It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => General Board => Topic started by: pisskop on February 04, 2013, 08:59:08 AM
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Looking around, I see a lot of unhappy people. Some ready to fight, some succumbing to their peevish desires. I have always been a man to plan, sometimes two or three of themm and this is one of my longer-standing questions.
1) Would you leave America, and what would it take to get you to willingly leave.
2) Where would you go?
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1) Absolutely. The one good thing about Barack Hussein Obama is that he's squeezed every last bit of nationalism out of me. America no longer stands out in the world as either a beacon of economic freedom, and more often, a beacon of personal freedom.
2) The million ten million dollar question as our currency is devalued due to a banana republic people voting banana republic government. Some places are already too expensive to consider. The "cheap" ones tend to have unstable governments.
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I am NOT leaving my country to these !@#$%&*!
Period.
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I think they just voted to leave you, Pandora.
The question I ask myself...
Chitcago USA or the Republic of Texas?
Not even a remote hesitation in my mind which I'd choose.
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Looking around, I see a lot of unhappy people. Some ready to fight, some succumbing to their peevish desires. I have always been a man to plan, sometimes two or three of themm and this is one of my longer-standing questions.
1) Would you leave America, and what would it take to get you to willingly leave.
2) Where would you go?
I am open to leaving, because I am an American. I am loyal to the Constitution and the govt it created. The Current govt has Representatives that openly say they don't care what it says. We have a supreme court declaring laws constitution because they just know congress meant "Tax" when they said "penalty" - This is no longer my country. The government is no longer legitimate in any way shape or form, having taken the basis of their legitimacy and claimed they they know better than the racist dead men who wrote their grant of power 200 years ago. This is now the United States to me... not "of America" except in the geographic sense... which is the only sense that any liberal is an "American"
I thought there was a better place, we would be making arrangements to go. Even if it were to Mars or a risky Journey on a starship to an exo-planet.
Yes, there are "better" places, but that lack any tradition of individual freedom, tending toward European communal tribalism, and they will fall into tyranny rapidly when The United States is gone. And the United States will be gone. Obama and his handlers are deliberately attacking the foundations of this country- and their Cloward-Piven of the economy will create yet another crisis in which they can seize power and declare martial law.. Probably in conjunction with a World War, so they can export all of those pesky unemployed young men and women who might resist. The fact that the collapse of the dollar and WWIII will have world wide effects, causing severe depressions in the 2nd world and millions on the edge in the 3rd world to die and starve doesn't bother them at all. It will, however, bother the people in those countries. American refugees will be perceived as evil, treated as pariahs, and will be discriminated against with impunity - because only Americans think racism is wrong.
So Ultimately, Obama has made a fatal mistake. He has pushed us into a corner (is the corner called TX, WY, MT ? Does it matter?)
When you surround an army, leave an outlet free.
Do not press a desperate foe too hard. -Sun Tzu, Art of War
By leaving no out, we will be forced to the knowledge that we are likely to die on the battlefield. Once that is accepted, we will decide that we must do as much damage to the enemy as possible before we go, and fight all the more fiercely for it. I can only guess it is because they realize they are out of time., and are forced to act quickly rather than spending another 20 years at boiling the frog. Had they done that, I think they would have found 90% of the population of the United States willingly handing over their guns and accepting their shackles.
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I always favored New Zealand as my hypothetical sanctuary. The problem is, we're dealing with a globalist oligarchy, with everything the word "global" entails. To me, the word "globalist" used to have only vague notions of a trend away from national entities in deference to international bodies of phony consensus. It is that, of course. But recently it dawned on me what is really implicit in "globalism", and that is the tyranny of uniformity, of one-size-fits-all diktats. So globalism is a threat even within the confines of a single country, because what it really means is the destruction of the individual and his preferences in service to the overarching, all-encompassing ministrations of the elite. The other word for that is totalitarianism, because it touches every single facet of existence and tolerates no alternatives.
So getting back to the subject of fleeing America, the immediate question is where can you go? At this point were I to relocate to New Zealand, or Australia, or Canada even, it would not be under any illusions that I am going to a better political environment. I would still consider it, but mainly out of demographic concerns. I simply do not see how America has a bright future when it is rapidly and deliberately engaged in ethnic cleansing of its founding "stock" and replacing it with Third World peoples.
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None of us would choose to flee our homes, or our homeland. If the time comes, it will be because our state refuses to protect us from the federal government, or worse (like MN) will proactively aid the federal government in undermining liberty. But there will be states that resist when it comes down to it.
The best places to "flee" an illegitimate United States government will still be inside what that same government claims as its territory. That is where the resistance will be the most fierce, and where the most people will be gathered trying to maintain a semblance of the ideals the Left is destroying.
Texas, Oklahoma, Utah, Wyoming, Alaska, Montana, Idaho, North & South Dakota, and a smattering of other possibilities.
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Fleeing looks attractive only because we are appalled at what the Leftists have wrought in our once functioning Republic and we see where their means end up, but as pointed out by many here more than once if the fan hits the shyt hard enough there is not a place on earth one can go to that will be insulated from the insanity...not unless you have Darth Soros type resources...and even then it is only buying time.
So, would I leave? No, simply no place to go to.
So either we defeat these tyrants or incinerate the earth trying to, either way it is getting back the America we lost or the pearly gates, let the contest begin!
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Are you kidding me? Leave? After all this ammo I bought?
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Was born in Texas, not currently living there, but hope to die there. That being said, no way I would leave the USA (as it so stands)... earth is a temporary home for me, I will run the race that is set before me, fight the good fight (no matter what it is) and strive to stay in Gods Will.
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By leaving no out, we will be forced to the knowledge that we are likely to die on the battlefield. Once that is accepted, we will decide that we must do as much damage to the enemy as possible before we go, and fight all the more fiercely for it.
Can you say "Alamo"?
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By leaving no out, we will be forced to the knowledge that we are likely to die on the battlefield. Once that is accepted, we will decide that we must do as much damage to the enemy as possible before we go, and fight all the more fiercely for it.
Can you say "Alamo"?
That's (eerily) funny. I was talking to a brother today who was having a particularly rough day (who isn't?!). He mentioned that perhaps we need to get some code-words together in case we need to speak when we can't really speak (if you know what I mean).
I suggested "Alamo" when it's time to go to the mats.
Somehow he just didn't appreciate the irony there...
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A lot of this will play out all by itself,all planing now will do is fill in time.When the time comes the choices will surface and the decisions will be made.Nobody here has bought a place in another state in case we need to run because we don't know what direction to go in yet.
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By leaving no out, we will be forced to the knowledge that we are likely to die on the battlefield. Once that is accepted, we will decide that we must do as much damage to the enemy as possible before we go, and fight all the more fiercely for it.
Can you say "Alamo"?
That's (eerily) funny. I was talking to a brother today who was having a particularly rough day (who isn't?!). He mentioned that perhaps we need to get some code-words together in case we need to speak when we can't really speak (if you know what I mean).
I suggested "Alamo" when it's time to go to the mats.
Somehow he just didn't appreciate the irony there...
Little Big Horn works too. There's lots of choices...
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A lot of this will play out all by itself,all planing now will do is fill in time.When the time comes the choices will surface and the decisions will be made.Nobody here has bought a place in another state in case we need to run because we don't know what direction to go in yet.
I would argue a physical location is not as important per se. America as a physical entity containing the things we've valued from our Founding may no longer exist, but the ideals of America - life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - the natural God-given rights of man - they reside in our heart, our mind and our soul - that can never be extinguished!
Having said that, if a state (say for example Texas) were to secede, I would drop everything and rally to her.
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The best places to "flee" an illegitimate United States government will still be inside what that same government claims as its territory. That is where the resistance will be the most fierce, and where the most people will be gathered trying to maintain a semblance of the ideals the Left is destroying.
Texas, Oklahoma, Utah, Wyoming, Alaska, Montana, Idaho, North & South Dakota, and a smattering of other possibilities.
Get, say, Colorado to come around and it would geographically contiguous.
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The best places to "flee" an illegitimate United States government will still be inside what that same government claims as its territory. That is where the resistance will be the most fierce, and where the most people will be gathered trying to maintain a semblance of the ideals the Left is destroying.
Texas, Oklahoma, Utah, Wyoming, Alaska, Montana, Idaho, North & South Dakota, and a smattering of other possibilities.
Get, say, Colorado to come around and it would geographically contiguous.
I fear that Colorado is going the way of California.
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What will be interesting is what happens when the King's Schilling is no longer worth very much. How will the regime maintain an army of enforcers then? It will seek to "pay" them by other means. Since this is ultimately an incipient global feudalism taking shape, it stands to reason that the modern equivalent of titles of nobility will become a bargaining chip. Throw in a little "you'll get to play god over the lives of your peasants", it's certainly worked throughout history.
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A lot of this will play out all by itself,all planing now will do is fill in time.When the time comes the choices will surface and the decisions will be made.Nobody here has bought a place in another state in case we need to run because we don't know what direction to go in yet.
I would argue a physical location is not as important per se. America as a physical entity containing the things we've valued from our Founding may no longer exist, but the ideals of America - life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - the natural God-given rights of man - they reside in our heart, our mind and our soul - that can never be extinguished!
Having said that, if a state (say for example Texas) were to secede, I would drop everything and rally to her.
No argument there but I tend to believe that there will be more choices out there.
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What will be interesting is what happens when the King's Schilling is no longer worth very much. How will the regime maintain an army of enforcers then? It will seek to "pay" them by other means. Since this is ultimately an incipient global feudalism taking shape, it stands to reason that the modern equivalent of titles of nobility will become a bargaining chip. Throw in a little "you'll get to play god over the lives of your peasants", it's certainly worked throughout history.
It also puts indentifiers on and begs for more William Wallace style rebellion. ;)
::whoohoo::
machinegun
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A lot of this will play out all by itself,all planing now will do is fill in time.When the time comes the choices will surface and the decisions will be made.Nobody here has bought a place in another state in case we need to run because we don't know what direction to go in yet.
I would argue a physical location is not as important per se. America as a physical entity containing the things we've valued from our Founding may no longer exist, but the ideals of America - life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - the natural God-given rights of man - they reside in our heart, our mind and our soul - that can never be extinguished!
Having said that, if a state (say for example Texas) were to secede, I would drop everything and rally to her.
No argument there but I tend to believe that there will be more choices out there.
I hope too there are more than two options!
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I fear that Colorado is going the way of California.
Of course it is.. where do you think our population growth came from?
It really matters how this goes down. If States are allowed secede peacefully, then we probably all pull up stakes, move to the free states, and live well until the Blue States inevitably go the way of Detroit, and start to present a threat to our ( new) national interest. However, I think that has a low probability of happening. The Blue United States can't have at least half of their most productive and wealthiest citizens leaving - especially with the debt they racked up. Open armed conflict will ensue. Provided they don't deploy WMD (nukes, chemical or bio-weapons) I suspect we will see massive resistance in EVERY rural area of the US... even in Blue States. The next civil war will be country mice vs city mice. Wars are about territory and the Liberals all live in fragile little sandcastles called cities. If states surrounding Colorado seceded how many bordering rural counties would petition Wyoming, or Utah to become part of their state, or start acting like it in all but name? How much food would be produced and shipped to the liberal enclaves in the cities and towns? How many of those shipments would never make it? How much of the electrical grid travels through rural counties?
The Colorado Front range here is also very dependent upon the water infrastructure (as is LA in California) There are tunnels driven through solid rock to move water to the plains. Many places in Colorado cannot locally sustain the population in them, and are dependent upon a select few roads and passes for the transport of goods. If push came to shove here, the infrastructure could be easily crippled - for months - without directly hurting a single human being. If that was combined with a (militia enforced) boycott of food and supplies from the surrounding seceded states - Colorado cities would be quickly hurting - and blaming the govt for not protecting them. Even in the rural areas of Colorado, liberals live in town (they have to be seen and heard you know) , don't own 4WD ( unless a Subaru Outback counts) , and generally don't own firearms or know how to hunt - and they are outnumbered by the conservatives in the surrounding areas - most of whom, given the successions and civil war, are now completely happy to watch them suffer and starve, backed up by law enforcement inclined to do the same.
I suspect that many places, even in Blue states, will look much the same. Yes, the military can try to start taking out rebel forces one farmhouse at a time-- as they have been doing in Afghanistan.. and you see how well that works, and the United states is much larger, and the rural counties are where the food comes from. They can't scorch the earth without making up the loss of production from overseas-- and their influence there (and here) will be diminishing as they print dollars to pay for this war on the American people who want nothing other than to be left alone. They will have a split in the Democratic party - pacifists vs hawks - Just like there was in the first Civil War, and this admin will be forced to show its brutal hand against the useless idiots in the cities as well.
Its thinking about this stuff that scares me so much.. you see all of the difficulty for the dictators UNLESS they kill us all with WMD. A Bio weapon that forces people to report to the FEMA camp for inoculation, classification and processing. Here is your RFID chip- "just so we have a record of what treatment you received". You are assigned to Gulag 1 refugee camp 1 , and your husband will go to the showers for "decontamination" Oops- he was sicker than we thought. He isn't coming back Oh, and those meds that kill the contagion we released, yeah unfortunately they mixed with an genetically engineered addictive substance. Stay in line or you will face a painful withdrawl.
Of course, if they have and intend to use such a weapon, why haven't they used it already? What event are they waiting for?
I suspect their Hubris really makes them think they can subjugate us with out it. However if it looks like they might loose, perhaps then they deploy it. The H1N1 bit was certainly trying to gauge reaction to such a thing.