Psalm 109:6-13
New King James Version (NKJV)
6 Set a wicked man over him,
And let an accuser[a] stand at his right hand.
7 When he is judged, let him be found guilty,
And let his prayer become sin.
8 Let his days be few,
And let another take his office.
9 Let his children be fatherless,
And his wife a widow.
10 Let his children continually be vagabonds, and beg;
Let them seek their bread also from their desolate places.
11 Let the creditor seize all that he has,
And let strangers plunder his labor.
12 Let there be none to extend mercy to him,
Nor let there be any to favor his fatherless children.
13 Let his posterity be cut off,
And in the generation following let their name be blotted out.
Some of the things posted here disturb me. I....but, I also find us slipping into places in which I take no pride. The power of many revolutionaries has come from the moral high ground, from the appeal to the center of people who did not naturally do what is right, but could be activated...could be restored.....and too often we forget that moral power.
I can't read CHF's appeal and not wish to do a better job holding my thoughts and words up to the light of Christ in my heart.
...Christ expects you to fight and hate evil.
Then said He unto them: But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a scrip: and he that hath not, let him sell his coat and buy a sword.
Its Time to buy the Swords people. Jesus didn't intend that we lay down our lives before evil as an offering, no matter how many leftist inspired sermons you may have heard to the contrary...
Talking with these people isn't going to make them stop. Going to meetings meetings, attending rallies and assembling with peers to speak before legislators will not work, anymore than going before Stalin, Pol Pot or Mao to explain liberty would work to stay their hands.
But I hear CHF's appeal, and it makes me want to personally do a better job checking my emotions with the love of Christ. Whether I can succeed or not... Jesus help me.
Nothing about recognizing the enemy, his evil deeds, or the monumental task before us requires me to be constantly expressing bitter hatred. The former is a need. The latter is a choice.
I'm speaking only of the burden of darkness in my own heart, and the disservice I do to my own conscience by repeatedly descending into expressing thoughts of manifest hatred. Sometimes it feels like I forget to come up for air. But sometimes your feelings are correct, because they are leaving us little or no air to breathe.
I appreciate the addition to our membership of posters like oldcoastie, who reminds me that even in dark times, a cartoon or clever saying is worthy of a glance and a comment. Thank you, but I never considered that I was an important member of this forum. To my way of thinking, that would be conceited and self-serving. I just post things - good and bad - that I think people will express an interest in or will generate a smile. Each morning, I say to myself, "If I can't make someone smile or laugh today, then there's no reason to even get up." I've felt that way for as long as I can remember, and it still serves me well today.
I appreciate ChristianHusbandFather for simply asking the question. Whether anyone chooses to look within as a result is their own business. Whether they want to share what they see when they look is also their own business.
I also appreciate you Weisshaupt. Your clarity of purpose keeps the laser-pointer on the target. I think everyone here is on target, and although I may sometimes not share the same target I always learn something.
I can't read CHF's appeal and not wish to do a better job holding my thoughts and words up to the light of Christ in my heart.
There is so much darkness in my thoughts, and thus my words of late. I don't like it, but it is there, and it comes to the fore.
I have to be honest and say that what Pablo describes is what I truly wish. The evils to which we are forced to bear witness evoke a hatred in me that I've never known. I know I'm worse off for it, and I don't want it to rule my heart. And yet it feels righteous; justified, and therefore, hard to keep at bay. It comes out.
I sure don't want to make anyone feel unwelcome here because of an overall timbre of seething hatred. I want people to be free to express what they're feeling, me included.
But I hear CHF's appeal, and it makes me want to personally do a better job checking my emotions with the love of Christ. Whether I can succeed or not... Jesus help me.
I can't read CHF's appeal and not wish to do a better job holding my thoughts and words up to the light of Christ in my heart.
There is so much darkness in my thoughts, and thus my words of late. I don't like it, but it is there, and it comes to the fore.
I have to be honest and say that what Pablo describes is what I truly wish. The evils to which we are forced to bear witness evoke a hatred in me that I've never known. I know I'm worse off for it, and I don't want it to rule my heart. And yet it feels righteous; justified, and therefore, hard to keep at bay. It comes out.
I sure don't want to make anyone feel unwelcome here because of an overall timbre of seething hatred. I want people to be free to express what they're feeling, me included.
But I hear CHF's appeal, and it makes me want to personally do a better job checking my emotions with the love of Christ. Whether I can succeed or not... Jesus help me.
I agree with your sentiment. I also understand CHF's concern in not wanting to see people corrode their souls. You just have to pray with sincerity that God show the righteous path. I am sometimes aghast at the thoughts that now dwell in me with regularity, sort of like in The Empire Strikes Back when Luke fought the apparition of Vader only to see himself behind the mask. But sticking with the Star Wars analogy, to your point:
There is so much darkness in my thoughts, and thus my words of late. I don't like it, but it is there, and it comes to the fore.
it's also true that Luke had to touch the Dark Side to vanquish Vader in their final duel. And that's rather how I look at the darkness. Your reptile brain is steeling you for times ahead. Wasn't it Orwell who said that people sleep peaceably in their beds only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf? Circumstances simply require it sometimes. It's only evil if you engage in it out of malice or sadistic pleasure. When it is forced upon you, your only choices are to fight back or submit.
I know some of my comments are probably among those referred to in this thread. I don't like the place we're being taken to as a civilization. I don't like the things it's made me think about. Just a few short years ago my only concerns for the future were things like a career and marriage and all that stuff. But there's one thing I find more repugnant than the thoughts that dwell, and that's the thought of just letting these scum complete their fundamental transformation. The "fundamental transformation" means people like us get shoveled into unmarked graves. They're not getting any freebies.
The Jews had become culturally accustomed to various pogroms and expulsions since the Middle Ages. I suspect they just thought it was another of those things, and that "resettlement in the east" really was the true intention. I don't know how things would have been different if they had known it was literally life and death.
We on the other hand do know what happens when a modern state centralizes so much power. How many examples do we need? I think genocide is just the inescapable consequence of the modern technostate centralizing more and more power. It doesn't even necessarily require conscious intent, it's just the trajectory that becomes established. The ideology and personal traits of the ruling class don't even matter. The sheer hulking gravity of the massive state makes it tyrannical without even trying.
That we do have an element of conscious intent only makes matters that much worse.
I believe the powers that be are counting on our compliance, yet gleefully looking forward to armed outrage. Evil. Pure evil is running this country.
Do the proper channels still exist?
I'm in a mood and it is not pretty.
Alright...enough restraint... ;)300 - Final Battle Scene - Death of Leonidas - Full HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMSgxo5ozD0#ws)
(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd27/gablabs/2013%20Blog%20Art/DieOnMyFeet_zps0c478964.jpg)
I believe the powers that be are counting on our compliance, yet gleefully looking forward to armed outrage. Evil. Pure evil is running this country.
Oh absolutely. I am not using hyperbole when I say this is the eternal battle playing out around us. It's Good vs. Evil. There is a diabolical intelligence guiding the Left. I think they are literally the pawns of Satan, even though they would of course scoff at the notion (as an aside, it's said the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing people he doesn't exist).
They are very adept at arranging the arcs of history, the trajectories, into Win-Win scenarios for themselves. I suppose that's fairly easy when you have absolutely no moral or ethical anchor: if your enemy weakens himself through adherence to his own code, you win. If your enemy fights back, you get to unleash the full power of the state on him. Another win.
And you know, we've not even scratched the surface of their evil yet.
QuoteDo the proper channels still exist?
No.QuoteI'm in a mood and it is not pretty.
Are we a party yet, then? A not-pretty party?
CHF wants to build a bunker and hide. You know, ride out the raid and such. We disagree.
You cannot hide.
Are "they" not coming for us all?
Then we come for them first.
I agree with your sentiment. I also understand CHF's concern in not wanting to see people corrode their souls. You just have to pray with sincerity that God show the righteous path. I am sometimes aghast at the thoughts that now dwell in me with regularity, sort of like in The Empire Strikes Back when Luke fought the apparition of Vader only to see himself behind the mask. But sticking with the Star Wars analogy, to your point:
Pslam 109.
Psalm 109
For the director of music. Of David. A psalm.
1 My God, whom I praise,
do not remain silent,
2 for people who are wicked and deceitful
have opened their mouths against me;
they have spoken against me with lying tongues.
3 With words of hatred they surround me;
they attack me without cause.
4 In return for my friendship they accuse me,
but I am a man of prayer.
5 They repay me evil for good,
and hatred for my friendship.
6 Appoint someone evil to oppose my enemy;
let an accuser stand at his right hand.
7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
and may his prayers condemn him.
8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.
9 May his children be fatherless
and his wife a widow.
10 May his children be wandering beggars;
may they be driven[a] from their ruined homes.
11 May a creditor seize all he has;
may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.
12 May no one extend kindness to him
or take pity on his fatherless children.
13 May his descendants be cut off,
their names blotted out from the next generation.
14 May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the Lord;
may the sin of his mother never be blotted out.
15 May their sins always remain before the Lord,
that he may blot out their name from the earth.
16 For he never thought of doing a kindness,
but hounded to death the poor
and the needy and the brokenhearted.
17 He loved to pronounce a curse—
may it come back on him.
He found no pleasure in blessing—
may it be far from him.
18 He wore cursing as his garment;
it entered into his body like water,
into his bones like oil.
19 May it be like a cloak wrapped about him,
like a belt tied forever around him.
20 May this be the Lord’s payment to my accusers,
to those who speak evil of me.
21 But you, Sovereign Lord,
help me for your name’s sake;
out of the goodness of your love, deliver me.
22 For I am poor and needy,
and my heart is wounded within me.
23 I fade away like an evening shadow;
I am shaken off like a locust.
24 My knees give way from fasting;
my body is thin and gaunt.
25 I am an object of scorn to my accusers;
when they see me, they shake their heads.
26 Help me, Lord my God;
save me according to your unfailing love.
27 Let them know that it is your hand,
that you, Lord, have done it.
28 While they curse, may you bless;
may those who attack me be put to shame,
but may your servant rejoice.
29 May my accusers be clothed with disgrace
and wrapped in shame as in a cloak.
30 With my mouth I will greatly extol the Lord;
in the great throng of worshipers I will praise him.
31 For he stands at the right hand of the needy,
to save their lives from those who would condemn them.
What if millions of people - instead of allowing their emotions and their tongues to have their way, would instead meditate on this Psalm and pray, petitioning God's intervention?
I'm just asking the question. I don't think anyone will find it offensive for me to say that often times, when we engage in the behavior that ChristianHusbandFather asked us to contemplate, we are allowing our emotions and our (typing) tongues to have their way with us. We embrace the righteousness of our hatred, and open the door for darkness to move through us, bringing whatever spiritual consequences may come with it.
What would God prefer? Again, I am just asking the question. Would he prefer me to lash out with a loose tongue? Or would he prefer me to turn to His word, and channel my anger into prayer, meditating upon how my righteous anger and the Psalmist's righteous anger are alike/different?
What will give me more moral clarity in the upcoming battles to which Weisshaupt refers? My own uncontrolled thoughts and tongue? Or God's word, telling me how to petition for His aid against evil enemies?
I'm chewing this feast.
What if millions of people - instead of allowing their emotions and their tongues to have their way, would instead meditate on this Psalm and pray, petitioning God's intervention?
I'm just asking the question. I don't think anyone will find it offensive for me to say that often times, when we engage in the behavior that ChristianHusbandFather asked us to contemplate, we are allowing our emotions and our (typing) tongues to have their way with us. We embrace the righteousness of our hatred, and open the door for darkness to move through us, bringing whatever spiritual consequences may come with it.
What would God prefer? Again, I am just asking the question. Would he prefer me to lash out with a loose tongue? Or would he prefer me to turn to His word, and channel my anger into prayer, meditating upon how my righteous anger and the Psalmist's righteous anger are alike/different?
What will give me more moral clarity in the upcoming battles to which Weisshaupt refers? My own uncontrolled thoughts and tongue? Or God's word, telling me how to petition for His aid against evil enemies?
I'm chewing this feast.
Excellent questions, IDP.
For the larger picture-- I don't believe we will be victorious by our own hand. I believe we need millions to drop to their knees and beg for forgiveness and help from God.
Individually-- we must be prepared to defend our families.
What will give me more moral clarity in the upcoming battles to which Weisshaupt refers? My own uncontrolled thoughts and tongue? Or God's word, telling me how to petition for His aid against evil enemies?
What will give me more moral clarity in the upcoming battles to which Weisshaupt refers? My own uncontrolled thoughts and tongue? Or God's word, telling me how to petition for His aid against evil enemies?
Which will give you more "moral clarity?" God's words, no question.
As I have already stated, fields in which you are hip deep in blood and carcasses and fighting for your life are not places for "moral clarity." If you take time to think about the moral implications of your actions, you will be dead...
“Your servant used to keep his father’s sheep, and when a lion or a bear came and took a lamb out of the flock, 35 I went out after it and struck it, and delivered the lamb from its mouth; and when it arose against me, I caught it by its beard, and struck and killed it. 36 Your servant has killed both lion and bear; and this uncircumcised Philistine will be like one of them, seeing he has defied the armies of the living God.” 37 Moreover David said, “The Lord, who delivered me from the paw of the lion and from the paw of the bear, He will deliver me from the hand of this Philistine.”
“You come to me with a sword, with a spear, and with a javelin. But I come to you in the name of the Lord of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied. 46 This day the Lord will deliver you into my hand, and I will strike you and take your head from you. And this day I will give the carcasses of the camp of the Philistines to the birds of the air and the wild beasts of the earth, that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel. 47 Then all this assembly shall know that the Lord does not save with sword and spear; for the battle is the Lord’s, and He will give you into our hands.”
Which is exactly why it seems to me that wisdom suggests having the moral implications worked out in advance - to have the knowledge within ones self of moral clarity, clarity of purpose, and as close to purity of heart as one can achieve - so that when the time comes, one can act with a clear conscience.
I for one am willing to burn for many Sins in Hell if I can restore Liberty to my Children and Humanity's best hope for prosperity.
Which is exactly why it seems to me that wisdom suggests having the moral implications worked out in advance - to have the knowledge within ones self of moral clarity, clarity of purpose, and as close to purity of heart as one can achieve - so that when the time comes, one can act with a clear conscience.
The moral implication is that you will be asked and forced to do immoral things to survive, protect yourself and God willing, win. Pure of heart or no. Morally Clear, or no. Anger and expression thereof may be the difference between rallying and unifying us, or dying solitarily in our homes . Our Anger expressed in the correct ways may make an enemy think twice, whereas a peaceful demeanor begs them to try us. I am not suggesting that our anger rule us, only that we should not discard it as useless nor silence ourselves. If the American Revolution was God's will and handiwork ( and I believe it was) then the Sons of Liberty were a large part of getting it started and moving, and those men used all of the tools available to them, including the righteous anger they felt, to convince others to support them, and to punish those who opposed them. The Founding Fathers would be done by now, yet we are not. They were Christian men as well, yet they would already be executing these traitors from lampposts, and we are not. I can only wonder what we are missing if it isn't righteous anger and too much emphasis on keeping our hearts and souls clean and too little willingness to soil them even if we firmly believe in our hearts that doing so will advance God's work. I for one am willing to burn for many Sins in Hell if I can restore Liberty to my Children and Humanity's best hope for prosperity.
We are working it all out; seeding the ground; testing our ideas amongst the like-minded. Fighting, if it is God's will, comes later. What we do between now and then matters, particularly to ourselves and our loved ones.
I'm not talking about sitting down on the battlefield to read Psalms. I'm talking about spiritual preparation for whatever may come.
Which is better? Our own emotionally driven, justifiable rants?
Or checking to see what God's word has to say about this EXACT situation?
At this moment in time, to me, God's word seems like the better choice; the more logical choice.
Good discussion.
I for one am willing to burn for many Sins in Hell if I can restore Liberty to my Children and Humanity's best hope for prosperity.
Understood. But it's not necessarily an "either/or" choice - you could both restore liberty AND, upon dying, achieve eternity in Heaven.
Not pushin', just sayin'! ;)
I for one am willing to burn for many Sins in Hell if I can restore Liberty to my Children and Humanity's best hope for prosperity.
Understood. But it's not necessarily an "either/or" choice - you could both restore liberty AND, upon dying, achieve eternity in Heaven.
Not pushin', just sayin'! ;)
I am hoping I make the right decisions so God forgives me what I have done. But I have no illusions that what I will likely be called to do will be immoral and repugnant to me. How did Washington know that slaughtering men in their beds would be the "right thing?" How do we know it was? Perhaps for that act alone he was condemned to Hell by God for breaking his commandment against killing. I won't be driven by anger in my decision making , but I suspect Anger is going to steel me to do the tasks that must be done.
"I’m working for the Lord, and even though the Lord’s pay isn’t very high, his retirement program is."
The sixth commandment as I read it, forbids us to commit murder. I suggest that killing enemies who are rabidly godless and destroyers of this great country He blessed is NOT murder - especially if killing the enemy is in self-defense or in the defense of others.Which is exactly why it seems to me that wisdom suggests having the moral implications worked out in advance - to have the knowledge within ones self of moral clarity, clarity of purpose, and as close to purity of heart as one can achieve - so that when the time comes, one can act with a clear conscience.
The moral implication is that you will be asked and forced to do immoral things to survive, protect yourself and God willing, win. Pure of heart or no. Morally Clear, or no. Anger and expression thereof may be the difference between rallying and unifying us, or dying solitarily in our homes . Our Anger expressed in the correct ways may make an enemy think twice, whereas a peaceful demeanor begs them to try us. I am not suggesting that our anger rule us, only that we should not discard it as useless nor silence ourselves. If the American Revolution was God's will and handiwork ( and I believe it was) then the Sons of Liberty were a large part of getting it started and moving, and those men used all of the tools available to them, including the righteous anger they felt, to convince others to support them, and to punish those who opposed them. The Founding Fathers would be done by now, yet we are not. They were Christian men as well, yet they would already be executing these traitors from lampposts, and we are not. I can only wonder what we are missing if it isn't righteous anger and too much emphasis on keeping our hearts and souls clean and too little willingness to soil them even if we firmly believe in our hearts that doing so will advance God's work. I for one am willing to burn for many Sins in Hell if I can restore Liberty to my Children and Humanity's best hope for prosperity.
I don't think there is anything immoral about killing evil. I don't think being mindful of my tongue, or focusing my anger on what God has to say about it instead of indulging my own whims, precludes demonstrating anger.
The Psalmist is quite clearly angry, no?
I would not suggest discarding anger, and like you, I would suggest that we not allow it to rule us.
So I think I speak accurately when I posit that what CHF was observing was that in his opinion, we are, at times, allowing anger to rule us.
We aren't being asked to spend eternity in hell as the cost of saving our nation. Such a nation would not be worth saving. If our goal is to restore the nation our founders intended to establish, we are on the side of the angels.
Good post, Kay!Thanks, Jeff!
Good post, Kay!Thanks, Jeff!
I never know if I'm being "Perfectly Clear". ::laughonfloor::