It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => General Board => Topic started by: charlesoakwood on May 21, 2011, 03:13:01 AM
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http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/16/marine-survives-two-tours-in-i (http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/16/marine-survives-two-tours-in-i)
Marine Survives Two Tours in Iraq, SWAT Kills Him
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Guerena, who hid with her four-year-old son when sheriff's deputies raided the home, fills in detail that has been slow to come from Pima County Sheriff Clarence W. Dupnik’s office:
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Court documents showing what was being sought and was found have not been made public. A computer check on Guerena revealed a couple of traffic tickets and no criminal history.
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Tucson KGUN’s Joel Waldman says the SWAT team prevented paramedics from going to work on Guerena for one hour and fourteen minutes.
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We have to wait til the very last paragraph to find this out...
The sheriff’s department maintains that Guerena was holding an AR-15 when the paramilitary force fired 71 bullets in his home, but other key parts of the government story have collapsed. While PCSD initially claimed Guerena fired the weapon he was alleged to have been holding, the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic inside a home containing a woman and a toddler:
[blockquote]A deputy's bullet struck the side of the doorway, causing chips of wood to fall on his shield. That prompted some members of the team to think the deputy had been shot, [PCSD spokesman Michael] O'Connor said.[/blockquote]
And an update...
Sheriffs: Slain Jose Guerena Linked to "Home-Invasion Crew" (http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/20/sheriffs-slain-jose-guerena-li)
Sounds like he may have been a pretty bad guy if the claims against him are true. Still, it sounds as if the raid was amateur-hour, and that once they screwed up, Dupnik's crew compounded the problem by withholding medical attention. Few things would make me happier than seeing that piece of scat take a fall for this. He deserves the very worst of what life has to offer for what he did in the wake of the St. Gabby shooting..
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Know what makes this state-sponsored murder a tragedy? It was clearly preventable.
Look, Dupnik's SWAT guys knew or should have known that Guerena was working. They knew or should have known that he had a wife and two children. They could have picked him up outside, executed a search warrant, and then methodically gone through the house. But no, they didn't.
Dupnik's SWAT team gets all hopped up on adrenaline, goes to a neighborhood where there is some drug activity, and tries to show it's power and its swagger by busting down some doors. So the Marine veteran was armed. Last time I read the constitution, he had that right. According to the link above, he did not fire his weapon. A deputy "mistakenly" thought he was fired upon.
Tucson KGUN’s Joel Waldman says the SWAT team prevented paramedics from going to work on Guerena for one hour and fourteen minutes.
The sheriff’s department maintains that Guerena was holding an AR-15 when the paramilitary force fired 71 bullets in his home, but other key parts of the government story have collapsed. While PCSD initially claimed Guerena fired the weapon he was alleged to have been holding, the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic inside a home containing a woman and a toddler:
A deputy's bullet struck the side of the doorway, causing chips of wood to fall on his shield. That prompted some members of the team to think the deputy had been shot, [PCSD spokesman Michael] O'Connor said.
And the worst part? They did not allow medical treatment for over an hour.
This is Kent State.
This is inexcusable.
Dupnik must be held responsible.
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Update: http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/20/sheriffs-slain-jose-guerena-li (http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/20/sheriffs-slain-jose-guerena-li)
The Arizona Daily Star’s Fernanda Echávarri reports that the sheriff’s department has complained of media reports that “spread misinformation and encouraged speculation.”
Really now. There was NO WARRANT NAMING GUERENA FOR ANYTHING.
Storie also speculates that police officers casing Guerena’s house a few days before the shooting were spied on by parties unknown, and he says a portrait of Jesus Malverde, “believed to be a ‘narco saint’” was found under Guerena’s bed.
It was either Patrick Henry or Rooster Cogburn who observed that states and railroads will lie to you quicker than a man will. While the sheriff has been quiet about the case’s details (including the dispatcher’s apparent confusion over the raid during Vanessa Guerena’s 911 call), Storie’s claims are almost perfect examples of lawyerly pettifogging. Having a picture of a “narco saint” is evidence of nothing; in 1975, my wife’s grandmother was killed by one Lebanese militia because while raiding her home they found a magazine published by a rival militia. Finding a uniform in a private residence was one of the KGB’s favorite pieces of flimflammery when they wanted to arrest somebody. Possession of firearms is, for the time being, legal in the United States, and the fact that Guerena had an AR-15 has been part of this narrative since the beginning.
Look, there was "narcotic" activity in his neighborhood according to Dupnik's spokesman. SWAT rolls up and is inside the house in less than one minute. Guerena just finished a 12 hour shift. They found zero drugs in his house, but they did "find" a picture of Jesus Malverde. Yeah, That's a capital offense.
Indiana's Supreme Court said this type of activity is lawful. Lawful, my ass.
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I'm not buying the character assassination they're attempting on this man. They screwed up, big time and they deliberately let the guy die to cover their azzes, IMO.
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I'm not buying the character assassination they're attempting on this man. They screwed up, big time and they deliberately let the guy die to cover their azzes, IMO.
Bingo-Bango.
Life imitating art: Cool Hand Luke shot by prison guard/sniper. The warden tells the ambulance to take him to the prison hospital an hour away, rather than the emergency clinic down the road.
"It's over an hour away! He ain't gonna make it." (@6:40)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJStzRuSFLY&feature=player_embedded#at=394 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJStzRuSFLY&feature=player_embedded#at=394)
eta: I am really, really pissed about this . . .
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He got Dupnik'd!
Big lawsuit coming I suspect!
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There's no excuse for delaying medical treatment -- that's cruel.
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Isn't it ironic that it's always the liberals of peace and love that do these big FUps while the radical right follows the rule of law.
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/politics/state_politics/group-wants-pima-county-to-secede-from-arizona-02242011
TUCSON, Ariz. - A group of Tucson attorneys says our state legislature has grown so conservative that they want Pima County to secede from Arizona to form a new state!
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Clearly Sheriff Dupnik is motivated by racism, to target an Hispanic household for this excessive force demonstration. Hey, it's what the liberals always say isn't it? Right back at ya Sheriff Stupnik.
Oh and by the way, the agents of the State will have no qualms whatsoever about visiting this sort of behavior upon you and yours either. We, the citizenry, are a "them".
::foilhathelicopter::
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Odd how the liberals are not demanding that the "public has a right to know" in regards to the warrants and such in this case.
Also the attorney for the SWAT members is digging for scraps, his claim that finding guns and body armor is what you would to expect to find in the home of someone who breaks into houses totally ignores Guerena's military service. Many returning vets from Iraq and Afghanistan feel unsafe without their weapons and body armor due to the conditions they were exposed to while serving there. So possession of these items are also indicative of veteran who has done his duty and suffers some consequences for that. For this swine of an attorney to endeavor to twist that into the sole evidence of criminal behavior is contemptable in the extreme. But that simply shows what a weak case he has and I hope that the truth will prevail.
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[blockquote]The SWAT officers fired 71 shots, striking Guerena 60 times.
The search warrant was not directed at any particular person, and Guerena's name was not mentioned, but it was targeting whoever might be inside the residence, Storie said. (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_a978c23a-a40f-5d0a-a203-76b88ac67e86.html?mode=story)
[/blockquote]
This may explain why no hurry for an ambulance; they didn't want him on the stand.
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If he was struck 60 times I'd say the ambulance could have been idling in the driveway and it wouldn't have mattered.
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I can't get pass the 60 hits.
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[blockquote]
According to the SWAT members' statements, all law enforcement vehicles approaching Guerena's home had lights and sirens on and parked in the driveway, Storie said.
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Storie said that once the SWAT team parked outside the home, the lights and sirens were turned off. An officer banged on the door for about 45 seconds while identifying the team as police, he said.
After that, five SWAT members broke in the front door and saw Guerena holding a rifle at the end of a long hallway.
One officer began shooting after Guerena placed the rifle in front of him and said: "I've got something for you; I've got something for you guys," Storie said.
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Show the tape. They tape it when they give tickets, they taped this. Show the tape.
This reads like it's made for TV, show me the tape.
ETA: More (http://causapatet.blogspot.com/2011/05/copdom_5449.html)
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Before anybody gets their hackles all up saying we here are anti-law enforcement, let me tell y'all a little story about deputies serving a warrant in Wilmington, N.C.
"Our unarmed 18-year-old son, Peyton, was killed when Chris Long, a deputy sheriff, fired three bullets from a submachine gun through the front door of Peyton’s house while he was answering the unlocked door. The failure of the grand jury to indict Long on any charge compounds our family’s tragedy."
The Grand Jury refused to indict the Deputy. Killed because the New Hanover County Sheriff Department believed that Strickland's roommate had stolen a stupid PS3 game console. Why were the deputies involved when this was an on-campus matter and campus cops were available?
Strickland was shot twice as New Hanover County deputies and University of North Carolina at Wilmington police raided a rental house in search of two stolen PlayStation 3 video systems. UNC-W police asked for support because they feared the residents of the house were armed and dangerous.
Read the stories and weep for the family of the innocent kid.
http://www.wral.com/news/local/asset_gallery/1208259/ (http://www.wral.com/news/local/asset_gallery/1208259/)
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1579486/ (http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1579486/)
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OMG, we're surrounded by the police as it was during those times of the SA in Nazi Germany. ::gaah::
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To believe the story Dupnik puts out, and revises and puts out again, just strains logic!
A man was gunned down in cold blood but the mere fact that he was ex-military, possessed guns and body armor are enough to convict him so screw legal rights just execute him! These people are no better than those he screamed at Pilate to crucify Christ!
What fantasyland! Hardworking guy by night, father and husband without any criminal record at all...but during the day he was an enthusiastic B&E thief? Where's the proof? Where's the evidence! He was not even named in a warrant! All they have are possibly fictitious statements and actions preceding the seconds before 60 of 71 shots riddled his body and the fact that he owned guns!
These fvckers won't go in nowhere near as hard on suspected Jisslamic terrorist scumbags!
If this stands we are all in serious danger! The links provided by Charles also drive this point home. When authorities lose respect for the law and they look at all of us as guilty scum who somewhere somehow are guilty of something...we will all be victims of a full-blown police state in short order!
This is what you get when you don't exercise common sense based profiling, this is what you get when a legal system punishes the innocent, this is what you get when those charged with protecting us are more concerned with protecting themselves...this is what you get when the legal system comes crashing down around you. We've let this pc/nulti-culti/diversity crap infect everything, we've let criminals have special rights and have turned deaf ears and blind eyes to real injustice.
Where are the LEO's of good conscience? How does this sit with them?!
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For me, the whole story is tainted simply by Dupnik's participation. I do not forget he was the LEO bigmouth featured by the lamestream media implicating the "right wing" in Gifford's shooting before anything was clear.
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Oh it's tainted to be sure, but it's still tainted even if you take Dupnik out of the picture, with him in it the stench is significantly worse!
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Anyone still get upset when a cop dies? Raise your hand. At this point, I've lost all respect for large police agencies from major metropolitan areas.
BTW, we are living in a police state, the overwhelming evidence clearly supports that.
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To believe the story Dupnik puts out, and revises and puts out again, just strains logic!
A man was gunned down in cold blood but the mere fact that he was ex-military, possessed guns and body armor are enough to convict him so screw legal rights just execute him!
Hmmm, rather brings to mind that DHS memo listing "returning servicemen" as potential threats. I guess they're just trying to get all the County Mounties thinking correctly and on the same page, it will make it a much more seamless transition when they're Federalized.
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Anyone still get upset when a cop dies? Raise your hand. At this point, I've lost all respect for large police agencies from major metropolitan areas.
BTW, we are living in a police state, the overwhelming evidence clearly supports that.
Not really. Shame, that; I'm sure there are decent ones, but they brought it on themselves with the SWAT/"Blue Line" mentality.
Once upon a time, soon after we moved here, an officer came to the door asking questions about the previous owner. He had called 911 for medical reasons and didn't reveal his location, so his last known address was the obvious site to check first.
It was dinner prep time and I invited the officer in while we made a phone call to the realtor to see what she knew.
I would never, ever, do that again. Mr. Officer Sir can just wait outside the shut door on the porch.
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So what do I teach my kids?
I've told them they never, ever answer the door to a stranger including a government "official" or even a cop. I said call 911 to tell them you're alone and there's someone outside who said they're a cop or official.
Maybe I need to tell them to hid under the bed in case bullets start flying?
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When so many treat the law-abiding as potential adversaries rather than potential allies they cannot feign shock to discover we now view them as potential adversaries in return.
They have a long way to go to regain my trust. They are so good about earning the trust of disadvantaged communities! ::gaah:: ::puke:: Well, nobody is more disadvantaged today than a law abiding citizen!
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http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/316833.php
The Guerena Shooting: Initial Analysis
The first and omitted part is a good summary of what a SWAT team is and what is expected of SWAT team personnel and how they perform.
THE GUERENA RAID:
With all of these factors in mind, let’s analyze the 54 second video clip released by the Pima County SO. The video seems to have been shot from a helmet-mounted camera worn by an officer in the back seat of a vehicle parked in the driveway of the Guerena home. The vehicle is apparently parked behind another vehicle, which is directly in front of the garage. Throughout the video [video at link], music, apparently from the radio in the police vehicle, can be heard. As the officers are preparing to enter, I can hear them speaking, but for whatever reason, most of what they say is unintelligible. No doubt, others using other equipment might be able to more clearly hear what is being said.
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Before I begin a second by second breakdown of the action, some general observations.
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[blockquote]
A reader comment:
The Cluster-f**k in the doorway with officer shield falling down and officer “me too” stuffing his gun in between his pals along with the ND that apparently set it all off ...all a damning proof of a bunch of half-wits with little training.
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http://www.captainsjournal.com/2011/05/27/the-jose-guerena-raid-a-demonstration-of-tactical-incompetence/
Bob Owen noticed the same thing I did. One of the team members fell in the doorway upon breaching and entering the home. The video speaks for itself, but by way of summary, let’s observe the following.
First, Mr. Guerena’s weapon, contrary to initial accounts by the SWAT team, was...
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At a Memorial Day afternoon social, I was able to corner my friend's BIL, a Raleigh, N.C police Sergeant. We chatted about the Dupnik deal, the shooting of an unarmed student in Wilmington, and the SWAT roll-out that I witnessed across the street from me. Let's just say he was not too excited about the professionalism, training and personnel in most sheriff departments.