Author Topic: If they come for your guns  (Read 2691 times)

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Offline AlanS

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If they come for your guns
« on: January 13, 2014, 09:28:28 AM »
http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/10/come-confiscate-guns-know-expect/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=mgid&utm_campaign=freedomoutpost.com&utm_term=909&utm_content=1655473


Quote
Back in January I wrote an article entitled If They Come for Your Guns, Do You Have a Responsibility to Fight? The article went on to be read by a lot of people. However…

I have learned a thing or two about a thing or two since then. I wrote that article when I was just starting to wake up to what was going on around me. And to be quite blunt, if you think you are going to have time to reach for your gun during a full-scale confiscation, you may be sadly mistaken. Chances are you won’t even get to your guns before a red beam is dancing between your eyebrows.

police_stateWe have to know what to expect. This is not about ego. This is about survival and living to fight another day. So sure, I can bow out my chest and talk about how I’m going to die a glorious death with hot smoldering brass up to my knees. I can talk about how they will pry my gun from my cold dead hands. The truth is that neither is likely to happen.

Interesting read and VERY probable. It's what I've predicted before. IF I had any weapons, I'd say they would only be useful for protection against zombies.
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."

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Offline Libertas

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Re: If they come for your guns
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2014, 11:58:28 AM »
http://www.survivalblog.com/2010/04/constructing_a_permanent_under.html

...then...

"...die a glorious death with hot smoldering brass up to my knees"!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Glock32

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Re: If they come for your guns
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2014, 12:18:52 PM »
That scenario might be the case if they're doing targeted raids on relatively small numbers of people.  But people aren't just going to conveniently wait around for their turn once that sort of thing has become knowledge.

ETA - I should also add, if that guy is already going weak-kneed then what are the odds he won't be similarly weak-kneed about the prospect of going and digging up his cached weapon? 

I stick with the "if it's time to start burying them then it's time to start using them" maxim.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: If they come for your guns
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2014, 12:26:39 PM »
That scenario might be the case if they're doing targeted raids on relatively small numbers of people.  But people aren't just going to conveniently wait around for their turn once that sort of thing has become knowledge.

ETA - I should also add, if that guy is already going weak-kneed then what are the odds he won't be similarly weak-kneed about the prospect of going and digging up his cached weapon? 

I stick with the "if it's time to start burying them then it's time to start using them" maxim.

Aye.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: If they come for your guns
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2014, 12:55:42 PM »
Yeah, I call BS.
Yes, its probably a good idea to have some weapons cached if you can afford it- just in case you, personally are raided.

But seriously, there were 80 Million NICS checks in the last 5 years.  There are literally at least 300 Millions guns out there, and you think that the government could effectively mobilize  800,000 or so Law Enforcement personnel, 1.5 Million active military and 800, 000 reservists,  and thoroughly search  109 Million occupied  homes ( or 125 Million if you include the unoccupied homes)


1) without a single person in LE  Military  getting the word out or organizing their own resistance.
2) Without a single person warning their neighbors and friends on foot, on line, on a radio, on a phone and that there isn't a significant number of us that would get jumpy during a power/communications outage that would be required to prevent it?
3) without any resistance  or defections among the populace or the troops so ordered.

Lets just work it out by time shall we?  3.1 Million people, visiting homes in groups of 12 and assuming INSTANTANEOUS travel times between locations ( it takes 5 minute to come down my road and I can see you the whole way..), and that searches can be done  effectively using technology in 5 minutes with another 5 required to bust through floor boards and safes to actually take the weapons, and assume each house is completely surprised and no one has time to offer resistance.  Also assume these people don't need sleep.  So that is 258333 units going to each of 109 million homes.  Each squad has 421 homes to visit. They have to spend 10 minutes at each house. Working 24/7 it  will take them 70 hours   to complete their task.  Bring in 3 Million foreign troops to help.  Great! now you are down to a day and a half.  And you don't think suburbs in which houses are built so close that you can see into your neighbors house  won't be aware its going on?  That people won't notice the SWAT team in the humvee on their suburban street? That this can happen all in one night while everyone is in their beds?
And we aren't even talking about the prep time, moving vehicles and fuel and personnel into position so that our 258,000 teams are in position, and getting all of these people trained in SWAT tactics (no, not every LE can do this and do it well, and that  800,000  includes meter maids and Park rangers..)   And then there are another 10-15 Million unoccupied homes to search along with countless businesses.

Yes if I am one of the first in a gun confiscation it is unlikely I will be aware SWAT is there I open my eyes and they are standing over my bed with a barrel in my face. Okay, they take 10 minutes to search my entire 5 acre property and all of its outbuildings.   Then they go were? To my neighbors? Which one? How do they stop me from running to my other neighbors and warning them? I bet my neighbor has an extra gun for me too. Maybe an AR or AK. Maybe just a double barrel shotgun.  But damnit there are two men awake in this house and withing for you assots to bust in.  Oh, and I brought my gasmasks. And we lay ther in bed like we are asleep so  the thermal imaging shows us right were we should be. Only we are lying prone, heads at the base od the bed, guns opointed at the f'ing door. Don't think we will get at least one of your twelve?  That is three houses down, 418 left to go and now you are down to 11 men, and who else heard the shooting?

 Getting on a horse with a bull horn like Paul Revere and warning the entire F'ing town? Shoot me when I try? How many more do they wake up doing that?

Seriously, articles like this are propaganda for the Admin - they have to be.  You don't have a chance. Obey. Bury your guns.  Hey here is an idea- bury some guns and keep others handy.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 01:06:29 PM by Weisshaupt »

Online Pandora

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Re: If they come for your guns
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2014, 01:30:02 PM »
The raising of the alarm, or rather, the prevention of it, is why they kill you when they come for the guns -- the news then reads "meth lab/arsenal, too bad/so sad".
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline AlanS

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Re: If they come for your guns
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2014, 02:03:44 PM »
The raising of the alarm, or rather, the prevention of it, is why they kill you when they come for the guns -- the news then reads "meth lab/arsenal, too bad/so sad".

"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."

Thomas Jefferson

Offline Glock32

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Re: If they come for your guns
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2014, 02:06:27 PM »
This is total FUD from the statists. They have deliberately cultivated this mythos of the omniscient state to strike a chord of hopeless futility. It's like the leaked FBI papers from the 70s where they were talking about wanting the public to become convinced of the "agent behind every mailbox".

But even if it's all 100% accurate, what, just submit and accept your fate as a subject? Tyranny has to be resisted regardless of the perceived odds.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: If they come for your guns
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2014, 02:21:53 PM »
The raising of the alarm, or rather, the prevention of it, is why they kill you when they come for the guns -- the news then reads "meth lab/arsenal, too bad/so sad".

Well, if they are just moving house to house killing everyone they have a better chance of getting the job done.  I still think thier chances of keeping an operation like that secret are about zero.  Its one thing to convince LE to go house to house taking guns, anther sending them to them killing ( silently - wouldn't want to raise alarm)  men, women and children in their beds by slitting their throats.  ( you think a 12 year old boy doesn't have the ability to warn people?) Oh sure,the committed leftist you know wouldn't think twice about killing evil greedy selfish individual freedom loving people like us- but they would still want someone else to do it.  Even when they are slitting throats someone may have a pistol under their pillow.  This is just not a risk free operation for them, nor it is a foregone conclusion that they could succeed.  They certainly couldn't pull it off in a single night, and by the next day, folks would notice certain people were missing.

Offline Libertas

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Re: If they come for your guns
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2014, 07:28:06 AM »
The raising of the alarm, or rather, the prevention of it, is why they kill you when they come for the guns -- the news then reads "meth lab/arsenal, too bad/so sad".

Well, if they are just moving house to house killing everyone they have a better chance of getting the job done.  I still think thier chances of keeping an operation like that secret are about zero.  Its one thing to convince LE to go house to house taking guns, anther sending them to them killing ( silently - wouldn't want to raise alarm)  men, women and children in their beds by slitting their throats.  ( you think a 12 year old boy doesn't have the ability to warn people?) Oh sure,the committed leftist you know wouldn't think twice about killing evil greedy selfish individual freedom loving people like us- but they would still want someone else to do it.  Even when they are slitting throats someone may have a pistol under their pillow.  This is just not a risk free operation for them, nor it is a foregone conclusion that they could succeed.  They certainly couldn't pull it off in a single night, and by the next day, folks would notice certain people were missing.

There is some truth to what Pan says though.  Is this a total PsyOp by statists to get people nervous and show their hand?  Sure, but what really are they seeing that the NSA et al hasn't already alerted to them?  They know there are millions of patriots out there who will die with their boots on and leave smoking piles of brass around their feet.  And they know anything they do covert or overt is not going to stay quiet for long, and so I think they have to follow a set of basic steps.  They have to prepare the populace for whats coming, not all, just most, and they have to not let up on this on multiple fronts.  Then they have to somehow decapitate the freedom movement heirarchy, not easy to do given its diverse and distributed nature, and it is here that we will have the propaganda BS Pan mentions - meth labs, cults, terrorist cells...whatever BS advances their agenda and fits the conditioning they've established.  By the time they get to Joe & Jill Liberty they will be counting on chaos and fear.  They'll be getting neighbor to turn on neighbor, friend on freind, co-worker on co-worker...family member on family member.  They have to do the slow game or go fast and escalate to WMDs and live with the massive collateral damage in humans and resources and infrastructure.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Glock32

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Re: If they come for your guns
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2014, 09:59:54 AM »
The State has obvious advantages in the ability to unleash heavy weaponry, but that's simultaneously one of its biggest disadvantages because once it resorts to using that advantage the dynamic will be completely different.

The dynamic of executing SWAT raids on people in their homes (people who are probably not prepared for it when it comes) is entirely different from the dynamic that will take shape when it becomes apparent that the State is transitioning into open tyranny. I believe the majority of their doctrine is centered around offensive action, projection of power, etc. What happens when they're no longer the only ones interested in offensive action? So many forms that could take, from well organized harassing action to random pot shots. When the FBI setup a base of operations in the area around the Nantahala forest in the NC mountains, during their manhunt for Eric Rudolph, there was more than one instance of locals firing into their base. I suspect that sort of opportunistic troublemaking won't require much invitation.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: If they come for your guns
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2014, 10:30:30 AM »
There is some truth to what Pan says though.  Is this a total PsyOp by statists to get people nervous and show their hand?  Sure, but what really are they seeing that the NSA et al hasn't already alerted to them?  They know there are millions of patriots out there who will die with their boots on and leave smoking piles of brass around their feet.  And they know anything they do covert or overt is not going to stay quiet for long, and so I think they have to follow a set of basic steps.  They have to prepare the populace for whats coming, not all, just most, and they have to not let up on this on multiple fronts.  Then they have to somehow decapitate the freedom movement heirarchy, not easy to do given its diverse and distributed nature, and it is here that we will have the propaganda BS Pan mentions - meth labs, cults, terrorist cells...whatever BS advances their agenda and fits the conditioning they've established.  By the time they get to Joe & Jill Liberty they will be counting on chaos and fear.  They'll be getting neighbor to turn on neighbor, friend on friend, co-worker on co-worker...family member on family member.  They have to do the slow game or go fast and escalate to WMDs and live with the massive collateral damage in humans and resources and infrastructure.

I  have always said if they are willing to go WMD on us, there is little we can do.  But if they are willing to do so, why haven't they done it already? They won't till they have to? Squeeze a couple more years of prosperity out before going full Nazi? Perhaps.   But the slow game seems to be the plan at the moment. 2-5 Assassinations a year (Breitbart) is not a purge.. its damage control.   But I just don't see how they have time for the slow game.  They have 10 years at most before the Fed Gov implodes under its own debt, and no matter how much battlefield preparation they do, 85% of the populace will put their heads between their legs when it starts, and do nothing actively  to help or hinder other side other than to cry out "Why can't we all just get along?" -because they are incapable of comprehending the issues at hand.

The Govt is playing with fire with this class warfare rhetoric-because ultimately, the Government IS the class they are inciting these people to rebel against. There is no difference now between the "rich" and those running the government, and at some point one of the entitled monkeys is going to notice that.. and seek to replace this set of elites with a new set ( themselves of course! Who better?)  So the government might end up expending resources on Martial law and riot control in the cities and have little time or care what those right-wing terrorists are doing.. ( mostly sitting in our homes, laughing)

 Yes, they will run bit after bit about right wing terrorists, meth labs  and cults, and perhaps stage a few attacks if they can't goad us into doing them. but bottom line, it ends with  people being targeted and killed in their homes or places of business. If that starts happening en mass, with 2000-4000 high profile conservative leaders killed (at least the GOP is safe)  then that is a purge, and the writing is on the wall.  Will that scare patriots into line?  Behave or you will be purged next? I suppose it might, but ultimately, you either fight or you are enslaved.  It has the same chance of frightening people into action.. once they are obviously and furiously working down a list, and you know you are on it, why NOT go on the offensive?

While the NSA can undoubtedly identify everyone with Conservative political leanings, and probably make some good guesses about who MIGHT resist and die with boots on, I suspect that  they can't narrow that list down to less than 10-20%  of the population, even if only 3% will really act when the time comes. . That is 30-60 Million people - all armed, spread across 3.7 Million square miles, and scattered in with the troops you plan to use to execute this mission. Hitler killed  6 Million unarmed  Jews over 5 years with a full police state apparatus in place.   Mao and Stalin relied upon famine to kill off their unwanted eaters.. targeted purges just can't be done that that magnitude in a short time. Stalin authored the largest of such purges and victims numbered in the Hundreds of thousands, not millions. If we have 3 % willing to fight, and their targeting is 100%  accurate, that still leaves them with a fighting mad army of at least 400,000 to deal with. ...and gloves would certainly come off at that point, and once such a thing happens, many will  gladly execute every single Leftist  they knew in retaliation if they  survived into the next day. There would be no reason NOT to.  Then it becomes neighbor against neighbor, co-worker against co-worker, family against family in a full civil war. And the outcome of such a thing isn't certain, especially if there is foreign involvement or a willingness to use WMD.

No,  I really don't think they will attempt either a gun confiscation nor an outright purge of dissidents.  If they make an attempt at a police state its  going to be by  trickery.  Some manufactured "crisis" they can leverage that convinces "most" to comply with a police state..  but define "most" - 97% is most right? And the 9,000,000 people who are resisting because they are backed into a corner and they can't escape? What do you do with them? The left isn't good at math and they have enough hubris to think they don't have to be. I suspect they will  just run the system into the ground and then abscond with the wealth they have accumulated, or they will attempt to "fool all of the people, all of the time" but won't have the success rate they expected.. and as a result, be executed in a quick and very painful coup. They simply do not have the man power to control the 3%  who will fight to retain their freedom. I am not sure "control" is even their goal here. They just want to see the world burn I suspect. They want to see Western Civilization die and  they trust that upon the ashes a Socialist Utopia will emerge. Its only capitalism and greed that prevents it you see.

Or if they desire control,  they may decide they just want the Eastern  seaboard. ( nothing useful happens in the flyover States you know. They are hicks and easily dominated..) They may carve out a little niche for themselves there,  and just release the rest of us to our own devices knowing they don't have the resources  to tame us, and figuring we are all dumb hicks anyway. . and create a place for that 9 million to run to at the same time..   They simply implement Marital law and purge in a small area and call it theirs.  Most leftists  are convinced the hinterland couldn't survive without their city tax dollars and enlightened guidance, so may figure we will be begging them to help and let us rejoin the Union in 10 years.

I am really beginning to think that Hubris will be their downfall one way or another, and  as long as they don't come at us, we can just get ourselves out of the way as much as possible and let reality broadside them full force.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: If they come for your guns
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2014, 10:47:11 AM »
The State has obvious advantages in the ability to unleash heavy weaponry, but that's simultaneously one of its biggest disadvantages because once it resorts to using that advantage the dynamic will be completely different.

The dynamic of executing SWAT raids on people in their homes (people who are probably not prepared for it when it comes) is entirely different from the dynamic that will take shape when it becomes apparent that the State is transitioning into open tyranny. I believe the majority of their doctrine is centered around offensive action, projection of power, etc. What happens when they're no longer the only ones interested in offensive action? So many forms that could take, from well organized harassing action to random pot shots. When the FBI setup a base of operations in the area around the Nantahala forest in the NC mountains, during their manhunt for Eric Rudolph, there was more than one instance of locals firing into their base. I suspect that sort of opportunistic troublemaking won't require much invitation.

Read Molon Labe by Boston T Party
 Its marginally the  of a movement of Libertarians to take over Wyoming and make a free state (as An alternative to New Hampshire)  (its Freedom Porn)
In it, a dying old man, decides to take out some prominent Judges and politicians before he dies. He leaves a manifesto and ensures that its distributed so the media can't ignore it (Seriously, if you commit a suicidal act of retribution wouldn't you make sure your reasoning and motives  were  posted  (or being autoposted ) to about 100 sites before offing yourself?)  This in turn inspires Copy cats, and the narrative turns into a how to of sorts explaining how these people do it. One victim a year, no connection to the victim but a news story, using multi-jurisdictions to confound authorities with their  own red tape  and separate bureaucracies (  live in one state, abduct the victim in another, dispose of the victim in another, using a car registered in yet another and so on..)  with all sorts of tips on methodology and technique.  If just 300 people decided it was time to adopt the methods in this book, acting independently  how many of these ill behaved politicians and judges would be left knowing THEY could be next? Two can play at this fear game.  Society is Voluntary - and the leftists  who think thy can force you into a tribe and a way of life at gun point don't understand that.  If even a small minority stop participating, things go south fast.


As you said, if the dynamic changes  this becomes very problematic for them very quickly. And the dynamic doesn't need to change among a majority-- only a minority who become willing to take the risks required and give up their comfortable lives. When you suspect your comfortable life might be interrupted by a SWAT team in the middle of the night for having done nothing but speak your mind,  its a lot easier to decide that you will at least extract some pain from them before you go..

Offline Libertas

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Re: If they come for your guns
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2014, 11:43:25 AM »
If we have 10 years then I think they slow game is still in play, I don't think we have 10 years so I think they are screwed, but between a cower-in-place-and-wet-yourself urban population on one side and a go-fukc-yourself-you-nazi-pricks on the other we could see a geographic split once the shat hits the fan...once the urban zoos run out of food and start going apeshyt I doubt the pleas and promises of the state will amount to a bucket of dreck...once they are done ravaging their own they'll invade flyover space.  But the state is insane enough to think it can get away with literally anything (look who's not stopping them now!) so I can never say they will never try X, Y or Z.  But I think the collapse is coming, I think they know it and I think the hoity-toity will scatter just before it happens...so keep an eye out for lots of "Gee, where did ________ go?  Haven't seen them around or in the news lately, what's that about?"!  Soon to follow...what hard wealth there was left has suddenly been discovered to have mysteriously disappeared.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Glock32

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Re: If they come for your guns
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2014, 01:32:10 PM »
The soft kill can't go on forever.  At some point they have to take off the velvet glove in order to implement their ultimate goals, sort of like Palpatine and Order 66.

I see two likely scenarios that will cause the velvet glove to come off. The first scenario is the Order 66 scenario, i.e. when they think the time has come to strike the fatal blow.  The second scenario is when they see their window of opportunity closing and decide to prematurely abort the soft kill and go for broke. The second scenario is the more likely one IMO.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: If they come for your guns
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2014, 01:52:39 PM »
The soft kill can't go on forever.  At some point they have to take off the velvet glove in order to implement their ultimate goals, sort of like Palpatine and Order 66.

And if their ultimate goal is to rape us, insult us, rob us and then leave for places unknown when they can no longer continue doing that? I don't think it can be assumed that control is in their ultimate plans. Wealth and or Watching the Western World burn may be all they are interested in. Consequently we will either see the velvet glove come off in some sort of WMD holocaust, or we will simply slide into 3rd world status, and the locusts will leave when they are done.  as they have done with California.  There is no logistical way for them to execute Order 66 and get away with it. They just don't have the required man power.

Offline Libertas

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Re: If they come for your guns
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2014, 07:14:27 AM »
The soft kill can't go on forever.  At some point they have to take off the velvet glove in order to implement their ultimate goals, sort of like Palpatine and Order 66.

And if their ultimate goal is to rape us, insult us, rob us and then leave for places unknown when they can no longer continue doing that? I don't think it can be assumed that control is in their ultimate plans. Wealth and or Watching the Western World burn may be all they are interested in. Consequently we will either see the velvet glove come off in some sort of WMD holocaust, or we will simply slide into 3rd world status, and the locusts will leave when they are done.  as they have done with California.  There is no logistical way for them to execute Order 66 and get away with it. They just don't have the required man power.

At present they may not have the manpower but what they do have is no less formidable - virtually ZERO political opposition (I mean nobody is checking let alone reversing their agenda and nowhere on the horizon is there anyone visible who appears to want to) - virtually unlimited propaganda power via MFM (IMO the internet kill-switch was meant to cripple liberty communications more than anything) - a soon to be monolithic unquestioning military force (the many purges are having an effect, along with the continued progressive indoctination programs euphamistically called "diversity training")...I would not be so quick to discount the prospects of our enemies intentions on any score!

As you all know one of my favorite motto's is "Prepare for the worst, hope for the best"...and we can only prepare as best we are each able, but perhaps that motto needs to be tweaked - "Prepare for multiple worst-case scenarios as best you can, hope and pray for the best"!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.