It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum

Topics => Politics/Legislation/Elections => Topic started by: brad on July 22, 2011, 02:18:41 AM

Title: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: brad on July 22, 2011, 02:18:41 AM
The Center for Media and Democracy released 800 model bills, legislation that is straight out of the corporate playbook and drafted by the American Legislative Exchange Council. The group’s membership includes both state lawmakers and corporate executives who gather behind closed doors to discuss and vote on draft legislation. ALEC has come under increasing scrutiny in recent months for its role in crafting bills to attack worker rights, to roll back environmental regulations, privatize education, deregulate major industries, and pass voter ID laws. Thanks to ALEC, at least a dozen states have recently adopted a nearly identical resolution asking Congress to compel the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to stop regulating carbon emissions.

http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed (http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed)

Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: IronDioPriest on July 22, 2011, 07:52:09 AM
Gooooooooooo ALEC!!!!!! Must be a Leftist website "expose", because it seems to me that just about all the agenda items are designed to shrink government and reduce its influence.

I have to say though, after decades and even centuries of trying to manipulate the levers of government in their favor - with no mind for the devil they became beholden to - business tycoons are now in severe backpedal mode. It seems the only recourse for them to avoid eventual control by a Leftist regime is to appeal to the very conservative constitutional principles they rejected in their pursuit of advantage.

Something tells me though, that if they are able to influence legislation and wiggle out from under government's thumb, that there'll be just as much temptation between tycoons and politicians to start the whole mess over again.
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: Libertas on July 22, 2011, 08:06:59 AM
Yeah, that damn Industrial-Congressional Complex is harder to kick than heroin eh?!
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: brad on July 23, 2011, 04:28:20 AM
Quote
Something tells me though, that if they are able to influence legislation and wiggle out from under government's thumb, that there'll be just as much temptation between tycoons and politicians to start the whole mess over again.

I think it would do everyone well to stop looking at every issue as left or right.  (this is why the 2 party system works so well to exploit a political system)  The large corporations should not be allowed to define the conservative agenda.  

For example, ALEC wants to put more people in jail to increase demand to build and operate prisons and are succeeding, we have quintupled our prison population in 3 decades.  In my home state of Wisconsin they reversed early release recently while studies on recidivism directly contradicts policy which unjustifiably costs the state a pile of money.  The bill to remove early release was sponsored by Scott Sudor and  is also a long time member of  ALEC and on the Public Safety Task Force which also deals with and prison issues.  A major player in ALEC the Corrections Corporation of America who is the largest for profit prison company in America.

I can find other examples of this 'temptation' such as free trade. Regardless of their goals, large corporations writing legislation should be a red flag for all of us.  What we do see is that there are a lot of the same funding a lot of the same faces and a lot of the same ideals with the tea party. I don't think there is a pure tea party ALEC connection but many of the players are the same.  Big influence from large corporations is very dangerous and we should be ill at ease to let them define the conservative agenda.

I think currently we have 10 state governors that are or were ALEC members and roughly 5000 assembly members and senators.  We pay for the annual membership fee for them to sit down with large corporations and discuss legislation where we don't have a seat at the table.  It's not lobbying and they do not have to follow the rules and regulations on lobbying.
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: IronDioPriest on July 23, 2011, 08:12:24 AM
...I think it would do everyone well to stop looking at every issue as left or right.  (this is why the 2 party system works so well to exploit a political system)

I have moved in this direction as well. I've never seen it defined as succinctly as by Glenn Beck, nor as articulately as by Mark Levin. For all these years, in our support of Republicans in general, we have been arguing over tyranny or tyranny-lite. I think there is no question but that the elections of '10 were a signal that the people are aware of the difference now between the Republican party style "conservatism" as it has been manifested, and the constitution.

Quote
The large corporations should not be allowed to define the conservative agenda.

Define it? OK, I'm with you. I think the electorate should define it through their representation. But corporations are essentially a group of people included in the electorate overall, represented by the same politicians as everyone else. They have interests, just like people do. They have corporate interests. They should be able to hold politicians accountable, just as any group of people are allowed to do so. Should they "define" the agenda? No. Should they have a seat at the table? Should they have the ability to redress grievances? I see no clear way to prevent it under the constitution.

Quote
For example, ALEC wants to put more people in jail to increase demand to build and operate prisons and are succeeding, we have quintupled our prison population in 3 decades.  In my home state of Wisconsin they reversed early release recently while studies on recidivism directly contradicts policy which unjustifiably costs the state a pile of money.  The bill to remove early release was sponsored by Scott Sudor and  is also a long time member of  ALEC and on the Public Safety Task Force which also deals with and prison issues.  A major player in ALEC the Corrections Corporation of America who is the largest for profit prison company in America.

I won't say you're wrong, but I will say I'm not prepared to accept this claim based on the information at the website you linked. It clearly has an anti-corporate agenda, and the cynical claim that a company wants to unjustifiably put people in prison so that it can get contracts for more prisons seems - a bit "off" to me. Doesn't pass the sniff test without more sources.

Quote
I can find other examples of this 'temptation' such as free trade. Regardless of their goals, large corporations writing legislation should be a red flag for all of us.  What we do see is that there are a lot of the same funding a lot of the same faces and a lot of the same ideals with the tea party. I don't think there is a pure tea party ALEC connection but many of the players are the same.  Big influence from large corporations is very dangerous and we should be ill at ease to let them define the conservative agenda.

As I said earlier, I agree that any group of individuals writing (or defining) legislation other than congressmen at the behest of their constituency is a problem.

Quote
I think currently we have 10 state governors that are or were ALEC members and roughly 5000 assembly members and senators.  We pay for the annual membership fee for them to sit down with large corporations and discuss legislation where we don't have a seat at the table.  It's not lobbying and they do not have to follow the rules and regulations on lobbying.

I don't see a problem with politicians discussing legislation with corporate interests. I'm not anti-corporation. I think corporations are good on the balance.

All I can say is that if their agenda includes crafting bills to attack worker rights (sounds like they oppose Big Labor),  rolling back environmental regulations (sounds like they oppose the EPA), privatizing education (an absolutely wonderful idea), deregulating major industries (also an absolutely wonderful idea), and passing voter ID laws (an idea that I do not believe America can survive without), then I can hardly look at this "ALEC" group as a manifestation of anti-conservative, anti-constitutional evil. At first blush, it sounds to me like they're on the right page. Further, it seems to me that the "ALECExposed" website is against all those good things ALEC is fighting for.
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: IronDioPriest on July 23, 2011, 08:32:03 AM
The ALEC Controversy — Much Ado About Nothing (http://www.openmarket.org/2011/07/22/the-alec-controversy-much-ado-about-nothing/)

[blockquote]I listened to the NPR segment about The Nation magazine and Center for Media Democracy’s (CMD’s) alleged exposé on the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), a national association of conservative state legislators. Calling their project “ALEC Exposed,” The Nation and CMD try to make hay out of the well-known fact that ALEC’s public- and private-sector members draft model legislation ”behind closed doors.”[/blockquote]

"The Nation" magazine is run by that skank Leftist pig, Katrina Vanden Heuvel. That pretty much tells me ALL I need to know about "ALECExposed". It is a Leftist, anti-capitalist group. Screw this. Leftist propaganda has no quarter here.

(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p98/IronDioPriest/vanden-heuvel.jpg)

[blockquote]I checked out The Nation‘s landing page, then “Business Domination, Inc.” (the first of five articles posted on the site), then the CMD site and its archive of 800-plus ALEC model bills. There’s no there there. What The Nation and CMD are waging is just another lefty campaign to drive the marketplace out of the marketplace of ideas.

In “Business Domination, Inc.,” the authors claim that ALEC believes that “Any force in civil society, especially labor, that contests the right of business to grab all social surplus for itself, and to treat people like road kill and the earth like a sewer, should be crushed.” Didn’t Karl Marx say stuff like that about all capitalists?

The model bills the authors cite to illustrate ALEC’s alleged hostility to people and the earth in fact demonstrate ALEC’s fidelity to its mission, which is “to advance the Jeffersonian principles of free markets, limited government, federalism, and individual liberty.” One ALEC model bill would require a super-majority vote to raise taxes. Another would require tax rates to decline as state revenues increase, another would prohibit government agencies from unfairly competing with private-sector firms, another would require competitive contracting at the Department of Motor Vehicles, another would bar unions from using membership dues for political advocacy.[/blockquote]

You have a problem with this mission Brad? Please, explain to me how. You're advocating the work and ideology of Katrina VandenHeuvel. You need to rethink that.

(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p98/IronDioPriest/29v1krq.gif)
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: brad on July 23, 2011, 09:51:30 AM
I won't say you're wrong, but I will say I'm not prepared to accept this claim based on the information at the website you linked. It clearly has an anti-corporate agenda, and the cynical claim that a company wants to unjustifiably put people in prison so that it can get contracts for more prisons seems - a bit "off" to me. Doesn't pass the sniff test without more sources.

I'm not willing to take the step that they are wanting to unjustifiably put people in jail but there is legislation that can be passed that will increase the average stay in prison such as the bill i referred to in Wisconsin.  I can think of some other examples but I just wanted to be more clear that there are ways to increase prison populations without additional convictions.

IronDioPriest I think that you have misunderstood what I'm trying to say.  I'm just making a point about blindly following the corporate line without question is dangerous.

Lets take the audit of the fed in conjunction with the retirement of Sheila Beir under consideration.  As most of the mainstream media grossly failed to report the first top to bottom audit of the fed was conducted this week which revealed that $16 trillion in secret loans were given to bail out large American and foreign banks and large corporations from 2007 to 2009.  As Sheila Beir (since her resignation at the FDIC 2 weeks ago she can finally speak freely about her 5 year term) reports the FDIC had plenty of money to insure depositors but there was not money for cross gambles on derivatives.  Here is where Bernake and Geithner  and the treasury department under bush wanted to save the rich.  If they would have let AIG and Citibank fail then they would be unable to pay their losing bet. She strongly opposed but was overruled by Bernake and Geithner and the treasury department.  This 16 trillion was just created on a keyboard at the federal reserve for gambles that has nothing to do with the real economy.  Since this time much of this has been repaid but there is a residue of 13 trillion that has been added to the national debt. 

The SEC does not have the authority to regulate derivatives and the FDIC is mainly in place to insure the profitability of banks(a profitable bank is a good bank because it does not go under).  The problem with this situation is that investors don't know (can't know) how many gambles your financial institution has under the table (with derivatives) thus making it impossible to make an informed decision about my lending institution. 

Also mortgage lending has become very complicated for a reason, so consumers don't understand what they are signing.  They are trying to fix this with dodd frank but large corporations have fought tooth and nail to prevent ANY regulation and we are in the same damn situation that we were before things blew up in 2008.  Then when they try to put someone into place that has the investors best interest in mind and they reject her nomination insisting that any regulation is bad.  Banks need to have regulations, and consumers signing a mortgage should be able to understand it without a financial law degree. 

This is just one example where large corporate interests don't align with conservative interests. 
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: Pandora on July 23, 2011, 10:09:51 AM
Quote
They are trying to fix this with dodd frank ...

You are aware that contained within "Dodd/Frank" is a provision mandating loans to low income borrowers, yes?  A continuation of the same policy that helped get us in this mess.
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: rickl on July 23, 2011, 10:15:45 AM
Dodd and Frank should both be in prison.

The very idea that their bill can fix what they had a large role in causing shows just how far down the rabbit hole we have gone.
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: radioman on July 23, 2011, 10:20:25 AM
You know, for all I know, if I had to choose between corporations vs goverment, I will side with the corporations everytime.

I can always choose to not do business with companies I don't like. I also recognize that corporations are people, citizens, that have a right to do business as they see fit, as long as they don't break the law (onerous regulations is not what I consider the law anyway).

BTW, you can't choose to not do business with the government, now can you?
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: IronDioPriest on July 23, 2011, 10:22:18 AM
...Also mortgage lending has become very complicated for a reason, so consumers don't understand what they are signing.  They are trying to fix this with dodd frank but large corporations have fought tooth and nail to prevent ANY regulation and we are in the same damn situation that we were before things blew up in 2008...

You are positing that Dodd/Frank is a genuine attempt to right some perceived wrong in the mortgage lending industry?

Chris Dodd and Barney Frank are perhaps, more than any other legislators, responsible for the housing crisis we are now facing. The fact that they offered a legislative "fix" and were taken seriously in doing so, and are not instead being executed for treason is something I would rectify if it were within my power to do so.

Yes, I would see Chris Dodd and Barney Frank electrocuted or put to sleep for what they've done. They offer nothing of value, and have committed much evil.
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: IronDioPriest on July 23, 2011, 10:23:09 AM
...if I had to choose between corporations vs goverment, I will side with the corporations everytime....

Bingo AND Yahtzee.
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: Pandora on July 23, 2011, 10:32:29 AM
You know, for all I know, if I had to choose between corporations vs goverment, I will side with the corporations everytime.

I can always choose to not do business with companies I don't like. I also recognize that corporations are people, citizens, that have a right to do business as they see fit, as long as they don't break the law (onerous regulations is not what I consider the law anyway).

BTW, you can't choose to not do business with the government, now can you?


No, we have become the government's business.

As for corporations, I'm not particularly thrilled with the rent-seeking I've seen.  Business practices are one thing, crony "capitalism" is another and leads me to believe most are not free-market minded.  They'll use the government to kill their competition, if they can, and to increase the hurdles to going into business.  None of this would be possible if the 536+ people in DC, and state legislatures to a lesser extent, weren't selling, and it's not just the tax code nor pure fear.

The NC legislature is considering mandating business licenses - some will be requiring college degrees now -- for a whole raft of occupations, like music therapy, African hair-braiding, "landscaping".  The hair salons are all too happy to have this done, it keeps out the "unprofessional" riff-raff; the "official" landscaping services are happy as well to burden the guy with a trailer full of lawnmowers and weed-whackers.  They're all about "protecting the public" while what they're doing is protecting their franchise.

In America, it's sickening to see this.

Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: rickl on July 23, 2011, 10:37:59 AM
The correct term for "crony capitalism" is "fascism".

Unfortunately, that word has been rendered meaningless by generations of liberals using it as an epithet for "anyone who disagrees with me".
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: IronDioPriest on July 23, 2011, 10:42:45 AM
Yup. Rent-seeking and crony capitalism are the downside - the underbelly. It stands to reason that less scrupulous types in business would seek it, but it is the duty of politicians to eschew it.

Here in MN, even the fishing guide industry has nuzzled up to politicians to the point where one has a burdensome set of hoops to jump through and expenses to incur before one can even take money in exchange for taking someone fishing under the premise of "guiding".
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: radioman on July 23, 2011, 11:07:47 AM
Crony capitalism is the government and business colluding - IOW - government interference, just like onerous regulations, etc.

That is not free market capitalism.
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: IronDioPriest on July 23, 2011, 12:21:45 PM
Crony capitalism is the government and business colluding - IOW - government interference, just like onerous regulations, etc.

That is not free market capitalism.

Right. Still, to return back to the concerns of our new friend Brad, the proposal that Dodd/Frank was somehow meant as a way to "fix" the inherent corruption of crony capitalism is ludicrous on its face.
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: Libertas on July 23, 2011, 12:37:43 PM
...if I had to choose between corporations vs goverment, I will side with the corporations everytime....

Bingo AND Yahtzee.

 ::thumbsup::

Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: AlanS on July 23, 2011, 12:58:41 PM
They are trying to fix this with dodd frank ..........

Whoa!!!

(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcThKY-RmUH7DCS4LLHva4AJpGnnaCJdCiw0YFFLc4uN1neOoj_ggQ)
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: brad on July 23, 2011, 01:27:49 PM
Crony capitalism is the government and business colluding - IOW - government interference, just like onerous regulations, etc.

That is not free market capitalism.

Right. Still, to return back to the concerns of our new friend Brad, the proposal that Dodd/Frank was somehow meant as a way to "fix" the inherent corruption of crony capitalism is ludicrous on its face.

I don't think that fascism was the cause of this, I think that lack of oversight and poor business practices with the correct assumption that Bush wouldn't let them take the hit.

This legislation is designed to oversee the giant derivatives market, increasing transparency by forcing most contracts to be traded through third-parties instead of only between banks and their customers.  How do you propose we do this without regulation?  We all saw what happened in 2008, obviously we can't leave it up to self regulation.  I would be very careful where you get information regarding the 2008 crisis, I've heard repeatedly that it was caused by people not paying on mortgages which is obviously untrue and very disingenuous.
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: Libertas on July 23, 2011, 02:03:23 PM
Well, first the derivative markets were created by the so-called best & brightest from the Ivy League and Wall Street picked up the ball and ran hard with it.  Last I saw Wall Streeters, while being bad-mouthed by Duh Wun in public, we're allowed in through the WH's back door and are big Obamakov contributors and his cabinet and advisors are thick with them.

Second, the housing crises was a done deal and can trace its roots to CRA.  F/F was the toxic waste dump left for taxpayers to eat and Obama/Dodd/Frank are all for putting people who can't afford homes into them.  It is tragic but natural for lenders to go along with the scheme because a) they were forced by regulation to do so and b) F/F were there to collateralize much of the crap.

A much better option would be to repeal these nefarious regulations and end the F/F schemes that created and still perpetuate this fraud, let lenders determine who to lend to and how much risk to take and get the taxpayers off the financial hook for other peoples mistakes.

The housing market will dip another 20% guaranteed.  More lenders will go under and all the Ruling Class has to offer is more recycled failure.

Unless the perpetrators of this fraud like Obama & Frank are kicked out of office this situation will not change, housing will not recover and collapse is inevitable.

Stop feeding failure!!!
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: brad on July 23, 2011, 03:23:36 PM
Well, first the derivative markets were created by the so-called best & brightest from the Ivy League and Wall Street picked up the ball and ran hard with it.  Last I saw Wall Streeters, while being bad-mouthed by Duh Wun in public, we're allowed in through the WH's back door and are big Obamakov contributors and his cabinet and advisors are thick with them.

Second, the housing crises was a done deal and can trace its roots to CRA.  F/F was the toxic waste dump left for taxpayers to eat and Obama/Dodd/Frank are all for putting people who can't afford homes into them.  It is tragic but natural for lenders to go along with the scheme because a) they were forced by regulation to do so and b) F/F were there to collateralize much of the crap.

A much better option would be to repeal these nefarious regulations and end the F/F schemes that created and still perpetuate this fraud, let lenders determine who to lend to and how much risk to take and get the taxpayers off the financial hook for other peoples mistakes.

The housing market will dip another 20% guaranteed.  More lenders will go under and all the Ruling Class has to offer is more recycled failure.

Unless the perpetrators of this fraud like Obama & Frank are kicked out of office this situation will not change, housing will not recover and collapse is inevitable.

Stop feeding failure!!!

The problem with F/F is that anyone dealing with them assumes/presumes that they are default proof because of their ties with the government.  People defaulting on mortgages didn't cause this crisis and I believe your assessment is a little displaced appropriating blame on bad loans.  The banks lost their ass on derivatives which had much more to do with the crisis in 2008 than anything else.  A few years ago a nice documentary was done regarding the Clinton administration and Alan Greenspan regarding this mess. http://video.pbs.org/video/1302794657 (http://video.pbs.org/video/1302794657)

It's also little naive to think that large corporate banks don't support GOP candidates and that electing a republican will make it all better.  Obama has been very business friendly in my opinion.  I am having some trouble understanding your argument that Obama has all of the wall street special interests on speed dial with back door access but is pushing legislation directly geared to hurt them. 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/cron/ (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/cron/)
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: John Florida on July 23, 2011, 03:33:31 PM
Crony capitalism is the government and business colluding - IOW - government interference, just like onerous regulations, etc.

That is not free market capitalism.

Right. Still, to return back to the concerns of our new friend Brad, the proposal that Dodd/Frank was somehow meant as a way to "fix" the inherent corruption of crony capitalism is ludicrous on its face.

I don't think that fascism was the cause of this, I think that lack of oversight and poor business practices with the correct assumption that Bush wouldn't let them take the hit.

This legislation is designed to oversee the giant derivatives market, increasing transparency by forcing most contracts to be traded through third-parties instead of only between banks and their customers.  How do you propose we do this without regulation?  We all saw what happened in 2008, obviously we can't leave it up to self regulation.  I would be very careful where you get information regarding the 2008 crisis, I've heard repeatedly that it was caused by people not paying on mortgages which is obviously untrue and very disingenuous.

 Who was supposed to be providing that so called oversight?
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: AlanS on July 23, 2011, 04:38:03 PM
The problem with F/F is that anyone dealing with them assumes/presumes that they are default proof because of their ties with the government.  People defaulting on mortgages didn't cause this crisis and I believe your assessment is a little displaced appropriating blame on bad loans.  The banks lost their ass on derivatives which had much more to do with the crisis in 2008 than anything else.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the bad loans bundled and sold through derivitives?

It's also little naive to think that large corporate banks don't support GOP candidates and that electing a republican will make it all better.  Obama has been very business friendly in my opinion.  I am having some trouble understanding your argument that Obama has all of the wall street special interests on speed dial with back door access but is pushing legislation directly geared to hurt them.

Sorry, but we're NOT disillusioned into think the RINO's are going to save the day. But I do find it amusing how you think Odrama is business friendly. Care to make a point?
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: IronDioPriest on July 23, 2011, 05:07:01 PM
...F/F was the toxic waste dump left for taxpayers to eat and Obama/Dodd/Frank are all for putting people who can't afford homes into them...

We can't forget George W. Bush. Shoehorning urban Blacks who couldn't afford a mortgage into a home mortgage was a big "compassionate conservative" initiative of his as well.
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: IronDioPriest on July 23, 2011, 05:22:09 PM
....The problem with F/F is that anyone dealing with them assumes/presumes that they are default proof because of their ties with the government.  People defaulting on mortgages didn't cause this crisis and I believe your assessment is a little displaced appropriating blame on bad loans.  The banks lost their ass on derivatives which had much more to do with the crisis in 2008 than anything else.

Why do you think the derivatives lost their value? One can question whether such an ethereal financial product as a derivative is a legitimate investment vehicle. But the reality is, they existed, and they were worth something. They were traded on the presumption that they were underpinned with equity AND guaranteed by the federal government through Freddy and Fanny..

Social engineers in and out of politics worked to force lenders to borrow billions to people who could never hope to pay the money back, and who had no track record of large loan repayment. With all that money changing hands, AND the federal government guaranteeing through Freddy & Fanny that the taxpayer was shouldering the risk, investors believed they had a mechanism through which to trade mortgage-backed derivatives that could not fail.

They got greedy, yes. No question about it. But the pieces of the puzzle that allowed those derivatives to become worthless were all put into place by the federal government at the behest of liberals in collusion with Wall Street financiers, and Freddy/Fanny was their sandbox. All it took was for the market to see foreclosures trending upward - which was guaranteed to happen when you loan money to trash en masse - and those derivatives became worthless fast.

You can't pin the blame on people not paying their mortgage. But you certainly cannot discount it as a step in the process. And you MOST certainly cannot place the majority of the blame anywhere but on the federal government, and in particular, Chris Dodd and Barney Frank.

Quote
...Obama has been very business friendly in my opinion. ...

Then all I can say is - with as much kindness as I can muster for a newbie - you're out of your f**king mind.
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: Pandora on July 23, 2011, 10:40:43 PM
Quote
... forcing most contracts to be traded through third-parties instead of only between banks and their customers.

Oh puleeze!  The deal is between the bank and a customer.  What is this third-party supposed to do, protect us from them?  Ourselves?  Almost every real estate deal now has a lawyer involved to inform his client and it is supposed we need another bureaucratic agency to interpose itself between us and the ones with whom we want to deal?

If you're feeling too ignorant, ill-equipped or poor to act like an adult, by doing your homework and hiring a lawyer in preparation for taking on a mortgage, RENT.

This is the same sh*t pushed by Obamacare and I dare anyone to tell me this is going to work out well for anybody but the bureaucrats.
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: John Florida on July 24, 2011, 11:29:18 AM
Quote
... forcing most contracts to be traded through third-parties instead of only between banks and their customers.

Oh puleeze!  The deal is between the bank and a customer.  What is this third-party supposed to do, protect us from them?  Ourselves?  Almost every real estate deal now has a lawyer involved to inform his client and it is supposed we need another bureaucratic agency to interpose itself between us and the ones with whom we want to deal?

If you're feeling too ignorant, ill-equipped or poor to act like an adult, by doing your homework and hiring a lawyer in preparation for taking on a mortgage, RENT.

This is the same sh*t pushed by Obamacare and I dare anyone to tell me this is going to work out well for anybody but the bureaucrats.

 Third party just gets a pice of the pie the buyer brought.
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: ToddF on July 26, 2011, 08:20:19 AM
Financial Supporters
The Center for Media and Democracy (CMD) is a non-profit 501(c)(3) organization.

....

Open Society Institute

....

Just sayin'
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: ToddF on July 26, 2011, 08:26:48 AM
I'm not blindly FOR anything, except the right of like minded people to assemble...something the Communist trash behind the Nation and George Soros don't think.
Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: IronDioPriest on July 26, 2011, 08:29:31 AM
Financial Supporters
The Center for Media and Democracy (CMD) is a non-profit 501(c)(3) organization.

....

Open Society Institute

....

Just sayin'

Yes. So what you're saying is, in essence, our new friend Brad is gathering and reposting his information from entities affiliated with George Soros.

Title: Re: American Legislative Exchange Council model bills published
Post by: ToddF on July 26, 2011, 08:42:34 AM
Just saying that for whatever reason, this organization found themselves in the crosshairs of the entire leftist/Marxist trash cabal, for no other reason than promoting conservative/libertarian positions, and being a gathering place for like minded such.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Legislative_Exchange_Council (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Legislative_Exchange_Council)

In the United States of America, despite the best efforts of leftist garbage, doing what leftist garbage has done throughout time, Conservatives/Libertarians still have the right of assembly, and I have no tolerance for those who think otherwise.