Author Topic: Thoughts from GI's  (Read 9049 times)

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Online Pandora

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2011, 09:00:31 AM »
This whole conversation needs to be turned over to what we as a comunity need to do together to ensure our as in all of us here survive. Even if it means leaving our home to meet at a predetermined place. IE if one of us has say 20 acres to use as a base for survival.

   One person can't work and defend that kind on space. But a group of like minded people can and do it well even if it comes to taking over neighboring land and expand enough to be able to hold it together.Then the trick become where is the base how do we get ther and what needs to be brought in on the way there.

 Did I explain it right??

If I understand you, you're looking to form up a group here out of the unaffiliated, is that right?
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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2011, 10:19:17 AM »
This whole conversation needs to be turned over to what we as a comunity need to do together to ensure our as in all of us here survive. Even if it means leaving our home to meet at a predetermined place. IE if one of us has say 20 acres to use as a base for survival.

   One person can't work and defend that kind on space. But a group of like minded people can and do it well even if it comes to taking over neighboring land and expand enough to be able to hold it together.Then the trick become where is the base how do we get ther and what needs to be brought in on the way there.

 Did I explain it right??

If I understand you, you're looking to form up a group here out of the unaffiliated, is that right?

 Correct!! It's an exercise in seeing if it could even happen. We as a group are spread all over the country so how would we make it happen,can we make it happen and why would we want to.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2011, 06:38:42 AM »
Any available acreage for sale in the Appalachian hills?  A nice defensible hilltop reserve with available freshwater supply...

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charlesoakwood

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2011, 08:56:59 PM »
For me the thing that I was thinking about is that WE are a comunity of people that are like minded and I would like to play a game where we try to figure out who and where would be the best place to be if we had to depend on no one else but us.

 As in who has the best set up where is it what would it take to get all of us there and with who. What each has to contribute and so on.


A Red Dawn scenario is difficult to imagine.  We are so integrated and dependent on specialized goods and services: fuel, supplies from TP to younameit, roads, food, the rule of law, food, then to have all of that not available.  The old list: food, clothing, and shelter.  Nobody mentioned shelter and most people have more than enough clothing to last until attritted or civilization is regained.

Appalachia: having no anecdotal knowledge of the area - questions of food supply; are there farms in that region that would support the extra personnel or (I saw Deliverance) would we be on the menu?  

Considering a group of 15 or so, being 15 relatively middle aged males with and without family - some very young and some pretty old, literate, and self disciplined.  The group is safer if it is nomadic however if it remains nomadic it will become predatory sooner rather than later.  On the other hand, as soon as the group establishes a territory it becomes vulnerable and the more established the more vulnerable.   This group may be an attractive crew to a small, *300 or so acre, truck farmer - dairy - or cattle.  It would be a mutually beneficial arrangement.  The farmer has a natural wisdom denied city folk. And he will have quality labor;  labor will have food and a civilized locus and the farmer's product remains viable for trade.    This is the natural beginnings of a small community and an opportunity for entrepreneurs.

*300 acres is a number plucked.  Each geographic region and each farm has an established number of people it will feed per acre.  A region that is more productive with less fertilizer and irrigation would be the better choice.


Agriculturist Resource Maps options at website

« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 09:01:01 PM by Charles Oakwood »

Online John Florida

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2011, 09:59:54 PM »
 And I have a completely opposite opinion. Taking the group we have here and add to that our family member and we have youth and numbers and people that have a fair amount of trust between us which means stability within the group.

 As far as nomadic goesthat is what I would expect to happen people will split off and go on a scavenger hunt leaving behind their comfort zones and making themselves targets to other nomads.The people that have a defined area and work the area making it home food production and a defensive position because you know your turf and you have the advantage of being prepared for the long haul.

 Done right 25 acres would take care of a 100 people nothing fancy but it would only improve as the failed groups are forced to move on making more room for expansion for the organized willing to do the work. Housing isn't any more than Tents and then more permanent structures that will make themselves available in short order. Even if it means taking things apart and moving them piece by piece to where you need them to be.

 Farming/construction equipment will be around and learning to use it won't be a big deal. Learning how to make fuel would come in time. In the beginning it's a matter of scavenging and putting all in place.

 What were talking about won't happen over night which gives a couple of months to put it together and head to where it's going to be.
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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2011, 10:08:30 PM »
And I have a completely opposite opinion. Taking the group we have here and add to that our family member and we have youth and numbers and people that have a fair amount of trust between us which means stability within the group.

 As far as nomadic goesthat is what I would expect to happen people will split off and go on a scavenger hunt leaving behind their comfort zones and making themselves targets to other nomads.The people that have a defined area and work the area making it home food production and a defensive position because you know your turf and you have the advantage of being prepared for the long haul.

 Done right 25 acres would take care of a 100 people nothing fancy but it would only improve as the failed groups are forced to move on making more room for expansion for the organized willing to do the work. Housing isn't any more than Tents and then more permanent structures that will make themselves available in short order. Even if it means taking things apart and moving them piece by piece to where you need them to be.

 Farming/construction equipment will be around and learning to use it won't be a big deal. Learning how to make fuel would come in time. In the beginning it's a matter of scavenging and putting all in place.

 What were talking about won't happen over night which gives a couple of months to put it together and head to where it's going to be.

Concur.

Nomads ...... tsk.  Good Lord.
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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2011, 06:48:22 AM »
It's an either/or proposition unless you have such significant advantages in personnel (numbers, quality & background), equipment, weapons & ammunition, food and the ability to produce/acquire it, fuel, medicine, fresh water and land (defensible & tillable).  Either you are a scavenging horde raiding others for what you need and live with the nefarious status that entails and the challenges and dilemmas in finding new recruits to replenish routine losses or you hunker down and make a go of it hopefully on defensible ground with adequate shelter and access to fresh water and nearby tillable land.  But even with the latter there will be times were scavenging parties may be necessary and/or trading parties with other communities requiring both to risk traversing nomad lands.  If you hole up and your party is not that large, well, even the best fortification will fall or supplies will run out and force you out.  Likewise if your raiding party is too small, you could be sliced up pretty quick by larger packs of nomads.  (And nomads will always have to be on the move, risking entry in more and more hostile areas!) So a larger well protected well provisioned and well led community should stand a better chance of surviving than most other options one might have available.
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charlesoakwood

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2011, 09:20:41 AM »
It's an either/or proposition unless you have such significant advantages in personnel (numbers, quality & background), equipment, weapons & ammunition, food and the ability to produce/acquire it, fuel, medicine, fresh water and land (defensible & tillable).  Either you are a scavenging horde raiding others for what you need and live with the nefarious status that entails and the challenges and dilemmas in finding new recruits to replenish routine losses or you hunker down and make a go of it hopefully on defensible ground with adequate shelter and access to fresh water and nearby tillable land.  But even with the latter there will be times were scavenging parties may be necessary and/or trading parties with other communities requiring both to risk traversing nomad lands.  If you hole up and your party is not that large, well, even the best fortification will fall or supplies will run out and force you out.  Likewise if your raiding party is too small, you could be sliced up pretty quick by larger packs of nomads.  (And nomads will always have to be on the move, risking entry in more and more hostile areas!) So a larger well protected well provisioned and well led community should stand a better chance of surviving than most other options one might have available.

 ::thumbsup::


Offline Predator Don

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2011, 01:06:14 PM »
OK.... In case of emergency....I'll invite all to Tennessee.....Plenty of places for a group to "get lost". And I'm comin clean because me and my brothers do have a plan.

If there were a catastrophic occurance, getting everyone to one central location could prove difficult to impossible. If things fell apart over time (like now..lol) it would be much easier. Friends and family have discussed. It's good to have people in your group with different skill sets. Different strengths AND like minded. Also, just owning some acreage, depending on location, will not suffice. Too close to "civilization" is not good, imho.

My brothers and I have taken a different tact. We all have some supplies, but admittedly, not enough to survive a prolonged (at least 6 months), I'll call it "downturn".....But we all have a "list" of things to gather. One has some land, no real roads... but a stocked lake and plenty of game. Our only other families are a is a Dr and dentist. Sister in law is a nurse. Brother an officer. Me, my brothers....including families, about 25 in all. Any larger and I believe there can be "breakdowns". We all hunt and fish...we all can shoot.

We believe if there is any disintergration in America there will be a few days/weeks window, a disbelief period, trying to gather it together. This is the time to act, get ur chit together and take a family "vacation". Know where you are gonna gather ur supplies. Frankly, if it is catastrophic in nature event, most likely will be a terrorist attack, dirty bomb, chemical or biological weapon. All bets could be off, depending on location attacked.

We have some redundencies in our lists. Like seed, filtration, fuel, weapons, first aid, few other things. None of us believe we could use a "home" as a base of operation. 6 month supplies. Believe it will take 6 months to sort out. 6 months additional to live off the land. After a year, if things are bad......
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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2011, 01:29:48 PM »
Sounds like a plan, Don.  Good skill-mix -- medical people especially.
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Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2011, 01:45:07 PM »
This whole conversation needs to be turned over to what we as a comunity need to do together to ensure our as in all of us here survive. Even if it means leaving our home to meet at a predetermined place.

If Michelle and I were to start over again, we would probably buy land in the Black Hills of South Dakota ( one of our friends is prepping there) SD has no income Tax (fairly high property tax though),  is generally conservative politically, has a low population density, and allows viable farming and ranching even though it isn't prime farmland. Wyoming and Utah are other good candidates

1) Prime Farmland will likely be seized by the government, or you will be pushed out so they can sell it to forigners to help pay debts and cut deals. You want land good enough to  feed you and yours, but not good enough for external production.

2) Sharecropping will likely make more sense than owning. Large properties will almost always result in large tax bills. Agricultural rates are low now, but I wouldn't count on that being true as Food prices rise and the Govt wants their share of the take. Having land nearby  you can sharecrop/lease or otherwise appropriate gives you the benefits of ownership without a profile that the government will notice. As the govt becomes strapped for cash they will have fewer park rangers, game wardens etc, so being close to public lands will also give you additional resources. 2 acres adjoining 1000s of acres of vacant land is probably more useful than the 1000 acres. If things really get bad, you need to defend what is "yours" or it no longer is yours - and that is resources you could have used for other things. .

3) As most of the responses  to the GI post suggest, 15 won't be enough. You will need to form a real clan, 100 or more. Doing this pre-SHTF will be difficult if not impossible. You are better off moving to a rural  area where the likelyhood of "spontaneous"clan formation will occur. Look for a place where the people are proud of their identity as locals, where geography suggests a clan division, and values that are predominantly conservative. Obviously this area should also be tactically defensible. Once Identified you need to get local plates for your vehicles, go to the community picnics and events, and start making yourself known as"one of them" and not a "part-timer"

4) Identify the raw resources in that area and investigate what could be done to get at them. Could you get your own salt locally? How about Black Powder? Are there Natural Gas Wells that could be pressed into the service of the Clan? Get a permit to make Alcohol Fuel. Making distilled Spiris will ALWAYS be a useful skill.

5)  Arrange to provide your own water  Land with a Small Spring is good, but I am not sure about having ground water like a creek . Nomadic People will follow water upstream when traveling fo fishing and as a source. You don't need them wantering into your compound. Wells are good,  and probably better than a spring which may go dry in a bad year - wells are deep and can be drilled deeper - pretty much ensureing there is water in them, but you need o also ensure you have a means of pumping the water out.

6) Power may stay on during all of this, but if lines are stolen from a rural area, you  could be without power for weeks or months.  And of course, you are only going to see the prices going up. So a large solar array is required.That means you need unobstructed Solar exposure. There are VERY FEW places where wind is a reliable source, and it will cost more per KW than the equivalent Solar Array, while also putting up a nice tower that can be seen from a distance letting others know you have power. The Solar irradiience is better the furher South you go

7) Sewage and Trash. Make sure that there are places these things are going to go other than open pits. Local Dump. Spetic Tanks.  Beware that most septic systems will fail if overused. If youplan multiple families living in a compund or close to one another, you need separate systems.

8) Harsh Climate. You are probably looking for a place where the elements at least occasionaly  pose a danger to human survival for the unprepared. Its going to cut down on nomadic incursion and raiding. No one is going to Migrate North for the winter. a Tropic or temperate climate is great for growing food, but it also ensures that those without shelter will not die of cold during the night,and neither will any diseases growing in the sewage they leave.  

The biggest problem with organizing a group as spread out as this forum is  is the prep time. My buddy in the Black hills is 6 hours from his Teotwaki place. It takes a long time to get things ready. Way longer than you might think. Unless someone is unemployed and prepping is going to be full time, getting things ready will not take months. It will take years.

charlesoakwood

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2011, 02:01:56 PM »

Weisshaupt, that's very comprehensive. Two things popped into mind.

Quote
5)  Arrange to provide your own water ...
Wells are microbe sanitary.  The way they become unsanitary is the area proximal to the shaft exposed to contaminants or bacteria going down the shaft. 

Quote
8) Harsh Climate. ...[I'm a temperate type]...
 a Tropic or temperate climate is great for growing food, but it also ensures that those without shelter will not die of cold during the night,and neither will any diseases growing in the sewage they leave.

DDT or a variation, is it obtainable or easy to make?

If one has a location secured and ample water a simple septic system
would not be difficult or expensive.  A 55 gallon drum will last a couple of years even in bayou country.




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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2011, 03:49:08 PM »
OK.... In case of emergency....I'll invite all to Tennessee.....Plenty of places for a group to "get lost". And I'm comin clean because me and my brothers do have a plan.

If there were a catastrophic occurance, getting everyone to one central location could prove difficult to impossible. If things fell apart over time (like now..lol) it would be much easier. Friends and family have discussed. It's good to have people in your group with different skill sets. Different strengths AND like minded. Also, just owning some acreage, depending on location, will not suffice. Too close to "civilization" is not good, imho.

My brothers and I have taken a different tact. We all have some supplies, but admittedly, not enough to survive a prolonged (at least 6 months), I'll call it "downturn".....But we all have a "list" of things to gather. One has some land, no real roads... but a stocked lake and plenty of game. Our only other families are a is a Dr and dentist. Sister in law is a nurse. Brother an officer. Me, my brothers....including families, about 25 in all. Any larger and I believe there can be "breakdowns". We all hunt and fish...we all can shoot.

We believe if there is any disintergration in America there will be a few days/weeks window, a disbelief period, trying to gather it together. This is the time to act, get ur chit together and take a family "vacation". Know where you are gonna gather ur supplies. Frankly, if it is catastrophic in nature event, most likely will be a terrorist attack, dirty bomb, chemical or biological weapon. All bets could be off, depending on location attacked.

We have some redundencies in our lists. Like seed, filtration, fuel, weapons, first aid, few other things. None of us believe we could use a "home" as a base of operation. 6 month supplies. Believe it will take 6 months to sort out. 6 months additional to live off the land. After a year, if things are bad......


 Don't forget as other people were to join in that means they all have things to add to the mix as far as supplies and skill sets ans equipment that will all add to the place.


 There has to be a mix of ages no doubt but there is no such thing as a useless person even if it means guard duty.But having people that can build things and carry things is going to be important even if it comes to digging a well of  and out house.Repairing equipment and in Pandora's case a gunsmith.

 Equipment I believe will be around for the taking like construction and farming as I believe most people won't be prepared or able to hang on to it. To be honest with you one stolen truck of fuel will go a long way to saving lives.


  Having trucks of our own will be a huge advantage as for being able to carry and pull things.And having heavy trailer will be even more important than truck as in my case my truck is able to carry 1500 pounds no problem but it will pull 7500 pounds so pulling is the way to go.
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Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2011, 04:01:18 PM »
DDT or a variation, is it obtainable or easy to make?

If one has a location secured and ample water a simple septic system
would not be difficult or expensive.  A 55 gallon drum will last a couple of years even in bayou country.

Instapundit I think posted the DDT process about a year ago.. it is possible to make with some standard Chemistry equipment, but I believe the process produces noxious fumes so a Hood is neededand its slightly dangerous. .  But even if you control the insects with DDT, you are simply going to be exposed to more diseases in a tropical climate, and the  feral nomads aren't going to bother with the 55 gallon drum septic. They are going to dump anywhere and everywhere they please. It will fester, get into the water supply, and because a tropical zone makes it easy to survive, there will be more nomads to contract and carry the disease. .  A harsh climate makes it difficult for the unprepared and shelterless to survive, so everyone who belongs to the community has a solid stake in a place somewhere, and vagrants and passer-through can't just hang out because "they like it"

If we really get to a Mad Max Clan world, you can bet that the bulk of world population will migrate to the tropics.  Historically the outsiders of a civilization have migrated to the mountains because its too much a pain to attack them, and the land isn't worth taking. If you can survive there, its built in advantage,.

charlesoakwood

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2011, 04:55:32 PM »

Aw gee's, long pants, leather shoes (no-flip flops), and and  ::falldownshocked:: a coat.  Methinks your right, oh well, sportsmansguide here I come.




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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2011, 05:46:03 PM »
DDT or a variation, is it obtainable or easy to make?

If one has a location secured and ample water a simple septic system
would not be difficult or expensive.  A 55 gallon drum will last a couple of years even in bayou country.

Instapundit I think posted the DDT process about a year ago.. it is possible to make with some standard Chemistry equipment, but I believe the process produces noxious fumes so a Hood is neededand its slightly dangerous. .  But even if you control the insects with DDT, you are simply going to be exposed to more diseases in a tropical climate, and the  feral nomads aren't going to bother with the 55 gallon drum septic. They are going to dump anywhere and everywhere they please. It will fester, get into the water supply, and because a tropical zone makes it easy to survive, there will be more nomads to contract and carry the disease. .  A harsh climate makes it difficult for the unprepared and shelterless to survive, so everyone who belongs to the community has a solid stake in a place somewhere, and vagrants and passer-through can't just hang out because "they like it"

If we really get to a Mad Max Clan world, you can bet that the bulk of world population will migrate to the tropics.  Historically the outsiders of a civilization have migrated to the mountains because its too much a pain to attack them, and the land isn't worth taking. If you can survive there, its built in advantage,.


 But in  a case like that you can only rely on the food you have. If the land isn't worth taking it's not worth keeping either. It has to produce or it's pointless.
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Offline Predator Don

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2011, 07:04:23 PM »
OK.... In case of emergency....I'll invite all to Tennessee.....Plenty of places for a group to "get lost". And I'm comin clean because me and my brothers do have a plan.

If there were a catastrophic occurance, getting everyone to one central location could prove difficult to impossible. If things fell apart over time (like now..lol) it would be much easier. Friends and family have discussed. It's good to have people in your group with different skill sets. Different strengths AND like minded. Also, just owning some acreage, depending on location, will not suffice. Too close to "civilization" is not good, imho.

My brothers and I have taken a different tact. We all have some supplies, but admittedly, not enough to survive a prolonged (at least 6 months), I'll call it "downturn".....But we all have a "list" of things to gather. One has some land, no real roads... but a stocked lake and plenty of game. Our only other families are a is a Dr and dentist. Sister in law is a nurse. Brother an officer. Me, my brothers....including families, about 25 in all. Any larger and I believe there can be "breakdowns". We all hunt and fish...we all can shoot.

We believe if there is any disintergration in America there will be a few days/weeks window, a disbelief period, trying to gather it together. This is the time to act, get ur chit together and take a family "vacation". Know where you are gonna gather ur supplies. Frankly, if it is catastrophic in nature event, most likely will be a terrorist attack, dirty bomb, chemical or biological weapon. All bets could be off, depending on location attacked.

We have some redundencies in our lists. Like seed, filtration, fuel, weapons, first aid, few other things. None of us believe we could use a "home" as a base of operation. 6 month supplies. Believe it will take 6 months to sort out. 6 months additional to live off the land. After a year, if things are bad......


 Don't forget as other people were to join in that means they all have things to add to the mix as far as supplies and skill sets ans equipment that will all add to the place.


 There has to be a mix of ages no doubt but there is no such thing as a useless person even if it means guard duty.But having people that can build things and carry things is going to be important even if it comes to digging a well of  and out house.Repairing equipment and in Pandora's case a gunsmith.

 Equipment I believe will be around for the taking like construction and farming as I believe most people won't be prepared or able to hang on to it. To be honest with you one stolen truck of fuel will go a long way to saving lives.


  Having trucks of our own will be a huge advantage as for being able to carry and pull things.And having heavy trailer will be even more important than truck as in my case my truck is able to carry 1500 pounds no problem but it will pull 7500 pounds so pulling is the way to go.


I'm not sure there is a way to plan for every circumstance. I know my family and no one would be turned away, but you better be willing to work. No job will be too small, no task unimportant.

Planning for doomday senarios does suck, but we have taken the notion this is no different than planning for a house fire, flat tire or retirement. Have a plan. My hope is we never have to implement it.
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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2011, 07:09:00 PM »
But in  a case like that you can only rely on the food you have. If the land isn't worth taking it's not worth keeping either. It has to produce or it's pointless.

One person's trash is another's treasure.  The crucial difference is often knowledge. One person lacks the knowledge, skill or ambition to make a treasure, while the other has it. The idea is to exploit that phenomenon..

No one  will  bother confiscating small pieces of land,  land that has to be worked  by hand, land that requires special knowledge and/or crops, or land that produces low yields - because there is so much other land that is in big parcels, easily mechanized , and easily farmed.  Sure, eventually they might get round to you, but you pick the low hanging fruit first -because its easy, and gives you the most reward for the least amount of effort.

So if you figure out how to use land in a new or uncommon way, that requires more effort,or more skill , the cost of that knowledge becomes a barrier to others following you.. Quinoa was the staple crop of the Incas.. if we can adapt it to Colorado and our location, we will have knowledge that other don't have that will allow us to survive there more easily than people who lack that knowledge. Quinoa can only really be harvested well by hand - because the correct machinery to collect it without high losses hasn't been devised. The market for the grain is growing, but it is still quite small - and most is imported from South America where labor is cheap.  The point being: if my land is only good for growing Quinoa, but doing so is not cost effective for a large scale commercial operation, my land is unlikely to be attractive to others - even though it might adequately provide for me and mine. Hell, most people probably wouldn't be able to identify the crop walking by it.    

Likewise we are looking at raising Yaks - another high altitude animal, that isn't well known or regulated here in the United States. But it uses 1/4th the land of a cow, provides almosts as much meet, plus hair fiber, very rich milk (think cheese)  and can even be used as a pack animal. Fibers currently sell for about $16 an Oz, and the meat also fetches a very high price.  But there is a cost of knowledge to learning to raise them, and the attendant risk,  and only a small market for the product.

  While the government goes after the things everyone is doing, it is unlikely to go all out in the regulation  of the Yak breeders or Quinoa growers -- because there are too few, and their businesses are too small to make it worth while. Of course they are small niches because they are innovative and risky - the endeavors that may fail completely.  Of course in this scenario "success" means producing enough for a family of 4 - its not a commercial venture, and that difference can make my land a treasure to me, and trash to you. And that is entirely by design (provided I can pull it off - but that will take time. (We do have plans B & C in case it takes a while)  




Offline Libertas

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2011, 07:41:15 PM »
Good points all.

My clan could use a gunsmith and an engineer and maybe a chemist.  I hope we got time to put nephews into schools!

The other thing to consider about land is a safe distance from not just large urban centers, but also from potential industrial nightmares like nuclear plants, chemical plants etc that could foul your nest...depending upon proximity and prevailing winds...should the downtime be too prolonged or the plunge too fast.

I echo Weisshaupts concern over travel distances to your bugout destination.  6 hours is rough, and that's all travel, no pack time allowed.  No matter how well staged you are, it will take time to load stuff and given the severity of the crisis the available roads out of Dodge may clog pretty quick.  Best plan your loading time in tiers - If I have little time, take A items, 1/2 hour take B too, etc, and be prepared to abandon items.  Best to get ahead of the exodus if at all possible, but it may not always be possible.  Have a plan B for a wait/bolt later scenario if things are gridlocked.  Know all the potential paths between where you are and where you want to go, down to dirt roads, you cannot bank on satellites operating your GPS units if an EMP knocks 'em out.

I have a two hour travel time and add another hour if I have to get out of work and hit home, so as little as 4 hours lead time is my safety margin to skedaddle.  Anything less than that and I am pushing my luck.

If an apocalyptic event hits, time margins are moot, it will be full-blown chaos from the get-go.  In that survival situation you are stuck with what you have on you or what you might have squirreled away in your vehicle.  God help us all in that case!
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Online John Florida

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2011, 08:40:18 PM »
 Guys the chances of it going to hell in a minute are really remote unless you're talking about nuclear attack at which point all this is to nothing depending where it hits and even then there will be time to move assuming you have a plan.
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