It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => General Board => Topic started by: trapeze on August 11, 2013, 03:53:41 PM
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LINK (http://www.cnbc.com/id/100935430)
Not for everyone but it is an option:
The individual mandate in the Affordable Care Act requires all Americans to have health insurance or face penalties, but members of medical-sharing ministries are exempt from the individual mandate that will be enforced beginning in 2015.
It's there because of the work of then-Congressmen Tom Perriello, a Virginia Democrat and Sens. Max Baucus, a Montana Democrat, and Republican Charles Grassley of Iowa, who fought to add the exemption to the law. It's the same principle that allowed for the Amish to be exempted from the individual mandate—with the crucial difference that it's a lot more practical to join Medi-Share (http://mychristiancare.org/medi-share/) than it is to become Amish.
So...this would allow you to opt out, not pay any fine to the IRS and still be covered, sort of, for when bad things happen.
I have to say that there is a very big appeal there for me to not pay into O'BongoCare nor pay the IRS a fine.
I will be considering this when my premiums double next year.
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I requested info from the group. Never hurts to be well informed.
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hey Don share the details when you get them
tho my dh is so traditional I don't know if he'd consider something else and he had a stroke last year so not sure he'd be eligible
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hey Don share the details when you get them
tho my dh is so traditional I don't know if he'd consider something else and he had a stroke last year so not sure he'd be eligible
Will do.
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"Cannot use tobacco or illegal drugs in any form, or abuse legal drugs or alcohol."
http://mychristiancare.org/eligibility.aspx (http://mychristiancare.org/eligibility.aspx)
And what is the definition of "abuse" for alcohol? ::saywhat::
Screw it, I say open defiance works. Come and fine me!
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Catholics need not apply.
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There are two other orgs:
http://samaritanministries.org (http://samaritanministries.org)
http://www.chministries.org (http://www.chministries.org)
So if Medi-Share isn't for you perhaps check those.
But those are the only three available. The law is that they had to be in place prior to 2000.
(I requested info, too.)
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There are two other orgs:
http://samaritanministries.org (http://samaritanministries.org)
http://www.chministries.org (http://www.chministries.org)
So if Medi-Share isn't for you perhaps check those.
But those are the only three available. The law is that they had to be in place prior to 2000.
(I requested info, too.)
If this is a legitimate work-round, these three entities are in for big-time change. They're about to become involved in a tug of war between throngs of people seeking a way out, and a government hell-bent on figuring out a way to punish them for daring to provide it.
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If this is a legitimate work-round, these three entities are in for big-time change. They're about to become involved in a tug of war between throngs of people seeking a way out, and a government hell-bent on figuring out a way to punish them for daring to provide it.
I don't see how the government can screw with them since these three orgs were more or less given a carve out in DumbassCare. Face it, it's not insurance and isn't potentially as good as insurance can be since there is no guarantee of coverage for anything. What it is is a leap of faith which, when you think about it, shouldn't be that big a deal for a Christian. You either trust God to take care of you or you put your trust in DumbassCare.
I will be staying on my individual plan until I can't. That point will come when the premium goes up again which will be sometime within the next six months, I think. Or when I get hit with a fine because my individual plan does not meet the DumbassCare standards. I will say this: I'm not going to go on the dole through one of the DumbassCare exchanges and I'm not going to pay a fine on top of my current insurance. Up until I heard about this my plan was to just drop coverage altogether, pay the fine and, since pre-existing conditions can't be denied, wait until there is a need and then shell out for expensive (probably really, really expensive) insurance.
With this, as an option, I don't have to pay for insurance that has all kinds of BS in it that I either don't need or that I morally disagree with.
So...I will be looking into it very seriously.
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I don't see how the government can screw with them...
How about turning any given bureaucratic arm of the federal government loose on them? How about the administration "deeming" any given facet of their operation disqualifies them from the exemption? How about the IRS tying them up in court defending their exempt status? How about using the NSA's data mining to personally harass/destroy the administrators? How about blowing the astroturf dog-whistle and having people show up at the homes of the administrators and threatening their children while ObamaCare supporters in the police unions turn a blind eye? How about the EPA raiding them and stealing their assets for some obscure violation of foreign law?
I can think of many ways the federal government can screw with them, and all of the ways I can think of are already happening to other people and entities. The only common denominator is that they dare to oppose the Leftist regime in word or deed.
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"Cannot use tobacco or illegal drugs in any form, or abuse legal drugs or alcohol."
http://mychristiancare.org/eligibility.aspx (http://mychristiancare.org/eligibility.aspx)
And what is the definition of "abuse" for alcohol? ::saywhat::
Screw it, I say open defiance works. Come and fine me!
I'm screwed on all counts....except drugs. Then again, this administration may push me to the point....
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Guys, if you're buying your own, why not just roll with what the dumbass' gave you? Pay a "fine" that's pennies on the dollar to coverage, then if you get sick, buy coverage.
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Guys, if you're buying your own, why not just roll with what the dumbass' gave you? Pay a "fine" that's pennies on the dollar to coverage, then if you get sick, buy coverage.
Why have coverage? Just go to the ER. As far as I know DumbassCare didn't give hospitals the right to deny care.
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Guys, if you're buying your own, why not just roll with what the dumbass' gave you? Pay a "fine" that's pennies on the dollar to coverage, then if you get sick, buy coverage.
Why have coverage? Just go to the ER. As far as I know DumbassCare didn't give hospitals the right to deny care.
That punishes doctors and hospitals. We ought to be punishing the government.
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how is the fine calculated?
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Guys, if you're buying your own, why not just roll with what the dumbass' gave you? Pay a "fine" that's pennies on the dollar to coverage, then if you get sick, buy coverage.
Why have coverage? Just go to the ER. As far as I know DumbassCare didn't give hospitals the right to deny care.
That punishes doctors and hospitals. We ought to be punishing the government.
Little difference between the two, hospitals and government that is. I'm in this biz. Most hospitals are non-profit, to maintain non-profit status and get the tax breaks you sign away any right to protest being shaken down for all sorts of community needs...and my outfit is not alone in being all-in for DumbassCare...they see some revenue better than none, and think through consolidation (the likes we haven't seen since the bank merger craze of the 80's and 90's) the shark will eat them last. On the front end doctors will not suffer in compensation for treating refugees off the streets in the ER...as DumbassCare evolves though they'll be squeezed (like everybody else)...shattering this madness is mandatory, any and all means must be employed, targeting just the government sounds nice, but nibbling at the co-parasites is in order.
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how is the fine calculated?
I think it's a set amount. Something that maxes out at $695 per single, $2,085 for a family. Pay the fine, wait until you get sick to buy insurance seems to be a no-brainer for me.
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how is the fine calculated?
I think it's a set amount. Something that maxes out at $695 per single, $2,085 for a family. Pay the fine, wait until you get sick to buy insurance seems to be a no-brainer for me.
It is the most logical path of self-interest, for sure, and as a libertarian minded person, I won't argue against acting in ones self interest.
But this is also what the Leftists are counting on - crashing the system with ObamaCare, and then providing single-payer taxpayer funded health care as the solution. People waiting until they're sick and then using the ridiculous "pre-existing condition" clause will accelerate the crash.
It is a brilliantly diabolical plan, isn't it? Use coercion to force people into a choice between doing something they don't want to do, or acting in their self-interest - both of which will lead to the desired end of the current system.
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Guys, if you're buying your own, why not just roll with what the dumbass' gave you? Pay a "fine" that's pennies on the dollar to coverage, then if you get sick, buy coverage.
That was going to be my Plan A.
Now, I think that I might be going with this solution (a health sharing scheme) as my Plan A. Plan B would then be, if for some reason plan A did not work out...such as: It did not cover something that I really, really needed to be covered...then I could purchase insurance (after the house was already on fire) and get the pre-existing condition taken care of. In the meantime, under Plan A, I still have health coverage (of sorts) with Medi-Share (or one of the other two plans), I'm not paying some ridiculous amount for coverage that I neither need nor want and I'm not paying the IRS a fine.
Because that's what I was looking at...much like looking down the barrel of a gun...I was either going to keep my existing coverage (which is going to have its premiums double within the next six to twelve months...it already went up 50% at the beginning of this year) and pay the fine or have to sign up at an exchange for a subsidized (approved) plan.
As I understand it (and I could be wrong) if my current coverage does not meet the minimum requirements of DumbassCare (and it does not) I either have to drop that plan for one that does or pay a fine. My Plan A was going to be to, as mentioned above, just drop out and pay the fine only, wait until I really needed healthcare and then get covered as a pre-existing case. I didn't like that because 1) it's awkward not being covered by anything and trying to get care and 2) it's both insulting and injurious to pay the IRS a fine just because I don't want to go on the dole.
Because that's what it comes down to unless you are pretty darned wealthy...you are either going to have to:
A) Keep your expensive (and getting more expensive) non-DumbassCare approved plan AND pay a fine or,
B) Purchase ridiculously expensive DumbassCare approved coverage (I remember reading that a "bronze" IRS approved plan would be somewhere north of $20k/year) or,
C) Go on the dole by going to a government exchange and getting a subsidized DumbassCare approved plan or,
D) Drop your current expensive non-DumbassCare approved plan, pay the fine and wait for something to happen and then pay for coverage.
If there was another option (And who knows? Maybe there is) I didn't know what it was until now.
Obviously, I'm going to get info on all three plans and look it over very carefully before committing to one of them...or not.
But I think I probably will.
I don't want to and cannot afford to get a non-subsidized DumbassCare Plan. I don't want to go on the dole, either. I don't want to pay for other peoples' abortions, or their mental health treatment, or their sex change operation, or their maternity coverage, or their AIDS treatment, etc. Because that's why DumbassCare is so expensive. Not only are you paying for pre-existing conditions but you are paying for a mandatory omnibus plan that covers stuff that you neither need nor want nor should have to pay for. DumbassCare is truly one size fits all and they're making you an offer you can't refuse, by law.
I am fortunate enough to meet all of the requirements of these "share" plans...don't drink except in moderation, don't smoke, don't take drugs, etc...so it is a viable option.
So...this is a choice I did not know that I had.
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I don't see how the government can screw with them...
How about turning any given bureaucratic arm of the federal government loose on them? How about the administration "deeming" any given facet of their operation disqualifies them from the exemption? How about the IRS tying them up in court defending their exempt status? How about using the NSA's data mining to personally harass/destroy the administrators? How about blowing the astroturf dog-whistle and having people show up at the homes of the administrators and threatening their children while ObamaCare supporters in the police unions turn a blind eye? How about the EPA raiding them and stealing their assets for some obscure violation of foreign law?
I can think of many ways the federal government can screw with them, and all of the ways I can think of are already happening to other people and entities. The only common denominator is that they dare to oppose the Leftist regime in word or deed.
You are being a glass half empty person on this. I choose to think of this as God providing me with an out that He approves of. I won't have to violate His Word if I go this route. Why else would this have been put into the law unless He wanted it to be there? God chooses the kings that are put in place to rule over us (which is why I believe that He is judging our nation...he gave us King Putt) and it appears, in this case, He has also moved our legislators to (perhaps unwittingly) provide His people with a morally acceptable path.
It is not yet time for us to have to choose between taking the number of the beast or persecution but it is getting closer to that day.
And if God's hand is in this then He will thwart anyone who attempts to destroy it. As a believer I cannot think of it any other way. We either trust and believe or we don't.
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No doubt it was designed to crash the system. It's a good thing there's a vibrant opposition party in this country hammering that point home, isn't there?
::thinking::
::facepalm::
::upsidedownflag::
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I don't see how the government can screw with them...
How about turning any given bureaucratic arm of the federal government loose on them? How about the administration "deeming" any given facet of their operation disqualifies them from the exemption? How about the IRS tying them up in court defending their exempt status? How about using the NSA's data mining to personally harass/destroy the administrators? How about blowing the astroturf dog-whistle and having people show up at the homes of the administrators and threatening their children while ObamaCare supporters in the police unions turn a blind eye? How about the EPA raiding them and stealing their assets for some obscure violation of foreign law?
I can think of many ways the federal government can screw with them, and all of the ways I can think of are already happening to other people and entities. The only common denominator is that they dare to oppose the Leftist regime in word or deed.
You are being a glass half empty person on this. I choose to think of this as God providing me with an out that He approves of. I won't have to violate His Word if I go this route. Why else would this have been put into the law unless He wanted it to be there? God chooses the kings that are put in place to rule over us (which is why I believe that He is judging our nation...he gave us King Putt) and it appears, in this case, He has also moved our legislators to (perhaps unwittingly) provide His people with a morally acceptable path.
It is not yet time for us to have to choose between taking the number of the beast or persecution but it is getting closer to that day.
And if God's hand is in this then He will thwart anyone who attempts to destroy it. As a believer I cannot think of it any other way. We either trust and believe or we don't.
I'm not saying don't do it or that it's anything less than a great idea. I don't even question that it is a Godly alternative.
All I'm saying is that the way it's lined up, they're going to be flooded with people seeking a way out, and as an easily identifiable target (only three entities), there will be pressure from the regime against them and against the people seeking relief from them. What is now undoubtedly a manageable portfolio of member/clients is about to explode, and the government will not be happy about it. At the very least, the regime will seek to "close the loophole".
And to your point, if God wants the loophole open, it will remain open.
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They're about to become involved in a tug of war between throngs of people seeking a way out, and a government hell-bent on figuring out a way to punish them for daring to provide it.
There will be a lot of new business for these three orgs, that is certain. But...I don't know that it will be "throngs" outside of the faith based community.
Look at the options that I outlined above. I think that the real throngs are eventually and inevitably going to choose Option "C" and go on the dole. As you said above, the leftists are counting on crashing the system. You meant the healthcare system but I think that they are looking beyond that. I think that they are looking at crashing the entire government system and the capitalist system so that they can install their utopian fantasy plan. The quickest means to that end is to get the country into a default status and then declare that it's all over and we have to reboot. That plan may or may not involve anarchy, rioting and the like. It's Cloward/Pivens through and through.
We need to prepare accordingly but we shouldn't have to knowingly contribute to that end. Not getting involved with DumbassCare is, therefore, very high on my list of priorities.
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Those asswipes can crash the system as they choose to but he one thing they be forgetting is that doctor shortage that's coming their way. Med school is an expensive endeavor and I don't see anyone with brains deciding that humanitarian thoughts will rule out economic ones. Besides we've all heard and read about the ridiculously high rates of insurance for malpractice and if you think for one moment that the lawyers, most of them DemonRat contributors are just going to roll over and lose their gravy train, you're an absolute moron.
Have fun assholes, it won't be pretty either way. ::rockets::
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LINK (http://www.cnbc.com/id/100935430)
Not for everyone but it is an option:
The individual mandate in the Affordable Care Act requires all Americans to have health insurance or face penalties, but members of medical-sharing ministries are exempt from the individual mandate that will be enforced beginning in 2015.
It's there because of the work of then-Congressmen Tom Perriello, a Virginia Democrat and Sens. Max Baucus, a Montana Democrat, and Republican Charles Grassley of Iowa, who fought to add the exemption to the law. It's the same principle that allowed for the Amish to be exempted from the individual mandate—with the crucial difference that it's a lot more practical to join Medi-Share (http://mychristiancare.org/medi-share/) than it is to become Amish.
So...this would allow you to opt out, not pay any fine to the IRS and still be covered, sort of, for when bad things happen.
I have to say that there is a very big appeal there for me to not pay into O'BongoCare nor pay the IRS a fine.
I will be considering this when my premiums double next year.
I received an e mail from medishare and it instructed me to go to their website to see the costs. Their costs are in line but when I checked to see which hospitals supported the program locally, there was only a small regional hospital.....and no hospitals in Nashville. So, while I like the idea I am severely limited as to where I can go for service. So they are a no go for me.
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So they are a no go for me.
Perhaps one of the other two? But this is what exploring the option is all about. It may not be right for me, either. But I hope that it is. I can't describe how important it is for me on a personal and spiritual level to avoid participating in this brave new world that President Pants Crease is crafting.
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So they are a no go for me.
Perhaps one of the other two? But this is what exploring the option is all about. It may not be right for me, either. But I hope that it is. I can't describe how important it is for me on a personal and spiritual level to avoid participating in this brave new world that President Pants Crease is crafting.
If you're retired, more and more are taking their marbles elsewhere. I certainly see myself elsewhere as soon as I can.
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So they are a no go for me.
Perhaps one of the other two? But this is what exploring the option is all about. It may not be right for me, either. But I hope that it is. I can't describe how important it is for me on a personal and spiritual level to avoid participating in this brave new world that President Pants Crease is crafting.
I'm going to check the others. Right now, actually under a plan supplied by my wifes work, it is a no go. A year or two from now? who knows.
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Update on medishare. I was mistaken on the hospital coverage. I can use any hospital I choose. Here is the costs sent to me.
Pricing based on the information you provided:
Pricing for 2 people and DOB of 03/09/1956 is below
Annual Household Portion $1,250 $2,500 $3,750 $5,000 $7,500 $10,000
Standard Monthly Share $533.82 $461.09 $412.18 $374.27 $313.22 $252.95
Healthy Monthly Share $435.82 $376.09 $334.18 $302.27 $248.22 $195.95
Pricing for 1 person and DOB of 03/09/1956 is below
Annual Household Portion $1,250 $2,500 $3,750 $5,000 $7,500 $10,000
Standard Monthly Share $348.23 $303.19 $268.36 $244.49 $207.35 $165.47
Healthy Monthly Share $289.23 $249.19 $221.36 $202.49 $167.35 $130.47
Once you pay your deductible, it is 100% coverage. 1 million cap per year, 5 million cap lifetime, per individual.
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I probably have info packets from all three plans waiting for me in my PO box which I will be checking on Monday or Tuesday. I have received emails and phone calls from two of them but have so far not engaged...I hate phone calls from these types of outfits even if I have initiated it. So, I guess that I will know more shortly.