It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum

Topics => Science, Technology, & Medicine => Topic started by: trapeze on July 01, 2012, 10:46:57 AM

Title: How To Get Fat
Post by: trapeze on July 01, 2012, 10:46:57 AM
From the NYTs (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/opinion/sunday/what-really-makes-us-fat.html?_r=1&ref=opinion):

Quote
A CALORIE is a calorie. This truism has been the foundation of nutritional wisdom and our beliefs about obesity since the 1960s.

This is the opening sentence of the article and one that I have always believed. It just made sense to me. The whole "low fat" versus "no fat" versus "low carb" thing pretty much seemed stupid. A calorie is a calorie and if you eat a lot of them you are going to get fat. Over weight. Obese. That plus the fact (and it is a fact) that you can't possibly exercise enough to burn the calories that you can very easily consume...especially if you enjoy the act of eating.

Another personal belief is that some people are genetically predisposed to being obese while others aren't. (I still believe this to be true.)

However the article goes on to detail a study that looked at the actual difference in three different diets and how they worked out over time...

Quote
One diet was low-fat and thus high in carbohydrates. This was the diet we’re all advised to eat: whole grains, fruits, vegetables, lean sources of protein. One diet had a low glycemic index: fewer carbohydrates in total, and those that were included were slow to be digested — from beans, non-starchy vegetables and other minimally processed sources. The third diet was Atkins, which is very low in carbohydrates and high in fat and protein.


I was unaware that pre-1960, carbohydrates were considered to be the prime reason for obesity and that since then the "conventional wisdom" (what the government has been pushing) has been that low fat/high carb diets were better:

Quote
Carbohydrates, with less than half the calories per gram as fat, were beginning their official transformation into heart-healthy diet foods. One reason we’ve been told since to eat low-fat, carbohydrate-rich diets is this expectation that they’ll keep us thin.

Well, this study suggests that the old wisdom was, in fact, true and that the new wisdom has been wrong and that's why there is an "obesity problem."

Quote
...the study tells us that the nutrient composition of the diet can trigger the predisposition to get fat, independent of the calories consumed. The fewer carbohydrates we eat, the more easily we remain lean. The more carbohydrates, the more difficult. In other words, carbohydrates are fattening, and obesity is a fat-storage defect. What matters, then, is the quantity and quality of carbohydrates we consume and their effect on insulin.

From this perspective, the trial suggests that among the bad decisions we can make to maintain our weight is exactly what the government and medical organizations like the American Heart Association have been telling us to do: eat low-fat, carbohydrate-rich diets, even if those diets include whole grains and fruits and vegetables.

Now I have no idea if this is true or not and the article goes on to state that the study had too few subjects to be truly definitive but I do find the results and what they suggest to be very interesting. I am one of those people who are not prone to be obese but I still have acquired some "fat storage" around the middle as I have grown older. I will begin my own experiment with consciously lowering carb intake and raising fat intake to see what, if anything, happens.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: trapeze on July 01, 2012, 10:52:38 AM
One other thing that I instinctively "know" is that you can no more reduce weight with herbal supplements than you can reduce auto emissions by burning gasoline with "pollution lowering additives."

I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard the phrase "stubborn belly fat" in advertisements for herbal "remedies."
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: Pandora on July 01, 2012, 12:17:02 PM
The "epidemic of obesity", diabetes and heart disease have all risen since the advent of the government's current dietary advice, yet such is still pushed as gospel.

Recent research strongly suggests dietary fat does not result in high levels of the "bad" cholesterol and heart disease, it is, instead, carbohydrates converted to sugar that causes arterial inflammation resulting in cholesterol plaques in the body's attempt to repair the damage.

The harping on the "dangers" of too much salt is another promulgated false theory.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: Glock32 on July 01, 2012, 12:26:39 PM
I figure there is a certain amount of wisdom to the so-called cave man diets, i.e. those diets that approximate the sort of thing primitive man ate. Those diets were high in protein and fat, and low in carbohydrates. The high carb diet is a product of industrialization because it requires advanced agriculture, processing, and logistics to be so prevalent. The human body is not really well equipped to consume a continuous diet of carbohydrates, especially the simple sugars like sucrose and fructose. Our bodies are designed for scarcity, and calorie windfalls are stored as fat because it will probably be a considerable time before another such windfall. We have completely short circuited that process though, because practically every meal is now a calorie windfall as far as the body is concerned.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: John Florida on July 01, 2012, 06:16:21 PM
  I know how I got to 200+ pounds and I know how to get back to 175 so who needs them.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: ToddF on July 02, 2012, 08:40:12 AM
  I know how I got to 200+ pounds

Approach 50 while quitting smoking works pretty well in accomplishing that.  ::laughonfloor::

Quote
and I know how to get back to 175 so who needs them.

I used to know that one too, except riding my bike got a lot easier once I quit smoking.  I wonder if I burned more calories since I worked so hard biking while smoking.   ::thinking::

Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: IronDioPriest on July 02, 2012, 09:01:31 AM
I've learned that carbohydrates are my weakness, and my nemesis.

Not sugary sweets and desserts. I've never had a problem craving them. Cake, pie, donuts, cookies, candy, etc - I can take or leave all that.

It's starches for me - bread, pasta, potatoes - but bread more specifically. I think I'm truly a bread addict. I'm talking a half-dozen Olive Garden breadsticks before my fettucini alfredo. It didn't used to be a problem for me because I was so active, but after turning 40, it's like a piece of bread goes right to the gut, and too many pieces of bread over time makes me fat.

I was overweight for a few years, and found a diet plan that helped me lose weight rapidly and maintain the loss through a balanced diet and thermogenic eating.

The key is thermogenic eating. Instead of three squares a day, graze throughout the day. A small meal or snack every couple hours keeps your metabolism firing and calories burning. I lost 3-5 lbs a week while I was strictly on this diet. Now I can maintain my weight eating like this, UNLESS I overeat bread. Bread, pasta, or potatoes seems to be the three things that can thwart thermogenic eating.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: Pandora on July 02, 2012, 09:41:08 AM
I've learned that carbohydrates are my weakness, and my nemesis.

Not sugary sweets and desserts. I've never had a problem craving them. Cake, pie, donuts, cookies, candy, etc - I can take or leave all that.

It's starches for me - bread, pasta, potatoes - but bread more specifically. I think I'm truly a bread addict. I'm talking a half-dozen Olive Garden breadsticks before my fettucini alfredo. It didn't used to be a problem for me because I was so active, but after turning 40, it's like a piece of bread goes right to the gut, and too many pieces of bread over time makes me fat.

I was overweight for a few years, and found a diet plan that helped me lose weight rapidly and maintain the loss through a balanced diet and thermogenic eating.

The key is thermogenic eating. Instead of three squares a day, graze throughout the day. A small meal or snack every couple hours keeps your metabolism firing and calories burning. I lost 3-5 lbs a week while I was strictly on this diet. Now I can maintain my weight eating like this, UNLESS I overeat bread. Bread, pasta, or potatoes seems to be the three things that can thwart thermogenic eating.

I don't know what the "eggsperts" are saying now about diet-timing -- old advice used to be three meals and no snacking -- but my GI doc recommends several small "meals" a day for me, which pretty much amounts to the grazing as you've described.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: John Florida on July 02, 2012, 09:45:51 AM
I've learned that carbohydrates are my weakness, and my nemesis.

Not sugary sweets and desserts. I've never had a problem craving them. Cake, pie, donuts, cookies, candy, etc - I can take or leave all that.

It's starches for me - bread, pasta, potatoes - but bread more specifically. I think I'm truly a bread addict. I'm talking a half-dozen Olive Garden breadsticks before my fettucini alfredo. It didn't used to be a problem for me because I was so active, but after turning 40, it's like a piece of bread goes right to the gut, and too many pieces of bread over time makes me fat.

I was overweight for a few years, and found a diet plan that helped me lose weight rapidly and maintain the loss through a balanced diet and thermogenic eating.

The key is thermogenic eating. Instead of three squares a day, graze throughout the day. A small meal or snack every couple hours keeps your metabolism firing and calories burning. I lost 3-5 lbs a week while I was strictly on this diet. Now I can maintain my weight eating like this, UNLESS I overeat bread. Bread, pasta, or potatoes seems to be the three things that can thwart thermogenic eating.


 You named all three of my weaknesses,pasta bread and taters The worst is eating bread while eating pasta is the double whammy.And rice is no help either not tp mention Italian Grits,Polenta.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: IronDioPriest on July 02, 2012, 09:51:31 AM
I've learned that carbohydrates are my weakness, and my nemesis.

Not sugary sweets and desserts. I've never had a problem craving them. Cake, pie, donuts, cookies, candy, etc - I can take or leave all that.

It's starches for me - bread, pasta, potatoes - but bread more specifically. I think I'm truly a bread addict. I'm talking a half-dozen Olive Garden breadsticks before my fettucini alfredo. It didn't used to be a problem for me because I was so active, but after turning 40, it's like a piece of bread goes right to the gut, and too many pieces of bread over time makes me fat.

I was overweight for a few years, and found a diet plan that helped me lose weight rapidly and maintain the loss through a balanced diet and thermogenic eating.

The key is thermogenic eating. Instead of three squares a day, graze throughout the day. A small meal or snack every couple hours keeps your metabolism firing and calories burning. I lost 3-5 lbs a week while I was strictly on this diet. Now I can maintain my weight eating like this, UNLESS I overeat bread. Bread, pasta, or potatoes seems to be the three things that can thwart thermogenic eating.

I don't know what the "eggsperts" are saying now about diet-timing -- old advice used to be three meals and no snacking -- but my GI doc recommends several small "meals" a day for me, which pretty much amounts to the grazing as you've described.

Experts have pretty much come around to thermogenic eating. You won't find any personal trainers or dieticians pushing three-squares for weight control.

Logically, it goes back to the "caveman" thing. Three squares is a product of plenty, technology, tools, modern agriculture, food security, etc. I'm all for civilization, but I think there's some logic to the notion that our eating habits have evolved, but our bodies are essentially still the same mechanisms that they were when hunting and gathering were the sole means of food procurement.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: Pandora on July 02, 2012, 10:11:30 AM
Quote
Logically, it goes back to the "caveman" thing. Three squares is a product of plenty, technology, tools, modern agriculture, food security, etc. I'm all for civilization, but I think there's some logic to the notion that our eating habits have evolved, but our bodies are essentially still the same mechanisms that they were when hunting and gathering were the sole means of food procurement.

Thank God for civilization.  A big meal puts me right to sleep, which is why I don't eat much during the day.  I have to go to bed after dinner to "sleep it off" or grog around here until it passes.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: EW1(SG) on July 02, 2012, 10:19:45 PM
"Three squares" was a staple of the pre war agrarian lifestyle that most of us lived back then, and persisted on the farm up until recently.  (I've seen heavyset farmers, but never obese ones.)  It's a fine feeding schedule for folks that need to go a long time between meals because they are way out yonder in the back 40, working their butt off.  Literally.  But those meals, while they had a pretty fair dose of carbs, also had huge portions of proteins and lipids...bacon, eggs, ham steaks, biscuits and gravy are just a few of the things I remember from my great grandparents breakfast table.

Genetics plays a far larger role in most common health disorders like heart disease than diet possibly can, if you want to avoid heart disease, pick better parents.  Having said that, remember that there is a reason for cholesterols in your body, and that you will manufacture the ones you need that you don't eat.  I was reminded after developing insulin dependent diabetes that my grandmother always fed us bread, noodles, and cakes to "fatten us up" when I was little.

She didn't feed us fatback, steaks, and fried eggs to do that.

Further, turns out that the government's dietary advice policy was formulated by a vegetarian Democrat staffer to a Senator who famously told nutritional scientists that the government could NOT afford to wait for any evidence that his staffer was wrong.  (He obviously did not phrase it thus, but the part about not waiting for good advice is quoted.)

Agenda much?

ETA:  One other thing:  since becoming insulin dependent, which was also accompanied by an overall improvement in my health (never mind the apparent contradiction there) and an increase in my body weight, I've taken to controlling my weight by controlling my carbohydrate intake.  Admittedly it's easier for me to be aware of what it is that I am eating, because I do have to balance carbs with insulin...but I never count calories and I never, EVER go hungry...which lends credence to my belief that the gubmint is responsible for the "obesity epidemic."
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: LadyVirginia on July 03, 2012, 08:13:21 AM
The "epidemic of obesity", diabetes and heart disease have all risen since the advent of the government's current dietary advice, yet such is still pushed as gospel.

I'd also suggest the pushing of drugs to "control" these problems has added to the problem.

Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: benb61 on July 03, 2012, 10:38:48 AM
I have always been heavy (270lbs at present), about 9 years ago I heard about a diet that I thought I could do.  Atkins.  I consider myself a carnivore and thought that a diet that was based on meat consumption and limiting carbs (sugar and starch) would fit me well.  So I went on Atkins.  It was easy, plenty of steak, chicken and fish (yum), and stay away from breads, potatoes and rice (no problem) and sweets (ouch).  Over the course of a year I lost 50 lbs and got to 230lbs.  Not my desired weight but close enough, I was shooting for 220lbs.  I felt that I could start adding a few of the carbs I missed most (sweets) and would still be able to maintain my weight.  Big mistake.  I started by adding a sweet snack every other night, just something small, a candy bar, a bowl of ice cream, maybe a doughnut.  Over the course of the next 5 years I slowly regained about 8 lbs a year.  I noticed that I had large gains usually around the holidays (Thanksgiving and Christmas).  Carbs are evil and I now limit my sweets to maintain my weight, I have been between 265-270lbs for about the last 3 years.  My doctor told me that Atkins was going to kill me before I went on the diet but while I was on the diet my cholesterol improved and weight dropped and he was flabbergasted.  He said that I must be exercising more (which I wasn't) then he tried to surmise that I was just eating less (again not true).  When the weight started coming back on, he tried the "I told you so" that Atkins would not be the answer, but I know that it was the reintroduction of carbs that was culprit.  I like my sweets and when I was able to find locarb candy I was OK, since the Atkins "fad" has faded into the past I can no longer find my locarb treats and am forced to eat real sugary treats.  I just need to cut back (which is difficult).   Carbs are definitely the ENEMY.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: Pandora on July 03, 2012, 10:55:40 AM
Hmmm.  Looking at the thread title, "How to Get Fat" has morphed in my head to "How to Get a Fat Lip?"  -- keep pushing the dietary garbage on people who know better.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: Glock32 on July 03, 2012, 12:33:31 PM
Putting a wedding ring on a woman's finger has also been known to do the trick.

 ::exitstageleft::
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: EW1(SG) on July 03, 2012, 08:06:18 PM
Putting a wedding ring on a woman's finger has also been known to do the trick.

 ::exitstageleft::

 ::hysterical::

True, but there was also a time when a skinny wife meant her husband was a poor provider.

/Of course, a skinny husband implied a wife that couldn't cook.  ;)
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: EW1(SG) on July 03, 2012, 08:09:19 PM
I have always been heavy (270lbs at present), about 9 years ago I heard about a diet that I thought I could do.  Atkins.  I consider myself a carnivore and thought that a diet that was based on meat consumption and limiting carbs (sugar and starch) would fit me well.  So I went on Atkins.  It was easy, plenty of steak, chicken and fish (yum), and stay away from breads, potatoes and rice (no problem) and sweets (ouch).  Over the course of a year I lost 50 lbs and got to 230lbs.  Not my desired weight but close enough, I was shooting for 220lbs.  I felt that I could start adding a few of the carbs I missed most (sweets) and would still be able to maintain my weight.  Big mistake.  I started by adding a sweet snack every other night, just something small, a candy bar, a bowl of ice cream, maybe a doughnut.  Over the course of the next 5 years I slowly regained about 8 lbs a year.  I noticed that I had large gains usually around the holidays (Thanksgiving and Christmas).  Carbs are evil and I now limit my sweets to maintain my weight, I have been between 265-270lbs for about the last 3 years.  My doctor told me that Atkins was going to kill me before I went on the diet but while I was on the diet my cholesterol improved and weight dropped and he was flabbergasted.  He said that I must be exercising more (which I wasn't) then he tried to surmise that I was just eating less (again not true).  When the weight started coming back on, he tried the "I told you so" that Atkins would not be the answer, but I know that it was the reintroduction of carbs that was culprit.  I like my sweets and when I was able to find locarb candy I was OK, since the Atkins "fad" has faded into the past I can no longer find my locarb treats and am forced to eat real sugary treats.  I just need to cut back (which is difficult).   Carbs are definitely the ENEMY.

There are plenty of low carb treats available now, perhaps even more than when the Atkins fad was at its peak:  You just need to look in the diabetic section at the grocery.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: charlesoakwood on October 03, 2012, 12:12:34 AM

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57505149/modern-wheat-a-perfect-chronic-poison-doctor-says/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57505149/modern-wheat-a-perfect-chronic-poison-doctor-says/)

Davis said that the wheat we eat these days isn't the wheat your grandma had: "It's an 18-inch tall plant created by genetic research in the '60s and '70s," he said on "CBS This Morning." "This thing has many new features nobody told you about, such as there's a new protein in this thing called gliadin. It's not gluten. I'm not addressing people with gluten sensitivities and celiac disease. I'm talking about everybody else because everybody else is susceptible to the gliadin protein that is an opiate. This thing binds into the opiate receptors in your brain and in most people stimulates appetite, such that we consume 440 more calories per day, 365 days per year."
...

"If three people lost eight pounds, big deal," he said. "But we're seeing hundreds of thousands of people losing 30, 80, 150 pounds. Diabetics become no longer diabetic; people with arthritis having dramatic relief. People losing leg swelling, acid reflux, irritable bowel syndrome, depression, and on and on every day."

Read More... (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57505149/modern-wheat-a-perfect-chronic-poison-doctor-says/)

Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: IronDioPriest on October 03, 2012, 01:11:41 AM
I'd say that's incredible and unbelievable, but it's credible, and believable. It fits with my personal experience, I can say that much.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: Libertas on October 03, 2012, 06:55:10 AM
 I know how I got to 200+ pounds and I know how to get back to 175 so who needs them.

I'll only see 175 if I ingest a tapeworm.  My fluctuation is between 215 in summer and 230 in winter and it is directly related to activity level.  I'd hibernate all winter if I could.

The food thing is over-hyped in this nation.  I've kept from going to 250+ by merely eating smaller sizes, not going without something.

But this new info, so what kind of pasta do I get to avoid the "bad" wheat?   ::facepalm::   ::gaah::

It just never ends...

Cave man, ugh, food, eat.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: John Florida on October 03, 2012, 12:20:23 PM
 I know how I got to 200+ pounds and I know how to get back to 175 so who needs them.

I'll only see 175 if I ingest a tapeworm.  My fluctuation is between 215 in summer and 230 in winter and it is directly related to activity level.  I'd hibernate all winter if I could.

The food thing is over-hyped in this nation.  I've kept from going to 250+ by merely eating smaller sizes, not going without something.

But this new info, so what kind of pasta do I get to avoid the "bad" wheat?   ::facepalm::   ::gaah::

It just never ends...

Cave man, ugh, food, eat.


 There is no such thing as bad pasta or bad Italian bread fresh from an Italian bakery. That's health food.Only in America is there such a thing as bad for you food.only in America do people avoid meat.If you go to some poverty stricken third world hole and give them steak and baked taters burried in butter or sour cream you would be a humanitarian helping the poor.

 You go out and get a nice inch thick(insert your cut)and you would get a sermon by some pasty faced little sh*t about how unhealthy you must be.Screw them all,everything in moderation is the best health food you can get!!!


 And I'm making a huge pot roast for tonight and don't/won't feel guilty one little bit while I sit there eating taters carrots and meat all the while dunking my fresh Italian bread in the juice!!

 And I may skip the salad just cause I feel like and when I'm done I'm watching the debate and having a smoke on the patio.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: benb61 on October 03, 2012, 12:54:51 PM
Quote
And I'm making a huge pot roast for tonight and don't/won't feel guilty one little bit while I sit there eating taters carrots and meat all the while dunking my fresh Italian bread in the juice!!

 And I may skip the salad just cause I feel like and when I'm done I'm watching the debate and having a smoke on the patio.

Wow John, sounds like a great time, can I join you??  I'll bring some nice Tennessee Whiskey.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: John Florida on October 03, 2012, 05:43:49 PM
Quote
And I'm making a huge pot roast for tonight and don't/won't feel guilty one little bit while I sit there eating taters carrots and meat all the while dunking my fresh Italian bread in the juice!!

 And I may skip the salad just cause I feel like and when I'm done I'm watching the debate and having a smoke on the patio.

Wow John, sounds like a great time, can I join you??  I'll bring some nice Tennessee Whiskey.


 My door is always open to friends!!  The timer says 47 minutes to dinner.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: Pandora on October 03, 2012, 05:58:25 PM
We're having chicken cacciatore over rotini.  No bread though; need to make.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: Libertas on October 03, 2012, 06:05:10 PM
 I know how I got to 200+ pounds and I know how to get back to 175 so who needs them.

I'll only see 175 if I ingest a tapeworm.  My fluctuation is between 215 in summer and 230 in winter and it is directly related to activity level.  I'd hibernate all winter if I could.

The food thing is over-hyped in this nation.  I've kept from going to 250+ by merely eating smaller sizes, not going without something.

But this new info, so what kind of pasta do I get to avoid the "bad" wheat?   ::facepalm::   ::gaah::

It just never ends...

Cave man, ugh, food, eat.


 There is no such thing as bad pasta or bad Italian bread fresh from an Italian bakery. That's health food.Only in America is there such a thing as bad for you food.only in America do people avoid meat.If you go to some poverty stricken third world hole and give them steak and baked taters burried in butter or sour cream you would be a humanitarian helping the poor.

 You go out and get a nice inch thick(insert your cut)and you would get a sermon by some pasty faced little sh*t about how unhealthy you must be.Screw them all,everything in moderation is the best health food you can get!!!


 And I'm making a huge pot roast for tonight and don't/won't feel guilty one little bit while I sit there eating taters carrots and meat all the while dunking my fresh Italian bread in the juice!!

 And I may skip the salad just cause I feel like and when I'm done I'm watching the debate and having a smoke on the patio.

 ::thumbsup::   ::whoohoo::   ::cool::
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: Libertas on October 03, 2012, 06:06:37 PM
We're having chicken cacciatore over rotini.  No bread though; need to make.

Hey, that sounds nummy too!   ::thumbsup::

I Gen.Tsao's chicken & rice.  I'll keep it down because I won't be watching the SCoaMF.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: IronDioPriest on October 03, 2012, 06:16:32 PM
You guys are making my saliva glands ejaculate.

What? What?
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: charlesoakwood on October 03, 2012, 06:18:01 PM

Ha!  Marie, is serving Baked Chicken Alfredo tonight.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: Libertas on October 03, 2012, 06:38:14 PM
You guys are making my saliva glands ejaculate.

What? What?

Down, boy!

Drooling dog (Americas Funniest Home Videos / AFV) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CT8j5f0jLQ#ws)

 ::hysterical::
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: John Florida on October 03, 2012, 07:01:12 PM
  It's out of the oven and marinating in it's own cooking liquis and will start eating in about 15 minutes.
Title: Re: How To Get Fat
Post by: Libertas on October 03, 2012, 07:07:25 PM
 ::bustamove::