Author Topic: Is this real or BS?  (Read 260 times)

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Offline Libertas

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Is this real or BS?
« on: October 24, 2016, 11:48:11 AM »
I am not tech savvy enough to understand this...camera by itself no biggie...connected to a networked machine...why would a machine accept any command via a camera?  Piggybacked in video feed code?  Seems to me this should be easily circumvented/firewalled.  What am I missing?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-24/chinese-firm-behind-fridays-internet-outage-slams-critics-threatens-western-accusers
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Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Is this real or BS?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2016, 01:20:44 PM »
I am not tech savvy enough to understand this...camera by itself no biggie...connected to a networked machine...why would a machine accept any command via a camera?  Piggybacked in video feed code?  Seems to me this should be easily circumvented/firewalled.  What am I missing?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-24/chinese-firm-behind-fridays-internet-outage-slams-critics-threatens-western-accusers

A lot of security cameras ( and appliances in general)  now support Wired IP or Wireless IP connectivity.  These cameras use IP to transfer thier images ( moving or still)  to a collection point for viewing and review ( I use such a system  made by Logitech.. who for all I know actually purchase and rebrand the cameras made by these guys) 

Behind a firewall these camera are not a threat. Connected to open and insecure networks, or using insecure networks to connect to the central point, culd leave them exposed. So both the host collecting images and/or the cameras themselves could be fooled into a DDOS attack. 40,000 cameras all attempting to stream video to one point - or host servers dumping their video to what they think is a web browser connection, could cause all sorts of packet congestion.  DDOS works by overwhelming a device with Legitimate packets,  forcing it to drop some because it can't process them all . And yes a Firewall can be used to identify the IPs sending these packet and kill them, but since they became malicious devices, no one had firewall rules installed against them. They had to be built.  Plus in my experience the talent in telecommunications industry has fallen precipitously in the last 10 years, so its entirely possible that the response to the attacks was delayed or helped by general incompetence.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 03:43:37 PM by Weisshaupt »

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Re: Is this real or BS?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2016, 02:31:46 PM »
Good info Weisshaupt. I wonder if these devices can be sanitized through a firmware update or if they're just toast.

I had a chance to purchase a "kit" - a wired system with 4 hard-wire cameras. It was a Chinese no-name brand that featured a linux OS with remote web-based interactive capabilities. The guy started at $350 (which was about par) and ultimately sold the kit to me for $75.

At $75 it was worth just about what I paid for it. The GUI is cumbersome, the setup complicated, and I never did get it on the Internet. For the intended purpose the cameras are acceptable (I don't need superior resolution or night-vision for several views) but I need a quality camera for my driveway. It looks like I'll need to pay a little closer attention to details as I shop for a new camera!

Offline Libertas

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Re: Is this real or BS?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2016, 03:49:47 PM »
I am not tech savvy enough to understand this...camera by itself no biggie...connected to a networked machine...why would a machine accept any command via a camera?  Piggybacked in video feed code?  Seems to me this should be easily circumvented/firewalled.  What am I missing?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-24/chinese-firm-behind-fridays-internet-outage-slams-critics-threatens-western-accusers

A lot of security cameras ( and appliances in general)  now support Wired IP or Wireless IP connectivity.  These cameras use IP to transfer thier images ( moving or still)  to a collection point for viewing and review ( I use such a system  made by Logitech.. who for all I know actually purchase and rebrand the cameras made by these guys) 

Behind a firewall these camera are not a threat. Connected to open and insecure networks, or using insecure networks to connect to the central point, culd leave them exposed. So both the host collecting images and/or the cameras themselves could be fooled into a DDOS attack. 40,000 cameras all attempting to stream video to one point - or host servers dumping their video to what they think is a web browser connection, could cause all sorts of packet congestion.  DDOS works by overwhelming a device with Legitimate packets,  forcing it to drop some because it can't process them all . And yes a Firewall can be used to identify the IPs sending these packet and kill them, but since they became malicious devices, no one had firewall rules installed against them. They had to be built. Plus in my experience the talent in telecommunications industry has fallen precipitously in the last 10 years, so its entirely possible that the response to the attacks was delayed or helped by general incompetence.

I don't find that surprising...nor I wager is it isolated to any one industry...just more proof that my low confidence in the long-term (soon to be short-term) viability of our infrastructure is justified.
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Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Is this real or BS?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2016, 03:59:45 PM »
Good info Weisshaupt. I wonder if these devices can be sanitized through a firmware update or if they're just toast.

I had a chance to purchase a "kit" - a wired system with 4 hard-wire cameras. It was a Chinese no-name brand that featured a linux OS with remote web-based interactive capabilities. The guy started at $350 (which was about par) and ultimately sold the kit to me for $75.

At $75 it was worth just about what I paid for it. The GUI is cumbersome, the setup complicated, and I never did get it on the Internet. For the intended purpose the cameras are acceptable (I don't need superior resolution or night-vision for several views) but I need a quality camera for my driveway. It looks like I'll need to pay a little closer attention to details as I shop for a new camera!

Well its China, so this vulnerability  might be put there deliberately by the Chinese govt. They have done it before. They could even issue a "fix" that closes this hole and opens another.  But most commonly the vulnerability is a result of someone not changing the default password, or turning off password protection altogether.  Seriously, its not hard to find an open wifi as you drive through any American suburb.  And if they leave that router admin password as  default, you look up the model and make , and simply get in as admin-- and then you can load whatever firmware you want on it - from your car.  I  work with fortune 500 companies. I sell a product that is designed to be the box that stops a denial of service attack for Voip related activities.  And Almost all of them do NOT change the default password. Both at the application level and at the OS level. With the OS I could do all sorts of crap. Now most are smart enough to not enable admin on ports facing the public networks.  But a disgruntled employee, like the guy in the car,  could spend 3 minutes looking up our default passwords for our product and then go to town.

FWIW, I have been very happy with the Logitech system. https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Security-961-000337-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B003X26LXW

  I suspect most of the complaints come from people with wiring /AC power issues in their home. The Motion detection is too sensitive in my opinion, and you can loose a second or two  when it reaches the video maximum file size, but in general they have worked for me as expected.  I don't pay for the service to watch video via Logitech's website, I just download it via FTP if I need to see it. I have it set up to just email pictures  when it detects motion, and most of the time its a deer, or a dog - or blowing grass or spiderweb in front of the camera ( Like I said, motion detect if anything, is too sensitive)  But I have had it deployed outdoors in the elements for 6 years now. Had one SD card that came with it go bad, and it was the camera the blue birds keep attacking ( The IR LEDs look like eyes to them)  The answer is to replace the frigging card.  Granted , its logitech so support is virtually unavailable, but  I never needed any.

Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Is this real or BS?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2016, 01:50:05 PM »
Its so cute when journotards cover things they don't understand

http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/24/internet-crashes-will-be-hard-to-stop-after-obamas-internet-giveaway/


Quote
Think of your GPS being shut off while you are traveling to an unfamiliar location in a foreign city,” Baron explained. “Dyn’s nameservers are responsible for over 170,000 domain names and websites including Twitter and Paypal.”

Sites like Google, Yahoo and thousands of others were unaffected because they do not use Dyn’s nameservers. And the online shutdown was only seen in certain parts of the world (mainly the Northeastern United States) because nameservers segregate internet traffic by region.

Um. No. If you really want to look into details, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_Name_System

When you setup your network card on your PC you have to enter a DNS server. It can also be assigned automatically over DHCP.  That becomes your "home" server.  When you want to know what IP to use to contact  foo.batsh*t.crazy  your PC asks your local DNS  to look it up for you. If your loacl DNS resolver "owns" the batsh*t.crazy domain, then it returns an IP.  Otherwise it looks for the DNS server that owns the .crazy  domain, and then ask any sub-servers about .batsh*t.   If  you looked it up before, and your local DNS maintains a cache for some period of time, your local DNS won't even ask, it will assume noting changed and return the same result.  The point is that these machines cache, and maintain duplicate listings all over the place. There is likely not just oneserer that knows about the entire .crazy domain, and likely not just one server that knows about the batsh*t domain. And once you get a response, your local DNS will probably remember that information for a time.   

Because DNS is just a large Distributed Database,  a DOS attack has to target ALL of the servers keeping information for a given domain. Not as some international autoirty comes into power they could make it harder to host a domain's DNS  in multiple locations,  etc, but by and large, there is little they can do to prevent others from building duplicates of that information. If you can get a site resolved, then  instead of caching that information, you can just store it. Periodically send out a DNS query to verify it. 

So if you are having problems with a local DNS.. CHANGE it and you will change the servers that get asked. Google runs 8.8.8.8 and 4.4.4.4 as alternate DNS servers that anyone in the world can use.  So you aren't restricted to your local ISP's DNS. You can use whatever DNS you want.  So,  yes, an international body COULD do thing to make tese attacks have greater impacts,  but no they can't really shut this stuff down. The more attacks there are, the more likely it is tat alternate (private- pay to use and protected)  DNS servers would spring up  and the public servers would become less important in the infrastructure.


Offline Libertas

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Re: Is this real or BS?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2016, 06:40:27 AM »
Wow, explained that way even a novice like myself can understand that logic!  ::thumbsup::

As Clevon Little would say...jurnotard's are "so dumb"!
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