It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => General Board => Topic started by: Pandora on March 24, 2011, 03:32:42 PM
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Michael Scott points us to Bob Barr highlighting how Homeland Security, in its defense of airport scanners and patdowns, has said that, if it chose to do so, it could strip search every airline passenger (http://blogs.ajc.com/bob-barr-blog/2011/03/18/authority-to-strip-search-passengers-at-will-claimed-by-feds/), without any 4th Amendment scrutiny. I guess it's only out of their own kindness that they've chosen not to do so. Of course, this raises some pretty key Constitutional questions. If the TSA can strip search anyone with no reason at all, then does the 4th Amendment really exist? Yes, courts have said that the basic scanning of airline passengers is Constitutional, but it does not appear to have set any real limits on that scanning. And that's part of the reason why security theater at the airports just keeps ratcheting up.
Link. (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110323/03003713593/homeland-security-says-they-could-strip-search-every-airline-passenger-if-they-wanted-to.shtml)
H/T rayra
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Where are the airports and airlines in all this?
Airports are locally regulated, privately owned, municipal, state, and corporately supported entities that stand to suffer tangible harm every time a passenger decides not to fly because TSA has gone too far. When are the airports and the airlines that support them going to wake up and realize that unless they start taking the side of their customers here, and basically putting their foot down, they are looking as a brick wall of insolvency? Do airports and airlines WANT to be taken over by the federal government?
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They won't stop till there's a killing over it.
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Will it stop then?
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Just eat lots of beans and pickled hard boiled eggs and a warm beer before your flight. IF you must fly.
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and when we all switch to driving I suppose the toll booths will be outfitted with scanners...
frankly, there hasn't been enough outrage over the TSA's actions...
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Where are the airports and airlines in all this?
Airports are locally regulated, privately owned, municipal, state, and corporately supported entities that stand to suffer tangible harm every time a passenger decides not to fly because TSA has gone too far. When are the airports and the airlines that support them going to wake up and realize that unless they start taking the side of their customers here, and basically putting their foot down, they are looking as a brick wall of insolvency? Do airports and airlines WANT to be taken over by the federal government?
I don't know, but they're not making the stink they ought, although I'm not surprised. I'm still waiting (blue, now) for any corporation to finally put its foot down and stand up to them, instead of opting for the crony-"capitalism"/rent-seeking move.
I just came to understand Duke Energy is into cap'n'tax/curly lightbulbs in a big way, to my great disgust, and I suspect my own power supplier, Progress Energy, is just behind.
Cain't stand it.
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Where are the airports and airlines in all this?
Airports are locally regulated, privately owned, municipal, state, and corporately supported entities that stand to suffer tangible harm every time a passenger decides not to fly because TSA has gone too far. When are the airports and the airlines that support them going to wake up and realize that unless they start taking the side of their customers here, and basically putting their foot down, they are looking as a brick wall of insolvency? Do airports and airlines WANT to be taken over by the federal government?
I think you can strike the "privately owned" part out of any airport we are referencing. They are basically state or municipal. At best, they don't give a flying sheite. You want to fly, fly; you don't want to fly take the train. And the airlines are escrewed nine ways to Sunday.
Here's the train, now...0:33
Tex Beneke-Chattanooga Choo Choo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDSHuVAr52Y#)
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I don't know, but they're not making the stink they ought, although I'm not surprised. I'm still waiting (blue, now) for any corporation to finally put its foot down and stand up to them, instead of opting for the crony-"capitalism"/rent-seeking move.
About the only ones who are resisting are the Koch brothers. And the myriads of small businesses who are going Galt. The rest of the big corporations are fully on board with Fascism. The proper definition of Fascism is a seamless, symbiotic relationship between government and the largest businesses, who team up to squeeze out their smaller, weaker competitors. China is also Fascist today, despite their continued use of the symbols of Communism. The Chinese military owns and operates all kinds of businesses.
Mussolini, the lifelong Socialist who essentially invented Fascism, was apparently right. Fascism does indeed seem to be the wave of the future (at the moment). It's sweeping the globe. It's an improved and upgraded version of Socialism. It blends collectivism with cronyism, and empowers and enriches the people at the top while enslaving the rest of us.
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....rest of the big corporations are fully on board with Fascism....
Reading Liberal Fascism right now. Interesting stuff.
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That's a great book.
If I recall correctly, it was published in early 2008. There is a whole chapter about Hillary Clinton, but only a few mentions of Obama. It's clear that Goldberg thought that Hillary was a slam-dunk for the Democrat nomination.
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Indeed, "Fascism does indeed seem to be the wave", or the tidal surge of a hurricane and when it subsides it leaves much debris.
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That's a great book.
My 24 yo daughter read it twice. She's been bugging me for a year to read it. She was home for a visit last week and "made" me get it from the library. LOL Gotta luv carrying around a book with a Hitler-mustached smiley face.
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My 24 yo daughter read it twice. She's been bugging me for a year to read it.
Dang. Too bad I'm more than twice her age. :-[
Maybe there's still hope yet, if the young'uns are reading things like that.
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Where are the airports and airlines in all this?
Airports are locally regulated, privately owned, municipal, state, and corporately supported entities that stand to suffer tangible harm every time a passenger decides not to fly because TSA has gone too far. When are the airports and the airlines that support them going to wake up and realize that unless they start taking the side of their customers here, and basically putting their foot down, they are looking as a brick wall of insolvency? Do airports and airlines WANT to be taken over by the federal government?
Well.....in DC they sure as hell might not be in any control towers.......at least not awake. ::foilhathelicopter::
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Will it stop then?
Sorta depends on who gets kilt and who does the killin... ::whatgives::
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Will it stop then?
Sorta depends on who gets kilt and who does the killin... ::whatgives::
Ride 'em cowboy
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We've discussed this before, this approach is a central pillar in the assault on liberty: the government asserts a range of activities to be voluntary, and he who "voluntarily" partakes in said activity tacitly consents to whatever conditions the government decides to attach to that activity. "No, no, it's not a violation of your Fourth Amendment rights because you're not being forced to submit to searches. If you want to avoid the searches you can choose not to fly (drive/walk/jog/breathe)."
We've allowed the government to run with this line of reasoning for far too long.
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...We've allowed the government to run with this line of reasoning for far too long.
I agree. That's why I ask where the hell are the airports and airlines? One person alone cannot fight a federal bureaucracy at the street level and hope to remain un-incarcerated. It'll take states, municipalities, or industries.
What would the federal government do, if a major hub airport hired its own security tomorrow, de-authorized the security badges of every TSA agent, shut down the scanners, and told the federal government to pound sand? What would the federal government do in that scenario if that state's governor called out the National Guard to protect airport workers from intervention by the Feds, and forbade the federal government from interfering in any way with airport operations, or airport executive management?
What would the federal government do if the states of North Dakota and Montana mounted a joint effort and began issuing drilling permits right now in the Bakken Formation, with workers and execs protected by National Guard?
I think we NEED that type of showdown. The people have done what we can short of violent insurrection, and the federal government continues down the path of tyranny. We need our states, cities, and major infrastructure and institutions to tell the federal government to f*** off, and no, we won't be seeing you in court, because you've got no standing.
That is, after all, no less lawlessness than the federal government is demonstrating against the people of the sovereign states.
::rant::
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There's 30% on the left and 30% on the right and 40% in the middle, 1/2 of the middle goes with the winner and 20% is virtually inert. To achieve that goal movement at least 20% of the middle is necessary. When gas hits $4 and $5 dollars there will be movement. In order to take advantage of this movement plans should be formulated and elements and information pre-positioned now or the energy will be chaotic or directed by our betters.
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I keep waiting for the tipping point...
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss291/libertasinfinitio/Warnings/1290049316.jpg)
The capacity of people in this nation to willingly give up their liberty time after time...frightens and angers me!
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Is that with or without a Wasserman Test ?
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Heh.
Stay tuned SH!
::falldownshocked::
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I keep waiting for the tipping point...
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss291/libertasinfinitio/Warnings/1290049316.jpg)
The capacity of people in this nation to willingly give up their liberty time after time...frightens and angers me!
I can't tell you how many arguments I've had with family over this issue. My husband thinks the searches are reasonable! He's not willing to give up flying though. (It amazes me that he'd be willing to let someone feel up his daughters) When I pointed out that wanting to ride an airplane isn't probable cause he stops talking. Same thing with my brother. He went on and on then I told him what I thought and he admitted I had a point. But he too sees no other choice. My mother is convinced it's only because I don't want anyone touching me so she loves to tell me how the TSA agents she's had are sooo nice to her (she has an implanted med device and must avoid x-rays) and she doesn't have a problem with them (as apparently I do and I should just get over it). She can't address the freedom aspects.
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The capacity of people in this nation to willingly give up their liberty time after time...frightens and angers me!
This is why the default condition of man is tyranny. What was it that Franklin said - "A republic ma'am, if you can keep it."
I think part of our problem is that this country has just become too damn big. Too many people, too different in their expectations. We don't have an informed citizenry so much as a barnyard of humanity. To borrow a reference from the movie Idiocracy, they don't care about the destruction of our civil society as long as "Oww My Balls!" is still on TV.
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I think part of our problem is that this country has just become too damn big. Too many people, too different in their expectations. We don't have an informed citizenry so much as a barnyard of humanity.
Yes, I often think this too. Way too easy for people to melt into their own self absorbed world and concentrate on themselves and their "needs".
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"barnyard of humanity"
Heh, gotta remember that one!
Way past time we clean the barn out!
A good culling is needed in the worst way!
::thumbsup::
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Loved the "barnyard.." description as well.
And this sort of thing is waaaay out of hand. Combine this w/ tha ruling last year that a tracking device can be placed on a car w/ no warrant b/c anybody could walk across your property any way, so cops don't need a warrant. Next thing, they'll be peeking in our windows and telling us we don't have to drive anywhere.