Author Topic: Is the EU Going to Topple?  (Read 23179 times)

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Offline BMG

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Is the EU Going to Topple?
« on: October 18, 2011, 12:16:32 PM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/18/us-italy-ratings-sp-idUSTRE79H4RZ20111018

Buckle up people! This may be the start of the collapse of the EU.

Guess we'll know after we see what happens with Greece this week. Just last week I read a story about Germany saying 'no more cash from Germany to bail out Greece'. Some blog posts I was reading at the time were basically saying that the EU was set to fall either before or by the end of the year.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8819195/German-push-for-Greek-default-risks-EMU-wide-snowball.html#disqus_thread
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charlesoakwood

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2011, 12:19:16 PM »

Could say they have separated, irreconcilable differences, terms of the final divorce have not been settled upon.


Online IronDioPriest

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2011, 12:24:07 PM »
It was utter folly for such disparate nations with such disparate cultures and interests to think they could possibly unite in the first place. Socialist utopia. Phhhht.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

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Online ToddF

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2011, 12:24:15 PM »
Yes.

Offline BMG

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2011, 12:28:46 PM »
@Charles:
Indeed.

If it does go belly up it'll end up being a good news bad news scenario to (at least in my non-professional estimation).

Good news in that people all over the world will only have socialist policies to blame because all of these failing economies are to one degree or another, socialist in nature. It seems to me that this could bring about a global conservative resurgence.

Bad news in that it will bring into being a global depression that looks like it would make the Great Depression of our grandparents seem like good times.

The question(s) I have is: Is this possible near-future collapse by design as an effort to destroy the economies of the 'west' and to then rebuild with a full-on socialist government? And if so, have the globalists overestimated and will the pendulum swing back toward conservatism as a result of the crashing economies?
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

charlesoakwood

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2011, 12:42:13 PM »

The only millionaires created in Europe are those who are the children of millionaires.  No wealth is created
in Europe.  That is the result of nanny state regulation.

The United States wants for nothing, if we go back to our faith, and deregulate, our economy will take off
like a Saturn rocket.


Offline Libertas

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2011, 01:26:55 PM »
Socialism, the ultimate Ponzi scheme without peer.

It's to die for, ain't it?

/

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Offline trapeze

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2011, 01:45:11 PM »
War has been declared over less than this. We live in precarious times.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline Damn_Lucky

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2011, 04:29:27 PM »
Yes and if we don't get rid of the current admin. we are next. ::thinking::
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Offline AlanS

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2011, 07:03:04 PM »
Good news in that people all over the world will only have socialist policies to blame because all of these failing economies are to one degree or another, socialist in nature. It seems to me that this could bring about a global conservative resurgence.

But try to get the socialists to admit their failures. Good luck with that.
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Offline Sectionhand

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2011, 05:36:20 AM »
When the EU was first proposed I had to laugh . I told anyone who would listen that those countries haven't been able to agree on a damned thing in a thousand years . Why in hell should they start now ?

Offline BMG

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2011, 08:32:25 PM »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/8843785/New-euro-empire-plot-by-Brussels.html

Quote
European Union chiefs are drawing up plans for a single “Treasury” to oversee tax and spending across the 17 eurozone nations.

The proposal, put forward by Herman Van Rompuy, the European Council president, would be the clearest sign yet of a new “United States of Europe” — with Britain left on the sidelines.

The plan comes as European governments desperately trying to save the euro from collapse last night faced a new bombshell, with sources at the International Monetary Fund saying it would not pay for a second Greek bail-out.

So in essence what this piece is saying is that since throwing money at the problem through bailouts which has not worked (duh!),  the EU is looking to gather all of the 'treasuries' of all of the member nations under one umbrella - effectively ending the sovereignty of each of those members. I would think that that would be even more difficult to do than juggling bailouts frankly.

This is looking pretty ominous to me - I've been reading blogs and opinion pieces for the last couple months that are saying that the EU will fall by the end of the year and this seems like a hail Mary pass on the part of the EU leadership that I have doubts is going to work out favorably. I'm starting to think that those blogs and articles are pretty close to being right on the money.

Here's another quote from this piece:

Quote
The single Treasury plan emerged in Brussels yesterday as Europe’s finance ministers tried to find a way out of the crisis engulfing the eurozone. A full-scale rescue plan could cost about £1.75 trillion.

Germany in particular who has been fronting the lion's share of the bailout cashola thus far is balking at coming up with still more to bridge that 1.75 Trillion pound sterling (or about 2.7 trillion dollars) shortfall that they currently have in order to bail out the EU. Thus, the whole notion of bailing out the EU has apparently fallen to the wayside and they are now considering this other method.

Wow...socialism and big government advocates sure do cause a lot of trouble don't they?

On the other side of the pond (over here that is), it seems we have this to look forward to if the EU should fall.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/eu-bank-failures-will-crash-wall-street-again-2011-10-18
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

Online Pandora

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2011, 09:09:44 PM »
Insanity is keeping doing whatever one does and expecting a different result.  They're going to double-down on their failure -- do it harder!
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Online John Florida

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2011, 09:14:40 PM »
All the EU managed to do was open it's borders and let every form of vermin in to help speed up the fall of the EU.Overwhelm the system from within and watch it collaps.Get so many people on the dole that the goverments fail. Sound familiar?
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Offline BMG

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2011, 09:26:12 PM »
@Pandora and John Fl.:

Yup.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

Offline Dan

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2011, 09:38:35 PM »
I just don't see it as an "if", just a "when". It can't be sustained.
Cloward and Piven may have put a name on it,. but the idea, a form of economic warfare, isn't new. They're Marxists, after all.
And as far as a "global conservative movement"...I just don't see it happening. NOt with the piss-poor state of education over the last 30-40 yrs. Nobody's taught civics or any sort of citizen responsibility, combined with the outright hostility towards the West permeating education and the "dumbing-down" of the "feel good about myself and you owe me just for being here" generation.
The radicals of the 60's who wanted to see everything "Burn, baby, burn!" remember them? They now hold the levers of power and the unionized thugs in uniforms will place the boot on the neck with nary a second thought.

I've told my wife on several occasions that opur kids will grow up in a world very different from the one we did. First time I said it, she responded with technological accomplishments our parents didn't have.
She missed the point.
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Offline Sectionhand

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2011, 04:48:11 AM »
My grandparents were born at the end of the 19th century . If they walked into a school today , the first thing they'd notice would be the anarchy and chaos in the classrooms . Standards of deportment and civility are out the window and may never come back . Too , too bad .

Offline BigAlSouth

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2011, 05:53:21 PM »
The question is: Will the collapse of the EU drag the U.S. economy into a depression?

The Fed apparently has infused billions of freshly printed US currency into Europe in hopes of fending off a collapse. Greece, Spain, Portugal. Holding on for dear economic life. What happens when they can't repay their debt? A cascade of dominoes all the way to Main Street, U.S.A.?

I gots a bad feelin bout dis . . .
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Offline BMG

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2011, 07:02:58 PM »
That's about the size of it BigAl. It could be as bad as that - and not just on main street U.S.A but on main streets all over the planet. How bad it actually gets remains to be seen. But since all the economies around the globe are essentially tied together if something this big happens you can almost count on a domino effect that will touch most of the world's population.

Of course we can hope that it doesn't get that bad, but I tend to live by this saying: Hope for the best and plan for the worst. So I've been making plans just in case.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

Online John Florida

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Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2011, 07:11:04 PM »
The question is: Will the collapse of the EU drag the U.S. economy into a depression?

The Fed apparently has infused billions of freshly printed US currency into Europe in hopes of fending off a collapse. Greece, Spain, Portugal. Holding on for dear economic life. What happens when they can't repay their debt? A cascade of dominoes all the way to Main Street, U.S.A.?

I gots a bad feelin bout dis . . .

 This explains why the Chinese and Russions have no part in it. Were the geniuses that stuck our foot in it so we get dragged down into it.
All men are created equal"
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