It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => TEOTWAWKI => Topic started by: Libertas on August 26, 2012, 12:51:56 PM
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Hey y'all, on my generator issue again. Wondering what people may have for 6k+ and if you have any recommendations. Gotta get something for the lake and get the electrician in to do the hook ups. We've looked at different stores (Fleet Farm, Northern Tool etc) and models (Powerhorse, NorthStar, Generac and SafeCross has an anti-theft model [?]) and I'm trying to figure out what brand/model is the most efficient, most quiet, most easily secured and most affordable given these considerations. I thought we had a thread about this but I seem to be not finding it. Anyway, this would be a full-time set up using gas power (I lost the debate for a propane unit) for emergency power.
Thanks in advance!
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Hey y'all, on my generator issue again. Wondering what people may have for 6k+ and if you have any recommendations. Gotta get something for the lake and get the electrician in to do the hook ups. We've looked at different stores (Fleet Farm, Northern Tool etc) and models (Powerhorse, NorthStar, Generac and SafeCross has an anti-theft model [?]) and I'm trying to figure out what brand/model is the most efficient, most quiet, most easily secured and most affordable given these considerations. I thought we had a thread about this but I seem to be not finding it. Anyway, this would be a full-time set up using gas power (I lost the debate for a propane unit) for emergency power.
Thanks in advance!
How did you loose the debate on propane? What fuel source does the house have? Why 6K? ( that is as much as my solar array)
You don't need an electrician for this.. its pretty basic stuff you can do yourself for about $100 or less. Depending on what load box is there now it can be as simple as adding a manual interlock ( two breakers locked together, so that only one can be on at a time) .
Don't have a generator myself yet.. want to give the solar a try ( I call for inspection Monday! Finally!) and then figure how much I need to charge the batts.
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I bought from Northern Tools, as a dealer they are honest but will
cut you no slack. It's powered by a Honda, I like that, and it's 6k.
This one was chosen because it has a clean sign wave so as to create
no static for computers or tv. This was an error. For the price differential
I could have purchased a much bigger "common" generator.
6k will not start my well pump. 6k will not start my well pump.
Be sure and know for certain how many watts are necessary to
start your well pump. Also even if it did start my pump it would
be much more convenient to have more watts. If you're thinking
about the folks you might also consider an electric start.
It's easier to buy some 12/2 with a ground, plugs, sockets run them
in the house like extension cords this a clear and separate system which
is also portable. On mine the 220 is split into two 110s. Hammered
a small wooden box and installed a pair of wall sockets side by side.
Out of the box is one of the cords going to the 220 on the generator.
Edit to add: generators are not like gas engines, you cannot coax or
tweak a little more out of them and that rating is the best, on a good
day, achievable maximum; you want some slack.
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6k will not start my well pump. 6k will not start my well pump.
What size pump do you have, Charles? I've used a 5kw and run our 3/4 hp submersible pump plus all of the electrics in the house except for the stove, a/c, and water heater.
What surprised me was how much electricity a microwave and coffee pot use.
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I have a one hp, two wire. A two wire takes more than twice the running amps to start it. The upside is it has no points for ants to foul.
You've probably go it timed so the compressors don't start at the same time. ACs and the fridge and the freezer at one time will pull a lot of amps.
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I lost the debate on propane, it's their home so we'll leave it at that.
I don't know how much draw the pump takes, the well is over 100' feet deep so I suspect the pump is drawing quite a bit, but I will look at it on Friday. There is also septic pumps to run as we have not got our outhouse plans executed yet, plus the fridge and freezer. I am sure the water heater and washer would be next. Obviously in a SHTF situation we would not waste fuel on washer and water heater, once the food is used up fridge & freezer would drop off too so that all we would be saving fuel for is to pump fresh water.
I am thinking we may need something in the 9-10k range maybe, and electrical start is a must. I favor something Honda powered since they are reliable engines (my BIL uses various sizes of them all the time) and perhaps the most quiet. Inastallation of the wiring is going to be done by someone my father knows, that debate is over too, and he wants the generator on site before he does his work. I am hoping there is a way I can cage the thing and camoflage it from view.
And since I lost the fuel debate I have to figure out how large/what kind of storage unit to look into and how it can be stabilized to maximize usefullness.
My plate runneth over.
:P
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JF will get here sooner or later but in the meantime it seems
running all the various appliances without concern of overdraw
10k may be short. Pan has knowhow about this also.
My Honda is LOUD, what is bil's secret?
I want to hook mine to an auto muffler
but lack the "howto" from Honda exhaust
manifold to a bigger tailpipe.
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OK, perhaps I shoud rephrase that, none are "quiet" per se, just less loud. BIL uses 1 hp up to 8.5 or something in various applications, run well, he just hates the pull-start mechanism...rope breaking, having to re-wind the sucker and re-install. Has a hirling who does it really well and really quick, but other than that he has not had any mechanical breakdowns after hundreds (perhaps thousands for some) of hours of service. (He hates Briggs & Stratton with a passion, had a lot of issues with them, so he hasn't touched them in years)
I'll try to do a comprehensive review of all draw needs on Friday, there may be some understanding reached as to what should be run or not (even in a temporary main power loss situation).
I'm sure we're looking at a mid-fall completion date for this at the latest so we have some time to get our poop in a group. But all these questions and considerations are helping, we want to be sure we have enough but don't go overboard.
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I lost the debate on propane, it's their home so we'll leave it at that.
I don't know how much draw the pump takes, the well is over 100' feet deep so I suspect the pump is drawing quite a bit, but I will look at it on Friday. There is also septic pumps to run as we have not got our outhouse plans executed yet, plus the fridge and freezer. I am sure the water heater and washer would be next. Obviously in a SHTF situation we would not waste fuel on washer and water heater, once the food is used up fridge & freezer would drop off too so that all we would be saving fuel for is to pump fresh water.
I am thinking we may need something in the 9-10k range maybe, and electrical start is a must. I favor something Honda powered since they are reliable engines (my BIL uses various sizes of them all the time) and perhaps the most quiet. Inastallation of the wiring is going to be done by someone my father knows, that debate is over too, and he wants the generator on site before he does his work. I am hoping there is a way I can cage the thing and camoflage it from view.
And since I lost the fuel debate I have to figure out how large/what kind of storage unit to look into and how it can be stabilized to maximize usefullness.
My plate runneth over.
:P
Do not use electricity to heat anything - certainly not a hot water heater. Some pex tubing, poly, black paint and a little effort will yiled better results
http://www.builditsolar.com/Experimental/PEXColDHW/Overview.htm (http://www.builditsolar.com/Experimental/PEXColDHW/Overview.htm)
I just don't see how you "loose the argument" - The gasoline just won't store. You can put the stablizer in it and it will last for a year or two. Maybe three. But in a big tank you will probably get condensation over time as well, adding water to it. Propane is really what is going to store the longest. I don't see how you loose the argument if TEOTAWAKI is the scenario... I guess not everyone is on board, and they are still planning for the 7 Day outage, not the 7 month to 7 year problem?
They do make Tri-Fuel engines, so maybe that is the way to go? Or go after one of JFs military surplus from the trucks?
Its the initial current draw to get the pump running that is the hurdle - however if the generator is going to power continuous loads like a fridge etc, getting batteries and an inverter is probably a better way to go- that way the gen just runs to charge the batteries - not all of the time, so noise is less of an issue, and you don't have to "turn the fridge/freezer" off for certain periods. Also many inverters have the capacity to give that extra bit of juice. The Outbacks on my PV system support 30 amps continuous, but 70 amps for short bursts for just this sort of thing.
A separate freezer and Fridge will use between 2-4 KW-Hrs a day. A 1 hp pump run for an hour will use .75 kw-hr or so. So say you need 8 Kw-hr a day for lights and other misc use - and you size the battery bank accordingly. Probably about $2000 for the batts, and another $1-3K for the inverter depending on size... Of course, now you are half way to a Solar PV system-- add 8 solar panels or so for another $4000k or so, and the fuel problem goes away, and of course you can suppliment the battery charging with a generator if needed. - Total cost is around $10K with decent batts , but you can deduct 30% of that from the Fed taxes, and other local " make your neighbors subsidize your personal choices" rebates may make it more attractive. No fuel to go bad. No moving parts. Granted, even after the tax deduction, you are still looking at 2-3 times the price of the generator, but unless you plan the run the thing continuously, I just don't see how you keep a fridge/freezer running without batts. And heavan forbid you do shut it down a forget to turn it back on in time and the food thaws.
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Need a lot of solar for that water heater. A deligent person with a well insulated electric may turn it on when needed and then off, same with propane and electronic ignition.
I just don't see how you "loose the argument" -
Sometimes it's the better part. It's not logic it's love.
Its the initial current draw to get the pump running that is the hurdle
Anything with a compressor will draw a minimum of double the running watts.
It is good to check with the manufacturer their answer should be the most accurate. Your well digger should have the best answer for that specific motor.
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Thanks for the info guys, perhaps after some more research I can revisit the debate anew. I'd love to go the solar route, but I know people will be grabbing their chests at the higher outlay, and I am thinking the water heater is a moot issue, if the SHTF bathing/washing will be in/from the lake or with rain water, it is my strong opinion the well should be used for cooking and drinking only. I'll have to come up with a grid I present to everyone, showing each option (w/add on's) and their benefits/limitations, once I complete my research.
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Libertas, I looked all over for the previous generator thread and I can't find it either!
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Good (I'm not imagining it!), bad (where did it go?). Oh well, this one has legs now. ;)
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Good (I'm not imagining it!), bad (where did it go?). Oh well, this one has legs now. ;)
I have a feeling it's around here somewhere, but not findable because of the thread title. That's the trouble with thread-drift; it's interesting the twists and turns a thread may take, but makes finding the desired content problematic later.
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Need a lot of solar for that water heater. A deligent person with a well insulated electric may turn it on when needed and then off, same with propane and electronic ignition.
Electricity is just one of the worst ways to heat anything. If you need hot water, you are better off heating it over a wood fire than using electricity. It is just ridiculously inefficient. A DIY - sun's heat direct to water system is cheap to implement and will work much better. If you do it right, you can set it up to use and alternative source (propane, wood) to supplement the system on cloudy/cold days.
I just don't see how you "loose the argument" -
Sometimes it's the better part. It's not logic it's love.
Its a wonderful to die for love. Know what is better? Living for it. If you are depending on that Generator for water and food storage, "Love" is not a good reason to use gasoline.
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Good (I'm not imagining it!), bad (where did it go?). Oh well, this one has legs now. ;)
I have a feeling it's around here somewhere, but not findable because of the thread title. That's the trouble with thread-drift; it's interesting the twists and turns a thread may take, but makes finding the desired content problematic later.
The archivist, where is the archivist? Sectionhand brought this up some time ago.
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I'm the archivist. And I can't find it ....
Here's the thing (demonstrating thread drift now, observe): in order to keep things in "proper" order, I'd not only have to merge threads, which I do readily but with some trepidation (don't want to offend), I'd have to slice and dice threads as well, also risking giving offense.
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I understand and appreciate. Seems continuity is not a strong suite around here. The search feature also leaves out or skips. I've entered search words that am certain exist and it comes up empty.
As to the Generator Topic, we never had one. We just talk about them often.
Here's a few that may be helpful:
http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,6391.msg71850.html#msg71850 (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,6391.msg71850.html#msg71850)
http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,23.msg56.html#msg56 (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,23.msg56.html#msg56)
http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,23.msg61.html#msg61 (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,23.msg61.html#msg61)
http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,23.msg69.html#msg69 (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,23.msg69.html#msg69)
Scroll to "When I got my first portable generator" I think it's by Soup
http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,2358.msg26728.html#msg26728 (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,2358.msg26728.html#msg26728)
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I learned long ago that if you're gonna have a fire going you oughta have a kettle heating on it. You never know when you need hot water and The heat is already there. In a (long-term) SHTF scenario I would just expand on the basic theme with a more dedicated large-capacity wood fueled boiler.
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Thanks for the info guys, perhaps after some more research I can revisit the debate anew. I'd love to go the solar route, but I know people will be grabbing their chests at the higher outlay,
So what exactly is the disaster scenario your group is trying to address? What standard of living are you aiming for? If it is to survive for 7-30 days, then the gen is the way to go, and gasoline is fine. If the group is trying to provide a longer term/sustainable system and live approximately at today's standards, then I just don't think its the answer. Electric power is not required for human survival. You can get a hand pump ( even for a well 100 feet deep ) ) and use wood for fuel. Food, Water, and Shelter are all priorities over electric power.
Here is a helpful FAQ.. http://www.survivalmonkey.com/pages/generator-faq/ (http://www.survivalmonkey.com/pages/generator-faq/)
Running a generator continuously to power a continuous load like a freezer ( and yes you can judiciously turn it off and on as long as you don't open it and "let the cold out" ) is going to be costly in the long run - way more than the cost of panels.
1) If the TEOTWAWKI event occurs and your group assembles - how many will still have incomes with which to buy fuel for the group? (Savings don't count. Accounts may be frozen, or just wiped out by inflation or currency re-valuation)
2) If the TEOTWAWKI event spikes fuel prices, will your group be able to afford it?
3) If the event makes gasoline unobtainable, how much is your group willing to store and maintain? Is there someone there to use and periodically top off the fuel in the meantime, or is your group fine with chucking 200 Gallons of gas every 2 years?
4) Most generators will use 1/2 gal per hour under no load - depending on how long you want to run it each day, the cost could be prohibitive. Even 4 hours a day is going to be about $2500 yearly at current prices. 4 Years of that and you paid for a PV system.
4) Is the sound of the generator going to create a security issue?
Yes, a Solar PV system is going to run more than $800 for a small gen, or $3000 for a large one. However, its quiet, solid state ( meaning slower wear and tear, and your chance of failure is less) and pays off quickly if your alternative is a gas generator. Theft is more difficult- Panels are bulky and fairly heavy- as are inverters and batteries. Not to mention you have to dismantle the array, cut multiple live wires etc. I got a truck and a buddy. Which do I steal? The Generator which takes 3 minutes to cut the chain, unplug and load on the truck, or the solar system which it takes me an hour to take down and haul off?
I am the first to admit that PV solar is just stupid if you have the grid available and can afford the (still cheap) prices per KW-Hr. However, if you are looking for long term power without the grid- then I don't think you can do better. With cheap Batteries you are looking at 8 years of service before you need to replace them (for current costs of around $2000) - with stupid expensive ( add another $10K ) batteries you will get 20 years. If people are balking at the price, then they aren't serious about having reliable electric power in Teotwawki.
Plus there are lots of ways to scale the PV system down and then grow it.Your system is really limited by the Charge Controller/Inverter - you can start with 1 panels and build up to 8 (or more) - just for the price of the 200 Gallon tank of gas you need to refill every year or two. You can use "Golf Cart" Batteries as your initial set of batts - in the right places, those are $75-100 a piece - buy just the minimum to give you the backup time you need ( most golf cart batts are 200 amp -hrs) - that is around 40 amp-hr useable. In a 24 V system that is about 1KW hr of "backup" - a set of 4 and you are off to the races and can run your freezer. The golf-cart batts will last 3-5 years. So initial outlays can be in the $4-5000 range, to provide provide 2 Kw-Hrs a day - enough to keep that freezer going. Add a new panel or two every year (foreign panels are around $300 (no tax credit) and "American made" panels are $400-500) for about the same cost as you would be putting into the gas tank for storage, and unlike the gas, the panels will keep producing for another 20 years.
I am thinking the water heater is a moot issue, if the SHTF bathing/washing will be in/from the lake or with rain water, it is my strong opinion the well should be used for cooking and drinking only.
If there is a lake, a Berkey filter will be a positive boon. A quasi permanent (outdoor) Shower enclosure with a "Sun Shower" based heater will work fine. Its pretty easy to get hot water from the sun most days- which water you use for that (lake or well) doesn't matter much- getting it pumped to the heating tank however will save a lot of heartache- and that is more load on the electric.
If there is a lake, is there a stream? If so, Hydro power is the answer - It doesn't take much water flow to turn a wheel and charge a battery.
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I understand and appreciate. Seems continuity is not a strong suite around here. The search feature also leaves out or skips. I've entered search words that am certain exist and it comes up empty.
As to the Generator Topic, we never had one. We just talk about them often.
Here's a few that may be helpful:
http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,6391.msg71850.html#msg71850 (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,6391.msg71850.html#msg71850)
http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,23.msg56.html#msg56 (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,23.msg56.html#msg56)
http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,23.msg61.html#msg61 (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,23.msg61.html#msg61)
http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,23.msg69.html#msg69 (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,23.msg69.html#msg69)
Scroll to "When I got my first portable generator" I think it's by Soup
http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,2358.msg26728.html#msg26728 (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,2358.msg26728.html#msg26728)
http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,23.msg56.html#msg56 (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,23.msg56.html#msg56)
That's it! That's the thread I was looking for and I bet it's the one Libertas remembered as well. It's a mess of a thread because I was importing posts from IAF, in a hurry and without knowing a better way to get it done.
I'm pinning that sucker. Thanks, CO.
BTW, wonder what happened to Nolan? I liked him.
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Would it be expensive for us to have our own server?
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Yup, that thread rings some bells, gonna scour that in depth tonight! ::whoohoo::
As to Weisshaupts point I am stuck trying to be King Solomon and split the baby in half...we (most siblings and BIL) want as long a term solution as possible for life after grid collapse, my folks are wanting that but also want to get by when power is just interreupted and there is limited funding - they have their fixed income and we have discreationary income of which there is not much. We've spent a lot on other/smaller stuff, what is left if bigger ticket stuff and getting everybody to agree is tough. We are looking into a hand pump on a second well, and most of us have thought out your 5 points, most are aware, how ready everyone is I have my doubts...I've been pushing for more work on the non-financial "planning & scenario/option" stuff while we are saving up for our next purchases...it's hard to get everybody on the same page for a lot of things and upping the up front costs can have people shut down and run off screaming "I can't handle this right now"...OK not everybody does that but there is a saturation point for people and for those with kids and new grandkids and activities galore getting people to act on stuff can be tough. And talking about firearms and self0defense of any kind sends my SIL into her room, she'll just stay home and wait to die when the SHTF, she has no desire to live in a crashed society. We have plans to use lake as best we can, no stream, I had fancy dreams of building a sort of Archimedian screw to create flow for power generation but I might just be pulling that idea out my ass. We have a number of grills we can burn wood in as well as the fire pit I built, and thanks to last years storm (and our own woods) we have a lot of wood to burn, how many years it would last I dunno. I'm doing the best I can and doing everything but grabbing noses and kicking butts...which might feel good but get me absolutely nowhere with this group and quite likely set me back.
-Sisyphus
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Yup, that thread rings some bells, gonna scour that in depth tonight! ::whoohoo::
As to Weisshaupts point I am stuck trying to be King Solomon and split the baby in half...we (most siblings and BIL) want as long a term solution as possible for life after grid collapse, my folks are wanting that but also want to get by when power is just interreupted and there is limited funding - they have their fixed income and we have discreationary income of which there is not much. We've spent a lot on other/smaller stuff, what is left if bigger ticket stuff and getting everybody to agree is tough. We are looking into a hand pump on a second well, and most of us have thought out your 5 points, most are aware, how ready everyone is I have my doubts...I've been pushing for more work on the non-financial "planning & scenario/option" stuff while we are saving up for our next purchases...it's hard to get everybody on the same page for a lot of things and upping the up front costs can have people shut down and run off screaming "I can't handle this right now"...OK not everybody does that but there is a saturation point for people and for those with kids and new grandkids and activities galore getting people to act on stuff can be tough. And talking about firearms and self0defense of any kind sends my SIL into her room, she'll just stay home and wait to die when the SHTF, she has no desire to live in a crashed society. We have plans to use lake as best we can, no stream, I had fancy dreams of building a sort of Archimedian screw to create flow for power generation but I might just be pulling that idea out my ass. We have a number of grills we can burn wood in as well as the fire pit I built, and thanks to last years storm (and our own woods) we have a lot of wood to burn, how many years it would last I dunno. I'm doing the best I can and doing everything but grabbing noses and kicking butts...which might feel good but get me absolutely nowhere with this group and quite likely set me back.
-Sisyphus
It's the truth, Libs. One can only do so much working with people who are not totally on the same page and with limited funds. Ya takes what ya can gets.
I *think* my mother and I are on the same page and then something she says has me realize her idea of "stocked up" and mine are vastly different.
My brother was supposed to get a guy to replace the folks' breaker box/panel so we could work on getting them a generator, but no progress on that front due to his heart problems. So .... I have to nag gently via long distance.
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We are looking into a hand pump on a second well, and most of us have thought out your 5 points, most are aware, how ready everyone is I have my doubts...
A Second Well? Round here that is a 20K hole and it might come up dry- even 20 ft from a working hole. This can probably share the current well casing - http://www.simplepump.com/OUR-PUMPS/Hand-Operated.html (http://www.simplepump.com/OUR-PUMPS/Hand-Operated.html) - It also isn't cheap, but way cheaper than a second well.
I have a buddy having the same issues with his family - which include an Aunt he deeply loves, who is marrying a useless drunk, a step-father whose plan is to die before SHTF, and his mother who is for the most part on-board, but paralyzed by doubt and the reluctance of other family members. His parents have a huge Ranch with a river a mile away - plentiful game, good farming and pasture. - but they aren't doing anything to prep it. He started on his own with a smaller place and went in with his Aunt, but the Drunk is F'ing up that situation so bad he is ready to bail on it and start over.
I have a doctor in my group - he bought a place near mine, but has done nothing ( 0, nada, zip- not even spent the weekend) since.
Not taking it seriously- for sure.
Of course, my immediate family, being liberal , is out of the picture from the get go- and the more I learn the more it seems a blessing. I am trying to get this buddy to throw in with us - but it means "giving up" on his family and he understandably isn't ready to "go there" yet. ( I told them we can plan to have them join him.. but Colo isn't "home") Bottom line, the best people to prep with may not be your family - or at least not all of it. No one wants to admit it, but triage is a process that is and must be on the table. As I said to CO, dying for Love isn't the best plan. None of us are ready, and won't be till after the event occurs - because there are so many unknowns in how this will go down. I am a cold, logical heartless bastard. I just do the math. Conservatives are supposed to concentrate on the unpleasant things in images- well I do that in spades. I may not be happy, but my eyes are open. Our society has created a number of individuals who just won't (can't) accept that tough choices are going to have to be made, and if you wait for them to "come around" you will be waiting literally until doomsday.
You need to get the willing people into the room, discuss what scenarios you are planning for (we are not prepping for an EMP for instance), what you are leaving to chance, and what the plan is, what priorities are, and then you can then decide how to pay for it. Write it all down - family or no, writing keeps things from "changing" --at least without agreement. If its $50 a month from each person, then that is what it is and you proceed as quickly as you can at that pace- you may even want to make this part of your C-Corporation... If someone "comes around" and wants to join the pact- that is another $50 a month and maybe a late joiner fee- but the plan don't change. They are lucky that you are allowing them to "join" - stipulate shares and specify how things will be liquidated if the partnership breaks up, and under what circumstances that can be - ( an individual leaving gets nothing) a vote of half of the members results in liquidation - or whatever. It won't prevent problems, but at least there is an agreed to method of dealing with them.
Ideally you have both a Gen AND a PV system. If the group decides that the Gen comes first (and it probably should, because a 7 day outage is way more likely than a 2 year outage) - then it comes first - but that purchase is made with an eye to the long term plan- i.e. supplementing a PV system in a long term situation - and that probably DOES NOT mean gas. Diesel or Propane, and only enough to run the Absolute minimum people are willing to accept.
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You need to get the willing people into the room, discuss what scenarios you are planning for (we are not prepping for an EMP for instance), what you are leaving to chance, and what the plan is, what priorities are, and then you can then decide how to pay for it.
I don't think true viable crews will be formed until after the event.
Write it all down - family or no, writing keeps things from "changing" --at least without agreement.
!!!
Getting the folks squared away for some short term storm outage and a long term event are two separate items, if part of the short term may be used for dual purpose, all to the good.
EMP bugs me. There is very little prep discussion and it would be so easy
for Ima DinnerJacket fire a scud from a freighter and turn out our lights or a
Chinaman writing some hot code and doing the same. At that time he who
has a generator would rule......if it would run.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_fuel-transfer-lubrication+fuel-transfer-storage+fuel-caddies (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_fuel-transfer-lubrication+fuel-transfer-storage+fuel-caddies)
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You've probably go it timed so the compressors don't start at the same time. ACs and the fridge and the freezer at one time will pull a lot of amps.
I don't time them, the fridge kicks on more frequent than the freezer.
Also, for heating water with a gen, remember you have free heat. In the oilfield we call it waste heat recovery. The generator exhaust will get water nice and toasty.
I've only done it with some gallon jugs next to the gen, but it works really well.
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!!!
That would go well with my concept of a larger and longer exhaust pipe.
Edit: or the exhaust pipe pointed up and a vessel (galvanized well water tank)
mounted above it.
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Yeah, I don't have a raging drunk in the family gumming up the works...yet...it could be me if I get tired of banging my head! ::beertoast:: ::hysterical::
And because of my professional financial background, history of being family invenstment advisor and go-to economic forecaster...I am the treasurer for our little "disaster fund"...after splurging on food, gear, supplies, rain barrels, heorloom seeds yadda yadda yadda...the economy has taken its toll and contributions have slowed to barely a trickle...I get the high honor and priveldge of haranging people...and what really torks me off is the older niece/nephew not contributing squat (and no doubt expecting to share the BOL benefits...I know splitting 1 "share" of resources 7 ways will suck for them, but either that or we all subsidize the freeloaders...ya'll can guess where I come down, and since I have most the guns and ammo my "share" speaks louder than most)...
There is definitely too much in the chance/make do category, but I keep pushing priorities and being a PITA!
Gotta make more Faraday cages too, throw various sensitive stuff in there like radios (SW & Ham) maybe some small gen's. I am also trying to think if I could get a big cardboard box I could wrap my cycle in and then wrap with tin foil for something to have something operable should EMP hit.
For fridge/freezer, when power went out at the lake we got by running about 14-16 hours off a portable (forget what size, all it could handle were those two items though) and let sit overnight without opening and it got by OK, and that was in early July and hot.
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There are propane refrigerators.
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Gotta make more Faraday cages too, throw various sensitive stuff in there like radios (SW & Ham) maybe some small gen's. I am also trying to think if I could get a big cardboard box I could wrap my cycle in and then wrap with tin foil for something to have something operable should EMP hit.
No reason to wrap the whole cycle - just buy a spare CPU if it uses one and keep that in a faraday cage ( any conductive metal box) - if it has a carb and no CPU, it should start up no problem-- there really being no real circuits to fry..
However, if an EMP hits it will be devastating. It will wipe out my solar array for sure, and pretty much every CPU in the area, fry transformers, and basically destroy the grid. 3 days later the emergency gens at the phone company, sewage plants and hospitals go. Most cars and trucks won't function, and everyone in the cities will starve or die of disease from raw sewage ( believe me, most people in the cities have no idea they should bury their crap. A common cat has more sense than the city dwellers) Looting and raping will start as soon as folks figure out the problem is bigger than just their city and that Gov help is unlikely. If you have a protected generator , it will last as long as your fuel, and the sound of it running will attract every human for miles. Yeah, you can try to take fuel out of gas station tanks by hand, but that will be the end of that for a while. If you have an EMP proof vehicle - it will be the same thing. You don't dare use it till most everyone else is dead. Of course, by then, whoever attacked us ( even if its North Korea) or just enemy countries will invade - because we just lost 50-80% of the population , the remainder are malnourished and freaked, and there just won't be a gun behind every blade of grass anymore. Its the one scenario where I am not sure its worth surviving.
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I beg to differ. The remaining 20-50% will be those who appreciate
that Remington poster, their generators will be running (make friends
with a welder he probably has a huge miller generator which will power
those gas pumps), well fed, rested and ready.
"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."
Isoroku Yamamoto
Be of good cheer, we are ready.
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I think I posted this link on one of those phantom Genset threads :D
Introducing the redneck Faraday Cage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoQZY1FtI3c
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Yup, got one of those already 'Soup! ::thumbsup::
"A common cat has more sense than the city dwellers" - Weisshaupt. Awesome quip, and so true.
I'll look into the spare CPU for the cycle.
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GENERATOR, 212CC, 2800/3000 EPA
http://www.harborfreight.com/# (http://www.harborfreight.com/#) with coupon $289.99
(http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_20779.jpg)
??
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GENERATOR, 212CC, 2800/3000 EPA
http://www.harborfreight.com/# (http://www.harborfreight.com/#) with coupon $289.99
(http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_20779.jpg)
??
Comments - "I want to make repairs to the Engine mounts. Found out that they no longer carry parts for this unit, BUT they still sell them!!!!"
::)
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Oh hey, I may have made a small breakthrough regarding generator up at the lake, folks are now thinking perhaps propane is the way to go. I am employing gentle enocuragement now to help this thought along.
::whoohoo::
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Good. Persist!
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1) 10KW winco 16 horse Briggs
1) 10KW Pramac 18 horse honda
Love the little guys.
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Here I go again...
Nothing like family to make a liar out of yourself...my determination to "get this done" by last summer (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?topic=10939.msg126510#msg126510) went "poof" faster than a fat man's diet at a buffet line!
Trying to get my family on board in principle and financial support is like...well, trying to herd fricken cats! ::bashing:: ::pullhair::
But, I shall try again. And try, and try...and try. I can be a real stubborn SOB so, either they get totally sick of me or I grind them down and they surrender. Last year I tried logic and reason. This year I will employ fear and more fear...and maybe some anger. Wish me luck!
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Ask em if they'd care to spend a day at home with no power at all -- it's easy to simulate that by just flipping off the main breaker.
In any case, good luck.
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If you get a generator - get one that is a welder. Then you can also weld with it. I still have no good power backup here at the farm.. I want to do PV solar, but I can't afford to that it twice.. so right now it would mean dismantling and moving the system if I need it down here. I want my own weder anyway, and it solves both problems in one go...
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Here I go again...
Nothing like family to make a liar out of yourself...my determination to "get this done" by last summer (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?topic=10939.msg126510#msg126510) went "poof" faster than a fat man's diet at a buffet line!
Trying to get my family on board in principle and financial support is like...well, trying to herd fricken cats! ::bashing:: ::pullhair::
But, I shall try again. And try, and try...and try. I can be a real stubborn SOB so, either they get totally sick of me or I grind them down and they surrender. Last year I tried logic and reason. This year I will employ fear and more fear...and maybe some anger. Wish me luck!
Try shaming them it works well for me. Stay away from Chinese sh*t and Generac. Better a good used American one than a Chinese import. The American stuff always has an after market to support it in a pinch.
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Here I go again...
Nothing like family to make a liar out of yourself...my determination to "get this done" by last summer (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?topic=10939.msg126510#msg126510) went "poof" faster than a fat man's diet at a buffet line!
Trying to get my family on board in principle and financial support is like...well, trying to herd fricken cats! ::bashing:: ::pullhair::
But, I shall try again. And try, and try...and try. I can be a real stubborn SOB so, either they get totally sick of me or I grind them down and they surrender. Last year I tried logic and reason. This year I will employ fear and more fear...and maybe some anger. Wish me luck!
Try shaming them it works well for me. Stay away from Chinese sh*t and Generac. Better a good used American one than a Chinese import. The American stuff always has an after market to support it in a pinch.
::hat-tip::