It's About Liberty: A Conservative Forum
Topics => General Board => Topic started by: trapeze on April 16, 2011, 12:45:31 AM
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Internet poker has just gone up in smoke. I am guessing that this is probably somehow connected to the moron Senate majority leader from Nevada. The following can be found when visiting the PokerStars (http://www.pokerstars.com/) website. Or the FullTiltPoker (http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/) website.
(http://www.pokerstars.com/banner7.jpg)
Story from the WSJ to be found here. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704628404576265060852516194.html?mod=WSJ_hp_mostpop_read)
[blockquote]Eleven people, including the founders of three of the largest online poker companies doing business in the U.S., have been charged in the largest crackdown on Internet poker by U.S. authorities.
The charges set up a long-awaited showdown between the sites, which claim millions of U.S. players and billions in revenue, and the federal government, which has long alleged that their operations are illegal. The sites claim they do not violate federal laws pertaining to Internet gambling, in part because poker, they say, is not gambling.
The charges were accompanied by the shutting down of some popular sites that operate online poker and sent ripples through gambling communities. They also led Friday to the abrupt cancellation of recently announced alliances between poker sites and casino companies.
"This is seismic," said James Kilsby, an editor for Gambling Compliance, a website which tracks regulatory issues. "It's a game changer."
Federal prosecutors in Manhattan have alleged the poker companies, which are located outside the U.S., tried to sidestep U.S. laws prohibiting banks and credit-card issuers from processing gambling payments by disguising billions of dollars from U.S. gamblers as payments to nonexistent online merchants for golf balls, jewelry, flowers and other merchandise.[/blockquote]
Just guessing but I would say that there are about a million or so US online poker players that now have time on their hands to do something else. Local Tea Party orgs might see an influx in new freedom activists.
Damn, I hate the federal government. Kill unborn babies all day long with taxpayer's money but we just can't allow consenting adults to play poker outside of Vegas, Atlantic City or any of the dozens of Indian casinos.
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FullTiltPoker press release (http://www.scribd.com/doc/53118084/Full-Tilt-Poker-Statement-Pulling-Out-of-US-Market)
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I see. The Feds want their skim and are outraged they're not getting it from, supposedly, free individuals indulging in this particular pastime.
You do know we're getting close, right ...........
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Players React to U.S. Online Poker Crackdown (http://www.pokernewsdaily.com/players-react-to-u-s-online-poker-crackdown-18789/)
[blockquote]The Twitterverse exploded this afternoon following the announcement that the U.S. Department of Justice had indicted the ownership behind such American-friendly online poker as PokerStars, Full Tilt Poker, UB.com, and Absolute Poker. The DoJ has issued arrest warrants against 11 owners of these sites for several transgressions, including money laundering, bank fraud, and violations of the 2006 Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act.
“Ummmm this can’t be good… GG online poker,” asserted Christian “charder30” Harder over his Twitter feed.
Poker super agent Brian Balsbaugh commented over Twitter, “Words I’m hearing: ‘Interpol,’ ‘Seizure,’ and ‘Disenfranchise.’” Poker’s Godfather, Doyle Brunson, observed, “The DOJ must not have anything much to do. They just indicted 11 people from Full Tilt, UB, and PokerStars.”
The World Poker Tour’s “Raw Deal” host Tony “Bond_18” Dunst stated, “Seems s**t is hitting the fan in the U.S., be interesting to see how this pans out.”
Following the release of the indictment against the four major U.S.-facing sites, players began to notice that they were being blocked from access to PokerStars, Full Tilt, Absolute Poker, and UB.com. “PokerStars already blocking U.S. customers from real money games,” Jonathan “FatalError” Aguiar Tweeted on Friday afternoon. “The Mayans were only 18 months off predicting the end of the world, pretty impressive.”[/blockquote]
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Found on the 2+2 Poker Forum site (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57/poker-legislation/former-lawyers-take-1020984/). A post from a lawyer:
[blockquote]Quick Bio, I graduated from UT Austin with a general finance degree before getting my law degree from Georgetown. I worked as general in house council for probably the most infamous (clue: vampire squid) investment bank on the street during their tango with the Department of Justice last year. I think this situation is very similar.
I currently work for an energy fund in texas with a financial processing center located in the Caymans, mostly handling inflowing investment capital, so I also have a working knowledge of how these online poker sites handle their capital inflow.
I play poker casually on stars, one of my best friends plays poker for a living, so I have a dog in this fight.
That said, I have some general things to say:
1.) No company has ever survived an indictment by the DOJ. Ever. (I’m not talking about a criminal investigation, but actual charges – as in this situation)
2.) In this thread, a lot of people are implying that class actions suits or speaking with their representatives would help… Working with the DOJ in procuring information about my firm has convinced me of the contrary:
a.) the DOJ isn’t some “organization” you can pressure – they don’t really answer to the mass of voters because they aren’t elected.
b.) The DOJ isn’t an entity you can make fold or bring suit against. They will absolutely deflect opposing litigation – think sovereign immunity. I know it’s difficult to imagine that in our American democracy anyone who is above the law, but the DOJ can basically skirt constitutional law at will. They never proved our bank did anything “unlawful” but we still paid a $500 million fine. It was basically an excise tax on financial institutions and allowed the DOJ to not lose face. There was NO legal precedence for it. Which leads to my last point:
c.) No amount of connection will alleviate the situation (hence why convincing your representative is pointless). My firm was the most connected firm on the street. Many of our alum are working in high ranking positions in the government (they run the Treasury department). We still paid a fine.
3.) Processing inflowing capital has very stringent requirements – even if you’re located abroad. If the DOJ has made a formal indictment then you can be sure they HAVE a case. And even if they don’t there won’t be enough confidence left in either of the big 3 poker sites for players (from the States) to ever flock back (see: Arther Andersen). And even if the case falls flat Pokerstars/Tilt/etc will be forced into a settlement and you’ll be looking at a fine upwards $1 billion , USD.
4. you should attempt to withdrawal your money. I can only imagine some are recommending against it because they already have, and are afraid that because online poker sites don’t have “side pockets” that the effect will be similar to a “run on a bank.” While this is true, I’d urge you to try and withdrawal now.
The Department of Justice doesn’t lose – and in the rare instance that it do, they still raze the questionable firm to the ground.
Seek any recourse you can but get out now – whether it’s $500 or $50,000.[/blockquote]
I am wondering who the 11 indicted people are and what they are facing in terms of fines and jail time. Names of most have yet to be released but I am guessing that in the case of FullTilt there will be some very famous poker players included. FullTilt was set up after a lot of famous players decided that they were being taken advantage of by big outfits. The World Poker Tour which was televised on the Travel Channel for years was notorious for running promotions, etc. that dropped names without compensating the players a dime. The players got pissed off and decided to start their own operation and the result was FullTilt.
So... maybe Howard Lederer or Chris Ferguson or Phil Ivey or Jennifer Harmon. I guess the news will break eventually.
EDIT: Okay we now know who was indicted. See post here. (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,1046.msg11238.html#msg11238)
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One place says $3 billion in fines and up to 30 year prison sentences for the bank and wire fraud charges.
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So...there almost certainly were violations of US law and some people will lose all of their money and go to jail for a very long time. That sucks for them but if they broke the law and made millions doing it then they will have to answer for it.
That's the conservative law and order side of me talking.
However, the liberty and freedom side of me is thinking that the DOJ goes after companies all of the time but has never shut down an entire industry. Especially not an industry with over a million active and daily participating customers. Happy customers. Customers whose money in online poker site accounts will end up being confiscated. Customers who are now deprived of their favorite leisure time activity. Some customers who depend on this activity for their very livelihood. So I'm thinking that there are about a million people who will be doing a slow burn until the next election. Because this mess won't be settled by then.
Online players will play for hours per day and now they have time on their hands. And they are pissed. This is a huge opportunity for the Tea Party.
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That sucks for them but if they broke the law .....
Law? US law, as in Federal law?
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That sucks for them but if they broke the law .....
Law? US law, as in Federal law?
I am pretty sure that wire fraud is covered by US federal laws.
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Story about the jerk who made all of this mayhem possible. (http://www.businessinsider.com/boy-genius-online-poker-scandal-2011-4)
[blockquote]Daniel Tzvetkoff knows the operations of these poker sites inside and out. It was knowledge of the financial industry that allowed them to operate. He's the one man positioned to give the U.S. Attorneys everything they needed to take down their businesses.
And it looks like that's exactly what he did, cooperating with the authorities to avoid his own lengthy jail sentence.
All the major gambling prosecutions in the U.S. since Tzvetkoff's arrest have been run out of the office of Arlo Devlin-Brown, the Manhattan Asst. U.S. Attorney who is Tzvetkoff's "handler."
According to a source, Tzvetkoff "knows how to reverse-engineer transactions to determine its original source," making him very valuable to investigators.
And the biggest irony of all? It's been rumored that the only reason the FBI got their hands on him is because Full Tilt or Poker Stars (the companies he used to work for and stole from) tipped off the FBI that he was going to be traveling to the United States last year.
They ratted him out ... and he turned the tables. No honor among thieves.
And as the Courier Mail put it, if this were still the old days, he'd buried in the Las Vegas desert right now.[/blockquote]
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More on the weasel here. (http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/web-kings-life-on-the-line/story-fn6ck45n-1226039907165)
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That sucks for them but if they broke the law .....
Law? US law, as in Federal law?
I am pretty sure that wire fraud is covered by US federal laws.
And. US Federal laws against games involving wagering between individuals are covered by ... hmmm, can't quite put my finger on it ... which section of the Constitution again?
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...the DOJ can basically skirt constitutional law at will...
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Just cross posted this thread to the Mark Levin Facebook page.
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I heard about this last night on the radio around 11:00 p.m. est while driving home with my son. I was interested because my best friend plays small tournaments at Poker Stars with an initial ante of no more than $25. Basically, about 400 players enter a game, and they play until there is one player left. The last 15 or so make it to the money level where they at least cover their initial outlay. Their "winnings" are then deposited in their (non-FDIC insured) account for future ventures. You have to have a valid checking account and deposits to your account can only be made by e-check. They used to take credit cards but that was changed. I suppose there are tourneys with larger antes by my friend does this more for entertainment and relaxation. (The most he ever won in a tourney was about five grand.)
The part I was most interested in when I read the Drudge linked articles is that the Feds seized three billion dollars. That is $3,000,000,000.00. But it was the money of all of the players that they took. What do you think, now the players are gonna apply to get their money back? Sure. Just as soon as they identify themselves with their social security number. Audit time!
BTW, when I woke up this a.m. after thinking about this, I thought of the article I read yesterday about the Holy Land Foundation/CAIR investigation that was dropped for political reasons. See my article (cross-posted at Red State, btw) http://www.redstate.com/bigalsouth/2011/04/16/fbi-shuts-down-intenet-poker-cair-no-problem/ (http://www.redstate.com/bigalsouth/2011/04/16/fbi-shuts-down-intenet-poker-cair-no-problem/) and here at IAL
http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,1048.0.html (http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,1048.0.html) (Sorry, Trap. I was trying to post my thoughts before I read this thread)
The two events are an interesting look into the Holder/Obama Justice Department. I suppose that if the poker players used some of their proceeds to finance Islamic terror, Holder would have given them a pass.
I really despise those bastards at Justice. . .
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Can the online gambling houses move their operations off shore?
That's what cruise ships do. Like shopping online with stores off shore isn't it? so it isn't wire fraud?
I rilly don't know.??
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Can the online gambling houses move their operations off shore?
That's what cruise ships do. Like shopping online with stores off shore isn't it? so it isn't wire fraud?
I rilly don't know.??
Technically, . . ., the poker servers were offshore. The Feds are nailing them on a money laundering charge alleging that the credit card payments were disguised as "purchases" for non-existent goods. This practice was changed in the last twelve months, but too late for the poker execs.
All I know is this: If they guys are convicted, they are gone. Long freakin gone. Under Federal Sentencing "Guidelines" the sentencing level gets juiced up based on the amount "laundered." Three Billion? Hell, those guys are lucky if the Feds let them plea bargain for a 25 year term.
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I just don't know what happens to people when they get a bit of money and feel the lust for more. When does the switch go off in the brain to make one believe that they can commit massive fraud and crimes that amount to billions of dollars, and not eventually be discovered? It's like a form of insanity.
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This whole mess started with the Frist Senate of 2006. They tucked the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act or UIGEA (http://www.pokerxanadu.com/pokerlaw/uigea.pdf) into the Security and Accountability For Every Port Act of 2006 or SAFE Port Act. The port security provisions were one of 20 bills introduced to Congress in the wake of the Dubai Ports World controversy that aimed to block Dubai Ports World acquiring P&O Ports, and more generally to stop key US ports falling into the hands of foreign owners by changing the Exon-Florio Amendment*.
The SAFE Act was supposed to be a sop to the religious right 'cause gambling is bad and all. It was supposed to guarantee that the moronic Republican congress of that time (you know, the ones who spent like drunken sailors, the ones who GWB just couldn't bring himself to ever say no to in the form of a veto) would be re-elected. Instead we got four years of Pelosi/Reid combined with two years of the Toonces presidency.
Anyway, internet gambling was totally legal until the Republican brain trust of 2006 decided they would try and legislate a last minute victory with the far right base. Well, I'm part of that far right base and I play poker and it did nothing but piss me right off. The part of the base that was supposed to be excited by all of this legislative morality yawned and stayed home rather than vote for more of the same spendaholic behavior. Two years later we get HopenChange. The Stupid Party does it again.
The UIGEA made all of the previously legal transactions between consenting adults illegal. This caused legitimate poker site funding companies to either leave the US or go out of business entirely. And that left a vacuum. The UIGEA did not specifically make online poker illegal but instead made it nearly impossible to fund a poker account. The poker sites responded with "creative financing" which is what their owners are now be charged with fraud and money laundering over.
*this last sentence is a cut and paste job from wikipedia.
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The UIGEA made all of the previously legal transactions between consenting adults illegal.
That's what pisses me off most about the government, that they can make formerly legal acts illegal with the stoke of a pen. I'm pretty sure the Founders didn't envision that.
Time to trot out my favorite Ayn Rand quote:
"Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We WANT them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against--then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one MAKES them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted--and you create a nation of law-breakers--and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."
--Ayn Rand, "Atlas Shrugged" (1957)
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So what's next?
I guess a dozen or more (very likely quite a few more after those initially charged try to reduce their jail time by cutting a deal) will go to prison and lose everything they own.
Meanwhile guess who will be going into the online poker business? That's right, the federal government. They will soon begin to issue godawful expensive online poker site licenses (renewable as frequently as possible) to their friends (crony capitalism). Then they will institute new rules so that the players get taxed to the max. I imagine that it will go something like this:
I will be taxed on every poker hand that I win. There will be no credit for losing. It will not matter if I have a net losing session. If I win a hundred hands and then lose it all on the last hand I will be out my losses plus all of the taxes previously assessed for the winning hands. The house always wins. The feds always win. Me? Not so much.
I would also expect the feds to take the approach with online poker that they have taken with tobacco for decades. They will start out with very small and "reasonable" taxes. And then gradually they will increase the taxes, for the children. Keep it legal because they like the revenue but make it so pricey that it hurts everyone but the rich to play 'cause gambling is bad.
Meanwhile, those who used to play for pennies because it was fun, cheap and harmless will be forced to visit a brick and mortar casino (or a private game) to get their poker fix. Their losses (because most people suck at poker...it's a game of skill, not gambling. If it was gambling then everyone would have an even chance at winning. You don't play against the house in poker like you do with other games.) would be bigger. Much bigger. That's because "live" operations can't spread penny ante play...you can't afford the brick and mortar overhead with anything less than $200 buy-in games.
So bottom line here is the feds are going to be getting into the poker business and everyone else involved will be the poorer for it.
I really hate the federal government.
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So bottom line here is the feds are going to be getting into the poker business and everyone else involved will be the poorer for it.
Why not? State governments are already involved in lotteries.
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The UIGEA made all of the previously legal transactions between consenting adults illegal.
That's what pisses me off most about the government, that they can make formerly legal acts illegal with the stoke of a pen. I'm pretty sure the Founders didn't envision that.
Time to trot out my favorite Ayn Rand quote:
"Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We WANT them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against--then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one MAKES them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted--and you create a nation of law-breakers--and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."
--Ayn Rand, "Atlas Shrugged" (1957)
This justice department already has the selective enforcement aspect of this dynamic fully in play. We truly are at a place where just about everyone breaks one law or another in the course of a given day. With a government willingly prosecuting some and not others - willing to pick and choose which laws to enforce and which to ignore - we are literally under a totalitarian thumb, and the loss of liberty is just a matter of degree. The only thing missing is people disappearing in the middle of the night and never being heard from again. If that is not a next step in the evolution of selective justice where an all-powerful federal government is the arbiter, then I am hard-pressed to define what the next step would be.
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The UIGEA made all of the previously legal transactions between consenting adults illegal.
That's what pisses me off most about the government, that they can make formerly legal acts illegal with the stoke of a pen. I'm pretty sure the Founders didn't envision that.
...
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The Bass brothers "silver scam" is another example. They were making too much money and the gov wanted it.
Thank you Trap for recalling another good reason to remember Bill Frist and to remember his friends, John McCain and Fred Thompson.
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...the DOJ can basically skirt constitutional law at will...
Exactly my point. However "law-abiding" one may be, once the laws exceed the authority by which the government was loaned from the people to make them, "law-abiding" becomes a senseless concept.
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...the DOJ can basically skirt constitutional law at will...
Exactly my point. However "law-abiding" one may be, once the laws exceed the authority by which the government was loaned from the people to make them, "law-abiding" becomes a senseless concept.
It's a post-modern third world kind of a thing.
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And they most definitely pick winners.
The UIGEA specifically allows online horse race bets. Gee, I wonder why?
Also allowed are "state run" lotteries.
Fantasy sports leagues area also exempted.
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One more thing...
Obama and Holder have made a bit of strategic mistake here. When you are oppressing the peasants you are supposed to provide bread and circuses. Online poker was most definitely a circus-like distraction for millions of bitter clingers.
Now that it's gone a lot of people are going to be forced to do other things...like talk more with the wife.
This is really gonna piss a lot of people off.
So a strategic error by Toonces.
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This also goes to show you what "justice" is about to the State. Every day we see examples of true subhuman scumbags getting off on technicalities, paroled early, or given light sentences. But you do anything to disrupt the State's sense of entitlement to ever-expanding revenues? They drop the Hammer of Thor on your ass.
That's, in short, what is wrong with our country. The government has long since forgotten about some notional "consent of the governed" or "to protect and serve" ideas. It exists for the sake of furthering its existence. I'm not sure where the study was done, but there is a fascinating examination of how large organizations -- governments, businesses, non-profit groups -- inevitably evolve into being more about the furtherance of the organization itself than the original mission that provoked its founding in the first place.
The government has become a malignancy in the body of the country. Just as the cells of your body differentiate, group together into specialized tissues that perform important functions (organs), they can eventually grow unchecked and further their own differentiated tissue at the expense of the organic bodily whole. When that happens we call it cancer. Our government is a cancerous malignancy.
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Finally found the names of the indicted...
[blockquote]The indictment lists five founders of the poker companies: Isai Scheinberg and Paul Tate of PokerStars, Raymond Bitar and Nelson Burtnick of Full Tilt Poker and Scott Tom and Brent Beckley of Absolute Poker.
“These defendants, knowing full well that their business with U.S. customers and U.S. banks was illegal, tried to stack the deck,” said Janice Fedarcyk, assistant director-in-charge at the FBI. “The defendants bet the house that they could continue their scheme, and they lost."
The U.S. also charged “highly compensated payment processors,” including Ryan Lang, Ira Rubin, Bradley Franzen and Chad Elie.
According to the indictment, these individuals obtained accounts at U.S. banks for the poker companies by lying about the nature of the transactions and covering up those lies by creating phone corporations and Web sites.
[/blockquote]
From FNC. (http://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/2011/04/15/goes-versus-online-poker-sites/)
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Well, I cashed out at PokerStars. I have no idea if it will actually result in my money returning to my bank account but time will tell. A few minutes ago I received this email notiifcation:
Cashout request time: 2011/04/16 17:55 ET
Cashout amount: USD $*****
USD $***** will be submitted for processing to your ECHECK account (1***************6*9*).
Credit transaction #*******89
Please allow 72 hours for processing of ECHECK cashouts and another 3-10 business days for the funds to be available in your ECHECK account balance.
It wasn't very much money and it wouldn't have killed me to lose it but I decided that I would rather have it than let the Toonces mob get it. Which is what will eventually happen if things move along their present course.
On the other hand there are a great number of players that play online for a living. No kidding. They make several thousand a month just like a real job. Most of them even file legitimate tax returns on their earnings...the smart ones do anyway. If their money gets tied up now some of them may not be able to pay their taxes. Irony. And stupidity (Obama's). And of course they will now join the ranks of the jobless with little to no hope of replacing their online income. Even if they happen to live next to a brick and mortar casino they will not be able to play enough hands/hr to equal what they did online.
Professional online players will play 8+ hours a day...usually 12 or more...from the comfort of their homes. They will play four or more games simultaneously and will go through 75 to 100 hands per hour per game. That is simply not possible to match in the real world where cards have to be physically shuffled and dealt, where live players are allowed much more latitude in time to make decisions but most importantly, where you can only sit at one table.
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From the 2+2 Poker Forum site (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57/poker-legislation/heres-cliffs-full-doj-indictment-1021606/) here is an excerpt from what is billed as the "Cliff Notes" version of the 9 count indictment...
- Count 8 is probably the most problematic for the sites, since it's the only one that doesn't appear to be anchored to the question of whether online poker is unlawful internet gambling. In other words, even if the DOJ were to concede as much, I'm not sure it exonerates any of the defendants from the charge that they fraudulently opened bank accounts and disguised the nature of gambling transactions, which is a clear violation of the law, no matter how the 'unlawful internet gambling' part comes out.
- re: Count 8, I don't know what the poker sites' defense strategy will be, but I would *guess* it will be trying to distance themselves from the 3rd party payment processors ("PPs"). They'll probably claim that they merely worked with PPs who promised them that they could process transactions with US banks/customers, and that they (the sites) didn't know anything about how the PPs accomplished that: i.e. "Hey, we had a contract with the PPs to process the transactions, but we had no idea that they were lying to US banks to get it done." Unfortunately, that strategy seems to be substantially undercut by the nature of internal poker site docs, which the DOJ appears to have in their hands. One of them is an internal PokerStars doc acknowledging that the transaction descriptors associated with US customer-transactions "are often vague and rarely reflect the nature of the transaction in any way. In fact most descriptors strongly imply the transaction has nothing to do with PokerStars....it's all too easy for a player to say to their bank 'I've never made a purchase at bicyclebigshop.com'. As a result chargebacks (Not Auth & Stop Payments) are increasing which in turn jeopardizes the relationship with the processor and their banks." In short, the poker sites weren't completely oblivious as to what was going on. Whether that absolves them of any legal liability I don't know.
- Interestingly, in 2009, a lot of the PP arrangements collapsed and bank accounts were closed/seized by the US gov. After that happened, the DOJ indictment alleges that FTP and Stars embarked on a new strategy called "transparent processing": they set about to find a method of getting payments processed that did not involve any lying to banks. In a nutshell, it appears that they approached various US banks, and essentially told them straight-up what they wanted to do (and also probably argued to them that it was NOT illegal because online poker wasn't covered by the UIGEA since it wasn't, in a strict sense, unlawful internet gambling). It appears that the sites also "incentivized" these banks by paying them lucrative processing fees, and in at least one case, investing heavily in the financially troubled bank. The DOJ says that these were basically bribes. But it was an interesting strategy that may allow the sites to argue that (at least when it came to this "transparent processing"), they did not do anything fraudulent, since they told the truth at every stage, and if there was illegal activity, it was by the bank itself.
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Leftists are by definition joyless people, and anything that provides joy must either be heavily taxed to take most of the fun out of it, or destroyed outright as not beneficial to the state. These bastards willnever stop...the them or us situation approaches ever faster! Next, kicking in doors to punish people gong back to old fashioned poker nights with buddies can't be too far behind for this bunch, eh?
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That's the conservative law and order side of me talking.
The Libertarian side of me is all for breaking laws that are only there because others have paid protection money. People in the United States have no problem with gambling, morality wise. If we did we wouldn't have taxation of the stupid lotteries or bricks and morter casinos. Because, and only because the bribes paid by Indians and Big Casino to politicians, is the only reason internet poker is illegal.
Yes, this should be a major opportunity for any tea party candidate who can connect the dots, between bribe money and millions having their past time taken away.
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According to the indictment, these individuals obtained accounts at U.S. banks for the poker companies by lying about the nature of the transactions and covering up those lies by creating phone corporations and Web sites.
That was probably their fatal mistake. When you move offshore, you have to really move offshore. You can't try sneaking back into the US and that's what they did. Dumb Dumb!