It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => TEOTWAWKI => Topic started by: Delnorin on October 16, 2011, 09:06:21 PM
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BMG's article about what weapon to have when the zombies take over.. and why (my silly summary) got me thinking. Now this might sound like a great college roleplaying launch to an amazing Rusians taking over the Country scenerio... but the Rusians (communists) now are in power here and gaining in strength.. so it's a little different.... but....
Humor me.. this could be fun for everyone. I hope that this little 'experiment' will get people to think a little 'what if' and pre-plan a few things.. pre-stock and package, have full/food/supplies ready to go in a shed/trailer, whatever... just move from what-if to perhaps... being that guy that's ready when it does happen.
Okay.. here's the task:
News on the teli and on radio and the internet is ramping up about violence, riots are happening in the big cities of every State. Curfews are in order in most cities. The local police forces can't contain the looters and thugs that have revolted because there is not more free money/food/drugs/medicine to give them and there is NO WAY in hell they're going to get a job to pay for their needs.
20-50 people each day are dying across the country due to "wrong place wrong time" innocent people that got in the way of the riots and were the wrong skin color or didn't look socialist enough.
BOOM !!!
A massive explosion goes off in the largest city near you.. so large that your windows shake and the birds for miles take to the skies in fright.
The News (whatever source you pick) is freaking out.. the anchor is nervous and in a panic as news crews rush back and forth and abandon their posts as they are on the cellphones calling family and leaving work right in the middle of their shift. The Satalite feed for the news starts to go as the communications grid starts to get overloaded.
The last thing you see on the Teli (news source) before it goes dead is the UN symbol.
Police sirens can be heard racing towards your house and then past your house.. the sound of a helicopter passes over your house and seems to be heading to the same place the police car just went.
You hear a single gunshot 300 yards from your house down the road and the distant sound of a woman's scream.
You have 30 minutes: What do you do?
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Nothing, until I know what's happening and where. We've made a choice to weather-in-place and there's going to have to be a concrete reason to go flying off.
Panic will get you killed.
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Nothing, until I know what's happening and where. We've made a choice to weather-in-place and there's going to have to be a concrete reason to go flying off.
Panic will get you killed.
Totally reasonable and well thought out.
I expect if there are 200 responses there will be 200 different reactions. The beauty of the individual.
This is not my full response... but for me.. we live in the desert. Staying in place when water/electricity goes down is death. HUGE problem here is that there are very few main roads and the desert is nearly impassable unless you have 3 foot tall tires on a 4x4 truck. Not to mention when you start getting up and out of the desert into the cooler mountains where there is water/trees/wildlife.. everything is bottlenecked with just a few roads... perfect for bandits to ambush you.
Ask me again why I moved to this hell hole? Oh yeah... to get a job. Heh
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Nothing, until I know what's happening and where. We've made a choice to weather-in-place and there's going to have to be a concrete reason to go flying off.
Panic will get you killed.
Totally reasonable and well thought out.
I expect if there are 200 responses there will be 200 different reactions. The beauty of the individual.
This is not my full response... but for me.. we live in the desert. Staying in place when water/electricity goes down is death. HUGE problem here is that there are very few main roads and the desert is nearly impassable unless you have 3 foot tall tires on a 4x4 truck. Not to mention when you start getting up and out of the desert into the cooler mountains where there is water/trees/wildlife.. everything is bottlenecked with just a few roads... perfect for bandits to ambush you.
Ask me again why I moved to this hell hole? Oh yeah... to get a job. Heh
We moved here to get away from the hellholes. We've water as long as we can make the well pump, power as long as the propane lasts and we'll manage afterward, game -- for now -- available land upon which to grow food, a giant fish reservoir five miles away, 30 miles from the nearest city, stocked food/ammo -- no reason to bug out unless the nuclear plant explodes. And at a ten-mile radius, unless we're away from home, we're done anyway.
If you're waiting to bug out in case of your scenario, you've waited too long, imo.
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If you're waiting to bug out in case of your scenario, you've waited too long, imo.
That was part of what I hoped would be brought up.
At what point do you bug out? Move? Prepare? How do you prepare? What level is smart and what is paranoia and wasting funds and resources that you could use to give your kid/wife a better life now, etc.?
I am certainly not where I feel comfortable and secure. But from near bancruptcy 3 years ago to at least seeing myself out of debt (minus the mortage) in 3-4 years... I'm getting traction.
I'm just not sure the world is going to wait for me to get all my ducks in a row before a giant hand from above reaches down and flushes the toilet and we start swirling around.
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If you're waiting to bug out in case of your scenario, you've waited too long, imo.
That was part of what I hoped would be brought up.
At what point do you bug out? Move? Prepare? How do you prepare? What level is smart and what is paranoia and wasting funds and resources that you could use to give your kid/wife a better life now, etc.?
I am certainly not where I feel comfortable and secure. But from near bancruptcy 3 years ago to at least seeing myself out of debt (minus the mortage) in 3-4 years... I'm getting traction.
I'm just not sure the world is going to wait for me to get all my ducks in a row before a giant hand from above reaches down and flushes the toilet and we start swirling around.
This is why you need other people in driving distance that you can get to where it is more secure if that's the case. If your position can't be defended you need to have an exit strategy that can be executed in short order.
If you're going north we can get you help if south we can get you help but being in contact is the center of that plan.
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This is why you need other people in driving distance that you can get to where it is more secure if that's the case. If your position can't be defended you need to have an exit strategy that can be executed in short order.
If you're going north we can get you help if south we can get you help but being in contact is the center of that plan.
Right on.
I've got 1 solid contact that has accepted me fully. He's already in a group of 2-3 families that have 4x4's, trailers, supplies, weapons/ammo, etc. I've sold myself well enough to my 'in' on how I can make windmills and/or solar panels to recharge radios/equipment and supply electricity for lights/cooking/refrigration, etc. As well as my plumbing, military/security training, drinking water treatment and other skills.
I need to touch base with him though for exact details. Once the cellphones go down/blocked it makes things hairy. He only lives 1/2 mile away but like I said before.. the roads here in Arizona are a joke outside of the city.. one road north and south.. and you have to drive it for 30 miles before you can get on the next road.. just open God-forsaken land that is impassible other than on foot. The hard part is getting to him when the roads are all blocked.
So yeah.. I've got more details to flush out. Not to mention a wife that will probably "ostrich up" on me. Translation: Oh, it's going to be okay, sure it's 115° outside and 110° in the house, we only have 45 gallons of drinking water in milk jugs in the closets, all the food in the fridge will be bad in a day.... but things will be okay. I think it'd be easier to survive the mob of zombies than to convince the wife that I'm taking the daughter and we're leaving.. she can stay and die if she wants. It's probably the only way to get her in the car. (sigh)
sorry.. just lots of frustration because of parallel experiences (parents/relatives that Ostrich up about politics until their Country is nearly gone).
I agree.... I need to take what contacts/plans I have now.. and polish them up and make sure it's more than just big-talk and there are real and tangeble plans that are workable.
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This particular senario hasn't been discussed, but we've had plenty of discussion of supplies needed to whether disaster. But if all this crap is going on, our place of refuge isn't far off and supplies would be delivered in advance.
Something else my little survival group have discussed. Only one road in and out where I live. To my right( 300 yards) is a small rock cliff, to my back ( 300 yards) is a ravine, to my front, of you come from there, you will be picked off easily and my left is somewhat vulnerable, but could be made where we could hear you coming....Plus, you gotta come thru a few houses and rough terrain. Most, imo, would attempt to use the road.....and it would be a mistake.
Depending on the situation and our accessment of the threat, we could defend my home and still have avenue to escape if needed. ( we know the area)
It's the nice thing living outside city limits, somewhat in the country. Most chaos will begin outside our area and we could prepare for the inevitable outward movement of violence.
Because of previous discussions, Most involved in the discussion know (somewhat) who is in my little group. We've actually added two families and number around 25, with 15-17 able to fight. Why we have discussed defending a high point, my house, unless we access the threat to be great, in which we will disappear into the woods. If an unorganized mob attempted to steal from is, I believe it would be a mistake. One of the families added (lol) is better armed than the local national guard.
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I ain't going anywhere (long story). This is where I make my stand.
Plans are made, contingencies thought through. Provisions laid in. My homestead is sustainable off the grid for as long as I'm apt to be around, less the zombie scenario. Add the zombies and, well,
I never planned on living forever anyway.
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Don't get me wrong.. I love my wife... but Jeesh. Being married to a city girl and one that insists on being with 5 miles of a Walmart sure puts limitations on sustainability and in-place survival.
Maybe some day we can get a little place up in the hills some place... maybe that way I could sell it to her.
To Her: Summer vacation home we can rent out.
To Me: Back up Plan the wife can be convinced to go to.
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Don't get me wrong.. I love my wife... but Jeesh. Being married to a city girl and one that insists on being with 5 miles of a Walmart sure puts limitations on sustainability and in-place survival.
Maybe some day we can get a little place up in the hills some place... maybe that way I could sell it to her.
To Her: Summer vacation home we can rent out.
To Me: Back up Plan the wife can be convinced to go to.
Sympathize with you, Del; the most valuable asset is a spouse fully on the same page.
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Sympathize with you, Del; the most valuable asset is a spouse fully on the same page.
Oh yeah, I hear you there.
The book though has a few hundred pages. We're on the same pages on all but about 3 of them.
As long as the world is rainbows and marshmellows we're good. But when the world isn't as good as your 3rd grade teacher has convince you it is and will always be... then those pages are missing in her book. :)
Amazing and incredible wife and mother... actually far better than I deserve. I just have very serious concerns. The only vulnerability in survival... the big wild-card that I have no control over... is those couple pages when it's do-or-die and she decides to plant her feet and not move. The woman can stand in one place on an issue through a class 5 tornado when she's got her mind set on something.
Like I said.. 297 pages her feet are set exactly where mine are and she's an incredible friend to have beside me. Just those three.... only God himself will convince her otherwise. :)
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You may or may not be surprised to learn how many couples are having "issues" over the "prepper" portion of those three pages. If it's going to take God Himself to bring her around, I hope your prayers are answered.
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You may or may not be surprised to learn how many couples are having "issues" over the "prepper" portion of those three pages. If it's going to take God Himself to bring her around, I hope your prayers are answered.
Sometimes you have to lead by example.
Example: We moved across the country for this job in Arizona. Arrived with almost nothing in savings (it takes thousands of dollars to move across the country) so we were bare-bones in a rented house.
I started pinching pennies and dollars and funneling everything I could into the dollar store... rice, beans, box meals, instant potatoes (just add water), etc, etc. After a while she totally came around about stocking up food. When she saw the laundry room shelves stuffed with food her whole attitude changed on that specific issue.
When we ran out of something in the kitchen... open up the laundry room door.. WHAM.. food for weeks. The security/safety I think is what appeals to her (and sexist or not I'll say: females need to feel safe/secure).
It's the prepping for other issues beyond food stocks that is the problem. She has an off switch in her head that won't let her consider the 'what ifs' because it's too spooky... and yes... just thinking about that makes her feel insecure/unsafe.
Which is the irony. Think about it, prepare and be ready and you don't have to be scared.
But no... that's another way God makes men and women different. Men think about it and want to fix/prepare the situation. To make her safe.. I have to make her feel unsafe.
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For us townies, ya really have to be able to react early when things look to be going sideways. Have plenty of vacation time in reserve, take a week off if stuff looks squirrely. If it gets worse you're hopefully at your bolt hole. But bottom line - vacation time or no vacation time, I'm getting out of Dodge...another job I can always get!
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We moved here to get away from the hellholes. We've water as long as we can make the well pump, power as long as the propane lasts and we'll manage afterward, game -- for now -- available land upon which to grow food, a giant fish reservoir five miles away, 30 miles from the nearest city, stocked food/ammo -- no reason to bug out....
Rural living has it's advantages. ::thumbsup::
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Delnorin, I can relate to your situation with your wife.
If I have more than one of something on the shelf, my wife thinks it's a waste of money.
Like you, I have a good wife. But one that doesn't see any issues. Everything is good. Even though she works for a social service agency and sees lots of people that have never before had to seek help
Pan, like you, as long as I can get water from the pump, I'll have that covered.
But, I'm pretty poorly prepared. I do have the advantage of living way out in the country
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I'd be best just sitting tight right where I am too. I have a huge supply of fresh water (in the form of a spring-fed lake about 200 yards from my house and I have a well. I live on 5 acres so I can raise veggies and whatnot - and we often do. I have a septic system so I don't have to worry about sewage and I live in the country in a heavily wooded area so anyone looking to cause mischief would basically have to stumble upon my place to find me. Ample game in the area and fish in that above-mentioned lake. I have a cistern too if need be. Got an ample supply of firearms and ammo for self defense and hunting and have a generator to run the pump with...though I don't have a good supply of gas and should probably get a 55 gallon drum of gas or something that I'd keep in reserve just for the generator.
BTW - Del, you can buy large plastic above-ground tanks for a few hundred dollars ( Here's the one I have - it holds 550 Gallons and currently costs $399.00 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/agriculture-farming-ranching/agricultural-sprayers-spraying/sprayer-tanks/storage-tank-550-gal-42-in-h-x-67-in-dia--2137332) ). If you position the opening so that it can catch water runoff from your roof you can collect water every time it rains. A couple of things though: Boil the water before consuming it (treat it in some way - bleach, whatever or strictly use it for flushing the toilet or watering the veggies) as debris (read; bird crap) can be funneled off the roof and into the cistern. If you keep the tank above ground, especially where you live, the water will quickly evaporate. So keep it tightly closed when it isn't collecting water (just open it when it rains, and keep it closed when it isn't raining). You could bury it and that would minimize evaporation however. You'd just need to extend your roof gutter system into the cistern opening. And since it likely doesn't rain much there - you could always use a garden hose now, to fill it up. Then just seal it and leave it for when you need it. A small mesh screen over the opening will help keep leaves and twigs, etc out of the cistern too.
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But, I'm pretty poorly prepared. I do have the advantage of living way out in the country
My situation, exactly. I see no reason to panic even if the fit hits the shan.
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When we ran out of something in the kitchen... open up the laundry room door.. WHAM.. food for weeks. The security/safety I think is what appeals to her (and sexist or not I'll say: females need to feel safe/secure).
That, exactly. We joke about going shopping .... in the front room closets.
It's the prepping for other issues beyond food stocks that is the problem. She has an off switch in her head that won't let her consider the 'what ifs' because it's too spooky... and yes... just thinking about that makes her feel insecure/unsafe.
Which is the irony. Think about it, prepare and be ready and you don't have to be scared.
But no... that's another way God makes men and women different. Men think about it and want to fix/prepare the situation. To make her safe.. I have to make her feel unsafe.
I do that to myself. Early days, Gunsmith used to think I was overly concerned about various scenarios -- before we armed up, I'd imagine/plan for how to defend with the baseball bat I kept on hand -- but he'd indulge me; can't say exactly when he began doing the same sort of head-planning, but we've sort of divided a lot of the jobs. I drive the food issue, it's why I started canning; he takes care of the gun/ammo; we brainstorm together on many of the others.
We discussed the fireplace in terms of heating and came to the conclusion that we needed the insert, so we took care of that.
What scares me NOW is worrying about that which I failed to worry about. :o
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What scares me NOW is worrying about that which I failed to worry about. :o
Yup
Benelli's M4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyed7nZf9J4#)
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<insert obligatory spouse is wonderful comment here>
There is no way I'd ever be able to discuss prep with my dear husband.
Will never happen. And I can't even mention I'm doing it already. I just do it quietly.
He walked into the kitchen a couple of weeks ago and said "did you hear they're trying to take our light bulbs away?" I just pointed to the latest bag of bulbs I'd purchased at the store. To his credit he went and bought more the next day. But that's something concrete he heard on the news.
If I said we should have a plan if things go screwy he'd reassure me that it'll all be fine once Obama's out of office. And that I shouldn't worry because he'll take care of us. Then he'd go back to watching tv.
::gaah::
He thinks I've taught myself to can, garden etc because I'm a mom and I like it. Well, I've poured over old books I've collected over the years (in lieu of a mentor) so I at least know what I might need if neccessary. I'm not learning how to slaughter game or how to build a gravity fed water system cuz I like it. I don't. Others do I know. More power to ya. It's not my thing but hell, you do things for your family whether you like it or not.
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Any conversations with your children about any of the "just in case TSHTF" scenarios?
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Any conversations with your children about any of the "just in case TSHTF" scenarios?
Not in detail--yet. Only one doesn't live at home--she's only a few hours away and assuming I'd be able to contact her I know what I'd tell her to do as far as where she should go (we have a couple of options besides just staying here). As far as having extra stuff on hand she won't keep anything beyond what she needs right now. ::facepalm:: Sooo when I go visit I take a bunch of stuff along and she's complaining she has no where to keep it. ::bashing:: ::bashing:: I think for Christmas this year I'm getting her one of those prepacked backpacks. I'm sure she'll roll her eyes.
I'd really like to sit down and have a detailed conversation with the kids but that won't happen anytime soon....yes, yes they do take after that part of the parenting team... ::) So rather than get frustrated and turn them off completely I devote my efforts to becoming as knowledgable and prepared as possible.
But they also respect me so if I say time to hit the trail they'd go no questions asked. And so would my husband. And a few weeks later my husband would be all proud saying "I'm glad we're so prepared." ::facepalm::
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Foxfire Books (http://www.foxfire.org/thefoxfirebooks.aspx)
The Foxfire Series:
With nearly 9 million copies in print, The Foxfire Book and its eleven companion volumes stand memorial to the people and the vanishing culture of the Southern Appalachian Mountains, brought to life for readers through the words of those who were born, lived their lives, and passed away there—words collected by high school students who wanted to be a part of their community and preserve their heritage. All 12 volumes in the regular series are anthologies of Foxfire Magazine articles written by Rabun County high school students over the magazine's 40-year history, usually expanded through follow-up interviews and other research.
For those of you who aren't aware of the Foxfire Books and who like this sort of thing, this is a pretty fascinating series that show details of skill sets no longer in use today. They're going for $216.00 for the entire set of 12 books, but you can purchase books individually if there are only one or two that interest you. Above is the general description of what the set entails. But that description doesn't give you a whole lot of in-depth information. I'll give some highlights from each book so you can get an idea of what they are all about.
Book 01) How to Dress a Hog, How to Build a Log Cabin and How to Make Moonshine (and the still).
Book 02) Spinning and Weaving, Midwifing and Wagon Making.
Book 03) Animal Care, Hide Tanning and Butter Churning.
Book 04) Gardening, Fiddle Making and Sassafras Tea.
Book 05) Blacksmithing, Bear Hunting and Flintlock Rifles (Yes, the chapter goes into detail about how to make a flintlock rifle from scratch).
Book 06) Shoemaking, Wooden Locks and 100 Toys and Games.
Book 07) Shaped-Note and Gospel Singing, Faith Healing and Snake Handling.
Book 08) Almost exclusively about Pottery.
Book 09) Quilting, Log Cabins Revisited and Home Cures.
Book 10) Chairmaking, Railroad Lore and Gourd Art.
Book 11) Preserving and Cooking Food, Wild Plant Uses and Hunting Stories.
Book 12) Square Dancing and a 'How To' section (which includes making a wooden coffin and catching, dressing and cooking a turtle).
As you can see some of these books are pretty helpful and interesting. They were written in the 70's with first-hand accounts from turn of the century/depression era residents of the Appalachians and preserves quite a bit of the knowledge of people that practiced simple living in a rural setting.
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Any conversations with your children about any of the "just in case TSHTF" scenarios?
Now that she's a mother the attitude has changed and are more willing to listen. They're talking about CC permits which is huge.As for me I've been buying lots of basic needs type stuff mostly hygiene and laundry stuff using coupons and spending a fraction of the money on them. The kids are coming down in March and I'll have their starting up stuff here for them to take home(nice to be a truck family)