pass for Roma. The govt had outlawed foreign adoptions of orphans after the USSR fell. So it went underground. She had to pass as some relative and get kids out of orphanages. Many were Roma. She had to lie and often bribe using forged documents. . I recall she needed to get 5 kids out to pay off the debt.
She ran into a refusal once from a difficult director. She knew there would be a problem after she saw communist symbols on her office wall. The gangsters apologized as they should have known. I keep forgetting that part of communism was a utopian morality. I was raised to think it was all gulags.
Then the phone of her contact went dead and she was not called any more. She picked up a newspaper and learned why. A child organ harvesting ring had been busted.
-
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/Soviet_Union_GDP_per_capita.gif/800px-Soviet_Union_GDP_per_capita.gif)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Soviet_Union_GDP_per_capita.gif
also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
-
Not sure if accurate. Why many Russians like Stalin. Says 644 thousand people executed.
https://t.me/putingers_cat/8717
Foreigners often ask Russians why they like Stalin. ...Wasn’t he a bloody tyrant? After all, that’s what they’ve been told their whole lives…
This video provides a brief summary of why Russians like Stalin.
-
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/Soviet_Union_GDP_per_capita.gif/800px-Soviet_Union_GDP_per_capita.gif)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Soviet_Union_GDP_per_capita.gif
also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
Yeah, not buying that Soviet line...they collapsed economically...no way their real GDP was rising into collapse...flatten that red line to the 9 mark and marrying to the blue...
Wiki! Pah! Remember when you could edit their stuff and save it...then they started policing the edits and now there is only their peeps controlling it now...
::mooning::
-
Not sure if accurate. Why many Russians like Stalin. Says 644 thousand people executed.
https://t.me/putingers_cat/8717
Foreigners often ask Russians why they like Stalin. ...Wasn’t he a bloody tyrant? After all, that’s what they’ve been told their whole lives…
This video provides a brief summary of why Russians like Stalin.
Yeah, only 644k, right....
/
No different than saying you like Satan...
Yeah, swell...enjoy that...
-
I am trying to learn more about the USSR and the collapse. What if we have only been taught the bad stuff? What started this was Bald and Bankrupt and others interviewing old people on the street in former USSR. I bought a book Russophobia.From the cover it seems to have started with the split in Christendom. It sure did not start in 2022. I always thought that the palace guards in the wizard of oz looked Russian.
There was a joke where no matter what was criticized in USSR by Americans their reply was "But you lynch Negroes." I knew an exchange student from Siberia. Her image of blacks was protesters being attacked by police dogs for trying to vote. When she left it was obese violent girls who took their kids to HS free day care.
I watched a doc where they gave subjects to avoid in Russia. One was Stalin.
-
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/Soviet_Union_GDP_per_capita.gif/800px-Soviet_Union_GDP_per_capita.gif)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Soviet_Union_GDP_per_capita.gif (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Soviet_Union_GDP_per_capita.gif)
also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita)
Yeah, not buying that Soviet line...they collapsed economically...no way their real GDP was rising into collapse...flatten that red line to the 9 mark and marrying to the blue...
Wiki! Pah! Remember when you could edit their stuff and save it...then they started policing the edits and now there is only their peeps controlling it now...
::mooning::
I think it was rising until the collapse which was worse than the US great depression. I read a book Taking Stock of Shock with several chapters full of data. I have another book that is mostly a hit job on Jeffery Sachs who was involved in the so called shock therapy. He was involved in that mess then quit and apparently tried to walk back some of what he did or said.
I am thinking that Americans image of USSR is mostly 1930s and gulags. I saw a doc where some USSR head walked into a TX grocery store and was shocked. It was not a planned visit. WWII took decades to recover from for Russia. Thank God for video bloggers. They can walk around, talk to people, and take videos.
There is a good YT channel The Ushanka Show from a guy who grew up in Ukraine SSR and now lives in US MI. He goes into the minutia of life in USSR. His dad was a spray painter at the Antonov aircraft plant. He got lucky and taught photography at a summer camp in US MI and later moved here. I like his details on the petty fraud and theft.
Here is why I like video bloggers. Just one reason. Not what I expected. There are lots of videos of the villages also. This is in Moscow.
Where are the KGB agents in trench coats?
https://youtu.be/SAWUf7CPCK4?t=2185 (https://youtu.be/SAWUf7CPCK4?t=2185)
There are arguments both ways on whether the rest of Russia subsidizes Moscow or the other way around.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/872xga/when_boris_yeltsin_visited_texas_in_1990_he_went/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/872xga/when_boris_yeltsin_visited_texas_in_1990_he_went/)
When Boris Yeltsin visited Texas in 1990, he went to a grocery store and was shocked by the abundance of food. This shattered his view of Communism and led to him reforming Russia. With all the Russian spies, how did the government officials not know about the condition of America before this?
https://englishrussia.com/2015/01/20/borist-yeltsin-in-american-supermarket/ (https://englishrussia.com/2015/01/20/borist-yeltsin-in-american-supermarket/)
-
Also I am not sure how or why the USSR collapsed. David stockman said the reason that they could not keep up with US military spending was BS. I heard there was a USSR wide referendum and most wanted to keep it together but the leaders ignored them and dissolved the USSR. Many think the leaders sold them out. Lots of looting went on by insiders and outsiders.
The joke is that everything they were told about communism was a lie but everything they were told about capitalism was true.
I think the baltics got a head start on leaving.
-
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/Soviet_Union_GDP_per_capita.gif/800px-Soviet_Union_GDP_per_capita.gif)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Soviet_Union_GDP_per_capita.gif (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Soviet_Union_GDP_per_capita.gif)
also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita)
Yeah, not buying that Soviet line...they collapsed economically...no way their real GDP was rising into collapse...flatten that red line to the 9 mark and marrying to the blue...
Wiki! Pah! Remember when you could edit their stuff and save it...then they started policing the edits and now there is only their peeps controlling it now...
::mooning::
I think it was rising until the collapse which was worse than the US great depression. I read a book Taking Stock of Shock with several chapters full of data. I have another book that is mostly a hit job on Jeffery Sachs who was involved in the so called shock therapy. He was involved in that mess then quit and apparently tried to walk back some of what he did or said.
I am thinking that Americans image of USSR is mostly 1930s and gulags. I saw a doc where some USSR head walked into a TX grocery store and was shocked. It was not a planned visit. WWII took decades to recover from for Russia. Thank God for video bloggers. They can walk around, talk to people, and take videos.
There is a good YT channel The Ushanka Show from a guy who grew up in Ukraine SSR and now lives in US MI. He goes into the minutia of life in USSR. His dad was a spray painter at the Antonov aircraft plant. He got lucky and taught photography at a summer camp in US MI and later moved here. I like his details on the petty fraud and theft.
Here is why I like video bloggers. Just one reason. Not what I expected. There are lots of videos of the villages also. This is in Moscow.
Where are the KGB agents in trench coats?
https://youtu.be/SAWUf7CPCK4?t=2185 (https://youtu.be/SAWUf7CPCK4?t=2185)
There are arguments both ways on whether the rest of Russia subsidizes Moscow or the other way around.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/872xga/when_boris_yeltsin_visited_texas_in_1990_he_went/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/872xga/when_boris_yeltsin_visited_texas_in_1990_he_went/)
When Boris Yeltsin visited Texas in 1990, he went to a grocery store and was shocked by the abundance of food. This shattered his view of Communism and led to him reforming Russia. With all the Russian spies, how did the government officials not know about the condition of America before this?
https://englishrussia.com/2015/01/20/borist-yeltsin-in-american-supermarket/ (https://englishrussia.com/2015/01/20/borist-yeltsin-in-american-supermarket/)
Well, I recall near the end there was rampant (I mean rampant!) alcoholism and absenteeism...[side bar - at this time I told a former pal of mine who saw himself as an intellectual liberal that if that sh*t ever came here I would not be working either! I'd be a proud state-declared hooligan]...people were just sitting drunk on their ass waiting for their govt check and their vodka, bread & cheese...store shelves were bare and lines were long whenever anything came in...societal morale was a uniform glum...and the smart ones like Putin seeing what what is to come planned accordingly and benefitted...
It was beyond predictable that an oligarchy of militarists, grifters and black market capitalists and sundry opportunists would fill the vacuum.
-
Also I am not sure how or why the USSR collapsed. David stockman said the reason that they could not keep up with US military spending was BS. I heard there was a USSR wide referendum and most wanted to keep it together but the leaders ignored them and dissolved the USSR. Many think the leaders sold them out. Lots of looting went on by insiders and outsiders.
The joke is that everything they were told about communism was a lie but everything they were told about capitalism was true.
I think the baltics got a head start on leaving.
It was a broad-based uniform economic collapse...the military budget was just part of it...and I studied Gorbachev in college, he too saw what was coming but thought he could tweak communism into a hybrid socialist-led market oriented creature, his Perestroika et al...little freedoms here, some limited capitalism there...but all it did was fuel the black market freedom into helping create the coming oligarchy of opportunists from shady to outright sketchy as Hell...
The Baltics, Poland (Gdansk, remember that?)...the WWII satellites always had more interests in breaking Soviet chains.
-
Interesting. 16 mn long. How soviet sailors (commercial) made lots of money. In short, get paid in special rubles usable on western goods stores. High exchange rate. Take a limited number of soviet goods to western ports then trade them for western goods then return them to USSR.
I recall some diplomat saying they had long shopping lists from higher ups when they visited USA. Some USSR spy for US had US govt do his shopping while he talked to US govt giving them USSR secrets.
https://youtu.be/Vijhr5Cf5AE
A Soviet Sailor. One of the Most Lucrative Jobs in the USSR - Plowing the Seas as a Seaman
USHANKA SHOW
99.7K subscribers
13,600 views Feb 4, 2024
Best-paid jobs in the Soviet Union. Good things about the Soviet Union. Working as a Soviet Seaman. Soviet sailors.
0:00 Intro
0:21 Working as a sailor was one of the most profitable professions in the Soviet Union, with high earning potential.
3:12 The high income of Soviet sailors compared to professionals in America due to affordable housing and trade school education.
7:04 Soviet sailors received equal base salaries but earned extra foreign currency for international routes.
10:34 Soviet sailors found lucrative opportunities by bringing and selling goods in foreign countries, preferring slow ships for extended trips to maximize profits.
13:48 Lucrative opportunities for sailors in the USSR included smuggling goods, such as vodka and electronics, to make significant profits.
-
I used to send all sorts of stuff to a family in Ukraine a long time ago before I lost touch with them...late 80's...loved it, stuff they could not get anywhere there...
-
https://www.amazon.com/Life-Terror-Stalins-Russia-1934-1941/dp/0300074425 (https://www.amazon.com/Life-Terror-Stalins-Russia-1934-1941/dp/0300074425)
Life and Terror in Stalin's Russia, 1934-1941 Paperback – November 10, 1998
by Robert W. Thurston
I am slogging my way through this book. I would not recommend unless there is real interest in this book written after records became available.
If I could summarize so far ....
Everything bad that I thought happened did happen but the numbers were lower.
This era, maybe 1931 then peaking in 1937 or 38, was not a systematic attempt to control people by keeping them in terror. In the current chapter it seems like the Salem witch trials. People went crazy.
People were mostly not in terror, and fewer were than should have been.
If a person was in prison they believed the system had made a mistake in their case but everyone else there was guilty.
The words "erratic" and "inconsistent" come up often.
There were good parts inconsistent with systematic terror. Appeals worked. People were freed early.
There were plots uncovered, real and imagined.
People higher up and party members were at higher risk. People turned down promotions near the end to reduce risk. Also self demoted.
People who made mistakes were accused of sabotage and called "wreckers." Some times found innocent.
USSR had a fetish for "workers" so their managers were at greater risk.
Workers felt free to complain about managers and even the party. There were lots of rules and laws and managers and workers ignored them or conspired to work around them to meet goals.
There was 1 NKVD officer per every 500 to 1000 population and they did other jobs like surveying and maybe RR.
The book gives too many examples and often for famous people in the country. On one hand (insert bad thing that shows systematic terror) on the other hand (insert good thing example inconsistent with that).
Joke:
Late at night came a knock at the door.
"Who is there?"
"NKVD, open up!"
"You have the wrong apartment. The party members live upstairs."
from the link at amazon
Terror, in the sense of mass, unjust arrests, characterized the USSR during the late 1930s. But, argues Robert Thurston in this controversial book, Stalin did not intend to terrorize the country and did not need to rule by fear. Memoirs and interviews with Soviet people indicate that many more believed in Stalin's quest to eliminate internal enemies than were frightened by it.
Drawing on recently opened Soviet archives and other sources, Thurston shows that between 1934 and 1936 police and court practice relaxed significantly. Then a series of events, together with the tense international situation and memories of real enemy activity during the savage Russian Civil War, combined to push leaders and people into a hysterical hunt for perceived "wreckers." After late 1938, however, the police and courts became dramatically milder.
...
-
Ahh, the good 'ol days...
/
-
In watching mostly amateur videos from former USSR I realized that most of my impressions of USSR are from the civil war then 1930s and Gulags. What if foreigners impressions if US ended with the great depression? Germany only from 1930s to 1940s?
YT The Ushanka Show is by a guy who was born in 1971 in Ukraine and grew up in Kiev, moved to US MI later on. He describes every day stuff. Not a USSR fan boy.
-
Well, they all have socialist exploitation in common,,,
-
Old soviet joke
Q. What is the difference between capitalism and communism?
A. Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it is the other way around.
Also from the book. Many people at the bottom viewed the terror as party members at the top slitting each other's throats which was fine with them.
-
I finished this book. The Amazon blurb is pretty accurate.
https://www.amazon.com/Life-Terror-Stalins-Russia-1934-1941/dp/0300064012/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 (https://www.amazon.com/Life-Terror-Stalins-Russia-1934-1941/dp/0300064012/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8)
-
A little too soft and apologetic IMO...Zampolit are real, people disappeared, people were tortured, people were shot, people went to gulag...nowhere a discussion on the undeniable Russian psyche predisposed to obedience to strong rulers and how it was expertly exploited by leading communists...and nowhere a moral judgement on what number is deemed "acceptable" to commit crimes against?
-
A little too soft and apologetic IMO...Zampolit are real, people disappeared, people were tortured, people were shot, people went to gulag...nowhere a discussion on the undeniable Russian psyche predisposed to obedience to strong rulers and how it was expertly exploited by leading communists...and nowhere a moral judgement on what number is deemed "acceptable" to commit crimes against?
All the bad stuff did happen and the book did not deny this but quantified it based on records opened up after 1991.
The book addressed a few questions.
1. Was the terror intentional with the purpose being to control people through terror?
2. Did people live in terror? Was everyone in terror or mostly certain groups?
#1. It was too erratic and too many counter examples to be intentional in that way.Stalin was acting to uncover plots, real and imagined.
#2. The higher ups and party members were at much greater risk. Workers were at much less risk. Workers viewed this as palace intrigue with the top commies cutting each other's throats which suited them just fine.
Elsewhere I learned that Solzhenitsyn was kinda a fraud. His wife said he just made things up. After records opened he was asked if he wanted to revise his books. He said no bc they were fiction and pointed to the subtitle.
Here is a review.
Everything bad that I thought happened did happen (show trials, gulags, executions) but the numbers were lower. Also, there were lots of counter examples of good things.
This era, maybe 1931 then peaking in 1937 or 38, was not a systematic attempt to control people by keeping them in terror. In a later chapter it seemed more like the Salem witch trials. People went crazy.
People were mostly not in terror, and fewer were than should have been.
If a person was in prison they believed the system had made a mistake in their case but everyone else there was guilty. So they did not live in fear because the imprisoned, other than themself, were guilty they thought. Workers believed higher party members were cutting each others throats in palace intrigue which was fine with them.
The words "erratic" and "inconsistent" come up often.
There were good parts inconsistent with systematic terror. Appeals sometimes worked and the accusers were convicted. People were freed early.
There were plots uncovered, real and imagined.
People higher up and party members were at higher risk. People turned down promotions near the end to reduce risk. Also self demoted.
Workers often had more input than in the US and were mostly not afraid to complain to management and even writing complaints to the party which were acted on. There were limits e.g. you could not complain about socialism or Stalin.
People who caused production harm (made mistakes? or sabotage?) were accused of sabotage and called "wreckers." Some times found innocent.
USSR had a fetish for "workers" so their managers were at greater risk. Managers could be convicted of wrecking for failing to listen to or implement workers' suggestions to increase production.
Workers felt free to complain about managers and even the party. There were lots of rules and laws and managers and workers ignored them or conspired together to work around them to meet goals.
There was 1 NKVD officer per every 500 to 1000 population and they did other jobs like surveying and maybe RR.
The book gives too many examples and often for famous people in the country. On one hand (insert bad thing that shows systematic terror) on the other hand (insert good thing example inconsistent with that).
Joke:
Late at night came a knock at the door.
"Who is there?"
"NKVD, open up!"
"You have the wrong apartment. The communist party members live upstairs."
-
If workers failed to meet their quota or had a higher defect rate they might be paid less. If it was believed intentional then they might be found guilty of being a "wrecker."
There was the so called stakhanovite movement. Named after a coal miner who set a new record in coal mined in one shift. Some workers were into this. Some were not because it might raise the quota. The party did not like it at first because it was not their idea. Same for some managers. BTW I have seen this in US plants where one shift tries to out do another shift.
So some managers fought this. They would not listen to suggestions from workers to decrease defect rates or increase production. Then the workers would be punished for bad work and even be accused of wrecking. The workers might write letters to party officials complaining of this. The party might investigate and find this true and punish the manager and even convict him of being a wrecker. Seeing this, many avoided being promoted to manager.
-
(https://nickfalkner.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/73015prew_sotsplak07005.jpg)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Stakhanov (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Stakhanov)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Time_-_Stakhanov.jpg/250px-Time_-_Stakhanov.jpg)
Interesting story about the guy.
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35161610 (https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35161610)
-
A little too soft and apologetic IMO...Zampolit are real, people disappeared, people were tortured, people were shot, people went to gulag...nowhere a discussion on the undeniable Russian psyche predisposed to obedience to strong rulers and how it was expertly exploited by leading communists...and nowhere a moral judgement on what number is deemed "acceptable" to commit crimes against?
All the bad stuff did happen and the book did not deny this but quantified it based on records opened up after 1991.
The book addressed a few questions.
1. Was the terror intentional with the purpose being to control people through terror?
2. Did people live in terror? Was everyone in terror or mostly certain groups?
#1. It was too erratic and too many counter examples to be intentional in that way.Stalin was acting to uncover plots, real and imagined.
#2. The higher ups and party members were at much greater risk. Workers were at much less risk. Workers viewed this as palace intrigue with the top commies cutting each other's throats which suited them just fine.
Elsewhere I learned that Solzhenitsyn was kinda a fraud. His wife said he just made things up. After records opened he was asked if he wanted to revise his books. He said no bc they were fiction and pointed to the subtitle.
Here is a review.
Everything bad that I thought happened did happen (show trials, gulags, executions) but the numbers were lower. Also, there were lots of counter examples of good things.
This era, maybe 1931 then peaking in 1937 or 38, was not a systematic attempt to control people by keeping them in terror. In a later chapter it seemed more like the Salem witch trials. People went crazy.
People were mostly not in terror, and fewer were than should have been.
If a person was in prison they believed the system had made a mistake in their case but everyone else there was guilty. So they did not live in fear because the imprisoned, other than themself, were guilty they thought. Workers believed higher party members were cutting each others throats in palace intrigue which was fine with them.
The words "erratic" and "inconsistent" come up often.
There were good parts inconsistent with systematic terror. Appeals sometimes worked and the accusers were convicted. People were freed early.
There were plots uncovered, real and imagined.
People higher up and party members were at higher risk. People turned down promotions near the end to reduce risk. Also self demoted.
Workers often had more input than in the US and were mostly not afraid to complain to management and even writing complaints to the party which were acted on. There were limits e.g. you could not complain about socialism or Stalin.
People who caused production harm (made mistakes? or sabotage?) were accused of sabotage and called "wreckers." Some times found innocent.
USSR had a fetish for "workers" so their managers were at greater risk. Managers could be convicted of wrecking for failing to listen to or implement workers' suggestions to increase production.
Workers felt free to complain about managers and even the party. There were lots of rules and laws and managers and workers ignored them or conspired together to work around them to meet goals.
There was 1 NKVD officer per every 500 to 1000 population and they did other jobs like surveying and maybe RR.
The book gives too many examples and often for famous people in the country. On one hand (insert bad thing that shows systematic terror) on the other hand (insert good thing example inconsistent with that).
Joke:
Late at night came a knock at the door.
"Who is there?"
"NKVD, open up!"
"You have the wrong apartment. The communist party members live upstairs."
The zampolit were everywhere...
-
I found this video on Stalin as to why many Russians like him. It leaves out the bad stuff.
https://t.me/putingers_cat/9209
From that book I just read the workers were mostly left alone and they had some sense of ownership compared to the peasants they were before 1917. Workers did not care if the higher party members cut each others throats.
-
Russians have a genetic fatalism...I think that is all that is...insert same parameters into a Western society and there would be more of chilling impact, and I am not saying there wasn't a chilling impact...it's just that Russians being fatalistic dampens reactions...
-
I heard that Russians are gloomy and pessimistic yet believe they will middle through some how.
-
I added another book to my list about the so called transition in USSR.
Secondhand Time
The Last of the Soviets
by Aleksievich, Svetlana
-
Finished a book I Realize Bulgaria was not in USSR.
Muslim lives in eastern Europe. by Kristin Ghodsee
This book is very detained and complicated. Centered on Madan in the Rhodope Mountains in Bulgaria where the author lived on and off. The Pomaks are an indigenous Bulgarian speaking Muslim people. It is said they are neither Slavs nor Turks but perhaps Arabs. There were religious conversions both voluntary and forced going way back. Most Muslims in the area are Slavs, Turks, or Roma. One woman Silvi followed has a father who is a Hodzha, Muslim preacher who sells Muskis, amulets.
The Muslims are said to be traditional, following a local form of Islam and follow local traditional dress. There has been an influx of external money from “orthodox” Islam e.g. Saudi money. This lead to building fancy orthodox Mosques with foreign trained Imams. This caused splits from local Christians and local traditional Muslims. The loud calls to prayer drove off some tourists.
Some women started dressing in the Arab style or European versions of the Arab style. This is a flowing style leaving only the hands and face exposed. The traditional Muslims often wore head scarves but often with mini skirts when younger.
Under socialism religion was repressed and there were forced name changes from Muslim names to more Slavic names. Silvi had had a Muslim name but it was changed to sound Slavic which was OK with her because she sold Avon and people would buy more from a Silvi than a Muslim name. Muslims were considered rural and tobacco growing.
The mines closed after socialism and things went to hell.
...