Author Topic: BITCOIN  (Read 7164 times)

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Offline Libertas

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BITCOIN
« on: October 29, 2013, 07:02:40 AM »
I have to admit I have conflicting thoughts on the whole BITCOIN phenomena, but I have to say after this quote by O'Fukcface I think I just swung in favor of it!

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Online IronDioPriest

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2013, 07:29:33 AM »
I've heard of it, but I don't get how it works.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2013, 07:55:24 AM »
It's basically an alternative currency thriving in cyberspace...here is their webpage - http://bitcoin.org/en/

You can install a wallet on your computer or mobile device and basically conduct transations via network.

This chart lays it out - http://bitcoin.org/en/how-it-works

If more and more people and businesses start using them to conduct transactions it could conceivably replace fiat currencies one day.

Their FAQ page is good, check out the section "How does one acquire bitcoins?"...you basically tie your bank account like with PayPal.

http://bitcoin.org/en/faq#how-does-one-acquire-bitcoins
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Online ToddF

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2013, 08:02:02 AM »
It itself is a fiat currency, purchase with another fiat currency.

I don't even get the purpose, other than pure speculation and gambling.

Online Weisshaupt

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2013, 08:49:23 AM »
It itself is a fiat currency, purchase with another fiat currency.

I don't even get the purpose, other than pure speculation and gambling.

This is basically a "startup" operation, and bit-coins are basically  shares  in this venture, so speculation and gambling occurs,  just as it does on FOREX and every other currency exchange in the world.    You own dollars, and every day you hold them you are also engaging in such speculation and trading as the dollar index moves around.

The purpose is the same one as the dollar, the Euro, the Yuan etc... its to provide a symbol or token for a given amount of  for  which may be exchanged in the future for a largely similar amount  of value.  It is a form of money.

How does it differ from other fiat currency

1) Its distributed.  Anyone, anywhere may run a Bit-Coin server, maintain accounts, and charge to assist with transactions.  Likewise ANYONE, ANYWHERE in the world, can compete to "mine" more of the currency by solving a mathematical problem. Providing the algos are really secure ( and yes they have made this one hard to crack)  the distributed nature basically prevents "cheating" - one entity cannot just start "making more"  - unlike the Fed who can just print money . This is more like the gold standard where there is only so much gold above ground and only so much coming out of the ground in a given period. Its just the ,mining done is virtual.

2) Its secure.  When they shut down Silk road,  the fed's Siezed the bit coin assets. Only, you see, they didn't. (And I believe still haven't, but someone may correct me)  In order to get to bitcoin assets you have to have the encrypted key.  If you don't have it , you can't remove them, transfer them, or exchange them.  Because of the decentralized nature of Bitcoin,  there is no one to threaten or pressure into "handing over the keys"  like they would do to your local bank.  They may eventually find a way around that (NSA snooping, quantum computing etc)  but it will still be a lot more work for them to get at your funds than if you keep them in a bank where Obamacare allows them legal access to your accounts.  (Which s again in line with the theory that the Obama administration is TRYING to kill the dollar by making it in every American's best interest to removing their funds, buy a gun and defend it themselves. ) 

If Bitcoin were setup and run by individual the States, it could easily  replace the Fed and probably work very, very well.  The only thing really lacking is credibility and faith, the sort that a real, legitimate govt, could give it.   One of the first, best  decisions  to turn over to Asimov's robots  would be the fiat,  because the machines can  make currency decisions without bias and without manipulation.

Offline richb

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2013, 05:41:58 PM »
The future may be a government-less currency or better yet currencies.    Most governments have little credibility anyway,  so why would it need the "legitimacy" of one?   

Most governments are not stable,  and many are down right corrupt.  The US,  which largely put ours in the hands of a shadowy, corrupt,  semi "private" organization (the Fed).    Has somehow been the world currency for nearly a hundred years, not because the Fed made it the best, but because of the wealth, rule of law and huge size of our nation making it so in spite of the problems of the Fed.   Now that the dollars legitimacy is waning due to Feds 100 years of monkeying,  it stays for the time being because every other currency is EVEN worse.   The Euro won't,  the Yuan won't,   both are currencies of societies with governments that are morally bankrupt  (as well as financial).

The Euro has nations that have so much debt they will never repay, forcing wealthier nations to redraw at some point (Germany) ,  and the Yuan is manipulated even more then the dollar. 

As long as no organization can hijack or "centralize" it,  it would earn its legitimacy by being fair handed, simple and easy to access but yet secure.   

Its Bitcoin it?  Who knows?  I know governments will go out of their way to try to "regulate" it.

Offline Libertas

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2013, 07:37:25 AM »
Depends how dark we go, if the collapse renders electricity and networks to uber luxury status only, bitcoin will literally be left in the dark.  Surviving people will resort to barter economies, so educate yourself on valuable barter items.  Once some form of normalcy returns and people begin to consolidate activity again, I would suspect a reversion to what has worked (if left unmolested and not debased) is precious metals as the monetary base, so having some PMs for the long-term makes sense, and there may be some barter opportunity to acquire other goods with silver and perhaps gold.
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Offline warpmine

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2013, 11:14:23 AM »
Depends how dark we go, if the collapse renders electricity and networks to uber luxury status only, bitcoin will literally be left in the dark.  Surviving people will resort to barter economies, so educate yourself on valuable barter items.  Once some form of normalcy returns and people begin to consolidate activity again, I would suspect a reversion to what has worked (if left unmolested and not debased) is precious metals as the monetary base, so having some PMs for the long-term makes sense, and there may be some barter opportunity to acquire other goods with silver and perhaps gold.
Within a few years of bartering, people will revert back to trading with precious metals, silver, gold, platinum etc....It will be the only way to get paid for labor so that you can spend it elsewhere. Question is, after all the BS people are going through today will they ever allow a fiat currency or let any govt fukc with it. Certain laws need to be passed to stop this from ever happening again. Even a proposal should be met with incarceration after this debacle.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2013, 11:31:59 AM »
Depends how dark we go, if the collapse renders electricity and networks to uber luxury status only, bitcoin will literally be left in the dark.  Surviving people will resort to barter economies, so educate yourself on valuable barter items.  Once some form of normalcy returns and people begin to consolidate activity again, I would suspect a reversion to what has worked (if left unmolested and not debased) is precious metals as the monetary base, so having some PMs for the long-term makes sense, and there may be some barter opportunity to acquire other goods with silver and perhaps gold.
Within a few years of bartering, people will revert back to trading with precious metals, silver, gold, platinum etc....It will be the only way to get paid for labor so that you can spend it elsewhere. Question is, after all the BS people are going through today will they ever allow a fiat currency or let any govt fukc with it. Certain laws need to be passed to stop this from ever happening again. Even a proposal should be met with incarceration after this debacle.

I think anybody trying to float fiat again or demand goods or services on credit will be hung/shot/knifed/immolated/dismembered/piked/beaten to death on the spot.
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Offline oldcoastie6468

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2013, 01:23:06 PM »
I'm not interest in this new scam.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2013, 07:25:43 AM »
I wouldn't say it is a scam, merely filling certain needs, carving out its own niche.

This post is good - http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-06/why-bitcoin-surging

The main point being, this should be thought of as a means of conducting transactions, it behaves like money but is not money, as long as you understand that and act accordingly it may suit a particular need.

I find it ironic that the Feds have a stake in bitcoin now thanks to their take-down of Silk Road 1.0...Silk road 2.0 is now up and running!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-06/silk-road-20-has-been-born-new-website-mocks-feds

Mocking the Fedcoats!  Gotta love it!   ;D
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Offline Libertas

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2013, 07:47:04 AM »
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-11/meet-fiatleakcom-%E2%80%93-real-time-map-bitcoin-transactions-country

Can't get it to work for me, must be my work filter...will try at home later...
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Offline oldcoastie6468

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2013, 11:39:39 AM »
I trust it NOT!
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Offline Libertas

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2013, 12:14:17 PM »
I trust it NOT!

Matress-stuffer!  Got a matress-stuffer here!   ;D
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Online Weisshaupt

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2013, 12:40:35 PM »
I trust it NOT!

At this point, its probably more trust worthy than the dollars in your wallet.
As Greece had its bank  bail-in a lot of people were using Bitcoin to get their money out of the country and avoiding capital controls to do it.
Bit coin will probably go up predictably during such events, and we are sure to see many more such events.

No, I don't own any bitcoin. But yes, having a smallish holding as a speculative position along with your hard stuff, probalby won't go amiss. The big risk is that the govts that be  are  going to be gunning for them...

Offline AlanS

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2013, 02:54:19 PM »
Only question I have: Can I cash my bitcoins for gold?
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Online Weisshaupt

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2013, 03:33:54 PM »
Only question I have: Can I cash my bitcoins for gold?

Yes, you can  and if the dollar collapses you might still be able to.

the price of bitcoin in gold over time

Bitcoin is another currency. Thats all.  You have faith in it or you don't. There are people investing in Chinese Yuan - not because they trust the chinese govt, but because that expect that vehicle to do better than the dollar over time. Bitcoin has proven itself as pretty much tamper proof and therefore is a favorite of criminals who do not wish their purchases tracked.  Since the govt is making us all criminals, it may behoove us to keep some value in this form. Or you could loose it all tomorrow. The same is true of your bank account. A Bank Holiday and a Bail in and its gone.

And it's gone (original)
 

Offline Libertas

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2013, 07:17:15 AM »
Speaking of gone...that link for bitcoin gold says all products are gone!  How much of that is demand-driven and how much is that supply constraint?  I can only tell from the link that they have customer service offices in US, AUS & CAN, should be decent supply availability...has to be a lot of bitcoiner demand for gold!

And speaking of gold, Chi-Com's have another gold vault to fill in Shanghai!

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?topic=913.msg113756#msg113756
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Offline Libertas

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2013, 12:19:05 PM »
Senate hearing on Bitcoin today...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-18/bitcoin-soars-above-600-rises-20-one-day-ahead-senate-hearing

And, umm...

"The Department of Justice and Securities and Exchange Commission are telling a U.S. Senate committee that Bitcoins are legitimate financial instruments, boosting prospects for wider acceptance of the virtual currency."

Something doesn't smell right...if the Fedcoats are saying this...I'm not liking what it implies...sounds almost like NSA already has it tapped and wants people to have a false sense of security...

Might explain why nobody has cashed in yet on these offers...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-18/dark-web-exposes-75000-bitcoin-based-bounty-bernankes-assassination

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Offline Libertas

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2013, 07:09:07 AM »
Schiff confirmation of what's been said already...and that gold and other PMs will always be the safest store of value of last resort.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-21/peter-schiff-gold-vs-bitcoin
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