It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => General Board => Topic started by: whimsicalmamapig on September 08, 2013, 11:18:29 AM
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Am I alone in feeling that we have created, through our education systems and entertainment industries, several generations of young people who have little to no understanding of what this country was founded on and what made it great. In dealing with young people I am always amazed at the large amount of misinformation that they possess and how they are almost totally unaware of their ignorance but feel totally informed and correct in all of their views and lifestyles choices?
Not only is there a lack of humility on their part, but they have been inculcated with the idea that they are "special" and their opinions have merit simply because they hold them, not because they are the product of sound research and understanding. These are the new voters and they approach our government unaware of its foundation and principals and rely mostly on the progressive agenda which has been driven into their heads through both the public schools and our university systems.
Many are very unaware of the basics of American history and civics. I am astounded as to how much of our history has been edited from the curriculum, yet we encourage them to vote while they do not have a good grasp on what elections are about. What would it take to "re-adjust" the understanding of these young people as to the realities of the world or is this just an impossible task.
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.... almost totally unaware of their ignorance but feel totally informed and correct ...
Operative word "feel".
There's the problem.
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Welcome to the forum. You are absolutely correct in your observations. There is nothing worse, or more dangerous, than that terrible combination of ignorance and arrogance. They're dumber than any previous generation, while simultaneously convinced that they're the most sophisticated.
I hesitate to say dumber, because I'm not sure if their cognitive hardware is any worse than previous generations', so maybe it's just ignorance. For sure they've been given some very faulty software by the education system, all by design too.
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as I observe my own grown children trying to carry on the family business, I am frightened for their future knowing that government will only grow larger and taxes grow greater to feed the every want and believed need of these young people.
They have been denied the information to make rational choices, and I am afraid that this was a purposeful attempt to keep them docile and willing supporters of whatever legislation the left proffers to them.
They don't seem to understand that we are guaranteed the right to the pursuit of happiness, not the right to be happy. They totally believe that their government has the right and the ability to fulfill their every want and need with a never ending flow of resources coming from the federal government without any understanding where this wealth comes from.
my fear is that we have waited too long to fight against the progressive movement to change the American culture.
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...They don't seem to understand that we are guaranteed the right to the pursuit of happiness, not the right to be happy. They totally believe that their government has the right and the ability to fulfill their every want and need with a never ending flow of resources...
The concept of happiness itself has been perverted; equated to "stuff". Easy credit and consumerist mentality have addicted people generations removed from an actual relationship between lack of responsibility and consequences, to the idea that the American Dream means living like Lords and Ladies whether it is earned or not.
Yank the world out from under them by destroying the economy, crashing the house of cards, and voilà, you have millions of babies suckling at the gubmint teat.
Welcome to the forum.
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my fear is that we have waited too long to fight against the progressive movement to change the American culture.
I think we have definitely waited too long, and now socioeconomic collapse is the only hope. We could have countered the march of the Left decades ago, but the refrain of the Republican Party has always been some variation of "this isn't the hill to die on", so they just acquiesce to the Left on this issue and that issue. It has a cumulative effect, because all these individually minor issues end up changing the entire culture. More importantly, it trains and conditions Republicans and their supporters into taking on the mindset of losers -- and look at the GOP leadership in Washington, that's exactly what they are.
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Welcome, whimsicalmamapig and thank you for expressing what many of us have said in one form or another.
I suspect my generation could have been the last who knew what this country was.
I grew up in the 1950s and by the end of the 1960s and early 1970s, the country had started to change.
My generation now holds the reins of power. And many of them were the flower children, hippies and Viet Nam War protesters.
I'll adnit I was one but eventually came around to some semblance of my senses
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The thought of an economic collapse may be the cathartic incident that could blast apart the socialist grasp of our nation, but if we were to see such an event we could usher in changes coming from other directions that may not create the results we want.
I yearn for the person who will stand up, unabashedly, and delineate just what the left has and is doing to this nation. As long as we are content to list our gripes and forebodings on a sight like this where it is safe rather than risk the certain smearing from the left, we will not build a force that can turn hearts and minds.
It is not that the youth of our nation are stupid, they are just brainwashed like those hapless dopes in North Korea who truly believe they live in the best nation on earth because they have not been taught anything else. The right needs a steady, long term re-education project that will enlighten the youth as to the true situation here, both economic and social, and draw a strong straight line from this current mess directly back to the beginnings for progressive re-alignment of our culture in our governments and schools.
this will take time and patience but re-education may be the only steady path available.
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The thought of an economic collapse may be the cathartic incident that could blast apart the socialist grasp of our nation, but if we were to see such an event we could usher in changes coming from other directions that may not create the results we want.
Hmm...well that's just it, though...an economic collapse isn't merely a thought, as if we could decide to have one or not. It either will or will not happen. Right now all indications (and worst of all, math) are that we are actually going to have one. The only question about it seems to be just when that particular shoe will drop.
And yes, when extreme change happens all bets are off as to what will happen. But, forewarned is forearmed and most people are ignoring the warning signs. Those people will be at the mercy of the ones who are prepared for the coming disaster.
I yearn for the person who will stand up, unabashedly, and delineate just what the left has and is doing to this nation. As long as we are content to list our gripes and forebodings on a sight like this where it is safe rather than risk the certain smearing from the left, we will not build a force that can turn hearts and minds.
I'm not sure where you are going with this. Personally, I have zero desire to build any kind of a force at all. Hearts and minds will be turned when they are ready to be turned and not before.
This site is for much more than listing our gripes and forebodings. It's a place where conservatives can have fellowship with likeminded people and be free from the ridiculous (and empty headed) snarking from the left. I can find that type of interaction just about anywhere and just about anytime. We come here to take a breather from that environment.
I hope that you stick around and learn about what goes on here so that you, too, can enjoy things here.
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"I'm not sure where you are going with this. Personally, I have zero desire to build any kind of a force at all. Hearts and minds will be turned when they are ready to be turned and not before."
What I was meaning to express is that the progressives had a long term goal to fundamentally alter the compass direction by which we had set our country's development.
If we are to bring it back to that direction, it will not be an overnight change, how many generations have passed through our current public schools indoctrinated to believe what the government says.
I think we need to start countering these beliefs with wisdom based on our founding principals and illustrate how following those concepts would benefit them in the long run. I don't think many of them have been confronted with an equal but alternative vision. They literally take for granted that everyone thinks their way and readily accepts the precepts they have been schooled in from kindergarten.
We, as conservatives have trained ourselves to "hold our tongues" in public debates or risk being shouted down by uber-aggressive radicals out to promote their agenda. I think the reason Senator Cruz has so great a following is that he gives it right back.
while I am not a Senator Cruz, I think we need to develop an attitude that allows us to confront leftist ideology with well-thought out responses that appeal to the youth, especially in areas of health care and jobs
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...I yearn for the person who will stand up, unabashedly, and delineate just what the left has and is doing to this nation...
Sarah Palin. Rand Paul. Ted Cruz. Rush Limbaugh. Allen West. Andrew Breitbart. Glenn Beck.
In other words, "the person" exists, and IS standing up unabashedly, delineating just what the Left is doing to this nation.
"The person" is not enough. And the reason the person is not enough is because the Democrats, the Republicans, the media, academia, the entierety of pop culture, and the "international community" are aligned squarely against "the person", and will stop at nothing to destroy him/her.
It will be "the people" aligned squarely against the aforementioned forces, or it will be no one at all. One person willing to be smeared and labeled is admirable, but pissing in a hurricane. We have to BE the hurricane. Storms form from chaos.
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as I observe my own grown children trying to carry on the family business, I am frightened for their future knowing that government will only grow larger and taxes grow greater to feed the every want and believed need of these young people.
They have been denied the information to make rational choices, and I am afraid that this was a purposeful attempt to keep them docile and willing supporters of whatever legislation the left proffers to them.
They don't seem to understand that we are guaranteed the right to the pursuit of happiness, not the right to be happy. They totally believe that their government has the right and the ability to fulfill their every want and need with a never ending flow of resources coming from the federal government without any understanding where this wealth comes from.
my fear is that we have waited too long to fight against the progressive movement to change the American culture.
You seem to know the score. Are you worrying about your children because they lean "progressive" or because they have to live in a world of "progressive"?
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My family and their spouses are squarely conservative because I have passed the family business to them and they understands the fundamentals of economic survival. One spouse even came from a family of "entitlement" style people but has become the strongest conservative among us when she sees her money going to pay for useless government handouts.
I fear for their ability to continue the business if we stay on the economic path we are on. I also have 2 grandchildren and I worry even more for them.
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My family and their spouses are squarely conservative because I have passed the family business to them and they understands the fundamentals of economic survival. One spouse even came from a family of "entitlement" style people but has become the strongest conservative among us when she sees her money going to pay for useless government handouts.
So far, so good ... and good for you.
I fear for their ability to continue the business if we stay on the economic path we are on. I also have 2 grandchildren and I worry even more for them.
I understand your fear; you have good reason to worry.
The economic path we are on will not continue because it cannot. By that I mean that either a crash is coming or an increasingly escalating decline.
There Is No Money. For every dollar the Feds spend, only 54 cents of it comes from revenue; the other 46 cents is borrowed. That's the deficit; all of that amassed borrowed 46 centses plus interest over the years is the debt, now at 16+ TRILLION dollars. You do the math.
How clear is this to your family and what are y'all doing to prepare for the suck?
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What I was meaning to express is that the progressives had a long term goal to fundamentally alter the compass direction by which we had set our country's development.
And we are there. And that is a problem.
If we are to bring it back to that direction, it will not be an overnight change, how many generations have passed through our current public schools indoctrinated to believe what the government says.
I think we need to start countering these beliefs with wisdom based on our founding principals and illustrate how following those concepts would benefit them in the long run. I don't think many of them have been confronted with an equal but alternative vision. They literally take for granted that everyone thinks their way and readily accepts the precepts they have been schooled in from kindergarten.
All true, but they need to have ears to hear and currently they do not. It is my personal belief that, much like the problem drinker or chronic drug abuser, they must hit rock bottom before they look for alternatives to the dogma which they have grown up with. Our country is now hanging by a thread in terms of economic strength and stability. We are close to a tipping point in that area. What happens after that, as you said above, no one knows. But it is, I believe, going to take something rather cataclysmic to turn things around.
We, as conservatives have trained ourselves to "hold our tongues" in public debates or risk being shouted down by uber-aggressive radicals out to promote their agenda. I think the reason Senator Cruz has so great a following is that he gives it right back.
while I am not a Senator Cruz, I think we need to develop an attitude that allows us to confront leftist ideology with well-thought out responses that appeal to the youth, especially in areas of health care and jobs
I disagree with this. I don't think that real conservatives are trained to hold our tongues. I believe that real conservatives are quite well armed with both the truth and the reasoned arguments to support the truth. Again, I believe it comes down to having ears willing to hear and we aren't there yet. The alcoholic is still getting his fix and although things aren't good for him, they aren't so bad that he is willing to seek help with his problem. He has to hit bottom.
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if doomsday is upon us you would think that Detroit would be a big sign in the sky for them. Just how bad does that city need to get before even the most dopey of the liberals cannot maintain their fantasy utopian dream of spreading the wealth?
I can understand the Obama-phone lady not understanding the situation, but journalists have to have at least some higher education and despite all their efforts, some sane education has to have taken place in their lives. How can they be cheerleading us into Armageddon?
that is what frightens me the most, either a good part of the world is delusional or I am totally on the wrong track.
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Journalists do know the score, the error is in the expectation that they will come around if only they are presented with the right argument. They, like the rest of the current intelligentsia, are actively advancing this state of affairs because they believe we need a strong, centralized state as the mechanism by which ordinary individuals will be divorced from the decision making process. They see themselves as part of an elite that has the divine right (or as close to "divine" as you'll ever get from these aggressive secularists) to be in positions of power over others. All the social and cultural ills are evidence to them that most people are too stupid and incapable to decide for themselves, and that these ills can be redressed by removing the power to decide from the individual and instead concentrating it among some modern day Druid caste. A good example is Thomas Friedman, who frequently laments that our system isn't more like China's. He marvels at the ability of the Chinese state to do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, and to whomever it wants. Rather than consider the human suffering that exists under such a system, he sees gleaming airports and highways and deems it superior to our system that necessarily sometimes encounters gridlock as a result of competing interests. It was the same in the 1930s when American journalists gushed with effusive praise for the Soviet Union and Comrade Stalin's 5 year plans of industrialization.
It's the fatal conceit of journalists, academics, bureaucrats, and other members of what Angelo Codevilla dubbed "the ruling class": they all believe in this radical transformation because they all believe they'll have a seat in the councils of power. The same was true of the Bolsheviks, many of whom promptly ended up in an unmarked grave or a Siberian gulag after the monster that they'd uncaged consumed its own revolutionaries.
As far as putting together a multi-generation pushback through education, I would certainly agree with that course of action. A few generations ago. I'm afraid we have already reached the critical mass required for the nuclear reaction that is about to take place. Speaking for myself, my overall posture and thought process have now shifted away from thinking in terms of correction, and instead to thinking in terms of survival. The opportunity to reclaim the heritage of our constitutional republic through "normal" means is now well and truly behind us, in my opinion. It is my hope that as this house of cards collapses, opportunities will present themselves to reassert classical American republicanism at least in certain regions and localities.
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wow, and I thought my belief that a good "national enema" to cleanse the system was just due to my arteries hardening a insufficient blood to the noggin. I watch congress and just don't see any means of making a change short of tea party majorities in both houses and either Cruz or Rand for president. even then the masses would riot and it would be over in 2 years.
I speak with many military people "off the record" and they feel that a drastic change is all that is left also. I would rather go to my grave watching the rebirth of this grand experiment rather than watching its demise.
and don't those "educated elite" understand history, communism failed just as badly as despotism and the many utopian community experiments. just what are they hoping to achieve that would be any different
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I can't see a collapse causing millions of ignorant people to suddenly see the light. They don't have the experience or education for even a rudimentary suspicion that they and millions of others made a wrong turn. They're not going to say "Wow, we made a mistake. We should see what the founding fathers and the other leaders of the western world taught about rights and responsibilities. Let's see what other people have learned from history so we don't reinvent the wheel." No, they will assume it's because "someone" else didn't "do" something "enough". They will blame others and assume their viewpoint is the answer. Look at education. Millions of voters actually believe if they fund education enough that we'll get better schools. People who don't agree with them are the problem.
The turn-around will come if there's a spiritual renewal. Through a spiritual renewal the individual realizes he is not the center of the universe.
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and don't those "educated elite" understand history, communism failed just as badly as despotism and the many utopian community experiments. just what are they hoping to achieve that would be any different.
LOL. They don't know history. As far as they're concerned, any failures with totalitarianism can be attributed to "the wrong people" running things. They, you see, are "the right people", thus it's not the fault of "the system" (except for the free market).
eta: And I see LV beat me to it.
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since my retirement from my business I have become bored and am in the process of starting a new on-line business. Part of the work for this is to collect timely quotes from our nations past (plus a few relative ones from history) for use on our products.
I am amazed at the amount of wisdom in these quotes. Guidelines for what we need to do are apparent in any local library or on the internet but the majority of people seem oblivious to it. Our founding fathers were truly prescient and their understanding of human nature was spot-on.
we should be flying high, how did we go so wrong.
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we should be flying high, how did we go so wrong.
Nations rise. Nations fall. It is the endless cycle of history based on human nature. To think that our nation could beat the system and survive as founded in perpetuity would be more than a little unrealistic. There really is nothing new under the sun.
I don't want to sound as if I am being dismissive with your question...providing it isn't rhetorical, which it probably is...but the explanation is in history.
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you would think we could have lasted more than a few hundred years..... especially since we had such a good plan. It makes me irritated to think that a group of communists were able to do us in almost as fast as they did in the Russians. we were so far ahead of the poor Russian peasants and we have succumbed without much of a fight. as long as the cable is working and the mall is open, we are good
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you would think we could have lasted more than a few hundred years..... especially since we had such a good plan. It makes me irritated to think that a group of communists were able to do us in almost as fast as they did in the Russians. we were so far ahead of the poor Russian peasants and we have succumbed without much of a fight. as long as the cable is working and the mall is open, we are good
Well, it ain't over yet. You'll find disagreement with that statement here, and some days you'll even hear it from me. But that's just the fact. It ain't over. All signs point to it being over. But it ain't.
A nation founded on Godly principles may yet have His Grace shed upon thee, even when it is not deserved.
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No, it's not over but the trajectory is unmistakable.
The results of the last election sealed it for me. I can see the country, stupidly, electing a marxist because they got all caught up in the ridiculous "first black president" nonsense...but, after four years of taking that car out for a spin and knowing it was a lemon, when they re-elected him...that told me it was over.
We can't survive a majority of our voters being total nincompoops. Rush said that you can't beat Santa Claus and that is another way of putting it. The majority of the voters now want free stuff and our side is not going to be promoting free stuff. So...it's over.
Not trying to be a glass half full person. Rather I am seeing the glass only a quarter full. Or less.
Plus you know that I believe that God, being in control, is allowing this to happen for a reason and that He is just getting started.
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Plus you know that I believe that God, being in control, is allowing this to happen for a reason and that He is just getting started.
I'm on the same page there with you.
It's not just about politics and people wanting free government stuff. I look at people around me and whatever their political bent it's all the same --it's me first. In personal relationships, in work relationships. I see it in my own family. They all claim to be conservative but it's all about themselves first. Always. I distinguish that from doing what's best for yourself or family (which often comes as a sacrifice).
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you would think we could have lasted more than a few hundred years..... especially since we had such a good plan.
Actually that is why it happens. We had a good plan. It created more prosperity and wealth than any other plan in human history, allowed scientific inquiry to flourish, and capital to fund it. As a result - each generation saw huge gains in quality of living - even the poorest of us. Like an abundant crop in a field, we attracted the locusts and other parasites. The useless flock to where there is plenty. The useless thrive, like rats, on just our garbage. And then they multiply, they use sheer numbers to take control, and it all falls down. We got less than two centuries because we were so very, very successful.
Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as "bad luck."-Robert Heinlein
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while everything said so far is rational, and yes, we are not santa claus, the one thing that may make a difference is what is taking place in Syria right now. Obama will either become the lamest of ducks or he will incur upon himself such wrath when his plan goes terribly wrong.
while he can charm the low info voters here, he doesn't seem able to scam the rest of the world and he is hitting the limits of his BS factor.
He won't be able to blame this one on bush and putin is playing him like a cheap violin. I see nothing good happening for him for the next 3 years except lots and lots of executive orders circumventing the constitution. hopefully we will have some legislators with enough spine to tend to that.
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you would think we could have lasted more than a few hundred years..... especially since we had such a good plan.
Actually that is why it happens. We had a good plan. It created more prosperity and wealth than any other plan in human history, allowed scientific inquiry to flourish, and capital to fund it. As a result - each generation saw huge gains in quality of living - even the poorest of us. Like an abundant crop in a field, we attracted the locusts and other parasites. The useless flock to where there is plenty. The useless thrive, like rats, on just our garbage. And then they multiply, they use sheer numbers to take control, and it all falls down. We got less than two centuries because we were so very, very successful.
Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as "bad luck."-Robert Heinlein
We did not listen to the Founders!
We are drunk on debt, drunk on too much Federal government, too brainwashed in Democracy and too illiterate on Representative Republican principles, too ashamed of God, too permissive of judicial activism, too interested in selfish wants and too disdainful of individual rights and responsibilities.
"The principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale." --Thomas Jefferson
"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt." --Thomas Jefferson, letter to Samuel Kercheval, 12 July 1816
"He that goes a borrowing goes a sorrowing." -- Benjamin Franklin (from his writings, 1758) Reference: Franklin: Writings, Lemay, ed., Library of America (1300)
"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." --Thomas Jefferson
"Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government." –James Madison
"Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition." -- Thomas Jefferson (Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XIX, 1787)
"The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite." --James Madison
"The accumulation of all powers legislative, executive and judiciary in the same hands . . . may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny." - James Madison, Federalist 47
"[D]emocracy will soon degenerate into an anarchy, such an anarchy that every man will do what is right in his own eyes and no man's life or property or reputation or liberty will be secure, and every one of these will soon mould itself into a system of subordination of all the moral virtues and intellectual abilities, all the powers of wealth, beauty, wit and science, to the wanton pleasures, the capricious will, and the execrable cruelty of one or a very few." -- John Adams (An Essay on Man's Lust for Power, 29 August 1763) Reference: Original Intent, Barton (338); original The Papers of John Adams, Taylor, ed., vol. 1 (83)
"Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide." --John Adams, letter to John Taylor, 1814
"[D]emocracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths." -- James Madison (Federalist No. 10, 23 November 1787) Reference: Madison, Federalist No. 10 (81)
"For the same reason that the members of the State legislatures will be unlikely to attach themselves sufficiently to national objects, the members of the federal legislature will be likely to attach themselves too much to local objects." -- James Madison (Federalist No. 47, 1 February 1788) Reference: Madison, Federalist No. 46.
"An elective despotism was not the government we fought for; but one in which the powers of government should be so divided and balanced among the several bodies of magistracy as that no one could transcend their legal limits without being effectually checked and restrained by the others." -- James Madison (Federalist No. 58, 1788) Reference: Madison, Federalist No. 48
"There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." -- James Madison (speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, 16 June 1788) Reference: Bartlett's Quotations (352)
"If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions." --James Madison, letter to Edmund Pendleton, 1792
"If the federal government should overpass the just bounds of its authority and make a tyrannical use of its powers, the people, whose creature it is, must appeal to the standard they have formed, and take such measures to redress the injury done to the Constitution as the exigency may suggest and prudence justify." - Alexander Hamilton (Federalist No. 33, 3 January 1788)
"Of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people, commencing demagogues and ending tyrants. " - Alexander Hamilton (Federalist No. 1, 27 October 1787) Reference: Hamilton, Federalist No. 1 (35)
"The State governments possess inherent advantages, which will ever give them an influence and ascendancy over the National Government, and will for ever preclude the possibility of federal encroachments. That their liberties, indeed, can be subverted by the federal head, is repugnant to every rule of political calculation." -- Alexander Hamilton (speech to the New York Ratifying Convention, 17 June 1788) Reference: The Works of Alexander Hamilton, Henry Cabot Lodge, ed., vol.2 (17)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." --Benjamin Franklin
"And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever." --Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, Query 18, 1781
"...[R]eason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle." –George Washington
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams (Address to the Military, 11 October 1798) Reference: America's God and Country (10-11)
"Statesmen by dear Sir, may plan and speculate for Liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand....The only foundation of a free Constitution, is pure Virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People, in a great Measure, than they have it now, They may change their Rulers, and the forms of Government, but they will not obtain a lasting Liberty." -- John Adams (letter to Zabdiel Adams, 21 June 1776) Reference: Our Sacred Honor, Bennett, pg. 371.
"The belief in a God All Powerful wise and good, is so essential to the moral order of the world and to the happiness of man, that arguments which enforce it cannot be drawn from too many sources nor adapted with too much solicitude to the different characters and capacities impressed with it." -- James Madison (letter to Frederick Beasley, 20 November 1825) Reference: Writings of Madison, Hunt, ed., vol. 9 (230)
"...[N]atural liberty is a gift of the beneficent Creator to the whole human race...." --Alexander Hamilton
"If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it?" -- Benjamin Franklin (to Thomas Paine, Date Unknown) Reference: Original Intent, Barton (297); original The Works of Benjamin Franklin, Sparks, ed., vol. 10 (281-282)
"Religion and good morals are the only solid foundation of public liberty and happiness." --Samuel Adams
"The Constitution on which our Union rests, shall be administered ... according to the safe and honest meaning contemplated by the plain understanding of the people of the United States at the time of its adoption...." --Thomas Jefferson
"The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If 'Thou shalt not covet' and 'Thou shalt not steal' were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free." --John Adams, A Defense of the American Constitutions, 1787
"But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever." --John Adams
"Nothing has yet been offered to invalidate the doctrine that the meaning of the Constitution may as well be ascertained by the Legislative as by the Judicial authority." -- James Madison (speech in the Congress of the United States, 18 June 1789)
"It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man who knows what the law is today can guess what it will be to-morrow." --James Madison (likely), Federalist No. 62, 1788
"With respect to the two words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." --James Madison
"Each State, in ratifying the Constitution, is considered as a sovereign body, independent of all others, and only to be bound by its own voluntary act. In this relation, then, the new Constitution will, if established, be a FEDERAL, and not a NATIONAL constitution." --James Madison, Federalist No. 39
"The middle way is no way at all, If we finally fail in this great and glorious contest, it will be by bewildering ourselves in groping for the middle way." - John Adams, Congressional Delegate in a letter to General Horatio Gates, March 1776: John Adams, David McCullough, Simon & Schuster, 2001 (100-101)
And when all else fails, when politics has run its course and people in States or any other locally organized entity are denied to leave the Federal Charter peacefully, our Founders left only one remaining option. But our current rulers would take that option away from us.
“To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.” --Richard Henry Lee
"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? It is feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American. ...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --A Pennsylvanian, The Pennsylvania Gazette, 20 February 1788
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." --Cesare Beccaria, On Crimes and Punishment, quoted by Thomas Jefferson in Commonplace Book
"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress ... to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.... " --Samuel Adams
"No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms." --Thomas Jefferson
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." --Thomas Jefferson
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Even if we can right the political ship, it will be hollow victory if the nation crumbles under its own weight. Obama being brought low may be satisfying if and when it happens, but it will fix nothing but politics. Our problems are certainly in large part due to and exacerbated by politics and politicians, but we could wipe them all from the face of the earth and replace them with Ronald Reagan clones, and many of the dangers now faced by our nation would be as avoidable as Titanic's iceberg.
We're on a trajectory. Humiliating defeat of Democrats is not what it will take to change that.
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while everything said so far is rational, and yes, we are not santa claus, the one thing that may make a difference is what is taking place in Syria right now. Obama will either become the lamest of ducks or he will incur upon himself such wrath when his plan goes terribly wrong.
while he can charm the low info voters here, he doesn't seem able to scam the rest of the world and he is hitting the limits of his BS factor.
He won't be able to blame this one on bush and putin is playing him like a cheap violin. I see nothing good happening for him for the next 3 years except lots and lots of executive orders circumventing the constitution. hopefully we will have some legislators with enough spine to tend to that.
I disagree on Obama becoming a lame duck or incurring much wrath, the lapdog media and feckless GOP leadership virtually assures that.
PeacePrize will forge ahead one way or another in Syria, his monumental ego, Dem contributors & obedience to the House of Saud precludes him from not acting in one manner or another.
We are documenting the Syrian Debacle here (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?topic=8784.80) if you would like to join that discussion.
As far as Cruz and a few other principled leaders go, we are outnumbered, but they are making points as best they can, unless a titanic change in leadership occurs (not that we have time to right this ship) little will change. At best hoping for stalemate may be the best we can realistically expect, but I fear little headway in combating the decrees of PeacePrize as presently constituted. We'll see what sport 2014 brings, alas that is a long time off...and, aforementioned "too late" still lurks.
Anyway, good discussion! Welcome to our Forum, hope to see some more contributions! ::thumbsup::
Oh, and invite some friends! ;)
ETA - And regarding previous posts about conservative leaders, how could we forget Mark Levin?! ::facepalm::
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I have totally enjoyed my first posting and I will return another day. good to hear from like-minded individuals. my time spent on the Washington post sites were wearisome and futile. this was much more up-lifting and refreshing although the subject matter does get dire at times.
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I have totally enjoyed my first posting and I will return another day. good to hear from like-minded individuals. my time spent on the Washington post sites were wearisome and futile. this was much more up-lifting and refreshing although the subject matter does get dire at times.
Sign of the times, it is what it is. Glad to have you drop in and contribute! ::thumbsup::
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I have totally enjoyed my first posting and I will return another day. good to hear from like-minded individuals. my time spent on the Washington post sites were wearisome and futile. this was much more up-lifting and refreshing although the subject matter does get dire at times.
Please return and welcome.
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I have totally enjoyed my first posting and I will return another day. good to hear from like-minded individuals. my time spent on the Washington post sites were wearisome and futile. this was much more up-lifting and refreshing although the subject matter does get dire at times.
that's for adding to the conversation
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wow, and I thought my belief that a good "national enema" to cleanse the system was just due to my arteries hardening a insufficient blood to the noggin. I watch congress and just don't see any means of making a change short of tea party majorities in both houses and either Cruz or Rand for president. even then the masses would riot and it would be over in 2 years.
I believe we are well past the point of no return. Be sure to check out the TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it ) section. Many of us are learning how to weather this storm. None of us have answers, but there are lots of ideas, and it gives you something practical to put your efforts into as it becomes more and more obvious that your efforts are wasted elsewhere.
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I have totally enjoyed my first posting and I will return another day. good to hear from like-minded individuals. my time spent on the Washington post sites were wearisome and futile. this was much more up-lifting and refreshing although the subject matter does get dire at times.
It's nice to have you here. Excellent first thread!
Dire subject matter, indeed. We live in dire times, and are doing the best we can here to discuss the situation openly, without the cacophony of Leftist trolls. But dire comes in many flavors here. We are not monolithic in thought, just joined in cause and concern.
For the absence of Leftists, we may be accused of being an "echo chamber". But that is because this site is comprised of people who have commented at other sites for years, and who have heard every lie the Leftists have to tell. Nothing they have to say is of any value whatsoever, aside from the insight their utterances give us into the mindset of our enemy. We don't need to converse with them for that insight - we only need to listen.
So we listen, and discuss amongst ourselves. Discussing the enemy with friends is dire. If and when we want to engage Leftists, there are always a myriad of places on the web we can poke our heads out and skewer them to their faces. This place is our refuge. Welcome to it.
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I can't see a collapse causing millions of ignorant people to suddenly see the light.
No, but not being able to eat as a result will have an effect. Lefties are incapable of seeing the results of what they advocate until it actually comes home to live. They will get it in the end. But too late to do anything about it. Yes, they will blame others ( what is leftism about if it isn't about avoiding personal responsibility ?) and say whatever they think they need to say to wheedle the next handout. As always, the question is if they realize, in there heart of heart they were wrong.
The turn-around will come if there's a spiritual renewal. Through a spiritual renewal the individual realizes he is not the center of the universe.
There are many who are just self-involved because they were never taught any other way to be. When it becomes obvious no one will feed them, they might very well step up and do what is required to feed themselves. I don't know if that is spiritual revival so much as reality finely holding sway. God is in the center of that obviously, be folks who were disinclined to question the unthinking narcissism they were indoctrinated with, are probably not ever going to be self-aware enough to notice there is a God.
The true believer lefty of course won't get that far - and will curse the Conservatives to the bitter end for expecting them to provide for themselves. Their suffering while they starve and wail at how unfair it all is they have to work to eat is really the only highlight to look forward to in what is coming.
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my time spent on the Washington post sites were wearisome and futile
To survive that with IQ intact is an amazing accomplishment. I look forward to more of your posts.