Author Topic: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States  (Read 7672 times)

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Offline amperfectunion

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AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« on: April 18, 2012, 11:35:03 AM »
Hey folks, latest article is up, called "An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States"

"The big news today is that President Obama has just gone down in history as the first ever President to have increased the national debt by more than 5 trillion dollars in their time as President.  And, as another feather in his already well-plumed hat, he did it in less than four years."

http://amostperfectunion.com/ampu/archives/art45.htm

Enjoy!
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Offline Libertas

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2012, 11:42:36 AM »
Heh, our timing is impeccable.

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,5537.0.html

 ;D   ;)

I love your earth-moon dollar-distance thingy!  Stuff that blows peoples minds is good, shock does work, and is underutilized today!   ::thumbsup::

Our North American Dictator has been busy...demonically busy!

 ::gaah::
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Offline AmericanPatriot

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2012, 11:44:42 AM »
Aren't we bankrupt already?
The election is about managing the demise
Chapter 7 or Chapter 11

Online Pandora

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2012, 11:45:31 AM »
Aren't we bankrupt already?
The election is about managing the demise
Chapter 7 or Chapter 11

Exactly.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Libertas

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2012, 11:52:00 AM »
Chapter 11 is a sham, but most want to avoid Chapter 7 it appears...so...buy a few more years just for show...
Irrumabo!  GOP? - Nope. No more. They made their bed, now let them die in it.*
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Offline Sectionhand

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2012, 04:11:40 AM »
Aren't we bankrupt already?
The election is about managing the demise
Chapter 7 or Chapter 11

Yep ... Just haven't filed the paperwork yet .

Offline amperfectunion

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2012, 09:54:47 AM »
Aren't we bankrupt already?
The election is about managing the demise
Chapter 7 or Chapter 11

Yep ... Just haven't filed the paperwork yet .

I still think the next President can fix things.  So long as that next President isn't Obama.

They're going to have to be bold and transformative, but I believe the will of the American people is there to support bold moves like social security reform and a drastic cutting off the federal budget.
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Offline AmericanPatriot

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2012, 11:26:59 AM »
So, you're an optimist, amperfectunion?

Romney is not the guy for bold and transformative

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2012, 11:33:20 AM »
So, you're an optimist, amperfectunion?

Romney is not the guy for bold and transformative

I do tend to agree with you AP. But I also see him as someone who we can at least pressure from the grassroots to be accountable. He knows that if he wins this thing, it will be because people who didn't want to vote for him did so against their better judgment. He'll be motivated to at least listen.

And I've said before, IF Romney governs as President with even a strong hint of the agenda he's running on, he'll be more conservative than Reagan. That's a HUGE "if".
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Libertas

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2012, 11:35:21 AM »
If "if's" and "but's" were candy and nuts, everyday would be Christmas!

(I always loved that one!) ;D
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Offline amperfectunion

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2012, 11:37:13 AM »
So, you're an optimist, amperfectunion?

Romney is not the guy for bold and transformative

If his private conversation as recounted by Limbaugh is to be believed, I disagree.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Romney guy at all, but I think it's possible we're underestimating him.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2012, 11:37:33 AM »
They're going to have to be bold and transformative, but I believe the will of the American people is there to support bold moves like social security reform and a drastic cutting off the federal budget.

Can I move to your planet? On my planet, there is no political will to do the required cuts or at least there wasn't as of January - any more than there was support for austerity in Greece.   And really there is no call for such cuts - after all, unlike Greece, we own a printing press and know how to use it.

It must be nice to live in the bizarro universe though. Here in mine we are all bracing for impact.





Offline amperfectunion

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2012, 11:41:23 AM »
They're going to have to be bold and transformative, but I believe the will of the American people is there to support bold moves like social security reform and a drastic cutting off the federal budget.

Can I move to your planet? On my planet, there is no political will to do the required cuts or at least there wasn't as of January - any more than there was support for austerity in Greece.   And really there is no call for such cuts - after all, unlike Greece, we own a printing press and know how to use it.

It must be nice to live in the bizarro universe though. Here in mine we are all bracing for impact.


We'll see.  A true leader is someone that can inspire people to see things their way, not someone who looks at a poll and just does what other people think he should do.  Maybe that's Romney and maybe it isn't, but giving up never trying never changed anything.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2012, 12:03:12 PM »
Kralizec is coming, the only argument is over time frame.

I'd loved to be proved wrong, would be pleased to be wrong...

But I already agreed to give crony Republicanism a chance, doesn't cause me much pain, so...
Irrumabo!  GOP? - Nope. No more. They made their bed, now let them die in it.*
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2012, 12:19:23 PM »
We'll see.  A true leader is someone that can inspire people to see things their way, not someone who looks at a poll and just does what other people think he should do.  Maybe that's Romney and maybe it isn't, but giving up never trying never changed anything.

Agreed. Just saying that the idea  there is a will to support those moves now is just so far out of my experience, I can only figure one of us is living under significantly different conditions than the other.  I can't even convince my very conservative stepfather his benefits can't be paid, and that the system should be cut.  There is simply a  huge gap to be overcome - when only 40% of your own party agree with you that there should be cuts ( we haven't even talked about the size!) , then there is a long way to go.  

Public opinion can be changed,  but it certainly doesn't support the cuts now. Given that Romney so far has only inspired me to hate em enough that I am still undecided as to how to vote, and might even consider the devil I know to be a better choice, I am not holding my breath on his ability to persuade the most selfish generation of boomers to give up their free candy, or even to admit it might be a good idea. Perhaps as things get worse such a publicwill might develop, but  that just means the problem has become more intractable in the meantime.  And in reality, I am expecting to see the public will  that will  expressed  to be more along the lines we are seeing in Greece.

If you run the numbers there is just no possible way the required amount of cuts will be accepted, and even if they were, we are out of time. We have passed the debt event horizon, and we simply can't escape from its clutches now, even with brand new Di-lithium crystals, Scotty in Engineering and Kirk at the helm. And we don't have them. We have Wesley Crusher and Diana Troi, and they are both  in a shuttle craft debating the finer points of pocket lint.
 

Offline amperfectunion

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2012, 12:31:01 PM »
We'll see.  A true leader is someone that can inspire people to see things their way, not someone who looks at a poll and just does what other people think he should do.  Maybe that's Romney and maybe it isn't, but giving up never trying never changed anything.

Agreed. Just saying that the idea  there is a will to support those moves now is just so far out of my experience, I can only figure one of us is living under significantly different conditions than the other.  I can't even convince my very conservative stepfather his benefits can't be paid, and that the system should be cut.  There is simply a  huge gap to be overcome - when only 40% of your own party agree with you that there should be cuts ( we haven't even talked about the size!) , then there is a long way to go.  

Public opinion can be changed,  but it certainly doesn't support the cuts now. Given that Romney so far has only inspired me to hate em enough that I am still undecided as to how to vote, and might even consider the devil I know to be a better choice, I am not holding my breath on his ability to persuade the most selfish generation of boomers to give up their free candy, or even to admit it might be a good idea. Perhaps as things get worse such a publicwill might develop, but  that just means the problem has become more intractable in the meantime.  And in reality, I am expecting to see the public will  that will  expressed  to be more along the lines we are seeing in Greece.

If you run the numbers there is just no possible way the required amount of cuts will be accepted, and even if they were, we are out of time. We have passed the debt event horizon, and we simply can't escape from its clutches now, even with brand new Di-lithium crystals, Scotty in Engineering and Kirk at the helm. And we don't have them. We have Wesley Crusher and Diana Troi, and they are both  in a shuttle craft debating the finer points of pocket lint.
 

I hear ya.  People are all for cuts until it hits the entitlement THEY get, and then they don't want cuts anymore.

But...a true leader can overcome that.  I don't know if that's Romney or not, but if we are to believe what Limbaugh said about a private conversation he had with Romney, I think we can expect Romney to be aggressive, which is what we need.  I certainly hope that is the case. 

The cuts are going to have to be drastic and immediate.  None of this 1 trillion over 10 years nonsense that gets wiped out by baseline budget increases.  How about 1 trillion THIS year with no baseline increase for next year?  That's what we need.
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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2012, 12:51:48 PM »
Many of these seniors are living on a finely balanced budget -- I know mine are -- and their small investment income has been all but wiped out, so I understand their fear.  (I also understand there are ones with no financial worries - not applicable for my point).

I will do for my parents in any case; some won't do for theirs.

This is exactly why Obamacare must be ripped out, branch and root, before too many people come to government-mandated dependency.  And why, going forward, perhaps during a rebuild, no government ANYWHERE may be permitted to "provide" ANYTHING that even looks like a "safety net".  This is not charitable; it's a morally wrong two-fer, stealing from some to engender dependency in others, and no matter how good the original intentions are, there is always mission-creep.

Violating people's rights, and the Constitution, "just a little" is like the concept of being "just a little bit pregnant".
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2012, 12:52:34 PM »
The cuts are going to have to be drastic and immediate.  None of this 1 trillion over 10 years nonsense that gets wiped out by baseline budget increases.  How about 1 trillion THIS year with no baseline increase for next year?  That's what we need.

Actually anything short of balancing the budget isn't enough.  A trillion this year and holding spending constant, still leaves a good Bush sized deficit. It will put the collapse off. It will not, however, solve anything. The baseline won't affect the mandatory SS and Medicare/Medicaid spending, (and perhaps Obamacare) and the demographics are such that those will force bigger deficits each and every year even if the official discretionary budget has 0 growth.  I did these numbers with CO a while back in the Economics section.  If I get a chance maybe I will revise my charts with new deficit info and see how bad it is now , but  the last time I did this with really rosy GDP growth numbers, and a balanced budget, and maintaining  current stupidly low interest rates on the debt,  it was still 2025 before the deficit would start being reduced, and frankly I don't think the markets are going to let interest remain low because of the inflation already introduced.  Its a joo-joo-flop situation.  The entitlements are the problem. They  must be cut, and I don't think even Ronald Reagan could convince these people that it was required.

Offline amperfectunion

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2012, 12:53:20 PM »
Many of these seniors are living on a finely balanced budget -- I know mine are -- and their small investment income has been all but wiped out, so I understand their fear.  (I also understand there are ones with no financial worries - not applicable for my point).

I will do for my parents in any case; some won't do for theirs.

This is exactly why Obamacare must be ripped out, branch and root, before too many people come to government-mandated dependency.  And why, going forward, perhaps during a rebuild, no government ANYWHERE may be permitted to "provide" ANYTHING that even looks like a "safety net".  This is not charitable; it's a morally wrong two-fer, stealing from some to engender dependency in others, and no matter how good the original intentions are, there is always mission-creep.

Violating people's rights, and the Constitution, "just a little" is like the concept of being "just a little bit pregnant".

Exactly right.

Even though not strictly "conservative," I don't believe we can, or should, take social security away from people.  Right wrong or indifferent, the government made a promise, and should keep it.

That said...the government should immediately STOP making promises, and then just let the existing ones expire.  Then, problem solved.
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Offline amperfectunion

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2012, 12:54:25 PM »
The cuts are going to have to be drastic and immediate.  None of this 1 trillion over 10 years nonsense that gets wiped out by baseline budget increases.  How about 1 trillion THIS year with no baseline increase for next year?  That's what we need.

Actually anything short of balancing the budget isn't enough.

I honestly don't think that can be done in one year.  People and businesses do need time to adjust.

I think it can be done in four, however.
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