It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => 2nd Amendment/Firearms => Topic started by: Libertas on November 14, 2011, 12:19:13 PM
-
Bachmann is a co-sponsor of this, it is my understanding that this is purely a reciprocity agreement, does not make state laws obsolete...NAGR is fearful and calling it a "Trojan horse" that it will give a national database of permit holders to Holder's DoJ, create a national template for training that is so high that most current or potential permit holders would fail to meet, introduce burdensome "need" into the approval process, more frequent renewals, higher fees, federally mandated waiting periods...all of that is always a possibility with these clowns but a lot of this fear seems overblown to me and is hyped up for fundraising purposes. But having said that how can national reciprocity be managed state to state? At first it seems logical, valid state permit is a valid state permit, it is up the the permit holding to know the state law of the state they are in if they carry, no change from now for multi-state permit holders...the national law would simply make the reciprocity mandatory from carry state to carry state. If there is a question in one state concerning the legitimacy of a permit holders permit, it is a simple enough thing for a LEO to take the personal info of the permit holder and contact the authorities of the issuing state. Granted there may be a time delay, but if simply following up on an otherwise law-abiding citizen an instantaneous database check is not needed...the presumption of innocence of a permit holder should be intact, especially in the absence of any reasonable probable cause to suspect otherwise!
Am I looking at this right?
If not, do we need to start contacting Rep's and kill this thing?
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h112-822 (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h112-822)
-
If there is a question in one state concerning the legitimacy of a permit holders permit, it is a simple enough thing for a LEO to take the personal info of the permit holder and contact the authorities of the issuing state. Granted there may be a time delay, ...
A good IT man could write a program enabling the on site officer confirmation
ability while also not logging the query and any information [into any data base.
Federal representatives, Bachmann, Gingrich et al, do not walk the conservative
walk. They are institutionally infected with the "omnipotent" virus. They can't
comprehend that NO means NO all the time.
-
I don't like it. As Charles writes, NO means NO, ALL THE TIME, and, while Congress may believe this is consistent with laws demanding all States accept the validity of a driver's license from any one State -- and seen in this light, it is consistent -- this will be yet another strike against the Tenth Amendment.
Now, there will be yet another precedent by which same-sex "marriages" may be imposed on us all.
Bad enough the BATF exists; I don't want them in charge of another damn thing, especially not reciprocal "concealed carry", and I don't want them having a database of us by which to do it.
Bachmann is beginning to look to me like she doesn't think these things through to their logical, Constitutional end.
-
Even Bachmann is grounded somewhat in the pre-Tea Party definition of conservatism.
Who could've predicted we'd come to a point when Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich, or Eric Cantor are considered insufficiently conservative, or when a politician calling for federal recognition of state firearm reciprocity would be seen as a gun-grabbing measure.
But here we are. Trust is a casualty of betrayal.
-
::thumbsinlapels::
-
v Sometimes I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.
-
v Sometimes I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.
And we're still stuck in it, right?
::outrage::
-
v Sometimes I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.
And we're still stuck in it, right?
::outrage::
Roger that. Is that daylite I see at the end of the tunnel? Or a train?
-
Stay far to the side of the rails as possible till you find out.
-
v Sometimes I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.
And we're still stuck in it, right?
Someone wake me up, this nightmare just won't end!!
-
v Sometimes I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.
And we're still stuck in it, right?
Someone wake me up, this nightmare just won't end!!
I keep sayin' the same thing. Longest damn nightmare evah! ::gaah::
-
It appears libiots are up to their usual gun-grabbing ways...jokers like Sheila Jackson Lee are trying to attach amendments that mandate live-fire training and a comprehensive database LEO's can access 24/7.
Damn Commies!
::gaah::
-
If they attach enough amendments to make it
completely absurd they will be able to summon
the courage to vote it down?
-
Courage?!
::hysterical::
-
I do not believe I just heard the "news" actually use my comparison of driver's licensing to CCW reciprocity in reporting on the House taking up this bill today, which is "expected to pass".
Not good.
-
Maybe they meant that your DL will now be your CCW;
in other words, if you possess a valid photo DL one
doesn't need a CCW, you know, being that you are an
American and are not a felon what cause do they have
to prevent you from carrying.
-
Maybe they meant that your DL will now be your CCW;
in other words, if you possess a valid photo DL one
doesn't need a CCW, you know, being that you are an
American and are not a felon what cause do they have
to prevent you from carrying.
I think not and ::scoffscoff:: at the irony that any such reasonable thing would be permitted by THE FEDS! (I see that tongue in yer cheek, there, CO!) As you wrote elsewhere, they do not acknowledge that NO means NO.
Applying for a CCW involves giving up your fingerprints to the FBI and there is no way in hell the FEDS are going to relinquish these additions to their database.
No, the "report" brought up the DLs as a comparison, the way I had.
-
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/11/16/gun-rights-or-states-rights/ (http://hotair.com/archives/2011/11/16/gun-rights-or-states-rights/)
Here’s a conundrum for limited-government conservatives. Should the federal government dictate reciprocity on firearm carry permits to states as part of its authority under the Commerce Clause and the incorporation view of the Second Amendment? Or should states have the sovereignty to decide on reciprocity for carry permits as a function of federalism and states’ rights? A vote today in the House may test conservatives on this question.
-
Merging with previous thread.
-
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/11/16/gun-rights-or-states-rights/ (http://hotair.com/archives/2011/11/16/gun-rights-or-states-rights/)
Here’s a conundrum for limited-government conservatives. Should the federal government dictate reciprocity on firearm carry permits to states as part of its authority under the Commerce Clause and the incorporation view of the Second Amendment? Or should states have the sovereignty to decide on reciprocity for carry permits as a function of federalism and states’ rights? A vote today in the House may test conservatives on this question.
Under the Commerce clause?! Again with the Commerce clause?! That's some freakin' stretch.
If the commerce clause was meant to cover everything congress, the president and the courts seem to want it to, there would have been no point whatsoever -- zip, zero, nada -- to write the rest of the Constitution.
The House is going to vote on it on this basis? Jackasses all.
Can't stand it.
-
The Pandora's not the only entity makin' lists you know.
And, of course, the bigger the list the better.
-
I'm on enough lists already...
Serve in the Armed Forces? Government has your prints on file, and a full set of your service record.
Contribute to a political party or candidate? Hell, everybody has your name!
Driver's License? You are in more databases than you can count!
Passport? Hunting/fishing license? Birth records? Transcripts? Associations/Clubs? Subscriptions? Financial records? Tax returns? The list is endless...
And don't forget how much can get mined and sifted in the electronic frontier, especially by the NSA!
Sometimes I figure "what's one more?"...they know where I am already!
-
Serve in the Armed Forces? Government has your prints on file, and a full set of your service record.
And if you've relatively recently been in the military (since at least 1996) they also have your DNA on file. I was a combat medic in the Army - enlisted in 1996 and one of my tasks at that time was to take DNA samples from every soldier in my company. We would draw some blood and fill in a dime-sized circle on a cardboard template - 5 or 6 such circles actually - and turn them over to the officer in charge of our medical unit who would then file them away for appropriate long-term storage.
-
Nice. Just think of the criminality one could get set up with if that crap fell into the wrong hands?! ::speechless::
-
FYI - HR 822 passed 272-154, on to the Senate, where no doubt Schumer and the rest of the asshats will obliterate the thing with so many batsh*t crazy amendments it dies a quick death...if it is even brought up by Dingy...
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/house-passes-concealed-weapons-bill-that-would-allow-interstate-travel/ (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/house-passes-concealed-weapons-bill-that-would-allow-interstate-travel/)
-
Serve in the Armed Forces? Government has your prints on file, and a full set of your service record.
And if you've relatively recently been in the military (since at least 1996) they also have your DNA on file. I was a combat medic in the Army - enlisted in 1996 and one of my tasks at that time was to take DNA samples from every soldier in my company. We would draw some blood and fill in a dime-sized circle on a cardboard template - 5 or 6 such circles actually - and turn them over to the officer in charge of our medical unit who would then file them away for appropriate long-term storage.
Would it be cynical of me to suspect that, judging by general governmental inefficiency, none of those DNA samples were stored appropriately and are now worthless?
-
@Pan:
I suppose it's possible - the government screws up EVERYTHING it touches after all. I'm not banking on that though. I'm going to operate on the assumption that my DNA is on a government database somewhere.