Author Topic: Thoughts from GI's  (Read 8618 times)

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Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2011, 09:08:10 PM »
I echo Weisshaupts concern over travel distances to your bugout destination.  6 hours is rough, and that's all travel, no pack time allowed. 

Actually you are better off just living in our bugout place if you things are going to deteriorate that fast.  The drive time is more of an issue when Prepping.  You are taking load after load of stuff, working on getting systems installed, and trying to get ready, and a drive time that is too long simply takes too much time if you have any sort of life. My buddy has a six hour dirve. I have two small children... 2 Hours and they ae clawing at the doors to get out of the car. Not to mention managing any construction etc that goes on by contractors etc. 

I dothink  John is right, and you will have plenty of time to pack and get outta dodge once you decide its time. I think there are some time sensitive scenarios that could arise, like a  dirty nuke, or a disease epidemic. What is more likely is the Argentina style civil unrest and even then there will be enough time to leave. .. provided your place already is prepped and ready for you. More and more I don't think we will see a sudden collapse reslting in a panic. The sheep are just plain too stupid to be startled.

charlesoakwood

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2011, 09:15:37 PM »

Suitcase nukes were all the rage in '01 and '02.  I suppose if they ever were functional they aren't anymore.


charlesoakwood

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2011, 10:10:36 PM »

Re: http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,1999.msg22475.html#msg22475
A Request To All Current/Former NCOs And Other Small Unit Leaders

Here’s the first response to the wrsa

Dear Sir,

I am writing in response to your recent blog post. I have some fairly recent Infantry combat experience as an NCO leading a fire-team and then a rifle squad. I would rather not get any more specific as I would like to remain as anonymous as possible. I did some thinking and came up with a few ideas. These are fairly general, and would pretty much apply anywhere, with almost anyone in a group such as you described.

So here would be my “priorities of work”:

1) First, since we’ve already established an armed group, we need some place to, at a very minimum, assemble, preferably some place we could establish a safe house/base camp. Ideally, this would also be a place that we could conduct some training and zero weapons when we get to that point here in a bit. We want a location where we can remain “under the radar” as much as possible and that we all can reside in or close to. As soon as we figure out where our chosen location is, we go there and set up security. This is to prevent us getting nailed before we have even begun. Make a guard roster so that we have 2 people (minimum, preferably more) standing watch at all times for the next few hours while we sort everything else out. If they’re aren’t any other combat arms NCOs vets to help me, I’ll assign positions and sectors of fire for our security element and brief them on what they should do if they see something.

2) I would take an inventory of weapons, ammo, other items (such as night vision, commo, and NBC gear), spare parts, food, and medical supplies (I may have forgotten something here, but that’s most of it). We also want to start thinking about how to acquire more of these items, particularly ammo, food, and medical supplies.

3) With a 15 man group with the demographics you describe, I would then figure out who we have that are something resembling physically able. If we assume that 1/3 of the group would be disabled/injured/elderly/extremely young, or otherwise unable to shoot, move, and communicate, I would set that group aside as primarily a security group and designate them 3rd squad. If we assume that another 1/3 do not fall into that group, but are not physically fit enough to
shoot, move, and communicate, but could be with training to get them into shape, I would designate this group as another group (we’ll call them 2nd squad). This squad will be, for better or worse, our QRF(quick reaction force) squad. The last 1/3 of the group would be people who are something resembling physically fit, and thus “ready”(we’ll call them 1st squad).

4) Let’s assume that we have 3 vets in this group besides myself, one in each of the 3 groups. I would figure out who has what experience(i.e. who was combat arms, medical, etc). If we also make the assumption that 1 of these was an Infantryman (or Cav Scout) and one was a medic. I would put one vet in charge of each of the groups. I would get all of the vets and myself cross training immediately on any critical skills anyone is completely lacking. Once that has
been done to a reasonable level of competency, I would set them to work training everyone else in basic combat skills, first aid, etc. Like it or not, someone HAS to be in charge and with a group this size having “junior leaders” makes everything run better as each leader has a manageable work load.

5) At this point, we already have the group divided into 3 subgroups, and we know what weapons we have at our disposal. So now we are going to re-assign some weapons, if it is necessary. Basically we want to put the weapons that we have the most ammo (and preferably that we can also get more ammo for) for in 1st squad, since for the time being, they’ll be seeing the most action. We want to put the more odd ball caliber weapons in 3rd squad, as they are going to remain stationary, and shouldn’t be doing too much shooting. Obviously 2nd squad is going to end up with the weapons left over from 1st and 3rd squad. This probably isn’t going to be too popular a decision, if it is necessary, but explain to everyone why you’re doing it. Keep in mind that this situation is going to continually change as new weapons are captured from the various opposition groups and also from the unfortunate eventuality of us losing some gear.

This is all going to take place within the 1st 30 minutes hopefully, with the exception of training which will remain ongoing for the duration.

So after 30 mins we have
1) at least a really good idea of where we “set up shop”;
2) our group broken down into smaller sub-groups with our more and less capable individuals identified and assigned accordingly;
3) everybody has a weapon and ammunition;
4) we have something like a chain of command established; and
5) we have begun getting our people up to speed, training-wise.

Next we figure out who is short equipment, and distribute what we have so that everyone has at least some means of carrying ammo and water. Ideally, we also want to ensure that everyone has a basic combat first aid kit. Obviously the “high-speed, low-drag” kit goes to 1st squad as they’re going to be fighting shortly with what’s left going to 2nd squad as they’re next in line. This should take no longer than a few minutes.

Figure out who in our group has specific skills (i.e. mechanics, medical personnel, cooks, etc). We assign these people duties in line with their specialty. Everybody is good at something (or can be made to be), so everyone will have an extra duty, on top of their obvious duties as combatants. In a perfect world, we would have 3 medics (or something similar), one for each squad, but since this is probably not the case, we need to designate people for those
duties so whatever medical personel we do have can begin training them asap.

Someone in your group is what I call a “scrounger”. Basically this is the guy who knows where and how to get anything. We get him/her to start thinking about where to get more of the items that we will use (ammo, food, water, etc., along with other stuff that can be exchanged for what we need). Our first patrols will be aimed at locating these items, and preferably securing them.

Set up your defenses at this point. What you set up is going to vary greatly according to your AO. If you’re in a safe-house in an urban environment, you probably want to keep your defenses as low key as you can so that you don’t attract attention from whatever military forces are operating in your AO. If you’re out in BFE (Bum F**k Egypt, aka the boondocks) you can proably afford to set up better defenses.

Now we make sleeping arrangements, establish our latrines (whatever we might be using, be it an actual restroom or a slit-trench) and make our guard roster for the next 24 hours. We want to make sure that we have 360 security from here on out at all times. Establish a commo plan, as in the who, what, where, how, and why you can communicate with your security positions and patrols.

At this point we begin really training. Ideally we want 1st squad to be able to go on patrol in a few hours, in a day or two at the absolute most. Zeroing any un-zeroed weapons is a priority here. On the assumption that it is already quite violent (otherwise why would your group have come together in the first place?), you can “field zero” your weapons if you have
to.

We want to begin getting 2nd squad in shape in earnest at this point. So they are conducting training or doing PT during the day from here on out.

If we assume that for all intents and purposes there is no law and order at this point, it becomes worth the risk to go “out” to gather intel on our opposition, and make sure

1) they’re not massing in our back yard to wipe us out, and
2) barring that, to figure out what they’re up to.

We also want to see about securing more food, water, ammo, etc. Initially we want to avoid getting into a fight, and concentrate on acquiring needed items (those we can get without a
fight), and gathering intel. We also want to see if there are any other groups “on our side” in the area.

When 1st sqd finally does go out, 2nd sqd is in full kit, standing by to go help them if something happens. They can train and still be ready to go in less than 5 mins.

Once we have secured what we can without force, gotten something like an idea of what the opposition is up to, and figured out what else is going on, then we can begin real “combat operations”. By this point I would say a few weeks have gone by. Our group is proficient at most of what they should be at this point. 1st sqd has probably seen some light action by this point.

Since we want to remain alive and probably aren’t going to be able to get any more ammo or weapons without a fight, I think at this point we begin targeting the groups that represent a threat to us, the gangs or other criminal elements. If we stay completely defensive, we risk these gangs “ganging up” and destroying us, so we probably should take them out of the picture as soon as we can after they prove themselves to be hostile. Better yet, if we don’t have to take them all on at once and can take them out a couple at a time. This will probably win us some local support. We can also take whatever weapons, food, etc. that they might have had. Lastly, this will also prevent them from becoming part of any legitimate government/authority (stranger things have happened) that might come out of all this when some sense of civility returns, though this will still not be for quite some time at this point.

From here what I would do operationally would vary greatly from situation to situation. But this covers the basics of getting started.

I realize that a lot of this stuff is generalities, not specifics. However, this stuff needs to be done in almost any environment/terrain in any AO.

I think that about covers most of it. Let me know what you think.

And by the way – how many of you actually submitted your answers in the manner asked in the original post?

I chose to take answers that way as I wanted to force everyone into think through the drill on their own (rather than a comment ping-pong match), and thus improve the overall value of the lesson.

Thanks to Anon #1 for the response above, and to all for your participation.


Offline Libertas

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2011, 06:54:41 AM »
I echo Weisshaupts concern over travel distances to your bugout destination.  6 hours is rough, and that's all travel, no pack time allowed. 

Actually you are better off just living in our bugout place if you things are going to deteriorate that fast.  The drive time is more of an issue when Prepping.  You are taking load after load of stuff, working on getting systems installed, and trying to get ready, and a drive time that is too long simply takes too much time if you have any sort of life. My buddy has a six hour dirve. I have two small children... 2 Hours and they ae clawing at the doors to get out of the car. Not to mention managing any construction etc that goes on by contractors etc. 

I dothink  John is right, and you will have plenty of time to pack and get outta dodge once you decide its time. I think there are some time sensitive scenarios that could arise, like a  dirty nuke, or a disease epidemic. What is more likely is the Argentina style civil unrest and even then there will be enough time to leave. .. provided your place already is prepped and ready for you. More and more I don't think we will see a sudden collapse reslting in a panic. The sheep are just plain too stupid to be startled.

Place is 90% prepped, that last 10% can be a bitch though.  I would quibble a bit on the last point, they may be sheep and they may be stupid, but they can be startled...since my sister and I work in zombie-central my worries naturally gravitate toward successful egress should events get fugly (especially for my sister, being an RN she is also critical personnel, if need be I'll swing by and get her myself).  I think I'll keep my worries, they keep me focused.  I too am hoping that of something does happen, there is enough lead time to allow us to get out of Dodge, once home we are both in areas that are much better demographically and geographically to make it to our bolt hole.
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Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2011, 08:54:06 AM »
Place is 90% prepped, that last 10% can be a bitch though.  I would quibble a bit on the last point, they may be sheep and they may be stupid, but they can be startled...

Wow, I wish I were that close. Of course part of my "prep" is acquiring knowledge that no one has and learning new skills.  If we do the Yak thing, that is pretty much going to require us to live up there. Next year both kids are in a Virtual School, and I am trying to get demoted to a position where I won't travel , and I can work from home - still worried about isolating the Kids from civilization as it were. Without them, we would probably have already bugged out.


As for startled sheep, I should clarify.  The Dollar dropping 20%  in a day will not startle them.  It will get their attention perhaps, like any other loud noise,  but give it a week they will go back to munching.  I don't think they have the brains to put a run on the banks ( BTW anyone try to make a large cash withdrawl lately? Had a couple of friends taking out $5K and the banks gave them a hard time about it.. since all of the money printing is electronic-- I don't think the cash supplies have kept up.  Instead of devaluing the money, the govt might just declare "all cash" - it will have the same effect.)


If there is a nuke, dirty nuke, disease epidemic etc, natural disaster they could  panic. They understand that it affects them directly - of course look at all of the idiots sitting on Bridges in Katrina.  The financial stuff they don't understand  - hell they think that refusing to raise the debt ceiling is "greed" on part of the GOP, because there is just a big pile of money sitting on the other side that the GOP won't let them have. Hunter-Gatherers strip the land of resources and move on, and that  is what Sheep are.  They won't understand the financial trouble till they go to the grocery store and they can't get their favorite gourmet coffee or find they are out of arugula.  By then, you will be long gone.
 

Online Pandora

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2011, 08:58:54 AM »
Quote
( BTW anyone try to make a large cash withdrawl lately? Had a couple of friends taking out $5K and the banks gave them a hard time about it.. since all of the money printing is electronic-- I don't think the cash supplies have kept up.  Instead of devaluing the money, the govt might just declare "all cash" - it will have the same effect.)

Is there a word missing there, as in "declare all cash" what?

In any case, if you're able, the thing to do is to put aside some cash right now a little at a time (while it's still worth something).
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Libertas

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2011, 10:31:25 AM »
Quote
( BTW anyone try to make a large cash withdrawl lately? Had a couple of friends taking out $5K and the banks gave them a hard time about it.. since all of the money printing is electronic-- I don't think the cash supplies have kept up.  Instead of devaluing the money, the govt might just declare "all cash" - it will have the same effect.)

Is there a word missing there, as in "declare all cash" what?

In any case, if you're able, the thing to do is to put aside some cash right now a little at a time (while it's still worth something).

I do that...then I see a new pistol or something I just have to have...

 :)
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Online Predator Don

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2011, 10:32:51 AM »
Quote
( BTW anyone try to make a large cash withdrawl lately? Had a couple of friends taking out $5K and the banks gave them a hard time about it.. since all of the money printing is electronic-- I don't think the cash supplies have kept up.  Instead of devaluing the money, the govt might just declare "all cash" - it will have the same effect.)

Is there a word missing there, as in "declare all cash" what?

In any case, if you're able, the thing to do is to put aside some cash right now a little at a time (while it's still worth something).


I keep some cash in a safe. It may become worthless, but there is always some idiot who will take it as payment.
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Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2011, 12:42:26 PM »
Quote
( BTW anyone try to make a large cash withdrawl lately? Had a couple of friends taking out $5K and the banks gave them a hard time about it.. since all of the money printing is electronic-- I don't think the cash supplies have kept up.  Instead of devaluing the money, the govt might just declare "all cash" - it will have the same effect.)

Is there a word missing there, as in "declare all cash" what?

In any case, if you're able, the thing to do is to put aside some cash right now a little at a time (while it's still worth something).

The government could declare that all transactions must be in cash ( or if they leave the banks closed long enough, it will become a defacto edict)
There is probably a 10:1 ratio of printed currency for every dollar in the money supply ( or less. I can't find hard numbers on it)  Instead of offcially devlauing the currency the government can simply shut dwn all forms of electronic and effectively devalue it without actually printing new money.

Online Pandora

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2011, 01:22:16 PM »
Quote
( BTW anyone try to make a large cash withdrawl lately? Had a couple of friends taking out $5K and the banks gave them a hard time about it.. since all of the money printing is electronic-- I don't think the cash supplies have kept up.  Instead of devaluing the money, the govt might just declare "all cash" - it will have the same effect.)

Is there a word missing there, as in "declare all cash" what?

In any case, if you're able, the thing to do is to put aside some cash right now a little at a time (while it's still worth something).

The government could declare that all transactions must be in cash ( or if they leave the banks closed long enough, it will become a defacto edict)
There is probably a 10:1 ratio of printed currency for every dollar in the money supply ( or less. I can't find hard numbers on it)  Instead of offcially devlauing the currency the government can simply shut dwn all forms of electronic and effectively devalue it without actually printing new money.

Ah, I see now.  Thanks for the clarification.

All the reason to start squirreling .... and spending .... while it's still worth something.

Not an electronics user as a rule; we access the ATM once a week, but can just as easily go into the bank with a check.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #50 on: June 30, 2011, 01:35:49 PM »
Quote
( BTW anyone try to make a large cash withdrawl lately? Had a couple of friends taking out $5K and the banks gave them a hard time about it.. since all of the money printing is electronic-- I don't think the cash supplies have kept up.  Instead of devaluing the money, the govt might just declare "all cash" - it will have the same effect.)

Is there a word missing there, as in "declare all cash" what?

In any case, if you're able, the thing to do is to put aside some cash right now a little at a time (while it's still worth something).

The government could declare that all transactions must be in cash ( or if they leave the banks closed long enough, it will become a defacto edict)
There is probably a 10:1 ratio of printed currency for every dollar in the money supply ( or less. I can't find hard numbers on it)  Instead of offcially devlauing the currency the government can simply shut dwn all forms of electronic and effectively devalue it without actually printing new money.

If they do that they will create a panic, banks will have runs and be forced to shut down and nobody will be paying routine bills for utilities, loans or anything.  How long will businesses survive if their cash flow dries up?  Mass layoff's, food riots...

That is more than a devaluation, that is the mother of all reset buttons!  And the price inflator for food/fuel etc will be Weimar Republic Part II!  Welcome to hell!
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charlesoakwood

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2011, 02:05:03 PM »

This administration will continue the illusion as long as possible.  In 2012 if the GOP wins the illusion will only be slightly modified.

ETA: He wants it to crumble into his hands not on his head.


Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2011, 04:51:43 PM »
If they do that they will create a panic, banks will have runs and be forced to shut down and nobody will be paying routine bills for utilities, loans or anything.  How long will businesses survive if their cash flow dries up?  Mass layoff's, food riots...

The Banks will be closed before they announce it. Just like they did in Argentina. Call a little bank Holiday, pass a law seizing all of the 401K ad IRA accounts,  and then announce that a new Dollar = 100 Old Dollars (or whatever)   or just use the cash in circulation as your defacto revaluation

Everything gets renegotiated, no one gets paid, shelves are empty, and the Government sells us out to Foreign investors. Utilities are seized by the State, rolling services blackouts, food shortages, riots and violence.  I would suggest getting to the Teotwaki place when they call the bank holiday. The sheep will all still be calm them, after all the banks will reopen on Monday when everyone has "calmed down" - only the banks don't reopen till your account has been ransacked, and the devaluation accomplished

Having cash in the safe is NOT a stupid idea for use during the bank holiday period. But make sure you spend it before the announce the new currency. Also post here if you make a large withdrawl and the bank gives you a hard time, I would like to know if its happening elsewhere. I really don't think most of the  banks have more than 10-20K on hand in any given branch

Offline Libertas

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2011, 06:19:22 PM »
How fast can they turn off the ATM's?

Government can't keep a secret worth sh*t either, and insider market moves could indicate pending action.  There could be a phony war in the days leading up to such a dastardly sneak-attack, so wise people will pull their funds out right away and buy nonperishable necessities before the value and shelves go poof!
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Offline Delnorin

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #54 on: November 24, 2011, 09:28:15 PM »
I'd like to see a scenario that involves a gradual decay of civilization, which is more along the lines of what I'm expecting.

You are witnessing it right now.

Offline Delnorin

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #55 on: November 24, 2011, 09:29:30 PM »
There's a new series out called Falling Skies  which is a sort of survival after an alien attack kind of thing but I did see it lat night for the first time and it did make interesting points on survival then no comand and control exists.

I found this show very good.. much enjoyed.

Offline ChrstnHsbndFthr

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #56 on: March 18, 2013, 07:12:34 PM »
wow
“My mission today is to go forth and tell people about why I follow Christ and also what the Bible teaches, and part of that teaching is that women and men are meant to be together.

“However, I would never treat anyone with disrespect just because they are different from me. We are all created by the Almighty and like Him, I love all of humanity. We would all be better off if we loved God and loved each other.”
Phil Robertson an elder in the church of Christ

Online John Florida

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #57 on: March 18, 2013, 07:23:42 PM »
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Offline ChrstnHsbndFthr

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #58 on: March 18, 2013, 07:25:09 PM »
No, I did. Just realized how old this thread is. Sorry. Hope the moderators forgive my idiocy. YOu too, John.
“My mission today is to go forth and tell people about why I follow Christ and also what the Bible teaches, and part of that teaching is that women and men are meant to be together.

“However, I would never treat anyone with disrespect just because they are different from me. We are all created by the Almighty and like Him, I love all of humanity. We would all be better off if we loved God and loved each other.”
Phil Robertson an elder in the church of Christ

Online John Florida

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Re: Thoughts from GI's
« Reply #59 on: March 18, 2013, 07:29:08 PM »
No, I did. Just realized how old this thread is. Sorry. Hope the moderators forgive my idiocy. YOu too, John.

   The mods a good with stupidity that's why they keep me around to prove it,
All men are created equal"
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