It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => 2nd Amendment/Firearms => Topic started by: warpmine on January 29, 2014, 01:47:25 PM
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Anyone use this steel cased ammo in an automatic pistol 45, 380, 25 acp etc...?
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TulAmmo is made by the Tula Cartridge Works. They used to be the main supplier for Wolf ammo, but have since been marketing it under their own brand name. Generally I reserve the steel cased Eastern Bloc ammo for Eastern Bloc firearms, but with that said I think they've improved the quality of their product over the past several years and I don't think you have anything to lose by trying a box or two.
Recently I tried some Wolf Polyformance .45 Auto in my SIG P220. I had no issues, and it seemed about as accurate as any other target fodder. I ordered a few more boxes of Silver Bear in .45. Both Silver Bear and the Wolf Poly are made by the Barnaul factory, so they differ only in packaging and type of case.
There's two main things you will hear repeated about Russian ammo, given as reasons not to use it. One is the claim that the lacquer coating on the steel cases will melt and gum up your firearm. The other is that the steel case will damage your extractor. Both of these claims are false. Regarding the lacquer, for one thing they seldom use it anymore and have instead switched to some type of plastic/polymer coating, and even with the lacquered cases you cannot get that lacquer to melt even with a propane torch. As for the steel case allegedly damaging extractors, the steel used in the cases is very mild steel. It is nowhere near as hard as the tool steel an extractor is made of.
There are people who run training centers that go through a high volume of ammo, and more than a few of them use the cheap Russian ammo without any inordinate amount of problems.
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I tried the steel case stuff in the Baretta I don't have any more and it hated it nothing but problems and misfeeds.
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Since Glock has the same make pistol I intend to in, Sig, I'll try a few boxes.
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I bought a few boxes of Tula .380 to use with my S&W Bodyguard and unfortunately I had nothing but trouble with it. The stuff just wouldn't auto feed or extract properly. I ended up selling the remaining boxes to my local store at a bit of a loss.
Now, on the other hand, l had a rather large amount (about a thousand) of .223 ChiCom steel case that I was sure was having the exact same issue with my AR15...wouldn't eject the case. Turned out, though, that I actually had a broken extractor. After I changed it out there was no problem with it at all.
I guess it really comes down to the gun. Some aren't bothered by it but others are.
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Good to know. I knew about the falsehoods in .223 regarding steel cased ammo from a youtube search I did last year. I was curious regarding the pistol ammo. Perhaps just one box is in order.
BTW, Cheaperthandirt has Armscor .223 for 7.29/20 for brass cased FMJ. Plinking ammo
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I think most people who run into problems with .223 do so when mixing in regular brass cased ammo. The real issue with steel cased ammo, erroneously attributed to the lacquer, is that steel is not as elastic as brass. It does not form fit to the dimensions of the chamber as tightly as brass, and that allows more carbon blow-by. As long as steel cased ammo is being used by itself it's not usually a problem, but when brass cased ammo is fired afterward it's now firing in a slightly tighter chamber as a result of the carbon deposits. It can be enough to make the case seize.
I really have no problem with the idea of steel cases. The USA even used steel cased .45 ammo during WWII. I would just suggest sticking to one or the other in a particular outing, especially in finicky guns.
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Well, I still prefer brass cased ammo. (And I also prefer lead ammo because that's on the horizon as an issue thanks to the cretins at the EPA. I think that I will begin to start harvesting old car batteries for lead so that I can make my own bullets if it ever comes to that.)
If steel cases could be reloaded then I wouldn't be so biased against them. But they can't be and so no one picks them up and they end up all over the place...very messy. I try and save all of my brass because one day I will get into reloading and I will want to have my own supply of cases for the rounds I shoot.
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Well, I still prefer brass cased ammo. (And I also prefer lead ammo because that's on the horizon as an issue thanks to the cretins at the EPA. I think that I will begin to start harvesting old car batteries for lead so that I can make my own bullets if it ever comes to that.)
If steel cases could be reloaded then I wouldn't be so biased against them. But they can't be and so no one picks them up and they end up all over the place...very messy. I try and save all of my brass because one day I will get into reloading and I will want to have my own supply of cases for the rounds I shoot.
I have seen YouTube video of one guy that was stubborn enough to reload steel cased 7.62x39 cartridges. It worked like a charm but I don't know if it's worth the hassle unless the govt continues the campaign of over buying brass cased ammo. The real pain is reloading Berdan type primers most have to be done by hand held device available but the primers are in short supply. Conversion to boxer primer is a real PIA.
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No doubt, brass is still definitely a better material for cases. For volume shooting where reloading is of no concern, steel works fine. I reload multiple calibers, so I always prefer brass, but I don't mind cheap blasting with steel case stuff if I'm going somewhere I don't feel like collecting my brass.
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Okay, here is a deal: (http://centerfiresystems.com/223-100.aspx)
100 rounds of .223 (steel case) for $26.99
Or same price for 100 rounds of (steel case) 9mm (same site, look for it).
Or how about this? (http://centerfiresystems.com/223-100.aspx)
1000 rounds of .223 (brass case) for $389.00 (free shipping) $0.389/round is pretty good.
Or maybe Remington 12 gauge 2.75" 00 buck...250 shells for $180 (free shipping)? That's less than $0.75 per shell...better than Walmart...again same site as above...look for it.
You are welcome.
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I know folks that have ordered from here.
http://www.jgsales.com/ammo-for-rifles-c-12.html (http://www.jgsales.com/ammo-for-rifles-c-12.html)
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Thanks for the links. Adding them to my list. I also frequently use these:
www.sgammo.com (http://www.sgammo.com)
www.ammunitiontogo.com (http://www.ammunitiontogo.com)
www.aimsurplus.com (http://www.aimsurplus.com)
www.wideners.com (http://www.wideners.com)
www.natchezss.com (http://www.natchezss.com)
www.palmettostatearmory.com (http://www.palmettostatearmory.com)
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As an aside, I learned today that my local (and only) gun store is going out of business. They have everything marked down. I asked the owners why and they said that it was just a combination of factors that came together last year. The gun and ammo shortage hit and peaked for them during the hunting season. They said that they sold a record number of hunting licenses (of which they make zero on) but had little to no ammo to sell and not much better with firearms. Monthly overhead didn't change, of course, so they had the same bills month after month but with nothing to sell (or not enough of what people wanted to buy to sell) and it started a chain reaction from which they could not escape.
I went in today and bought a rifle scope, two holsters for my .380 (once concealed and one for open carry) and a couple of boxes of .380 ammo.
This is a real pain in the ass for our community because now we will have to drive to the next town over to buy ammo and firearms.
What I am wondering is, should I get myself a FFL so that I can set myself up as a gun broker in my community. I could apply for a FFL because although it isn't cheap it isn't out of reach by any means and I think that I can satisfy the rest of the requirements needed to get one such as a store front...I have one. I hate to see the community go without a gun store plus it would allow me to indulge in one of my favorite pastimes. I have to think about this one.
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As an aside, I learned today that my local (and only) gun store is going out of business. They have everything marked down. I asked the owners why and they said that it was just a combination of factors that came together last year. The gun and ammo shortage hit and peaked for them during the hunting season. They said that they sold a record number of hunting licenses (of which they make zero on) but had little to no ammo to sell and not much better with firearms. Monthly overhead didn't change, of course, so they had the same bills month after month but with nothing to sell (or not enough of what people wanted to buy to sell) and it started a chain reaction from which they could not escape.
I went in today and bought a rifle scope, two holsters for my .380 (once concealed and one for open carry) and a couple of boxes of .380 ammo.
This is a real pain in the ass for our community because now we will have to drive to the next town over to buy ammo and firearms.
What I am wondering is, should I get myself a FFL so that I can set myself up as a gun broker in my community. I could apply for a FFL because although it isn't cheap it isn't out of reach by any means and I think that I can satisfy the rest of the requirements needed to get one such as a store front...I have one. I hate to see the community go without a gun store plus it would allow me to indulge in one of my favorite pastimes. I have to think about this one.
Judging by the store owner's remarks, you'd most likely be doing it as a community service. Didn't sound like he was getting rich.
Community service when it pertains to the 2nd Amendment is a good thing. ::USA::
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I know of several stores that stay afloat because they keep limited hours at their storefront, and do the bulk of their business on the gun show circuit. It might also make sense in your case since you already have a storefront, it's easier to fold gun sales into an existing business than starting from scratch I imagine. Sort of like hardware stores that also have a small gun section.
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What I am wondering is, should I get myself a FFL so that I can set myself up as a gun broker in my community. I could apply for a FFL because although it isn't cheap it isn't out of reach by any means and I think that I can satisfy the rest of the requirements needed to get one such as a store front...I have one. I hate to see the community go without a gun store plus it would allow me to indulge in one of my favorite pastimes. I have to think about this one.
It isn't that expensive to get the FFL and there is no requirement to have a storefront (at least as far as the Feds are concerned; your state's law may differ from NC's, though). Having one, separate from your private residence, is an attempt to keep the Feds and the State out of your personal life and affairs. Hah.
Because that's the question: do you want to invite them in, to get on their radar?
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I am probably already on their radar.
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Everybody posting here is already on the radar.
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I am probably already on their radar.
Okay, poor choice of words and anything I write to that point can and may be misunderstood.
There's a big difference between posting on the internet and having an FFL and posting on the internet. Or having one and not posting on the internet. An FFL is an invitation to wear a target. It's not that you cannot already be targeted for many bogus reasons, but now you're giving them a target and ammo.
I'm just sayin'.
Gunsmith has an FFL and he waved away my "just sayin'" too.
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Well, it's just something that I am thinking about at the moment. Tomorrow I go to a friends house to watch the Superbowl and I may discuss it with him. He would be the sort of person who might be interested in linking up for something like that.
There is no hurry.
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Since Glock has the same make pistol I intend to in, Sig, I'll try a few boxes.
I shot some of the Silver Bear .45 in my P220 today and I did have a few issues with extraction. I think it might have been magazine related though, because I had no issues in a different magazine. When I fired a round, the slide would only partially retract, leaving the empty case still in the chamber with the next round from the magazine partly forward.
I never had this issue with the Wolf, which is polymer coated like TulAmmo. My working theory is that when the slide closed and stripped a round out of the magazine, that round partly pulled the round below it forward, leaving the next round too far forward in the magazine's feed lips. This prevented the slide from properly cycling and extracting the empty case. In another magazine, the Silver Bear functioned fine with no problems.
I looked at several of the spent Wolf cases from my last shooting session. After spending a few weeks out in the cold and snow they showed hardly any signs of rust, so the polymer coating seems to work pretty well.
Let us know how the TulAmmo works if you try it. I always like a good range report!
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll117/pascalfleischman/JeepGun.gif)