It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => Faith & Family => Topic started by: IronDioPriest on October 01, 2013, 05:27:46 PM
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We've seen all or most of these, but it is quite shocking to read them in an actual compare/contrast context.
Link from "thenattyconservative"...
20 Obama Quotes About Islam Contrasted With 20 Obama Quotes About Christianity (http://www.thenattyconservative.com/20-obama-quotes-about-islam-contrasted-with-20-obama-quotes-about-christianity/)
You are about to read some of the most shocking quotes that Barack Obama has ever uttered in public. A few of these have been widely circulated, but most of them are very obscure. Even though he claims to be a Christian, throughout his political career Obama has repeatedly attacked traditional Biblical Christianity and he has a very long history of anti-Christian actions. In public speeches he has repeatedly cast doubt on the Bible, he has repeatedly stated that he does not believe that Jesus is necessary for salvation, and he has consistently said that he believes that all “people of faith” believe in the same God. At the same time, Obama has always referred to Muhammed as “the Prophet”, he has always expressed great love and respect for Islam, and he has even removed all references to Islam from terror training materials used by federal government agencies. So what in the world does “the leader of the free world” actually believe? Read the quotes below and decide for yourself…
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#7 Obama’s response when asked what his definition of sin is: “Being out of alignment with my values.”
#9 “This is something that I’m sure I’d have serious debates with my fellow Christians about. I think that the difficult thing about any religion, including Christianity, is that at some level there is a call to evangelize and prostelytize. There’s the belief, certainly in some quarters, that people haven’t embraced Jesus Christ as their personal savior that they’re going to hell.”
Okay, got that? That's a couple of Obongo's "thoughts" on Christianity.
Now, I want you to read and think carefully about the following as it applies to the above:
Your Holiness, is there is a single vision of the Good? And who decides what it is?
“Each of us has a vision of good and of evil. We have to encourage people to move towards what they think is Good.”
Your Holiness, you wrote that in your letter to me. The conscience is autonomous, you said, and everyone must obey his conscience. I think that’s one of the most courageous steps taken by a Pope.
“And I repeat it here. Everyone has his own idea of good and evil and must choose to follow the good and fight evil as he conceives them. That would be enough to make the world a better place.”
“Proselytism is solemn nonsense, it makes no sense. We need to get to know each other, listen to each other and improve our knowledge of the world around us. Sometimes after a meeting I want to arrange another one because new ideas are born and I discover new needs. This is important: to get to know people, listen, expand the circle of ideas. The world is crisscrossed by roads that come closer together and move apart, but the important thing is that they lead towards the Good.”
That's right, it's the Pope saying these heretical things.
Marxists, both of them. And the first one is, if not a 'slim, a lover of and sympathizer with. The second is not a Catholic.
http://www.barnhardt.biz/2013/10/01/the-gospel-rewritten-by-pope-francis/ (http://www.barnhardt.biz/2013/10/01/the-gospel-rewritten-by-pope-francis/)
http://www.thinkinghousewife.com/wp/2013/10/bergoglio-bomb-of-the-day-2/ (http://www.thinkinghousewife.com/wp/2013/10/bergoglio-bomb-of-the-day-2/)
And, finally ....
Below are astute Catholic commentators poised to respond to the interview. They will say he didn’t really say what he said.
(http://www.thinkinghousewife.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/sheep_herd.jpg)
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Hmmmm... I hadn't seen those quotes from the Pope.
Problematic, to say the very least. Heretical indeed. Sounds more like the Dalai Lama than the leader of the largest Christian church in the world.
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I think this is a Pope which requires reading the whole interview and not stripped out comments. And then a fruitful discussion can be had. (This is no different than when Bush, Reagan or Palin is headlined and misquoted and then you go read the interview and you discover it's not all as it seems.)
http://www.repubblica.it/cultura/2013/10/01/news/pope_s_conversation_with_scalfari_english-67643118/ (http://www.repubblica.it/cultura/2013/10/01/news/pope_s_conversation_with_scalfari_english-67643118/)
I read Barnhardt's bio and decided I don't have much use for her. She sounds like she doesn't like the Catholic Church she joined a few years ago and now longs for the way it used to be--some romantic view that existed in the movies of the 40's and 50's and thus sees everything through that lens. She's no different than the liberal Catholics who are pining for the Catholic church they want.
I was discussing this with a young Catholic today-- she explained that the good the Pope references is based on Catholic teaching that the natural law is written on everyone's heart by God --and that if they seek the good they will find it. The good ultimately being God. (I hope I got that right.) So the Pope's use of Good in the interview is about Good capital G not whatever anyone person thinks as good (and feels like doing). At least that's how it seems to me. So a primitive people can seek good as written on their heart by God and never meet a missionary to hear about Jesus. That it is contrary to many Christian beliefs but that is the Catholic view.
Half the interview is spent discussing the saints he likes. ( I don't think Marxists are particularly fond of saints. I pretty sure that the church has canonized people who were killed by Marxists, communists etc.) I find it interesting that Barnhardt failed to mention that part of the interview. She has an agenda and I don't trust anyone who can't address the whole interview.
Several Saturdays ago the Pope held a 4-hour prayer event in St. Peter's square to pray for peace and no war with Syria. That impressed me as he was there the whole time. He didn't just ask everyone to pray he held the event and he stayed for it.
I guess it's my training as a lawyer but one thing I learned way back when was never to believe the case notes (the summary of cases)-- read the dang cases yourself.
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" Saints " are proclaimed by mortals and not by God . I therefore have a problem with "Sainthood" .
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" Saints " are proclaimed by mortals and not by God . I therefore have a problem with "Sainthood" .
Yeah, but they say they are His agents on earth, so...nice how that works...but yes, let us have a discussion on infallibility.
Not saying some folks weren't good and did good things...just sayin' the process seems...curious.
Anyway, more on the “solemn nonsense” here - Pope Francis and the Atheist (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/pope-francis-stirs-debate-yet-again-with-interview-with-an-atheist-italian-journalist/2013/10/01/9e7a6790-2acb-11e3-97a3-ff2758228523_print.html)
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My point wasn't about the church making people saints but if you're Catholic as Barnhardt then you believe in the saints so why not include that bit of information and discussion in your post about the Pope? Rather than pull out a couple of quotes that suits your agenda? I find it hard to believe a Marxist is going to be an admirer of saints. Perhaps Barnhardt can't quite reconcile that either so she ignored it.
I'm rather tired of people like her who want to neatly put everyone she has a problem with in one tidy little box. She has a problem with the Catholic church. She's no different than those nuns I saw on tv who want the church to allow female priests. So everything they see in the church is through that prism.
I'm guess I'm lucky the Catholics I know are quite willing to have a discussion that involves a give and take that recognizes the failings of their church while at the same time acknowledging the good they've done. So people like Barhhardt discussing religion annoy me.