It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => Politics/Legislation/Elections => Topic started by: Libertas on November 13, 2012, 07:19:12 AM
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OK, now we are up to 20 states, might as well start chronicling this movement!
Petitions have been filed for Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/11/12/states-petition-obama-administration-to-secede/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/11/12/states-petition-obama-administration-to-secede/)
Oddly enough, it is getting a log of media attention, not just the blogosphere -
http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/11/white-house-website-deluged-with-secession-petitions-from-19-states/ (http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/11/white-house-website-deluged-with-secession-petitions-from-19-states/)
http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/11/secession-petitions-flood-white-house-website-149291.html (http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/11/secession-petitions-flood-white-house-website-149291.html)
http://www.chron.com/news/article/Texas-secession-petition-grows-on-White-House-4030870.php (http://www.chron.com/news/article/Texas-secession-petition-grows-on-White-House-4030870.php)
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/white-house-may-respond-texas-secession-petition-212328772--election.html (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/white-house-may-respond-texas-secession-petition-212328772--election.html)
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57548572/states-petition-to-secede-from-union/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57548572/states-petition-to-secede-from-union/)
http://midwestdemocracy.com/articles/missouri-residents-petition-white-house-secession/ (http://midwestdemocracy.com/articles/missouri-residents-petition-white-house-secession/)
http://www.prisonplanet.com/white-house-website-deluged-with-secession-petitions-from-20-states.html (http://www.prisonplanet.com/white-house-website-deluged-with-secession-petitions-from-20-states.html)
http://www.redstate.com/jamesmpratt/2012/11/12/republic-of-texas-29000-citizens-sign-white-house-petition-to-secede-from-the-union/ (http://www.redstate.com/jamesmpratt/2012/11/12/republic-of-texas-29000-citizens-sign-white-house-petition-to-secede-from-the-union/)
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/12/15117305-petition-for-texas-to-secede-from-us-reaches-threshold-for-white-house-response?lite (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/12/15117305-petition-for-texas-to-secede-from-us-reaches-threshold-for-white-house-response?lite)
http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/267413-texas-secession-petition-gains-enough-signatures-for-white-house-response (http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/267413-texas-secession-petition-gains-enough-signatures-for-white-house-response)
25k signatures in 30 days require an official response. I like this, it puts a marker down, and the Regime will have to respond. It establishes the first in a chain of events that can be built to make the case that there is half the country that wishes to go another direction, and refusing their right to do so flies in the face of the Declaration. I also like how libiot commenters are daring Obama to call our bluff. It's nice to have allies in a peaceful separation, perhaps some on the Left are not completely deluded as to their prospects in a non-peaceful parting!
::thumbsup::
Looks like more than 20 now, more have been added -
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitions (https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitions)
ETA - TX has enough, can't wait to see wait the Regime says...
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Where do I sign?
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Follow WH link above, you have to register. :P
I like how libiot asswipes are trying to strike back with these petitions to exile/deport/make un-citizens of secessionists! Must be the first time evah they are for exile and deportations! Bloody hypocrites!
::doublebird:: ::mooning::
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Unless states support the efforts of their citizens to throw down this gauntlet, it is meaningless. All signers are accomplishing is registering for whitehouse.gov.
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Certainly I won't disagree with that sentiment, but what are you suggesting as a preamble? A state referendum on secession?
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That secession thing didn't work out real well the last time.
I'm thinking nullification may be a better way to go at this
Not sure if I want the country balkanized
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Follow WH link above, you have to register. :P
I like how libiot asswipes are trying to strike back with these petitions to exile/deport/make un-citizens of secessionists! Must be the first time evah they are for exile and deportations! Bloody hypocrites!
::doublebird:: ::mooning::
Hey I will be a non-citizen. As an illegal you can't be deported by the regime (and even if they did, where would they deport you to?) , you pay no taxes, have access to all of the benefits and your life pretty much remains unchanged. Hell in most places you will still be allowed to vote.
Still not seeing the downside..
Fact is, we aren't citizens of this government, The Government we signed up for was limited in scope and didn't have the power to violate your inalienable rights. We didn't leave the country. the Country left us.
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This is watched with great interest in some circles in Canada, largely because of the attempts by Quebec to do the same. The difference is, most of the rest of Canada would be happy to see them leave. What's truly interesting is most of the States where the petition seems to be gaining ground are the ' producing' states which either grow food, or produce tangible products.
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Yes, the things that support life.
Suspect it will coincide with right to work also.
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I can't help but keep circling back to the Civil War as being the moment the Federal government usurped authority not delegated to it, and that most of the debate on the nature of government and its relationship to the citizen stems directly from the consequences of the Civil War.
Yes the question of secession was "settled" but it wasn't "answered". I think in this go-round formal secession is not only highly unlikely, but unnecessary as well. We are on track to a more de facto sort of balkanization. I would argue that the balkanization already started some time ago, but it is now beginning to crystallize.
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Certainly I won't disagree with that sentiment, but what are you suggesting as a preamble? A state referendum on secession?
Indeed. In some states, sufficient petition is enough to demand a ballot initiative. In other states a majority in the legislature can do it. Efforts toward something like that would be more concrete and meaningful.
But here's the thing: The pain of being in the United States of America has not become worth the destruction of it to the majority of people in ANY State. That won't happen until the federal government has tanks rolling through American cities and towns, and by then, petitions are too late, and impotent.
I like the idea of a public measure of people's disgust. Insofar as it can be meaningful enough to humiliate the Leftists, I'm all for it. But I don't like the White House being provided with a list of us by our own hand that they can use as the beginnings of a "traitor list". Not unless providing them with such a list leads to some kind of concrete solution aside from making people feel good about publicly registering their anger.
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We are on track to a more de facto sort of balkanization. I would argue that the balkanization already started some time ago, but it is now beginning to crystallize.
They are ready to lie, cheat, steal and do anything to enslave us. We are ready to do anything to prevent them. Balkanization has already occurred. Its a done deal. Its either divorce, sabotage (going Galt) , fighting in the streets, or a combination. The libtard really think we are going to laugh off this lie -- 100% of the vote in certain districts. That is out right Saddam Hussein cheating- and they don't care if we know it. The are depending upon us to be "Patriotic" and accept it because we love out country. They are depending on us to be Civil, when they are asshole barbarians. NO MORE. This is not my country. I have no loyalty to them or our government nor I should have - they have broken their agreement with Me. They have used the government as a weapon to violate my inalienable rights - rather than as the protector we agreed it would be. Balkanization isn't desirable - but it is a fact. They won't rest until the "bitter clingers" are dead or subjugated to their tyrannical will and living together is not going to work.
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But here's the thing: The pain of being in the United States of America has not become worth the destruction of it to the majority of people in ANY State. That won't happen until the federal government has tanks rolling through American cities and towns, and by then, petitions are too late, and impotent.
I wouldn't count on that. Overburden some regulation, land grabs, RFID tagging of people, mandatory immunizations, abolition of home schooling, forced "community service" indoctrination of our children, and destruction of the dollar will be ongoing. Obama will keep turning up the pain till we get a succession or we get outright rebellion - probably from his own dupes, who, deprived of their bread and circuses, suddenly realize that totalitarian dictators like the Democrats don't share power with the idiot masses who vote them in. And once firmly in power, no longer worry about appeasing them.
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But here's the thing: The pain of being in the United States of America has not become worth the destruction of it to the majority of people in ANY State. That won't happen until the federal government has tanks rolling through American cities and towns, and by then, petitions are too late, and impotent.
I wouldn't count on that. Overburden some regulation, land grabs, RFID tagging of people, mandatory immunizations, abolition of home schooling, forced "community service" indoctrination of our children, and destruction of the dollar will be ongoing. Obama will keep turning up the pain till we get a succession or we get outright rebellion - probably from his own dupes, who, deprived of their bread and circuses, suddenly realize that totalitarian dictators like the Democrats don't share power with the idiot masses who vote them in. And once firmly in power, no longer worry about appeasing them.
"Tanks rolling through the streets" was a catch-all for outright totalitarianism that people cannot turn away from. Overburdensome regulation, land grabs, mandatory immunizations, abolition of home schooling, forced "community service" indoctrination of our children, and destruction of the dollar have been ongoing.
The Leftists most certainly will be turning up the pain. But until that pain is squarely in the faces of everyone, and there is no further ability to deny that the pain comes from the federal government, people will refuse to accept that loyalty to the United States of America in its current form - no matter how broken - is less desirable than the destruction that will follow a conscious majority decision to rebel.
And it is at that moment - as the nation balances on the edge of a razor - when the Leftist demagogues in DC will point the fingers at the "haves" and tell the "have-nots" that the pain they are experiencing is all our fault.
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Yeah, as far as the Shyt in the White House wanting an enemies list, think we all ain't on it already? They know who we are!
I guess I am more interested in setting the stage for what is coming to claim the moral high ground, something that was a lot more difficult to do the last go around because slavery clouded the issue, without that distraction the debate can properly center on the Federal government assuming power over areas of our lives the Constitution and our Bill of Rights was designed to prevent. We have been betrayed by traitors within, from both parties, who by their overt action or gross negligence bring us to the point where violent rebellion has been made certain.
Weisshaupt is right, we did not leave the nation, the nation through its treason to our Founding left us, just because a bunch of Left-wing assholes and GOP Rulling Class whores are OK with that does not make it right or any less treasonous.
Preparation for separation and rebellion should be on the top of everyones To Do list - individuals, families, communities and whatever intelligent local government bodies that may exist across the land.
Prepare to fight for liberty and freedom or just bend over and grab your ankles and take it like a liberal.
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Where I am at -- and I am glad to hear Mark Levin making the same point -- is that we are not obligated to be complicit in our own demise. I don't care if a majority of voters disagree with us. Their ability to form an electoral mob means nothing. We are endowed with inalienable rights by the Creator. We have them because we exist. Just because our government has failed in its mission to protect and defend those rights doesn't mean the concept of those rights is no longer valid.
The only thing that remains now is what we've been alluding to in this thread. Something will happen, and it will probably be different for different people, but something will happen that makes the idea of direct physical resistance suddenly thinkable. It's unthinkable when people feel like they have too much to lose, not least of which their own lives, but history is full of examples where people come to a conclusion that the biggest loss would be continuing to exist as things are.
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Where I am at -- and I am glad to hear Mark Levin making the same point -- is that we are not obligated to be complicit in our own demise. I don't care if a majority of voters disagree with us. Their ability to form an electoral mob means nothing. We are endowed with inalienable rights by the Creator. We have them because we exist. Just because our government has failed in its mission to protect and defend those rights doesn't mean the concept of those rights is no longer valid.
The only thing that remains now is what we've been alluding to in this thread. Something will happen, and it will probably be different for different people, but something will happen that makes the idea of direct physical resistance suddenly thinkable. It's unthinkable when people feel like they have too much to lose, not least of which their own lives, but history is full of examples where people come to a conclusion that the biggest loss would be continuing to exist as things are.
Yeah, I just hope you're right about people learning the right lesson, recent developments do not instil much confidence.
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All 50 states have a petition going now. It is what it is, a protest statement.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/14/white-house-secede-petitions-reach-660000-signatures-50-state-participation/ (http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/14/white-house-secede-petitions-reach-660000-signatures-50-state-participation/)
Oh, BTW, Perry is a pussy! There, somebody had to say it. Can't wait to hear Beck kiss his ass this morning...
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All 50 states have a petition going now. It is what it is, a protest statement.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/14/white-house-secede-petitions-reach-660000-signatures-50-state-participation/ (http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/14/white-house-secede-petitions-reach-660000-signatures-50-state-participation/)
Oh, BTW, Perry is a pussy! There, somebody had to say it. Can't wait to hear Beck kiss his ass this morning...
That's just one of the reasons I'm leaning away from Texas and more towards TN right now. That, and the fact that Texas is becoming less and less White.
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All 50 states have a petition going now. It is what it is, a protest statement.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/14/white-house-secede-petitions-reach-660000-signatures-50-state-participation/ (http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/14/white-house-secede-petitions-reach-660000-signatures-50-state-participation/)
Oh, BTW, Perry is a pussy! There, somebody had to say it. Can't wait to hear Beck kiss his ass this morning...
That's just one of the reasons I'm leaning away from Texas and more towards TN right now. That, and the fact that Texas is becoming less and less White.
And TX has its fair share of Dem's...it's not like they aren't there...remember Ann Richards?! ::speechless::
And talk about white, check out them links I had for Idaho...talk about white! ;D
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I own property in Texas so I am all for secession but there is no way that I would put my name to any WH database. No way do I want this admin to be aware of my name.
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I own property in Texas so I am all for secession but there is no way that I would put my name to any WH database. No way do I want this admin to be aware of my name.
They already know about you Trap. All about you. What you have bought. What you read. Where you live.
Plus you don't need to make it easy. My WH login is under the "special" email account - the petition site was only an attempt to get addresses for Organizing for America anyway, and like all Obama websites, there is 0 verification that you are who you say they are. Set up a fake email using the ialproxy site and and then use the proxy to access the Whitehouse. It will at least make them work for the info. But seriously, they don't need the petition list to find you, and label you a threat. Any GOP registration at any point in your past will be proof enough that you are a threat. Any of your on line posts prove you are a threat, and they can back track your login here as easily as they can do it via the method above.
Conservatives are the new Jew - There is already a petition to strip anyone who signed the succession petitions of their citizenship - retroactively of course. Liberals don't understand or care about ex-post-facto, rule of law or justice. They vote for revenge. They have been told all of their lives that you and people like you are the reason they don't live on the Beach in a mansion, and that rhetoric is only going to increase. They ARE going to call for us to wear the equivalent of a "Star of David" - just this time via bar coding or RFID tagging. They are going to start killing us by the millions. They have no choice if they want to achieve their agenda. We are the 10-15 million (now 30 Million) Bill Ayers claimed would have to be liquidated as people who won't accept the new regime. Obama called us "Bitter Clingers" for a reason, and his handlers have every intent of using every means at their disposal to silence us: Re-education or death. Petraeus was obviously not loyal, or loyal enough. He is being removed, as are others, and they will be replaced with people on board with the agenda. we have time still, and they don't as they have to execute this at or during the collapse, and we are awake, armed and ready. Its not a foregone conclusion, but this is the only place it can go now ..
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All 50 states have a petition going now. It is what it is, a protest statement.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/14/white-house-secede-petitions-reach-660000-signatures-50-state-participation/ (http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/14/white-house-secede-petitions-reach-660000-signatures-50-state-participation/)
Oh, BTW, Perry is a pussy! There, somebody had to say it. Can't wait to hear Beck kiss his ass this morning...
That's just one of the reasons I'm leaning away from Texas and more towards TN right now. That, and the fact that Texas is becoming less and less White.
That's my problem with it as well. Its proximity to Mexico is its undoing. Already there is speculation that it will become a blue state in the Electoral College within about 10-15 years (of course, those time scales are now officially meaningless).
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That's my problem with it as well. Its proximity to Mexico is its undoing. Already there is speculation that it will become a blue state in the Electoral College within about 10-15 years (of course, those time scales are now officially meaningless).
After Amnesty and more Obama advertisement for Food Stamps in Mexico, it will be Blue next year. Its gonna be a rough ride no matter where you decide to go. The balance of power in the world is shifting, and all of western civilization is under attack. NZ/AU and the Pacific is going to become a protectorate of China, Europe will be split up between Russia and the new Caliphate ( and there will be one - and it will look just like the last one in every way) who will probably establish an uneasy truce (Russia is still a West-Civ nation in many respects) Mexico will become a Warlord based Feudal system, and they will start to expand their effective territory into the US ( Its already happening) Canada came about too late, and will be left to fend for herself with inadequate resources, and will be forced to play the parties off each other. If Obama fails to consolidate the country militarily under a totalitarian dictatorship (Oh sorry, One Party Democracy) a balkanization will occur. California will become a protectorate of China. The East Coast will fall under Russian influence, and "Fly Over country" will be the last bastion of freedom if it survives the breakup, and be - "flanked on both sides" ( as Barnhardt says) - and our only hope will be reconquering one or both coasts my military force. Or fly-over country may just end up another collection of militias and warlords.
None of that is set in stone, and WWIII may bring some dramatic shifts in allegiance , depopulate whole areas with Nukes, and change the final outcome. However, I don't think there is any place on earth you will be able to go and "sit this one out" unless you really he huge piles of cash and are connected with the right people.
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I own property in Texas so I am all for secession but there is no way that I would put my name to any WH database. No way do I want this admin to be aware of my name.
They already know about you Trap. All about you. What you have bought. What you read. Where you live.
Plus you don't need to make it easy. My WH login is under the "special" email account - the petition site was only an attempt to get addresses for Organizing for America anyway, and like all Obama websites, there is 0 verification that you are who you say they are. Set up a fake email using the ialproxy site and and then use the proxy to access the Whitehouse. It will at least make them work for the info. But seriously, they don't need the petition list to find you, and label you a threat. Any GOP registration at any point in your past will be proof enough that you are a threat. Any of your on line posts prove you are a threat, and they can back track your login here as easily as they can do it via the method above.
Conservatives are the new Jew - There is already a petition to strip anyone who signed the succession petitions of their citizenship - retroactively of course. Liberals don't understand or care about ex-post-facto, rule of law or justice. They vote for revenge. They have been told all of their lives that you and people like you are the reason they don't live on the Beach in a mansion, and that rhetoric is only going to increase. They ARE going to call for us to wear the equivalent of a "Star of David" - just this time via bar coding or RFID tagging. They are going to start killing us by the millions. They have no choice if they want to achieve their agenda. We are the 10-15 million (now 30 Million) Bill Ayers claimed would have to be liquidated as people who won't accept the new regime. Obama called us "Bitter Clingers" for a reason, and his handlers have every intent of using every means at their disposal to silence us: Re-education or death. Petraeus was obviously not loyal, or loyal enough. He is being removed, as are others, and they will be replaced with people on board with the agenda. we have time still, and they don't as they have to execute this at or during the collapse, and we are awake, armed and ready. Its not a foregone conclusion, but this is the only place it can go now ..
I'm looking hard for an area of disagreement and I am coming up empty.
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That's my problem with it as well. Its proximity to Mexico is its undoing. Already there is speculation that it will become a blue state in the Electoral College within about 10-15 years (of course, those time scales are now officially meaningless).
After Amnesty and more Obama advertisement for Food Stamps in Mexico, it will be Blue next year. Its gonna be a rough ride no matter where you decide to go. The balance of power in the world is shifting, and all of western civilization is under attack. NZ/AU and the Pacific is going to become a protectorate of China, Europe will be split up between Russia and the new Caliphate ( and there will be one - and it will look just like the last one in every way) who will probably establish an uneasy truce (Russia is still a West-Civ nation in many respects) Mexico will become a Warlord based Feudal system, and they will start to expand their effective territory into the US ( Its already happening) Canada came about too late, and will be left to fend for herself with inadequate resources, and will be forced to play the parties off each other. If Obama fails to consolidate the country militarily under a totalitarian dictatorship (Oh sorry, One Party Democracy) a balkanization will occur. California will become a protectorate of China. The East Coast will fall under Russian influence, and "Fly Over country" will be the last bastion of freedom if it survives the breakup, and be - "flanked on both sides" ( as Barnhardt says) - and our only hope will be reconquering one or both coasts my military force. Or fly-over country may just end up another collection of militias and warlords.
None of that is set in stone, and WWIII may bring some dramatic shifts in allegiance , depopulate whole areas with Nukes, and change the final outcome. However, I don't think there is any place on earth you will be able to go and "sit this one out" unless you really he huge piles of cash and are connected with the right people.
And you have a secret base deep in the ground in Antarctica.
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I heard Beck bloviating on how great TX is and how great their nullification efforts are and that this is the way to fight, not sign petitions and let the govt know who we are (that latter part debunked well by Weisshaupt above)...God Bless him he does a good job on educating people and gets it 90-95% right, but that other 5-10% will get people killed! He still thinks there is a country that will survive, that nice will suffice and violence isn't inevitable...drives me freakin' nuts with that shyt!
ETA - Here he is...
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/heres-why-glenn-beck-says-to-stop-all-those-secession-petitions-are-you-out-of-your-mind/ (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/heres-why-glenn-beck-says-to-stop-all-those-secession-petitions-are-you-out-of-your-mind/)
Discard the "don't sign the petition" nonsense, the rest is vintage Beck trying to have it both ways.
First, assuming you are right Mr. Beck and the Feds come after you once they learn who you are by signing this petition...how does this NOT lead to Civil War?
Second, secession is settled...OK, lets say you are (like Scalia) right again (see link below)...then why if Obama is not as bad as you fear, which you state above, is there any cause for harm or fear? You say the Constitution is not a suicide pact but then agree that it has become that since secession has been romoved from the realm of the possible, so your answer is...no to Civil War, no to violence of any sort but blind faith in people to be nice and do the right thing in the end?
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/there-is-no-right-to-secede-see-the-letter-where-justice-scalia-shoots-down-idea-of-leaving-the-union/ (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/there-is-no-right-to-secede-see-the-letter-where-justice-scalia-shoots-down-idea-of-leaving-the-union/)
Third, you say "“If the government begins arming itself against the citizens at the federal level, and say ‘by the way, we’re your new state police,’ that would indeed be the point in the course of human events where it becomes necessary to dissolve political bands,"...umm, you think we are not there already?
And lastly - You say " 'secession is not an option,' and so it is up to you to contact your governor, find out what your kids are learning, and change the media. Because the next step isn’t going to be easy."...Really?
What if my Governor is a complete statist asshat like Obama? Same for the entire legislature! Don't you know what our kids are learning? You think the public schools can be reformed before the crap hits the fan? You think you have time to change the media?! Hilarious! You back on the sauce? The next step will not be easy, you got that right, but you got a lot wrong about what to do about it!
PS-Pull those stupid "food insurance" commercials, they are embarassing! The best food insurance is your own food!
::)
Idiot!
::gaah::
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Talk of inevitable armed conflict would achieve little and would have the Fed on him like a duck on a June-bug.
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Talk of inevitable armed conflict would achieve little and would have the Fed on him like a duck on a June-bug.
Cowardice.
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Talk of inevitable armed conflict would achieve little and would have the Fed on him like a duck on a June-bug.
Cowardice.
I dunno, Libertas. Mark Levin has been treading a very fine line himself since the election; I think they all are.
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Talk of inevitable armed conflict would achieve little and would have the Fed on him like a duck on a June-bug.
Cowardice.
I dunno, Libertas. Mark Levin has been treading a very fine line himself since the election; I think they all are.
I am not arguing against nuance, but avoiding the discussion helps...who? The enemy?
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Armed conflict is inevitable. And secession is a right. Doesn't matter what Justice Scalia or anyone else says about it. You cannot say that government derives its legitimacy from the consent of the governed, and then on the other hand say there is no right to secession. What is secession but the governed withdrawing their consent to be governed? This country was founded in an act of secession.
But as I have argued before, I think secession is a red herring. I don't see it happening, nor do I see it being necessary. We are experiencing balkanization in the culture, so political dissolution will follow in due course.
The entire universe favors stable, low energy configurations. Volatile chemical compounds will release enormous amounts of energy to achieve a more stable configuration of separate compounds. I see human events in the same way. Right now we have crammed together different elements into high energy, uneasy state. The inexorable tendency is to a low energy state, and it will happen.
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Talk of inevitable armed conflict would achieve little and would have the Fed on him like a duck on a June-bug.
Cowardice.
I dunno, Libertas. Mark Levin has been treading a very fine line himself since the election; I think they all are.
I am not arguing against nuance, but avoiding the discussion helps...who? The enemy?
I get what you're saying, but who is helped when the FCC shuts down both Beck and Levin because they allowed a discussion of this type?
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First, assuming you are right Mr. Beck and the Feds come after you once they learn who you are by signing this petition...how does this NOT lead to Civil War?
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
If they come after you for petitioning to leave the union, you have every right to resist.
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Talk of inevitable armed conflict would achieve little and would have the Fed on him like a duck on a June-bug.
Cowardice.
I dunno, Libertas. Mark Levin has been treading a very fine line himself since the election; I think they all are.
As I said at another place, I went to the doctor's yesterday and I noticed a dangerous trend among the staff not to be open with me about the election, choosing self-censorship as they were afraid to upset the wrong people. I don't do self-censorshp very well.
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Armed conflict is inevitable. And secession is a right. Doesn't matter what Justice Scalia or anyone else says about it. You cannot say that government derives its legitimacy from the consent of the governed, and then on the other hand say there is no right to secession. What is secession but the governed withdrawing their consent to be governed? This country was founded in an act of secession.
But as I have argued before, I think secession is a red herring. I don't see it happening, nor do I see it being necessary. We are experiencing balkanization in the culture, so political dissolution will follow in due course.
The entire universe favors stable, low energy configurations. Volatile chemical compounds will release enormous amounts of energy to achieve a more stable configuration of separate compounds. I see human events in the same way. Right now we have crammed together different elements into high energy, uneasy state. The inexorable tendency is to a low energy state, and it will happen.
Yup. Right, wrong or indifferent we are condemned to respond to events, there is no interest in logically addressing core issues and choose a less unstable course, people will only act reflexively one way or another. If that doesn't spell chaos I son't knwo what does. So ignoring reality continues to be the default position.
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Talk of inevitable armed conflict would achieve little and would have the Fed on him like a duck on a June-bug.
Cowardice.
I dunno, Libertas. Mark Levin has been treading a very fine line himself since the election; I think they all are.
I am not arguing against nuance, but avoiding the discussion helps...who? The enemy?
I get what you're saying, but who is helped when the FCC shuts down both Beck and Levin because they allowed a discussion of this type?
Are more not harmed by ceding authority to the statists aims we profess to be against our nature and our Founding principles? If we agree to censor ourselves we are in effect agreeing to the position of the government being the sole arbiter of everyones fate. Plus, I would prefer they make the first overt act of open treason, let them be dictators, let them be thugs.
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First, assuming you are right Mr. Beck and the Feds come after you once they learn who you are by signing this petition...how does this NOT lead to Civil War?
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
If they come after you for petitioning to leave the union, you have every right to resist.
Amen.
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Talk of inevitable armed conflict would achieve little and would have the Fed on him like a duck on a June-bug.
Cowardice.
I dunno, Libertas. Mark Levin has been treading a very fine line himself since the election; I think they all are.
As I said at another place, I went to the doctor's yesterday and I noticed a dangerous trend among the staff not to be open with me about the election, choosing self-censorship as they were afraid to upset the wrong people. I don't do self-censorshp very well.
Choosing to accept the yoke of tyranny is not a choice I will make.