Author Topic: Honest Business  (Read 915 times)

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Online Weisshaupt

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Honest Business
« on: August 31, 2013, 11:03:59 AM »
Quote
RKDS:

Is it possible for a businessman to be honest just once in their life?

Suppose I have a product that I think is worth $20.  It takes $1 in resources to build and I want to make $15 profit.  Therefore, I can only afford to pay somebody $4 to assemble it.  But that's not really true, is it?  I can actually afford to pay $19.  I just wouldn't make any profit if I did.

Now, what if minimum wage went up to $10?  Mathematics says I can still afford to pay that because it's less than $19.  Businessman logic says I should cry like a girl and close up shop or lobby mommy government for a handout (because, you know, the law or the market is irrelevant to my entitlement).

It's astounding that we as a country can sh*t all over people for staying on unemployment because wages aren't high enough and then turn around and justify a businessman doing the same thing because profit percentages aren't high enough, especially if we consider that an employee is really just a businessman selling his own labor versus somebody else's.  If the former has an entitlement mentality, then God damn it so does the latter.

Quote
Weisshaupt:

Because someone can "afford" to pay (in your opinion)  gives you  the right to point a (govt) gun at his head an make him do so  against his will?

If so, how are you different from any other thief?  An "Honest" man know he cannot take what is not freely given.

The businessman  is offering to let you  you leverage his risk, his  investment, his capitial, his ideas and his risk to make a wage  , and you shove a gun in his face.

Its not entitlement.   When your arbitrary  $10 increase reduces a different business' margins to 0..and thus the businessman's wage to 0 why should he keep going? If I reduced the minimum wage to $3  and that is all you were offered, would you keep working that job? Why should he nort be free to say the same thing and quit? Because he OWES you? For what? You call him entitled, but you seem to be the one entitling yourself to his labor and to the use of his wealth.

 You complain of the wage he offers you to take or not as you desire,  and yet , you complain his wage is too high and propose to lower it by force.  To nothing  if need be. And after you force this man to work FOR YOU at gun point  for free, letting you leverage his property and risk, you have the temerity  to call him "greedy".  When the next downturn comes and the business fails  because it has NO MONEY with which to weather the storm, are you going to help this man pay the loans he took out to start the business?  Will you file bankruptcy alongside him?  Will you work to replace the retirement savings he risked in starting the business? Or do you care so little for your fellow man that you think he deserves it. Are you so envious of others that have more  - even when they have accrued what they have without coercion by honest means, that you feel justified in clubbing them down with malice and no mercy? When the business does well, will you offer your money up to help him start an new location ( and help your felow man by providing new jobs) or will you demand even more of his profits for yourself, even though your contribution remains the same. 

If Your labor (or idea)  is worth more than offered- take it elsewhere and find a way to get them. Take on your own risk with a loan. Find your own "evil rich" investors.  Try to provide  jobs for others yourself and show us how you are willing to share "equally with them" - when they share none of your risk. None of your ambition or savvy, or interest. But do all of it without calling to mommy or daddy that others aren't being Fair, hoping to get the guns pointed at them. A Nation isn't a family and the Businessman isn't your brother. You are no longer in Kindergarten. "in the Sweat of thy face shall thou eat bread" is not a plot invented by businessmen.  No one owes you anything. A Businessman is an individual that not only figured a way he could eat (and if rich, was probably assured of that)   but a way to provide others the same opportunity, in a voluntary and mutual agreement, and you call them greedy and entitled for providing such an opportunity.

It is you who is threatening the use of force and coercion against another human being. There is no such thing as a free lunch, you ungrateful feral vermin. You Take more and the other man less - only when you do it its not by mutual consent, but by brute force of arms. You claim  entitle yourself to the labor of another  that he would not willingly part with, and that is slavery.  When was the last time a poor man gave you a job? When was the last time you provided one for someone else?  If businessmen were smart they would automate everything and leave no opportunity for monkeys like you, with an inflated sense of self-worth,  to complain.  You are like the other animals in the Little Red hen, demanding a share of the result, without doing your share of the work and assuming your share of the planning, worry and risk.  You would kill Ivan's goat in your envy.  John Galt is real, and the more you take at gun point, the fewer jobs there will be - not because the businessman is "on strike" - he simply looks at the situation ans says'"Its not worth it to me " - just as that $3/hr job probably isn't worth it to you.  He stops risking what HE has saved for your benefit.  The very rich stop risking at all and just move to some Tropical Island somewhere and liive on their saved wealth - wealth that could have been leveraged  to provide you a job.  But these 99% -  ungrateful entitlement minded individuals - thinking they are owed more value than what they produce, demanding that others provide what they want while they provide little or nothing , using the govt as a weapon to get their way,  seem to not have any appreciation for the hands that feed them.  Bite the hand and its withdrawn, not for some noble reason, but because it hurts. And it will ultimately hurt you  far more than it hurts them.  Enjoy Starving. For without them, the govt can't afford to feed you either.

Preserved here mostly because I suspect I will want to copy and paste at least some of that again.
 
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 11:14:30 AM by Weisshaupt »

Offline BigAlSouth

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Re: Honest Business
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2013, 06:35:14 AM »
There are several problems with most of socialism because that doctrine almost always is in conflict with basic human nature: Face it, one aspect of human nature to want to do the least and get the most money in return. In socialism, you are mostly guaranteed payment for your work, regardless of whether you are faster, better, smarter than the average members in the collective. Therefore, the lazy, unskilled and inexperienced workers gravitate to socialism because they will get the most for the least effort.

Capitalism recognizes another aspect of human nature: If a person is adequately rewarded for his effort, and the reward is great enough for the risk, the result is a greater effort from the worker.

The question is which type of economic model pushes civilization forward, faster: Socialism or Capitalism? I think we all know the answer. Compare and contrast East Germany with West Germany.
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Offline Predator Don

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Re: Honest Business
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2013, 03:41:15 PM »
Quote
RKDS:

Is it possible for a businessman to be honest just once in their life?

Suppose I have a product that I think is worth $20.  It takes $1 in resources to build and I want to make $15 profit.  Therefore, I can only afford to pay somebody $4 to assemble it.  But that's not really true, is it?  I can actually afford to pay $19.  I just wouldn't make any profit if I did.

Now, what if minimum wage went up to $10?  Mathematics says I can still afford to pay that because it's less than $19.  Businessman logic says I should cry like a girl and close up shop or lobby mommy government for a handout (because, you know, the law or the market is irrelevant to my entitlement).

It's astounding that we as a country can sh*t all over people for staying on unemployment because wages aren't high enough and then turn around and justify a businessman doing the same thing because profit percentages aren't high enough, especially if we consider that an employee is really just a businessman selling his own labor versus somebody else's.  If the former has an entitlement mentality, then God damn it so does the latter.

Quote
Weisshaupt:

Because someone can "afford" to pay (in your opinion)  gives you  the right to point a (govt) gun at his head an make him do so  against his will?

If so, how are you different from any other thief?  An "Honest" man know he cannot take what is not freely given.

The businessman  is offering to let you  you leverage his risk, his  investment, his capitial, his ideas and his risk to make a wage  , and you shove a gun in his face.

Its not entitlement.   When your arbitrary  $10 increase reduces a different business' margins to 0..and thus the businessman's wage to 0 why should he keep going? If I reduced the minimum wage to $3  and that is all you were offered, would you keep working that job? Why should he nort be free to say the same thing and quit? Because he OWES you? For what? You call him entitled, but you seem to be the one entitling yourself to his labor and to the use of his wealth.

 You complain of the wage he offers you to take or not as you desire,  and yet , you complain his wage is too high and propose to lower it by force.  To nothing  if need be. And after you force this man to work FOR YOU at gun point  for free, letting you leverage his property and risk, you have the temerity  to call him "greedy".  When the next downturn comes and the business fails  because it has NO MONEY with which to weather the storm, are you going to help this man pay the loans he took out to start the business?  Will you file bankruptcy alongside him?  Will you work to replace the retirement savings he risked in starting the business? Or do you care so little for your fellow man that you think he deserves it. Are you so envious of others that have more  - even when they have accrued what they have without coercion by honest means, that you feel justified in clubbing them down with malice and no mercy? When the business does well, will you offer your money up to help him start an new location ( and help your felow man by providing new jobs) or will you demand even more of his profits for yourself, even though your contribution remains the same. 

If Your labor (or idea)  is worth more than offered- take it elsewhere and find a way to get them. Take on your own risk with a loan. Find your own "evil rich" investors.  Try to provide  jobs for others yourself and show us how you are willing to share "equally with them" - when they share none of your risk. None of your ambition or savvy, or interest. But do all of it without calling to mommy or daddy that others aren't being Fair, hoping to get the guns pointed at them. A Nation isn't a family and the Businessman isn't your brother. You are no longer in Kindergarten. "in the Sweat of thy face shall thou eat bread" is not a plot invented by businessmen.  No one owes you anything. A Businessman is an individual that not only figured a way he could eat (and if rich, was probably assured of that)   but a way to provide others the same opportunity, in a voluntary and mutual agreement, and you call them greedy and entitled for providing such an opportunity.

It is you who is threatening the use of force and coercion against another human being. There is no such thing as a free lunch, you ungrateful feral vermin. You Take more and the other man less - only when you do it its not by mutual consent, but by brute force of arms. You claim  entitle yourself to the labor of another  that he would not willingly part with, and that is slavery.  When was the last time a poor man gave you a job? When was the last time you provided one for someone else?  If businessmen were smart they would automate everything and leave no opportunity for monkeys like you, with an inflated sense of self-worth,  to complain.  You are like the other animals in the Little Red hen, demanding a share of the result, without doing your share of the work and assuming your share of the planning, worry and risk.  You would kill Ivan's goat in your envy.  John Galt is real, and the more you take at gun point, the fewer jobs there will be - not because the businessman is "on strike" - he simply looks at the situation ans says'"Its not worth it to me " - just as that $3/hr job probably isn't worth it to you.  He stops risking what HE has saved for your benefit.  The very rich stop risking at all and just move to some Tropical Island somewhere and liive on their saved wealth - wealth that could have been leveraged  to provide you a job.  But these 99% -  ungrateful entitlement minded individuals - thinking they are owed more value than what they produce, demanding that others provide what they want while they provide little or nothing , using the govt as a weapon to get their way,  seem to not have any appreciation for the hands that feed them.  Bite the hand and its withdrawn, not for some noble reason, but because it hurts. And it will ultimately hurt you  far more than it hurts them.  Enjoy Starving. For without them, the govt can't afford to feed you either.

Preserved here mostly because I suspect I will want to copy and paste at least some of that again.




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Offline Libertas

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Re: Honest Business
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2013, 05:00:23 PM »
Some people would be best served reading the lessons of history than in repeating the same mistakes over and over again.  Just because somebody thinks they have a better set of tactics to employ or flowery phases to use to make theft and force more palatable it is still theft and force.  Nobody, except the insane, like to be robbed and made to do something against their wishes and beliefs.

Oh well, some lessons are like impure metal, the tempering fire will sere the truth since no other means seem to suffice.
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