It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => General Board => Topic started by: charlesoakwood on March 15, 2011, 04:11:00 PM
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First, the good news. (http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=182324) The second plant, containing four reactors about a dozen or so kilometers from the one that has been the subject of all the reporting, has reached cold shutdown on all four reactors.
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The astounding part of this is that during such a disaster you have lots of available energy in the form of steam pressure you don't want in the plant. Why someone didn't consider this and include an emergency steam turbine sufficient to run the high-pressure feedwater and circulation pumps to a heat exchanger that could dump the heat, completely without electrical power, is beyond me. Such a system would require nothing other than physical plant integrity to be maintained, could be designed as a purely mechanical system with no reliance on electrical power, and would have avoided all of the core damage.
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From Market Ticker . org
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=182324 (http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=182324)
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This old GE dude basically is pointed a finger at the cooling system too. But word of caution, he resigned and joined the anti-nuke movement, so this all seems to be convenient timing for him, but it doesn't appear he is necessarily wrong.
Part of lessons learned. If we had been allowed to build new, better designed plants, maybe we would not have some of these same reactor designs in operation now.
So to me the big finger should still be pointed at politicians and their knee-jerk obedience to the anti-nuke crowd.
And lets be clear, worst case scenario, this design should still not result in a full Chernobyl-style radiation spewing everywhere event!
Alas, sound reasoning will be, and is, the first casualty in this debate! And we will not be better off for it if the leftnuts have their way!
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fukushima-mark-nuclear-reactor-design-caused-ge-scientist/story?id=13141287 (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fukushima-mark-nuclear-reactor-design-caused-ge-scientist/story?id=13141287)
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Smoke is billowing from what appears to be Reactor #3 (with MOX fuel) right now. And another spike in radiation outside the plant is being recorded. Very limited other information at this time.
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Yeah. Been monitoring that and posted in the other thread.
Last update of note was the confirmed death toll has passed 11 thousand. I fear that will rise quite a bit more.
Sad, really sad.
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It is amazing how crappy (read: unreliable) the information is. I don't know what the reason is. Maybe it's screwy translation. Maybe it's the Ron Burgundy syndrome. Maybe it's a conspiracy to keep us stupid. Don't know. But whatever it is, it is incredibly annoying to go online and not be able to find reliable and truthful facts about what is happening at any given point. It's not as bad as the non-reporting that came out of Louisiana during Katrina but it's close.
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Apparently it's not just us. Kudlow quoted the Prime Minister speaking to the head of the generating company, the one that yesterday pronounced lowering radioactivity and this morning as raising, saying, "WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON!"
So apparently they have some internal CYA going on also.
A "what to do when the hand of God moves your island 8' east" hasn't been written yet and they are having a go at it.
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Main headline seen on Drudge at this hour:
Japan To U.S.: Help!
Which makes me wonder, "Do they really know who is currently running the show over here?" Maybe they are so overcome with stress and exhaustion that they think GWB is still in charge. They need to call France. The cheese eating surrender monkeys have a better chance of answering the call than Toonces.
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Saw this earlier, considering Trap's and preceding comments the following post is appropriate.
A meditation on Friendship
Posted by Ann Barnhardt - March 15, AD 2011 11:53 AM MST
What is a friend? There are many, many ways to define friendship. One universally applicable definition leaps into my mind today, March 15th. A friend could be defined as someone who will help you when you are in need of help. Furthermore, a friend is someone who not only WILL help, but WANTS to help. A friend WANTS to be burdened. A friend WANTS to be inconvenienced. A friend WANTS to be bothered and put-upon. Not only that, but if a suffering person does NOT reveal their suffering to their friend, the friend will actually feel rejected and hurt for not being entrusted, nay GIFTED, with the opportunity to share in the suffering. This is where we get the word "compassion". "Com" means "with". "Passion" means "suffer". Friends want to suffer with their friends. As we go through life and we choose our friends, are we not subconsciously saying to ourselves, "Yes, THIS is a person whom I would want to share my sufferings with - and I would want to share in theirs." We make this determination based upon our perception of the moral character and interior goodness of the individual. The finer the character of the person, the deeper their goodness and the stronger their faith, the more "co-suffering" they will be able to bear with us, and thus the less likely they will be to abandon us in our times of need. And selfish though it may seem, every human being is, at the end of it all, trying desperately to avoid finding themselves abandoned.
Japan has formally asked for the help of the United States. The fact is, the request should never have needed to be made. Japan is our friend. Something horrible happened to them. We should have immediately presented ourselves and all of our tactical assets to them within a matter of minutes. "What do you need? What can we do? YOU ARE NOT ALONE. WE ARE GOING TO STAY WITH YOU AND HELP YOU THROUGH THIS - NO MATTER WHAT." Really, the most important point is not the actual, tactical assistance in and of itself - although in this case that is certainly important. The main point is just making sure that they know that we are there with them - making our real presence known to them, so to speak. Because sometimes that is the only thing of comfort that can be given - presence.
Is Japan perfect? No. 66 years ago Japan was in the grips and clutches of a truly evil spirit. They killed many of our people, and in trying to liberate them from the evil spirit that had infected them, we killed a lot of their people too. And when that mess was finally over and resolved, we picked them up, we dusted them off, showed them how to make cars and TVs, and welcomed them back in friendship. And we have both been the better for it.
Barack Obama, and apparently the people surrounding and advising him, are malignant narcissists and sociopaths. They are completely and totally self-absorbed (that's the narcissism) and also incapable of feeling any sort of empathy or compassion for other human beings (that is the sociopathy). While our friend Japan is undergoing a monumental catastrophe, Obama golfed and frolicked at a comedy dinner party. He stood by and coldly WATCHED - what they call "closely monitoring" - the situation. Nothing but the most trifling efforts were made to assist. The justification for this was that the Japanese had not ASKED for help. Now that they have asked, the regime response is one of eyerolling. Yes, we're helping, but we really don't WANT to be helping. We're just doing this because we HAVE to. Obama continues to give speeches about utter trivia, such as increasing funding to afterschool programs and anti-bullying initiatives and, even more insultingly, is giddily recording an entire ESPN special dedicated to the unveiling of his NCAA tournament bracket today. The level of emotional disconnect and black-hole proportioned self-absorption is beyond description or quantification. And one more thing: it is terrifying. This quality of total emotional disconnect and utter self-absorption has been universally observed in all of the tyrants, dictators and despots of history. They surround themselves not with friends, but with enablers, enforcers and hangers-on.
The true test of the mettle of a man, or a nation, is how he treats his friends.
God help us all.
"A faithful friend is a strong defence, and he that hath found him hath found a treasure." Ecclesiasticus 6:14
http://www.barnhardt.biz/ (http://www.barnhardt.biz/)
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I too had that same thought Trap, it seems really hard to find accurate info on what is going on. Between government caution and media frenzy there is an awful lot of noise to fight through. Not as bad as Katrina yet, but if this keeps up much longer it could be.
And dead on about France being more helpful, I never thought I would see the day where the leader of the free world was based in Paris, but thanks to this Regime...our friends are largely abandoned and our enemies embraced.
And that is a good post Charles, really nails the abandonment of friends angle!
These proglodytes really make it extremely difficult to have pride in your nation, don't they?!
::cussing::
::mooning::
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I think we're seeing how he treats his friends.
It's how he treats our friends that's the problem.
Israel, now Japan.
The only real democratic movement in the Mid East in Iran.
I hate to say Mubarak was a friend but he helped our interests
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I think we're seeing how he treats his friends.
It's how he treats our friends that's the problem.
Israel, now Japan.
The only real democratic movement in the Mid East in Iran.
I hate to say Mubarak was a friend but he helped our interests
Why should we expect Stymie to treat our friends and allies any better than he treats us ? He's very "democratic" in that he ignores everyone equally .
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Main headline seen on Drudge at this hour:
Japan To U.S.: Help!
Which makes me wonder, "Do they really know who is currently running the show over here?" Maybe they are so overcome with stress and exhaustion that they think GWB is still in charge. They need to call France. The cheese eating surrender monkeys have a better chance of answering the call than Toonces.
(http://www.moonbattery.com/obama_vacation_4.jpg)
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Does anyone think that maybe, just maybe, if one of the world's most technologically advanced, responsible and peaceful countries is having a wee bit of trouble with their nuclear energy program that there might be a very real problem with allowing Iran into this fraternity?
Because that's the argument posed by Iran's enablers, Russia and China, that Iran needs a nuke program for the peaceful production of energy for its people. Certainly we know that the real reason is that Iran wants to possess nuclear weapons. Or at least the more intellectually honest among us can say that. Our spineless diplomatic corps has, though, allowed this argument to be used by Iran's enablers. And now that just about the worst thing imaginable is occurring in Japan can the world allow anyone in the middle east to pursue a nuclear energy program? Time will tell but my money would be on the stupid choice.
How can you possibly allow an Iranian nuclear power program after this situation in Japan? How can you make the argument that the Iranians can trusted with the safe operation of a nuclear reactor?
If only we were a world leader. If only we had an even average president and an even average secretary of state. The world is in crisis. Our nation is in crisis. And we long for the B team.
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Yeah, if only...
::falldownshocked::
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Why do the leftists want us to allow Iran to have nukes
while
at the same time
trying to keep us from utilizing nuclear power plants for our energy?
Does anyone have any question as to the 'targets' of an iran nuke?
I think that Iran could cause more damage to us and our allies,
than any of our nuclear power plants.
just saying......
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Define "damage". Duh Wun and his merry band of thugs have their own idea of damage and the withholding of cheap, reliable and abundant energy is the plan.
We are, after all, deemed by them to be able to absorb in certain level of terrorist "damage".
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Define "damage". Duh Wun and his merry band of thugs have their own idea of damage and the withholding of cheap, reliable and abundant energy is the plan.
We are, after all, deemed by them to be able to absorb in certain level of terrorist "damage".
I was thinking that an Iran nuke or dirty bomb setoff in the US or Israel would be more damaging than the damage a nuclear power plant would cause, especially with all the safety engineering that is available.
let me say it another way,
from a statistical probability,
which is the most likely to occur?
1 - a nuclear blast from an Iran Nuke (dirty of otherwise)...(if we allow iran to acquire weapon grade status)?
or
2 - a nuclear power plant accident?
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Define "damage". Duh Wun and his merry band of thugs have their own idea of damage and the withholding of cheap, reliable and abundant energy is the plan.
We are, after all, deemed by them to be able to absorb in certain level of terrorist "damage".
I was thinking that an Iran nuke or dirty bomb setoff in the US or Israel would be more damaging than the damage a nuclear power plant would cause, especially with all the safety engineering that is available.
let me say it another way,
from a statistical probability,
which is the most likely to occur?
1 - a nuclear blast from an Iran Nuke (dirty of otherwise)...(if we allow iran to acquire weapon grade status)?
or
2 - a nuclear power plant accident?
I'd say, definitely, an Iranian nuke, of course.
My previous response was truthful irony.
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Define "damage". Duh Wun and his merry band of thugs have their own idea of damage and the withholding of cheap, reliable and abundant energy is the plan.
We are, after all, deemed by them to be able to absorb in certain level of terrorist "damage".
I was thinking that an Iran nuke or dirty bomb setoff in the US or Israel would be more damaging than the damage a nuclear power plant would cause, especially with all the safety engineering that is available.
let me say it another way,
from a statistical probability,
which is the most likely to occur?
1 - a nuclear blast from an Iran Nuke (dirty of otherwise)...(if we allow iran to acquire weapon grade status)?
or
2 - a nuclear power plant accident?
I'd say, definitely, an Iranian nuke, of course.
My previous response was truthful irony.
But our esteemed leftists must believe just the opposite;
IF
they really have our best interests in their heart of hearts.
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Oy! Radioman!
They do.
They don't.
That's what I was trying to point out.
*Note to self: less cryptic irony
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Oy! Radioman!
They do.
They don't.
That's what I was trying to point out.
*Note to self: less cryptic irony
Oh no, I know how you think, I was just using your irony to bounce off of. :)
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Oy! Radioman!
They do.
They don't.
That's what I was trying to point out.
*Note to self: less cryptic irony
Oh no, I know how you think, I was just using your irony to bounce off of. :)
Ah. ::cool:: Started to feel like we were bouncing in different directions, there.
To put it another way: I believe the Regime wants to damage us in any way possible, using every avenue possible, and that they don't believe they'll suffer from any of the fallout.
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Oy! Radioman!
They do.
They don't.
That's what I was trying to point out.
*Note to self: less cryptic irony
Oh no, I know how you think, I was just using your irony to bounce off of. :)
Ah. ::cool:: Started to feel like we were bouncing in different directions, there.
To put it another way: I believe the Regime wants to damage us in any way possible, using every avenue possible, and that they don't believe they'll suffer from any of the fallout.
That latter part outta turn everyone's poop white! ::speechless::
Can people this delusional be expected to act reasonably in any situation? ::speechless::
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Does anyone think that maybe, just maybe, if one of the world's most technologically advanced, responsible and peaceful countries is having a wee bit of trouble with their nuclear energy program that there might be a very real problem with allowing Iran into this fraternity?
Because that's the argument posed by Iran's enablers, Russia and China, that Iran needs a nuke program for the peaceful production of energy for its people. Certainly we know that the real reason is that Iran wants to possess nuclear weapons. Or at least the more intellectually honest among us can say that. Our spineless diplomatic corps has, though, allowed this argument to be used by Iran's enablers. And now that just about the worst thing imaginable is occurring in Japan can the world allow anyone in the middle east to pursue a nuclear energy program? Time will tell but my money would be on the stupid choice.
How can you possibly allow an Iranian nuclear power program after this situation in Japan? How can you make the argument that the Iranians can trusted with the safe operation of a nuclear reactor?
If only we were a world leader. If only we had an even average president and an even average secretary of state. The world is in crisis. Our nation is in crisis. And we long for the B team.
Good point. IIRC Iran had an earthquake just a few years back that killed something like 75,000 people. It wasn't so much that the quake was bad, but that their cesspool 3rd world construction infrastructure was incapable of dealing with the quake. Even IF they only had peaceful nuclear power ambitions, their joke of a culture has not demonstrated the ability to begin dealing with the responsibility.
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Giving nuke tech to 7th century clowns? What could go wrong? /
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...IIRC Iran had an earthquake just a few years back that killed something like 75,000 people. It wasn't so much that the quake was bad, but that their cesspool 3rd world construction infrastructure was incapable of dealing with the quake. Even IF they only had peaceful nuclear power ambitions, their joke of a culture has not demonstrated the ability to begin dealing with the responsibility.
So my casualty number recollection was off a bit. But the magnitude of the quake was even less than I had remembered... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Bam_earthquake)
The 2003 Bam earthquake was a major earthquake that struck Bam and the surrounding Kerman province of southeastern Iran at 1:56 AM UTC (5:26 AM Iran Standard Time) on Friday, December 26, 2003. The most widely accepted estimate for the magnitude of the earthquake is a moment magnitude (Mw) of 6.6; estimated by the United States Geological Survey. The earthquake was particularly destructive, with the death toll amounting to 26,271 people and injuring an additional 30,000. The effects of the earthquake were exacerbated by the use of mud brick as the standard construction medium; many of the area's structures did not comply with earthquake regulations set in 1989.
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Middle Eastern culture is not so big on maintenance either.
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Middle Eastern culture is not so big on maintenance either.
They're SUPER good at evil though.
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Middle Eastern culture is not so big on maintenance either.
They're SUPER good at evil though.
Everybody's gotta be good at somethin'.
.
I guess.
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Saw this earlier, considering Trap's and preceding comments the following post is appropriate.
A meditation on Friendship
Posted by Ann Barnhardt - March 15, AD 2011 11:53 AM MST
What is a friend? There are many, many ways to define friendship. One universally applicable definition leaps into my mind today, March 15th. A friend could be defined as someone who will help you when you are in need of help. Furthermore, a friend is someone who not only WILL help, but WANTS to help. A friend WANTS to be burdened. A friend WANTS to be inconvenienced. A friend WANTS to be bothered and put-upon. Not only that, but if a suffering person does NOT reveal their suffering to their friend, the friend will actually feel rejected and hurt for not being entrusted, nay GIFTED, with the opportunity to share in the suffering. This is where we get the word "compassion". "Com" means "with". "Passion" means "suffer". Friends want to suffer with their friends. As we go through life and we choose our friends, are we not subconsciously saying to ourselves, "Yes, THIS is a person whom I would want to share my sufferings with - and I would want to share in theirs." We make this determination based upon our perception of the moral character and interior goodness of the individual. The finer the character of the person, the deeper their goodness and the stronger their faith, the more "co-suffering" they will be able to bear with us, and thus the less likely they will be to abandon us in our times of need. And selfish though it may seem, every human being is, at the end of it all, trying desperately to avoid finding themselves abandoned.
Japan has formally asked for the help of the United States. The fact is, the request should never have needed to be made. Japan is our friend. Something horrible happened to them. We should have immediately presented ourselves and all of our tactical assets to them within a matter of minutes. "What do you need? What can we do? YOU ARE NOT ALONE. WE ARE GOING TO STAY WITH YOU AND HELP YOU THROUGH THIS - NO MATTER WHAT." Really, the most important point is not the actual, tactical assistance in and of itself - although in this case that is certainly important. The main point is just making sure that they know that we are there with them - making our real presence known to them, so to speak. Because sometimes that is the only thing of comfort that can be given - presence.
Is Japan perfect? No. 66 years ago Japan was in the grips and clutches of a truly evil spirit. They killed many of our people, and in trying to liberate them from the evil spirit that had infected them, we killed a lot of their people too. And when that mess was finally over and resolved, we picked them up, we dusted them off, showed them how to make cars and TVs, and welcomed them back in friendship. And we have both been the better for it.
Barack Obama, and apparently the people surrounding and advising him, are malignant narcissists and sociopaths. They are completely and totally self-absorbed (that's the narcissism) and also incapable of feeling any sort of empathy or compassion for other human beings (that is the sociopathy). While our friend Japan is undergoing a monumental catastrophe, Obama golfed and frolicked at a comedy dinner party. He stood by and coldly WATCHED - what they call "closely monitoring" - the situation. Nothing but the most trifling efforts were made to assist. The justification for this was that the Japanese had not ASKED for help. Now that they have asked, the regime response is one of eyerolling. Yes, we're helping, but we really don't WANT to be helping. We're just doing this because we HAVE to. Obama continues to give speeches about utter trivia, such as increasing funding to afterschool programs and anti-bullying initiatives and, even more insultingly, is giddily recording an entire ESPN special dedicated to the unveiling of his NCAA tournament bracket today. The level of emotional disconnect and black-hole proportioned self-absorption is beyond description or quantification. And one more thing: it is terrifying. This quality of total emotional disconnect and utter self-absorption has been universally observed in all of the tyrants, dictators and despots of history. They surround themselves not with friends, but with enablers, enforcers and hangers-on.
The true test of the mettle of a man, or a nation, is how he treats his friends.
God help us all.
"A faithful friend is a strong defence, and he that hath found him hath found a treasure." Ecclesiasticus 6:14
http://www.barnhardt.biz/ (http://www.barnhardt.biz/)
I gotta laugh...This was the guy elected who was gonna change the worlds perception of the United States Of America.....
Well, I guess you could say he has been one gigantic success..... ::laughonfloor::
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Which makes me wonder, "Do they really know who is currently running the show over here?" Maybe they are so overcome with stress and exhaustion that they think GWB is still in charge. They need to call France. The cheese eating surrender monkeys have a better chance of answering the call than Toonces.
And dead on about France being more helpful, I never thought I would see the day where the leader of the free world was based in Paris, but thanks to this Regime...our friends are largely abandoned and our enemies embraced.
Plus, the world's best and most experienced nuclear energy technicians and engineers are French. Yes, we invented the technology; but we have since then allowed the French to lap us because they had the will to embrace nuclear energy and we didn't. Their reactor designs are a generation or two ahead of ours. Thank the luddite enviro-marxists.
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Yeah, good point on the French designs. Now with those thorium designs, looks like the ChiCom's will leap past us as well!
Damn Luddite enviro-Marxists!
::laserkill::
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This afternoon, Gregory Jaczko, U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commissioner, said that the spent fuel rod pool atop reactor 4 had run dry.
That turned out not to be correct. If it happened there would be a massive release of lethal radiation.
Now go to this Market Ticker thread (http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=182380&page=7) and read the comments about Jaczko on pages 7 & 8. They start with commenter Head4hills about 1/3 of the way down page 7.
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Fox just reported that the Japanese power company has almost completed a power line to turn the pumps on at the generators to cool the rods.
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Fox just reported that the Japanese power company has almost completed a power line to turn the pumps on at the generators to cool the rods.
Yeah, I saw that at Ace of Spades around noon.
And I left a comment about it on page 5 of the Market Ticker thread I just linked.
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This afternoon, Gregory Jaczko, U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commissioner, said that the spent fuel rod pool atop reactor 4 had run dry.
That turned out not to be correct. If it happened there would be a massive release of lethal radiation.
Now go to this Market Ticker thread (http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=182380&page=7) and read the comments about Jaczko on pages 7 & 8. They start with commenter Head4hills about 1/3 of the way down page 7.
So, US NRC clown, another typical Obama appointee with an anti-nuke agenda who never held a real job in his entire life is hyping the situation for political gain?! No! I don't believe it! That is so out of character for this Admi...Obama would never do some...the American people wouldn't...How can...But...
::falldownshocked::
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The latest from World Nuclear News: (http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Attempts_to_refill_fuel_ponds_1703111.html)
Attempts to refill fuel ponds
17 March 2011
A struggle is underway to maintain cooling of used nuclear fuel at Fukujima Daiichi 3 and 4. Helicopters have been making water drops and fire trucks are being prepared.
While unit 3 was in operation when the earthquake struck on 11 March, and has been in trouble since the tsunami took out emergency diesel generators, unit 4 was fully shut down at that time and had appeared to remain safe until 16 March when an explosion led to fires.
The explosion at unit 4 is thought to have been from a build-up of hydrogen in the area near the used nuclear fuel pond. It severely damaged the building, as well as that of adjacent unit 3, which which it shares a central control room.
Now the situation of the cooling ponds is the priority of authorities. Containing highly radioactive heat generating nuclear fuel, they require an adequate level of water to be maintained as well as pumped circulation to control water temperature. The presence of hydrogen as well as high levels of radiation in unit 4 strongly indicate that fuel is uncovered and suffering damage in the pond.
Efforts to inject water to unit 4's pond were called off at 2pm on 16 March. In the previous two days the temperature of the pond had been 84ºC but no more recent data is available.
With such serious damage to the reactor buildings it is thought that radiation from further degradation of stored fuel at units 3 and 4 would be released to the environment unchecked.
Two army helicopters made four attempts to drop seawater on unit 3, but this did not appear accurate enough to be effective. Tepco said in a news conference that radiation readings had dropped from 3.780 millisieverts to 3.752 millisieverts, so the effect at present seems marginal at best.
Eleven high pressure fire trucks are being prepared, but their operation requires the removal of some heavy debris on the ground from the various explosions the plant has suffered during its degradation over the last six days.
Researched and written
by World Nuclear News
Before too long a book will be written about this. It will be an epic saga of heroism and a nail-biting thriller. It will undoubtedly be a best-seller.
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There was a lot of heroism at Chernobyl too. Lots of those soldiers, pilots, and firemen knew they were on a suicide mission. Still others were unknowingly exposed to radiation.
I can't imagine the mental process of willingly going into a high radiation zone like that. There's only so much protection afforded by suits.
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I'm still confident that they can get this thing under control. It's certainly worse than Three Mile Island, but it's an order of magnitude better than Chernobyl.
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I'm about to go to bed, but if anyone wants to follow this, Ace of Spades (http://minx.cc/?post=313452) continues to be an excellent source.
346 And another thing just dawned on me. They aren't saying if the radiation is alpha, beta or gamma. But there was a report that the helicopters that dropped the water had lead shielding on the decks to protect the crew. That would imply gamma rays because the skin of the helicopter would shield against alpha and beta.
Giving a radiation level doesn't mean much by itself because if it is mostly alpha rays, a bunny suit will shield against it. If it is gamma rays, then only lead is going to shield you (or a bunch of concrete).
Posted by: crosspatch at March 17, 2011 01:42 AM (ZbLJZ)
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Chernobyl had the sort of design flaws that are endemic to a secretive, authoritarian society where there is no public oversight (i.e., what the Democrats yearn for here). It literally blew its top, and it had no outer containment vessel. The core was directly exposed to open air, and putting water on it just made it worse.
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There was a rather decent book written about Chernobyl that came out not too long after the accident. It is a docudrama style novel because, at the time it was written, there were many details not known due to the paranoid secrecy of the USSR. Since then, quite a bit of factual stuff has come to life and a trip to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster) is worth a look.
But, that said, the novel is very well written and gives a lot of human dimension to the accident...the mistakes made, the heroes, the effects of intense radiation and the aftermath. The book is available here. (http://www.amazon.com/CHERNOBYL-NOVEL-Bantam-Spectra-Book/dp/0553271938/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1300342430&sr=8-1) It's quite good and I have read it at least twice.
There is something to be said for people who, knowing that they will be condemned to a very early and very painful death, stood up and did very valiant things so that others could survive, so that a larger tragedy could be averted.
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There was a story or movie about the heroism of Russian sailors who were on a nuclear submarine (K-19) and suffered an accident. They knew they would all die if somebody did not do something that would involve certain death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_K-19 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_K-19)
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FWIW. The World Health Organization tonight announced that the radiation spread in Japan is localized and not harmful to human health. (http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2011/03/who-japan-nuclear-radiation-is-localized-not-a-threat-to-human-health/)
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Ann Coulter's column this week talks about radiation:
http://www.anncoulter.com/ (http://www.anncoulter.com/)
Every day Americans pop multivitamins containing trace amount of zinc, magnesium, selenium, copper, manganese, chromium, molybdenum, nickel, boron -- all poisons.
They get flu shots. They'll drink copious amounts of coffee to ingest a poison: caffeine. (Back in the '70s, Professor Cohen offered to eat as much plutonium as Ralph Nader would eat caffeine -- an offer Nader never accepted.)
But in the case of radiation, the media have Americans convinced that the minutest amount is always deadly.
My pet radiation peeve? Irradiated food. This has been proven to kill bacteria, allow a much longer shelf life, and be more healthy for a number of reasons. But the sheeple, led by the ignorant pseudo intellectual anti-nuke activists don't want their food to get even five feet away from radiation.
Here is an example of what I be talkin bout:
http://www.organicconsumers.org/Irrad/irradfact.cfm (http://www.organicconsumers.org/Irrad/irradfact.cfm)
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We're all gonna die!
Well, duh...eventually!
::facepalm::
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FWIW. The World Health Organization tonight announced that the radiation spread in Japan is localized and not harmful to human health. (http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2011/03/who-japan-nuclear-radiation-is-localized-not-a-threat-to-human-health/)
Boy, it sure did make for an "exciting" few days worth of news cycles though, didn't it? A whole new generation was introduced to the term "meltdown" in relation to something other than Lindsey Lohan or Charlie Sheen.
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Stupid WHO, just caused the MFM rating to...er...drop...uhh...drop even more...
They'll try to reassert their phony relevancy by drumming up another bogeyman! You watch!
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Fox just had on an expert that says that time is on the side of the Japanese because radiation will drop steadily. The cooling rods were the original problem but you can cool them with a 3/4 inch hose. The main problem will be solved when they can get the reactor pumps on again and it looks like that will be real soon?Whatever that means.
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from BAS #44 link
At the Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine in Boulder, people pay $5 to descend 85 feet into an old mining pit to be irradiated with more than 400 times the EPA-recommended level of radon. In the summer, 50 people a day visit the mine hoping for relief from chronic pain and autoimmune disorders.
On Beck the other day: The first first responder, a fireman with no hazmat, at Chernobyl is still alive. I think we have a lot to learn. NASA has secrets.
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There's so much damned information coming out that it's just a mass of confusion.Nobody know who or WTF is to be believed. ::gaah::
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Compare and contrast:
Daily Mail: The moment nuclear plant chief WEPT as Japanese finally admit that radiation leak is serious enough to kill people (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367684/Nuclear-plant-chief-weeps-Japanese-finally-admit-radiation-leak-kill-people.html)
Boiled dry: This shot shows of the inside of reactor number four at the Fukushima nuclear plant before the disaster. The spent fuel storage pool is seen at the front of the shot. The rods are at the bottom of the pool, which has now boiled dry
World Nuclear News: Spraying continues at Fukushima Daiichi (http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Spraying_continues_at_Fukushima_Daiichi_1803111.html)
Over the last few days concern had mounted over the water levels in the used fuel cooling ponds of units 3 and 4. Operations to drop water from army helicopters had little effect, but the flights allowed Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco) engineers a glimpse of the fuel ponds. It was thought that at least some water could be seen in unit 4, and the decision was taken to focus spraying on unit 3.
So which is it?
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WNN also has what is the most detailed timeline of events I've seen so far:
Insight to Fukushima engineering challenges (http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Insight_to_Fukushima_engineering_challenges_1803112.html)
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Take the Spent Fuel Pool quiz. (http://www.microsimtech.com/sfpquiz/default.htm)
I'm embarrassed to say how I did. Not well.
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Take the Spent Fuel Pool quiz. (http://www.microsimtech.com/sfpquiz/default.htm)
I'm embarrassed to say how I did. Not well.
Dang. 27%
Pitiful
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The astounding part of this is that during such a disaster you have lots of available energy in the form of steam pressure you don't want in the plant. Why someone didn't consider this and include an emergency steam turbine sufficient to run the high-pressure feedwater and circulation pumps to a heat exchanger that could dump the heat, completely without electrical power, is beyond me. Such a system would require nothing other than physical plant integrity to be maintained, could be designed as a purely mechanical system with no reliance on electrical power, and would have avoided all of the core damage.
I think it would depend on the volume of steam available as to whether it would be feasable. It would take quite a bit of steam to run pumps long enough to circulate the volume needed for an extended period of time.
While I've never worked in the nuclear field, I did score a 47% on the test. I was shocked I did that well. ::newyear::
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No point in me taking that quiz. I have no idea what the terminology means.
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The astounding part of this is that during such a disaster you have lots of available energy in the form of steam pressure you don't want in the plant. Why someone didn't consider this and include an emergency steam turbine sufficient to run the high-pressure feedwater and circulation pumps to a heat exchanger that could dump the heat, completely without electrical power, is beyond me. Such a system would require nothing other than physical plant integrity to be maintained, could be designed as a purely mechanical system with no reliance on electrical power, and would have avoided all of the core damage.
I think it would depend on the volume of steam available as to whether it would be feasable. It would take quite a bit of steam to run pumps long enough to circulate the volume needed for an extended period of time.
While I've never worked in the nuclear field, I did score a 47% on the test. I was shocked I did that well. ::newyear::
Actually, plants do have this ability to a limited extent. The turbines' momentum and residual steam pressure can be used to power the cooling pumps in the minute or so gap while the backup generators are coming online. It was testing this function that started off the chain of events that led to the Chernobyl meltdown.
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Yesterday I had a strong sense that they had turned the corner and were starting to get the situation under control. It wasn't based on any hard evidence; it was more of a feeling or educated guess.
Some of the comments in this morning's Ace of Spades (http://minx.cc/?post=313575) thread strongly suggest that's the case:
The information has always been out there. The problem is relying on the worthless MFM to get it to you. They were too busy quoting government jackasses who know nothing and George Soros eco-tards who are hostile to anything other than hard left communism.
Posted by: Vic at March 19, 2011 08:49 AM (M9Ie6)
I expect to see them get offsite power to components at the site today. They got it to the plant yesterday and today they will be rewiring feeds that were taken out by the tsunami.
Since there will be no more "ohm y God the noooklear is melting down we're all gonna die", what I expect to see from the MFM is scare stories about spinach and milk.
LOL, it reminds me of the days when I was a kid and the stories going around about Sr-90 and Cs-137 in the milk at school. All that from above ground atomic testing.
I used to get a lot of free milk until the teachers caught onto the scam.
Posted by: Vic at March 19, 2011 09:12 AM (M9Ie6)
It is good to hear that they have gotten water to the cooling pond on unit 3 and will be working on unit 4 shortly. The other bit of good news is that units 1-3 are all less than 100C, so they have finally turned a corner there. I think that now that they have some power and the right spraying units that this mess will quickly fade from view. The fact that some spinach and milk have some contamination above background isn't unexpected at this point. There is no need to stop buying milk or spinach because the tainted stuff will never make it to market. Cows are great concentrators of bad things like PCBs and low level nasties, but milk is test ten ways from Sunday so you won't be getting them in your cereal.
Lets take the wins and be thankful that there is light at the end of the crisis tunnel.
Posted by: Sandy Salt at March 19, 2011 09:17 AM (VW9Wz)
For all the doom and gloom life is still happening and the appearance of Godzilla is postponed for another day. I wonder if the appointed head of the NRC feels like an ass for being so apocalyptic in his testimony to Congress. I seriously doubt it because just like everyone else in this administration they actually believe there are no consequences for their dumbass behavior, so I doubt we will be seeing any apologies or retractions any time soon.
Posted by: Sandy Salt at March 19, 2011 09:24 AM (VW9Wz)
But go read the rest of the comments there. There's other good stuff there, along with the usual tomfoolery and wiseassery. (I swear, AoS has got to be one of the wittiest places on the internet.)
Vic, Sandy Salt, and some others have been oases of sanity, reason, and good information over the past week.
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I got 53%, and I think half of that was luck.
Now, back to AOS, WORM is active.
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Although the Japan nuclear reactor issue is largely out of the news, replaced by the gross incompetence of our president re Libya, there is still quite a bit going on.
The latest problem for the Japanese has to do with their food supply. It's interesting that the Japanese who were notorious for looking down their noses at imported food (especially rice which, they explained, was a religious issue with them), are now in a position of having to ask for food or starve. Between the tsunami, earthquake and the radiation issue their food (and water) supply has been devastated.
If, and it's still a big if, the radiation issue becomes truly serious then they may be a net food importer for a very, very long time.
About now I am beginning to wonder just how much more misery the Japanese people can endure.
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If, and it's still a big if, the radiation issue becomes truly serious then they may be a net food importer for a very, very long time.
About now I am beginning to wonder just how much more misery the Japanese people can endure.
I was listening to this today as well. There is no food in their stores. People are chopping their houses up for wood. It's snowing and cold.
I suspect they will be ok and once they're on their feet --make our Katrina efforts look even more inept.
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I don't mean to sound like a Pollyanna, but at least it's spring heading towards summer. The situation would be a lot worse if it was fall heading towards winter. That's something, anyway.
Japan has serious debt problems like we do, as well as an aging population. Many young people have left the rural areas for the excitement of the big city. I suspect that some of the small rural towns may never be rebuilt, at least not like they were.
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I suspect that some of the small rural towns may never be rebuilt, at least not like they were.
I think you're probably right about that.